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Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
809
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Posted - 2016.04.08 07:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:@Alena Asakura. Caldari don't fight up close in space? Guess my HAM Cerberus, Tengu, and Drake are doing it wrong despite their success...same goes for my rocket frigs, torpedo Raven...and that's before we go mentioning that rails and blasters utilize the same underlying technology, and are used interchangeably in all contexts by both Caldari and Gallente, so my typical Naga, Rokh, and Merlin fits are disqualified because blasters are too close range, and obviously too Gallentean.
Yes, Caldari generally avoid close combat, that doesn't mean they don't pack or create the tools to do so. The Nova Knives are very clearly visually Caldari, their only (ISK) producer is a Caldari corporation (note, Ishukone does manufacture non-Caldari equipment as well, but that is because the Ishukone Watch doesn't have as much of a stigma within its ranks on using non-Caldari engineered tech, so they use the best tool for the job see the 'Dren' equipment line). Let us combine that fact with the nova knives having properties of hybrid weaponry (projecting a contained, superheated plasma edge) which narrows down their architect to being either Gallente or Caldari (The contained part of the plasma edge disqualifies Projectile Phased Plasma ammo)...all that's before the Word of God knowledge thanks to the fanfest slide with all the proposed racial knife types.
lol Yes, of course you can get up close in space, but the Caldari way is kiting. I have all three of the ships you named, and the HAM Cerb is my favourite. Most people use HMs on their Cerbs so they can kite at more distance, but I find that the HAMs just rip into the enemy at a blinding rate, and with high enough skills, you can still get them out to a reasonable distance. I'll actually agree that you're wrong with the use of blasters. I know it was stated tongue in cheek, but in my experience, they should only be used on a very fast ship, like an interceptor, because you need to get in so close to use them. The ships you named are all Caldari, and theoretically not designed for Gallentean tactics, because shields and little armour. That doesn't mean you can't do it with a really fast repping shield tank, though. And there is a really interesting Scorpion armour fit, that basicly allows all the medium slots to be used for ewar mods. So there's always exceptions to the "rules"... ;) You can have your Nova Knives. I'm not stopping you using them. But just because Ishukone makes them doesn't make them Caldari tech to my mind. I'm going to fight the Caldari way, and that means minimal to no extreme close range. If that doesn't fit this game, tough. I like it less and less every day. :) CCP have botched just about everything they have put their hands on with this game from what I can see. I'm not surprised they would also have a go at severely stuffing up the lore aspect of it as well. Most of my point on blasters is that , lore-wise, and even bonus wise, they are interchangeable in space with railguns on all ships...granted, Caldari's Range bonus doesn't amplify them as well as Gallente's tracking bonus, but they aren't automatically bad...you'd be surprised at just how fast you can get a Caldari Ship to go...but I will concede that Caldari Ships with blasters are only really good as reinforcement ships where you can call in people from off-grid to warp into their optimal, and even then there are better options out there, just they aren't always available...when under siege in Anoikis, you've got to use what you have on-hand, so you learn to appreciate every little bit you can get from bonuses. Anyway, I will argue the point that the Nova Knives are not Mattari Engineering lore-wise...they seem to be caldari based on the technological description as well as their visual design. Another point (beyond the contained plasma blade) is the use of Graviton Technology in their design, a technology that is exclusively used in Caldari Technology.
Most of the bonuses for railguns are actually for hybrids, not specificly railguns, so blasters get these bonuses too. Most of the reason they're not used instead of railguns is that they require such close range.
No I would not be surprised how fast you can get a Caldari ship to go - I have a Crow that does easily 4000m/s, and that's just with the usual microwarp drive, nothing special, although it is T2. I even put a microwarp drive on a Cerb once, which I intended to use for precisely the sort of close range encounters you're referring to. I never actually used it, though...
I won't bother arguing any further the Nova Knife thing. The plasma blade thing is actually more a Gallente feature than a Caldari one, but I'll concede that since Caldari were once part of the Gallente Federation, that could possibly put some credence to it.
My basic point is that CCP can and does invent whatever lore it likes to support some of the things it does, and Nova Knives to me are a case in point. It just sounds like an excuse to give Caldari some sort of close range weapon that magically fits into the lore they wrote to make it do so... :) |
Alena Asakura
Caldari Logistics Reserve
809
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 07:45:00 -
[92] - Quote
Forever ETC wrote:True Adamance wrote:Forever ETC wrote:True Adamance wrote:https://imgur.com/CSoA44A
This is the picture you mean ETC.
The point I've been trying to make from the start is that the Nova Knives we have currently are Caldari in design. Thusly they count towards the sum total number of Caldari items present in Dust 514.
However that being said the concept of a melee weapon for a front line soldier would not be eschewed or rejected out of hand even by the Caldari or Amarr who tend to employ technologies that are more effective at range. A combat knife would be a standard part of any soldier's kit.
Honestly I am not even sure why there were made their own weapons when they used to be a part of the melee animation.
However my point was that Knives we have now are those produced by the Ishukone Megacorporation, who yes do produce foreign technologies, however have opted to design the Nova Knives in traditional Caldari fashion, using technologies typically seen in Caldari/Gallente sectors, using Ishukone's corporate colours.
In the end Nova Knives are like Repair Tools (Remote Reppers). The concept and need for them is universal. No one Empire is solely responsible for developing them and employing them.
For f*ck sakes man... Those red arrows, just lol... made my day. Looking at the images now, the minmatar one looks a bit underwhelming out of the four. I'm not putting much effort into a Paint edit for an argument I know I am right about. You don't need to, most of it comes down to common sense anyways. But I just loved seeing how that was done, kinda like "look here, see Caldari".
I'm not disputing that someone wrote the lore that says Nova Knives are Caldari. I'm saying it's irrelevant and incorrect to write that lore in the first place because Caldari don't use close range fighting techniques.
OK, so yes, some soldiers will have knives as part of their kit. But to say that every race has its own knive, that they ALL have knives, is ridiculous from the start. This is CCP basicly giving everyone the same thing, which is something I disagree with in EvE as well as in Dust. When one race invents a technology, they're going to excel at it at first and may be for a time the only ones with that technology. Over time of course, other races may choose to copy, and some may even improve on it, but to say everyone has a knife, that's just not reasonable.
But CCP does a lot of things that are not reasonable. |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Dead Man's Game
Preatoriani
745
|
Posted - 2016.04.09 20:17:00 -
[93] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Forever ETC wrote:True Adamance wrote:Forever ETC wrote:True Adamance wrote:https://imgur.com/CSoA44A
This is the picture you mean ETC.
The point I've been trying to make from the start is that the Nova Knives we have currently are Caldari in design. Thusly they count towards the sum total number of Caldari items present in Dust 514.
However that being said the concept of a melee weapon for a front line soldier would not be eschewed or rejected out of hand even by the Caldari or Amarr who tend to employ technologies that are more effective at range. A combat knife would be a standard part of any soldier's kit.
Honestly I am not even sure why there were made their own weapons when they used to be a part of the melee animation.
However my point was that Knives we have now are those produced by the Ishukone Megacorporation, who yes do produce foreign technologies, however have opted to design the Nova Knives in traditional Caldari fashion, using technologies typically seen in Caldari/Gallente sectors, using Ishukone's corporate colours.
In the end Nova Knives are like Repair Tools (Remote Reppers). The concept and need for them is universal. No one Empire is solely responsible for developing them and employing them.
For f*ck sakes man... Those red arrows, just lol... made my day. Looking at the images now, the minmatar one looks a bit underwhelming out of the four. I'm not putting much effort into a Paint edit for an argument I know I am right about. You don't need to, most of it comes down to common sense anyways. But I just loved seeing how that was done, kinda like "look here, see Caldari". I'm not disputing that someone wrote the lore that says Nova Knives are Caldari. I'm saying it's irrelevant and incorrect to write that lore in the first place because Caldari don't use close range fighting techniques. OK, so yes, some soldiers will have knives as part of their kit. But to say that every race has its own knive, that they ALL have knives, is ridiculous from the start. This is CCP basicly giving everyone the same thing, which is something I disagree with in EvE as well as in Dust. When one race invents a technology, they're going to excel at it at first and may be for a time the only ones with that technology. Over time of course, other races may choose to copy, and some may even improve on it, but to say everyone has a knife, that's just not reasonable. But CCP does a lot of things that are not reasonable.
Bassically This?
It isn't entirely unreasonable for everyone to have their own version of a knife that can cut through dropsuits (if anyone has one in the first place), but until it is retconned, lore wise, The Caldari invented the technology, even if it is most commonly used by the Mattari right now
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
#PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
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Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
818
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Posted - 2016.04.13 14:30:00 -
[94] - Quote
Well, it's clear to me that Caldari defences are simply not up to CQC. That's not to say that there aren't people who can fight well enough to make do, but that's the person doing the fighting, not the suit. Assault and scrambler rifles cut straight through the shields, and the best armour I can get on a CalAss suit is around 400HP, using three complex reactives. Yes, I can use Ferroscale which needs exactly the same CPU and PG as the relevant reactive, but then I don't have the regen. The Ferroscale has the benefit of no speed penalty.
I really just don't believe that Caldari suits are fundamentally any good for CQC. A really good individual player may be able to make it work, but everything equal, I believe that the Caldari suits are the worst of all for close range. Certainly, a full shield tank is useless for CQC, yes it's fast and nimble, but it's paper thin. I'm just going to have to abandon any ideas I had of trying to keep to the Caldari way, and stick armour on my suits.... |
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