DUST Search - [Request] Improvements for animations + weapons feel.

Templar Two wrote:

Hi.
Sorry if I say this CCP but you need to improve the animation for player's movement as well as improve the overall feel of weapons.
Let me give you a deeper look all these elements:

WALKING (First Person)

Walking doesn't look like walking at all.
Our upper body is nearly motionless while walking, each step barely effect our movements or the weapons' movement.
The result is that it looks like we are slowly sliding rather than walking.
Also it looks like we are a moving camera not a soldiers. (If you have played arcade FPS like Quake & Doom you know what I mean)

RUNNING

Running is better than walking but it still looks stiff as if you are running in place.
Also removing Wobbling HUD made running look worst because at least with the HUD moving it felt like somethig was happening to your body and you are not not simply a camera going forward.

HIP VIEW

Weapons are positioned too much on right; anatomically speaking it doesn't look like we are keeping them pressed on our shoulders, they don't look close to our body as they should. (Arma 3 does this perfectly)

AIM DOWN THE SIGHT VIEW

Basically in Dust 514 with many weapons you don't aim down the sight at all: in Dust 4514 the game literally changes camera.
Compare Dust 514 to any FPS out there and you will see the difference: in all FPS when you aim down the sight you can still see you weapon (sniper rifle are the only exception).
Why changing this this is important, well for these reasons:
-This is a FPS and this is one of the distinctive elements of any FPS even Sci-fi FPS like Halo or Crysis.
-Changing camera this way literally hides/obscures most of the the field of vision; aiming down the sight in FPS reduce it: gameplay wise this is very wrong.

Some of you pointed out that we use our helmets and so it should not be possible to aim down the sight traditionally but this is simply a poor excuse.
First: countless of FPS have character with helmets (Halo, Crysis, PalnetSide, Killzone) and all of them have weapon sight view...why? Because this is the FPS way.
Second: Sight are not scopes, you don't have to put you eye next to them.
Third: many weapons, the LAR for instance, clearly have sights and not scopes so it's physically impossible that they look a behave alike.
Fourth: if we use our helmet then better scopes & zooms shoud be upgrades for the helmet not the weapon.

THROW GRENADE

This must really be done better.
When you throw a grenade you throw it from the side of you body but here we throw in awkward way: grenades seems to be ejected from you hand rather then be thrown, and also you throw them as you would throw a Basketball.
Also we should hold the grenade closer to the body, we should see it in you palm.

WEAPONS WEIGHT

Weapons are totally weightless.
This enhances the sensation that you are using a camera and not a weapon.
Vehicles have wight and they feel much better, when i move the tank cannon it really feel heavy.

I am not doing this because I want to make you feel bad CCP, or because it pleasures me to find defect in Dust: I am doing this because I want to help.

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Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.06.27 14:23:00 - [1] - Quote Hi. Sorry if I say this CCP but you need to improve the animation for player's movement as well as improve the overall feel of weapons. Let me give you a deeper look all these elements: WALKING (First Person) Walking doesn't look like walking at all. Our upper body is nearly motionless while walking, each step barely effect our movements or the weapons' movement. The result is that it looks like we are slowly sliding rather than walking. Also it looks like we are a moving camera not a soldiers. (If you have played arcade FPS like Quake & Doom you know what I mean) RUNNING Running is better than walking but it still looks stiff as if you are running in place. Also removing Wobbling HUD made running look worst because at least with the HUD moving it felt like somethig was happening to your body and you are not not simply a camera going forward. HIP VIEW Weapons are positioned too much on right; anatomically speaking it doesn't look like we are keeping them pressed on our shoulders, they don't look close to our body as they should. (Arma 3 does this perfectly) AIM DOWN THE SIGHT VIEW Basically in Dust 514 with many weapons you don't aim down the sight at all: in Dust 4514 the game literally changes camera. Compare Dust 514 to any FPS out there and you will see the difference: in all FPS when you aim down the sight you can still see you weapon (sniper rifle are the only exception). Why changing this this is important, well for these reasons: -This is a FPS and this is one of the distinctive elements of any FPS even Sci-fi FPS like Halo or Crysis. -Changing camera this way literally hides/obscures most of the the field of vision; aiming down the sight in FPS reduce it: gameplay wise this is very wrong. Some of you pointed out that we use our helmets and so it should not be possible to aim down the sight traditionally but this is simply a poor excuse. First: countless of FPS have character with helmets (Halo, Crysis, PalnetSide, Killzone) and all of them have weapon sight view...why? Because this is the FPS way. Second: Sight are not scopes, you don't have to put you eye next to them. Third: many weapons, the LAR for instance, clearly have sights and not scopes so it's physically impossible that they look a behave alike. Fourth: if we use our helmet then better scopes & zooms shoud be upgrades for the helmet not the weapon. THROW GRENADE This must really be done better. When you throw a grenade you throw it from the side of you body but here we throw in awkward way: grenades seems to be ejected from you hand rather then be thrown, and also you throw them as you would throw a Basketball. Also we should hold the grenade closer to the body, we should see it in you palm. WEAPONS WEIGHT Weapons are totally weightless. This enhances the sensation that you are using a camera and not a weapon. Vehicles have wight and they feel much better, when i move the tank cannon it really feel heavy. I am not doing this because I want to make you feel bad CCP, or because it pleasures me to find defect in Dust: I am doing this because I want to help.
Ten Jamlamin Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.07.10 14:58:00 - [2] - Quote This is one of the best posts I've read on here and outlines every issues I've had with this beta so far. There's not even anything I can add to it, you've done an excellent job of outlining everything. It's just the general movement and animation of things. The gameplay is spot on, the market and fitting system is EVERYTHING I want. But the animation and movement is terrible, to the point that I just quit and pick up Battlefield 3 again. Just play Dust and then BF3 and you'll see how the movement of a character should be. As well as how weapons are handled and grenades are thrown.
Ten Jamlamin Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 8	Posted - 2012.07.10 15:00:00 - [3] - Quote Ten Jamlamin wrote: This is one of the best posts I've read on here and outlines every issues I've had with this beta so far. There's not even anything I can add to it, you've done an excellent job of outlining everything. It's just the general movement and animation of things. The gameplay is spot on, the market and fitting system is EVERYTHING I want. But the animation and movement is terrible, to the point that I just quit and pick up Battlefield 3 again. Just play Dust and then BF3 and you'll see how the movement of a character should be. As well as how weapons are handled and grenades are thrown. I realize this is a beta but this is what I'm hoping they're working on. I'm scared that if more beta testers come around they're going to see these problems and word will get around that Dust sucks. :/
Azura dark 31	Posted - 2012.07.10 15:23:00 - [4] - Quote * i agree mostly op, they could add some camera shake when sprinting, if i remember right when you run all that happens is your gun moves , the gun moves fine when running tho, even walking need a little shake every step you take, but small in comparison to running * im fine with how hip fire ls, imo hipfire still seems more acurate than when ads at medium distances. but that might be just me
Avinash Decker BetaMax. 25	Posted - 2012.07.11 02:35:00 - [5] - Quote Templar Two wrote: Some of you pointed out that we use our helmets and so it should not be possible to aim down the sight traditionally but this is simply a poor excuse. First: countless of FPS have character with helmets (Halo, Crysis, PalnetSide, Killzone) and all of them have weapon sight view...why? Because this is the FPS way. Second: Sight are not scopes, you don't have to put you eye next to them. Third: many weapons, the LAR for instance, clearly have sights and not scopes so it's physically impossible that they look a behave alike. Fourth: if we use our helmet then better scopes & zooms shoud be upgrades for the helmet not the weapon. Actually in halo all military personal have implants that give them hud and uplinks zoom to their weapons( that have scopes) . But I'm not quite sure if you are saying if those games have AIDS , so my apologies.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.07.11 03:09:00 - [6] - Quote Templar Two wrote: AIM DOWN THE SIGHT VIEW Basically in Dust 514 with many weapons you don't aim down the sight at all: in Dust 4514 the game literally changes camera. Compare Dust 514 to any FPS out there and you will see the difference: in all FPS when you aim down the sight you can still see you weapon (sniper rifle are the only exception). Why changing this this is important, well for these reasons: -This is a FPS and this is one of the distinctive elements of any FPS even Sci-fi FPS like Halo or Crysis. -Changing camera this way literally hides/obscures most of the the field of vision; aiming down the sight in FPS reduce it: gameplay wise this is very wrong. Some of you pointed out that we use our helmets and so it should not be possible to aim down the sight traditionally but this is simply a poor excuse. First: countless of FPS have character with helmets (Halo, Crysis, PalnetSide, Killzone) and all of them have weapon sight view...why? Because this is the FPS way. Second: Sight are not scopes, you don't have to put you eye next to them. Third: many weapons, the LAR for instance, clearly have sights and not scopes so it's physically impossible that they look a behave alike. Fourth: if we use our helmet then better scopes & zooms shoud be upgrades for the helmet not the weapon. Great feedback overall and I think that these areas of the game do need a lot of work. I would be happy to see some love given to everything you mention. About aiming, I could be wrong, but it seems that the game is changing camera because that is exactly what you are doing. In zooming in with some weapons your merc is literally changing view from the helmet camera to a gun mounted camera. I find it to be clunky. Even though it is the future and not unreasonable to have gun mounted cameras plugged into the suit. If this is what is happening it should be more self evident in game, you should be able to do all kinds of fun things with gun cameras like use them to look around corners, etc. Also it doesn't makes sense that the designers of military equipment in New Eden would make a gun mounted camera that puts you at a disadvantage by mucking up your entire field of vision when you use it. Though for sniper rifle it is fine because you want to focus in on your target as much as possible. Also the idea for helmet upgrades is kind of brilliant. It would be a nice addition to be able to have different helmet types with scope and zoom and sighting features. You should be able to use the helmet cameras to aim traditionally, if you want. *edit to add: with that flying camera feel, it does make sense that all the future tech gives the mercs a smoother view as they are moving, since we are really seeing everything through suit cameras, it seems. But again it is not self evident and the game doesnt let you know you might be getting an assist. Say, if militia suits started out really gritty with lots of bounce and shake and wobble, and better suits had a smoother ride, you would know, hey, it is the tech. Or CCP could decide to go true grit and bumpy ride across the board.
Hawk Von Draum Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 122	Posted - 2012.07.11 08:41:00 - [7] - Quote Templar Two wrote: Hi. Sorry if I say this CCP but you need to improve the animation for player's movement as well as improve the overall feel of weapons. Let me give you a deeper look all these elements: WALKING (First Person) Walking doesn't look like walking at all. Our upper body is nearly motionless while walking, each step barely effect our movements or the weapons' movement. The result is that it looks like we are slowly sliding rather than walking. Also it looks like we are a moving camera not a soldiers. (If you have played arcade FPS like Quake & Doom you know what I mean) RUNNING Running is better than walking but it still looks stiff as if you are running in place. Also removing Wobbling HUD made running look worst because at least with the HUD moving it felt like somethig was happening to your body and you are not not simply a camera going forward. HIP VIEW Weapons are positioned too much on right; anatomically speaking it doesn't look like we are keeping them pressed on our shoulders, they don't look close to our body as they should. (Arma 3 does this perfectly) AIM DOWN THE SIGHT VIEW Basically in Dust 514 with many weapons you don't aim down the sight at all: in Dust 4514 the game literally changes camera. Compare Dust 514 to any FPS out there and you will see the difference: in all FPS when you aim down the sight you can still see you weapon (sniper rifle are the only exception). Why changing this this is important, well for these reasons: -This is a FPS and this is one of the distinctive elements of any FPS even Sci-fi FPS like Halo or Crysis. -Changing camera this way literally hides/obscures most of the the field of vision; aiming down the sight in FPS reduce it: gameplay wise this is very wrong. Some of you pointed out that we use our helmets and so it should not be possible to aim down the sight traditionally but this is simply a poor excuse. First: countless of FPS have character with helmets (Halo, Crysis, PalnetSide, Killzone) and all of them have weapon sight view...why? Because this is the FPS way. Second: Sight are not scopes, you don't have to put you eye next to them. Third: many weapons, the LAR for instance, clearly have sights and not scopes so it's physically impossible that they look a behave alike. Fourth: if we use our helmet then better scopes & zooms shoud be upgrades for the helmet not the weapon. THROW GRENADE This must really be done better. When you throw a grenade you throw it from the side of you body but here we throw in awkward way: grenades seems to be ejected from you hand rather then be thrown, and also you throw them as you would throw a Basketball. Also we should hold the grenade closer to the body, we should see it in you palm. WEAPONS WEIGHT Weapons are totally weightless. This enhances the sensation that you are using a camera and not a weapon. Vehicles have wight and they feel much better, when i move the tank cannon it really feel heavy. I am not doing this because I want to make you feel bad CCP, or because it pleasures me to find defect in Dust: I am doing this because I want to help. Personally I disagree with almost every point you've made, but thank you for posting your opinion in a detailed and constructive way +1
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2012.07.11 10:23:00 - [8] - Quote @templar agree with everything. Especially ADS. It makes no sense to me that when I aim down the sight on an AR say my whole field of vision is narrowed. I presume the idea was to make it feel more immersive for the gamer. However, on maps that are open (not corridors) and medium to large size you want to feel the size of the 'battlefield'. the mmo of it. If that makes sense. Or maybe its just that the sight mask is so big. but maybe that's a whole other conversation about weapon customisarion - ability to change sights etc. hip fire is way to accurate and ADS way off, but presuming that is because hit detection is bugged and aim assist too strong. I am hoping this will be fixed as it will dramatically improve the FPS feel that Dust desperately needs. At the moment you might as well run around hip firing.
Templar Two Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:01:00 - [9] - Quote Hawk Von Draum wrote: Personally I disagree with almost every point you've made, but thank you for posting your opinion in a detailed and constructive way +1 You should say yours then. P.S. Hip fire is this accurate thanks to aim assist.
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2012.07.11 11:14:00 - [10] - Quote The ADS actually makes sense. You forget that these helmets have no eye holes and you merely change camera to that of the gun, or we are simply changing zoom in the helmet. There are other games that do this so Dust isn't the only one. However if the ADS sight LOOKED more high-tec I would be happy, like it shows magnification and other data around the zoom about several things (IF you understand what I mean XD ). If you think about it, in future warfare we will in reality no longer need to look down sights. However everything else I agree with, I would just add having more haptic feedback. BF3 does this very cleverly with close by explosions, landing from jumps, getting hit and firing your weapon etc.

Mosley Harmless Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2012.09.23 13:56:00 - [11] - Quote +1 for OP. I hope CCP takes a look at this.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.09.23 14:05:00 - [12] - Quote Nice list T Two have a like
Velvet Overkill 104	Posted - 2012.09.23 17:29:00 - [13] - Quote I mostly agree with this. The animations needs work and guns feel weightless. Arma 3, Battlefield 3, and Killzone 3 is are perfect examples of games that have great placement and animations. Killzone 3's gunplay is spectacular, the guns have weight and actually look like they firing with lots of force; the animation for the gun rattling is great.
WHz DS9899 Doomheim 136	Posted - 2012.10.19 20:33:00 - [14] - Quote The only thing you forgot: AR's need recoil


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