DUST Search - impose fines for leaving battle

All Channels

General Discussions

impose fines for leaving battle

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 242	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:00:00 - [1] - Quote This is getting ridiculous. You start a battle with both sides having about equal number of players then within 2 minutes half of them leave. For the team where people leave its awful because it is damn near impossible to win and if you put an effort you will get your rear end handed to you. If you are the team with the most player then the battle gets boring. I suggest imposing a fine for leaving battle early. 300,000 isk sounds about right to me. The idea here is that you are under contract and violating that contract just like in real life means some sort of penalty. Ofcourse I already know most of the arguments against this idea. for example: #1 what if one of the squad members doesn't deploy as it often happens? A: give a 1 minute limit. If you leave withing the first minute of the match then there are no penalties. a second after that will cost you 300,000 isk. #2 What if I get kicked out of battle? A: This one is a valid concerned as internet connections are unreliable. but, how many times are you going to get disconnected during the day. I think loosing 300,000 isk once a day or maybe twice a day for long playing binch is not that bad. I definitely loose more than that puting up a good fight because the other scrub berries leave. Its a small sacrifice. #3 What if I'm playing and something come up that needs me to leave the game early. A: It's a game, not real life. Just like when your clone gets killed nobody really dies loosing 300,000 isk is not going to deplete your real life bank account. #4 300,000 isk seems too much. A: Its about what you would make in about 2 battles depending on your performance. The number has to be high enough to make people think twice before leaving but, low enough that it doesn't punish you for legitimate reason for abandoning battle.
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:05:00 - [2] - Quote People rolling in ISK wouldn't have to give two flying fucks then? Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:08:00 - [3] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: People rolling in ISK wouldn't have to give two flying fucks then? Hell to the **** naw. Top lel
Jadek Menaheim Incorruptibles 8	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:10:00 - [4] - Quote ^ Wait, what happened to the ******* language filter on the forums? " The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren. " Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
Apoleon II Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2016.01.06 11:25:00 - [5] - Quote I only leave because of the psn errors, :( Sorry for my bad english :$
sizwe sizzle Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 67	Posted - 2016.01.06 13:43:00 - [6] - Quote Luna McDuffing wrote: This is getting ridiculous. You start a battle with both sides having about equal number of players then within 2 minutes half of them leave. For the team where people leave its awful because it is damn near impossible to win and if you put an effort you will get your rear end handed to you. If you are the team with the most player then the battle gets boring. I suggest imposing a fine for leaving battle early. 300,000 isk sounds about right to me. The idea here is that you are under contract and violating that contract just like in real life means some sort of penalty. Ofcourse I already know most of the arguments against this idea. for example: #1 what if one of the squad members doesn't deploy as it often happens? A: give a 1 minute limit. If you leave withing the first minute of the match then there are no penalties. a second after that will cost you 300,000 isk. #2 What if I get kicked out of battle? A: This one is a valid concerned as internet connections are unreliable. but, how many times are you going to get disconnected during the day. I think loosing 300,000 isk once a day or maybe twice a day for long playing binch is not that bad. I definitely loose more than that puting up a good fight because the other scrub berries leave. Its a small sacrifice. #3 What if I'm playing and something come up that needs me to leave the game early. A: It's a game, not real life. Just like when your clone gets killed nobody really dies loosing 300,000 isk is not going to deplete your real life bank account. #4 300,000 isk seems too much. A: Its about what you would make in about 2 battles depending on your performance. The number has to be high enough to make people think twice before leaving but, low enough that it doesn't punish you for legitimate reason for abandoning battle. This will affect people who are broke
Vlad Rostok 340	Posted - 2016.01.06 13:59:00 - [7] - Quote Most people play a game for fun. If they perceive that a match won't be fun (i.e. They will be stomped), then they won't play (they leave battle). Impose a fine as suggested and, given the model of this particular game, many may stop playing altogether. Is an even smaller playerbase what you seek? Uneven matches are frustrating but fines for leaving battle won't fix that. Consider basic human nature; therein lies the key to success of incentives or disincentives to remain in battle.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:07:00 - [8] - Quote I kind of like the idea of the fine on grounds of violating a contract. So long as that isk doesn't go poof and is paid out to the teammates that are left behind, as well as any isk earned during the battle by the deserter. It would actually add incentive to stay in the match as well as to not leave it. "Your loyalty will be rewarded." Becomes even truer. It would also become a gamble regarding DCs, power outages, etc. Sucks when it happens to you, but when you play a full match all the way to the end the payout will be huge. (-áGëû -£-û-áGëû)=ƒæî GåÉ=¥É+=¥æÄ=¥æö =¥æâ=¥æƒ=¥æÆ=¥æú=¥æÆ=¥æ¢=¥æí=¥æû=¥æ£=¥æ¢ Æ
Union118 Kinsho Swords Caldari State 1	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:12:00 - [9] - Quote Last night we had 8 v 11 and we still won. Sometimes people back out cuz someone didnt make it into battle. So you are gunna punish thoes who back out to pick up a team member? Backing out of a stomp is encouraged for obvious reasons and if more than half the team leaves then just back out. You are probably not going to back out of every game but most of the battles that people backout from these days are fun battles. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 410	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:23:00 - [10] - Quote What do you do if someone simply doesn't have 300K? Force them to negative? Great way to treat a noob when he gets enough of stomping. And adding a fine will just cause people to sit in the MCC when they've had enough. Or find another way around it. It won't make people fight, there's no incentive to fight against all odds. "I have never gotten a kill assist by fluxing a wall" - Baal Omniscient

Fiono MercenariesOfthePhoenix 0	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:46:00 - [11] - Quote Stop spamming proto dropships, tanks and officer gear in easy mode pubs vs randoms if you dont like players leaving battle. Try qsyncing battles vs other proto players. Or try fw caldari needs some help
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:06:00 - [12] - Quote You already forfeit your payout and sp when you leave the match. Unless its your first battle of the day for the daily key which you get regardless unless your team loses. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 773	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:16:00 - [13] - Quote I (many otheres, I suspect) fully agree with you, Luna. NOT about the "darn-near impossible to win when so many players have left your team" part (...because half of the time at least 30% of the players don't know enough yet to help you win---or never intended to "help fellow players" at all in their matches....so it's no advantage if that 30% leaves or stays anyway, LOL). But I do agree with a "consequence" being designed for those who Leave-Battle. And it should be a Payout-v-Action equation similar to all the RISK-v-Reward concepts that an Eve game is based on. You want to kill with the bigger gun---you must take the risk of losing more from your wallet if you get killed carrying it. You want to mine the more lucrative Ore---you're going to have to take you ship out to the most dangerous 0.0 areas of space to mine it. You want to Leave-Battle? When Aura does tell you "you are contractually obligated to enter the Burnzone"? Everyone should be allowed to Leave-Battle two times a day--no questions asked, no penalty. But on your THIRD Leave-Battle of the day, you should pay a Contract-Tax. The tax can be 10,000 point deduction in your "Loyalty Points" (which over time will cause you to drop in Rank that controls your trading/bonus %'s). The Tax can be a deduction in LP in the Loyalty Store (perhaps only the LP for your default Race gets reduced---the other 3 race-LP stay the same). The Tax can be some kind of Player-Rating scheme (a DED-standing that appears in you Character Info screen for others to see, and rates you as 'High-Loyatly'---'Steady-Contract'---'Low-Contract'---"Criminal-Flag', depending on how many Leaves per week you perform. OR, the Tax can be ALL of these things simultaneously, all occurring in the background, so that you are not readlily aware of the damage you are doing to yourself until you decide to look and YIKES, you see what a mess you've made of your game standing. Also note, all four suggestions are MODERATE enough so that a player has some wiggle room to count how much great standing she's got, and she can still CHOOSE to Leave-Battle X-number of times a week at the cost of X-amount of Tax against her. In New Eden, you should still have the freedom to abandon your team and Leave.... just so long as you Pay something for the freedom, like you pay for everything else in this galaxy (err, star cluster, or whatever it is) Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Fiono 0	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:29:00 - [14] - Quote If you stop using proto dropships, tanks and officer/proto suits in pubs vs randoms we will stop leaving matches. I don't think ccp will make proto stompping us any easier than it already is
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.06 17:09:00 - [15] - Quote Vlad Rostok wrote: Most people play a game for fun. If they perceive that a match won't be fun (i.e. They will be stomped), then they won't play (they leave battle). Impose a fine as suggested and, given the model of this particular game, many may stop playing altogether. Is an even smaller playerbase what you seek? ^ I have made this point every time someone who doesn't understand incentives comes in with the same penalty suggestion. It won't work. It might make you briefly feel better because you are seeking some sort of justice or vengeance, but it doesn't fix a broken game, and you will be the same person to complain about how poor games are and nobody plays while it was your poor suggestion that hastened the end in the first place. The games aren't fun, and no amount of of penalty or reward for staying will make people stay if they aren't enjoying themselves. You have to understand why people are leaving and fix those problems directly if you want to improve the long term health of the game. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
7th Son 7 Hakuna Matatah Inc 1	Posted - 2016.01.06 17:56:00 - [16] - Quote What a joke, people leaving and not being put into battles when they are needed has been a problem for months. Frankly i'm tired of people trying to cover up CCP's incompinence when it comes to developing a game with good performance. A year ago taking money from a player for leaving battle would'nt have even been a topic of conversation, because they were being replaced in battle, gg CCP. Add to the fact that CCP took developers from Dust to go work on one of several projects that will be coming out, it looks bleak imo. I think also if you look at the state of the game and the lack of attention it's getting, well... Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
Lightning35 Delta514 Federation Marines 62 3	Posted - 2016.01.06 18:28:00 - [17] - Quote Dust player will go broke CEO of Federation Marines 62 Bravo Company!
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 509	Posted - 2016.01.06 18:38:00 - [18] - Quote Fiono wrote: If you stop using proto dropships, tanks and officer/proto suits in pubs vs randoms we will stop leaving matches. I don't think ccp will make proto stompping us any easier than it already is There's no such thing as a proto dropship...js D4GG3R is my mom. I have reason to suspect Archduke is a Sassy Pirate.
Moorian Flav 351	Posted - 2016.01.06 18:43:00 - [19] - Quote Fines don't mean much to those that been around a while. I would think an automatic loss should be counted. Afterall, most seem to care more about their stats than their ISK (which is laughable but true). I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
I Blame Society Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2016.01.06 18:57:00 - [20] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: ^ Wait, what happened to the ******* language filter on the forums? " The field in which I grow my fucks. Lay thine eyes upon it and thou shalt see that it is barren. " Basically, if you add letters to the regular fck, a, sht, and f*cking, you can do things such as fucks, shitholes, assholians and fuckingers. You shall not defeat me in combat, for I am the one who does not bleed... Face me, and you will lose yours.

Thor Odinson42 Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2016.01.06 21:10:00 - [21] - Quote I'd pay a 1,000,000 ISK fine if it meant I could leave a terrible match. But if it ever got to a point that I was poor because I didn't want to be bored, I'd just quit playing.
Thor Odinson42 Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2016.01.06 21:19:00 - [22] - Quote Arirana wrote: I kind of like the idea of the fine on grounds of violating a contract. So long as that isk doesn't go poof and is paid out to the teammates that are left behind, as well as any isk earned during the battle by the deserter. It would actually add incentive to stay in the match as well as to not leave it. "Your loyalty will be rewarded." Becomes even truer. It would also become a gamble regarding DCs, power outages, etc. Sucks when it happens to you, but when you play a full match all the way to the end the payout will be huge. There is the biggest issue. The payouts are obviously not big enough to make the effort worth it for some. A big fine for leaving and really big reward for staying and participating are necessary. Then tweak the dials until you find the happy medium. Risk/reward via asset loss is one of the things that sets Dust apart, but they have seemingly ignored tweaking those dials as long as I can remember. I beat the "raise the payouts" drum from a soapbox at least twice a month for a few years. They should look at PC as a competition mode and not necessarily the most rewarding mode in regards to difficulty level. It is such a small percentage of players that have participated in PC at any stage of Dust. People have always cried that public contracts should be casual, but they've devolved into garbage. All modes became so garbage that everybody just plays Domination, that way they don't have to go very far or put in much effort.
Vicious Minotaur 3	Posted - 2016.01.06 21:55:00 - [23] - Quote People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. Minotaur Necrophiliac I'll keep your corpse company! ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2016.01.06 22:19:00 - [24] - Quote GÇªand watch people say "screw it" and stop playing the game. All that is needed is match slots like World of Tanks does with tanks. You can leave a match, but that tank remains unavailable until that match is over. You have to buy and use another tank if you want to play another match. CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 241	Posted - 2016.01.06 22:50:00 - [25] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Arirana wrote: I kind of like the idea of the fine on grounds of violating a contract. So long as that isk doesn't go poof and is paid out to the teammates that are left behind, as well as any isk earned during the battle by the deserter. It would actually add incentive to stay in the match as well as to not leave it. "Your loyalty will be rewarded." Becomes even truer. It would also become a gamble regarding DCs, power outages, etc. Sucks when it happens to you, but when you play a full match all the way to the end the payout will be huge. There is the biggest issue. The payouts are obviously not big enough to make the effort worth it for some. A big fine for leaving and really big reward for staying and participating are necessary. Then tweak the dials until you find the happy medium. Risk/reward via asset loss is one of the things that sets Dust apart, but they have seemingly ignored tweaking those dials as long as I can remember. I beat the "raise the payouts" drum from a soapbox at least twice a month for a few years. They should look at PC as a competition mode and not necessarily the most rewarding mode in regards to difficulty level. It is such a small percentage of players that have participated in PC at any stage of Dust. People have always cried that public contracts should be casual, but they've devolved into garbage. All modes became so garbage that everybody just plays Domination, that way they don't have to go very far or put in much effort. Bump.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 241	Posted - 2016.01.06 22:53:00 - [26] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. People in RL have to pay a penalty for violating the terms of a contract, why not in Dust? The only issue I see with this is if you are DC'd or have a fatal error and have to quit the game. Noone should be penalised for having to quit the game, unless there's a way to rejoin the game you were in. But generally, I like the idea of people having to pay penalties or getting the rewards from other paying penalties. This would vastly improve the game.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.06 23:01:00 - [27] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. People in RL have to pay a penalty for violating the terms of a contract, why not in Dust? The only issue I see with this is if you are DC'd or have a fatal error and have to quit the game. Noone should be penalised for having to quit the game, unless there's a way to rejoin the game you were in. But generally, I like the idea of people having to pay penalties or getting the rewards from other paying penalties. This would vastly improve the game. How about we penalize the people who proto stomp? How about we penalize people that like to stomp on new players? No? Because it is an equally stupid idea. RL penalties carry more weight because they are real. This is a f*cking game. Its not real. Its money isn't real. The only thing real about it is the fun or frustration people have playing it, and the time they spend playing it. If you impose a ridiculous penalty, people will NOT STICK AROUND AND PLAY!!! Get it through your thick skulls. They are leaving because they are not having fun (or having technical problems), both of which have more REAL meaning than the penalties you want to create. Penalties will be inneffective for anything other than driving people away from the game. Rewards for staying and playing despite being on a losing team, and despite entering the battle partway through are your best and most effective options. And even that is not a silver bullet. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 241	Posted - 2016.01.06 23:15:00 - [28] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. People in RL have to pay a penalty for violating the terms of a contract, why not in Dust? The only issue I see with this is if you are DC'd or have a fatal error and have to quit the game. Noone should be penalised for having to quit the game, unless there's a way to rejoin the game you were in. But generally, I like the idea of people having to pay penalties or getting the rewards from other paying penalties. This would vastly improve the game. How about we penalize the people who proto stomp? How about we penalize people that like to stomp on new players? No? Because it is an equally stupid idea. RL penalties carry more weight because they are real. This is a f*cking game. Its not real. Its money isn't real. The only thing real about it is the fun or frustration people have playing it, and the time they spend playing it. If you impose a ridiculous penalty, people will NOT STICK AROUND AND PLAY!!! Get it through your thick skulls. They are leaving because they are not having fun (or having technical problems), both of which have more REAL meaning than the penalties you want to create. Penalties will be inneffective for anything other than driving people away from the game. Rewards for staying and playing despite being on a losing team, and despite entering the battle partway through are your best and most effective options. And even that is not a silver bullet. But, but, but.... To some people it's NOT just a game! :) But I do agree, rewards for staying and playing anyway ARE better than penalties for leaving.
Fiono 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 05:44:00 - [29] - Quote Ccp is not going to make proto stomps any easier for you. Its funny how the real reasons for tbe end of this game and empty matches are ignorded. Most of us know what the playerbase turned this game into.But we dont care anymore, were leaving battle. We'll burn tbis game down faster than pc. Have some dignity. Stop crying
Minty Essence DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:02:00 - [30] - Quote **** no - I have connection issues and a dodgy PS3 so end up unintentionally leaving battles. If that were the case the game would be completely unplayable for me.

DeadlyAztec11 9	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:24:00 - [31] - Quote fucks Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Happy Violentime 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:31:00 - [32] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. Ya know, the people I see leaving battle the most are usually squads of people who have been playing for 1-2 years - mainly polish - they prefer stomping noobs who can't fight back.
The Noob Destroyer 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:32:00 - [33] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: fucks Always the naughty one PAS People Against Signatures.
I Blame Society Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 56	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:41:00 - [34] - Quote Hahaha my post was deleted because the forum's language filter failed to work. You shall not defeat me in combat, for I am the one who does not bleed... Face me, and you will lose yours.
DeadlyAztec11 9	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:49:00 - [35] - Quote The Noob Destroyer wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: fucks Always the naughty one General John Ripper, the type of merc to be naughty. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 6	Posted - 2016.01.07 08:51:00 - [36] - Quote sizwe sizzle wrote: Luna McDuffing wrote: This is getting ridiculous. You start a battle with both sides having about equal number of players then within 2 minutes half of them leave. For the team where people leave its awful because it is damn near impossible to win and if you put an effort you will get your rear end handed to you. If you are the team with the most player then the battle gets boring. I suggest imposing a fine for leaving battle early. 300,000 isk sounds about right to me. The idea here is that you are under contract and violating that contract just like in real life means some sort of penalty. Ofcourse I already know most of the arguments against this idea. for example: #1 what if one of the squad members doesn't deploy as it often happens? A: give a 1 minute limit. If you leave withing the first minute of the match then there are no penalties. a second after that will cost you 300,000 isk. #2 What if I get kicked out of battle? A: This one is a valid concerned as internet connections are unreliable. but, how many times are you going to get disconnected during the day. I think loosing 300,000 isk once a day or maybe twice a day for long playing binch is not that bad. I definitely loose more than that puting up a good fight because the other scrub berries leave. Its a small sacrifice. #3 What if I'm playing and something come up that needs me to leave the game early. A: It's a game, not real life. Just like when your clone gets killed nobody really dies loosing 300,000 isk is not going to deplete your real life bank account. #4 300,000 isk seems too much. A: Its about what you would make in about 2 battles depending on your performance. The number has to be high enough to make people think twice before leaving but, low enough that it doesn't punish you for legitimate reason for abandoning battle. This will affect people who are broke Well maybe if they didn't give up all the time and learned how to fight they wouldn't be broke. This is a positive and endearing message brought to you by Himi.
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:20:00 - [37] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. People in RL have to pay a penalty for violating the terms of a contract, why not in Dust? The only issue I see with this is if you are DC'd or have a fatal error and have to quit the game. Noone should be penalised for having to quit the game, unless there's a way to rejoin the game you were in. But generally, I like the idea of people having to pay penalties or getting the rewards from other paying penalties. This would vastly improve the game. How about we penalize the people who proto stomp? How about we penalize people that like to stomp on new players? No? Because it is an equally stupid idea. RL penalties carry more weight because they are real. This is a f*cking game. Its not real. Its money isn't real. The only thing real about it is the fun or frustration people have playing it, and the time they spend playing it. If you impose a ridiculous penalty, people will NOT STICK AROUND AND PLAY!!! Get it through your thick skulls. They are leaving because they are not having fun (or having technical problems), both of which have more REAL meaning than the penalties you want to create. Penalties will be inneffective for anything other than driving people away from the game. Rewards for staying and playing despite being on a losing team, and despite entering the battle partway through are your best and most effective options. And even that is not a silver bullet. Amen brutha! CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:22:00 - [38] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: sizwe sizzle wrote: Luna McDuffing wrote: This is getting ridiculous. You start a battle with both sides having about equal number of players then within 2 minutes half of them leave. For the team where people leave its awful because it is damn near impossible to win and if you put an effort you will get your rear end handed to you. If you are the team with the most player then the battle gets boring. I suggest imposing a fine for leaving battle early. 300,000 isk sounds about right to me. The idea here is that you are under contract and violating that contract just like in real life means some sort of penalty. Ofcourse I already know most of the arguments against this idea. for example: #1 what if one of the squad members doesn't deploy as it often happens? A: give a 1 minute limit. If you leave withing the first minute of the match then there are no penalties. a second after that will cost you 300,000 isk. #2 What if I get kicked out of battle? A: This one is a valid concerned as internet connections are unreliable. but, how many times are you going to get disconnected during the day. I think loosing 300,000 isk once a day or maybe twice a day for long playing binch is not that bad. I definitely loose more than that puting up a good fight because the other scrub berries leave. Its a small sacrifice. #3 What if I'm playing and something come up that needs me to leave the game early. A: It's a game, not real life. Just like when your clone gets killed nobody really dies loosing 300,000 isk is not going to deplete your real life bank account. #4 300,000 isk seems too much. A: Its about what you would make in about 2 battles depending on your performance. The number has to be high enough to make people think twice before leaving but, low enough that it doesn't punish you for legitimate reason for abandoning battle. This will affect people who are broke Well maybe if they didn't give up all the time and learned how to fight they wouldn't be broke. Lol, hear at folks? This game is important enough that you shouldn't just give up and get back to reality. You MUST get better and prove your worth with a pixelated virtual gun. CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:25:00 - [39] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. People in RL have to pay a penalty for violating the terms of a contract, why not in Dust? The only issue I see with this is if you are DC'd or have a fatal error and have to quit the game. Noone should be penalised for having to quit the game, unless there's a way to rejoin the game you were in. But generally, I like the idea of people having to pay penalties or getting the rewards from other paying penalties. This would vastly improve the game. This is how I will pay a penalty for DUST: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr0Em_prziY And this is where CCP is headed if they continue with bullheaded ideas like that: http://trendsafari.com/visual-culture/homeless-programmer/ CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 13	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:40:00 - [40] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Penalties will be ineffective for anything other than driving people away from the game. Rewards for staying and playing despite being on a losing team, and despite entering the battle partway through are your best and most effective options.. I'm going to say I agree with you for the most part. Rewarding players for staying in battle would do more good, yes, but there still needs to be a penalty for leaving battles repeatedly. Perhaps you get X "freebies" each day that you are not penalized for. This could help account for issues beyond the player's control like power or PSN outages. Beyond that you have some kind of penalty; temporary ISK reduction from public contracts or something similar. Usually solutions to problems like this are one part carrot and one part stick, is all I'm saying. Become the phoenix, rise again

danthrax martin LAST FRONTIER FIGHTERS 729	Posted - 2016.01.07 16:27:00 - [41] - Quote It feels like this thread is for the "the entitled" The entitled need to FOAD Looking to form raid alliance Will raid anyone =ƒñÿ=ƒÿ£=ƒñÿ Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.07 17:48:00 - [42] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Penalties will be ineffective for anything other than driving people away from the game. Rewards for staying and playing despite being on a losing team, and despite entering the battle partway through are your best and most effective options.. I'm going to say I agree with you for the most part. Rewarding players for staying in battle would do more good, yes, but there still needs to be a penalty for leaving battles repeatedly. Perhaps you get X "freebies" each day that you are not penalized for. This could help account for issues beyond the player's control like power or PSN outages. Beyond that you have some kind of penalty; temporary ISK reduction from public contracts or something similar. Usually solutions to problems like this are one part carrot and one part stick, is all I'm saying. I once suggested a "battles completed per battles deployed" metric. I think it would be useful to not only see how big the problem is, but to identify certain issues where people aren't choosing to leave. You could also then reward those at the highest rates more significantly, while also varying the penalty so only the mercs most abusing the system are greatly penalized. That being said, I think we are beyond more complex and nuanced solutions at this point in Dusts life cycle, as we can't even get much other than silence at this point. I believe an over simplified reward system would be more effective than an over simplified penalty system. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 13	Posted - 2016.01.07 18:07:00 - [43] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I once suggested a "battles completed per battles deployed" metric. I think it would be useful to not only see how big the problem is, but to identify certain issues where people aren't choosing to leave. You could also then reward those at the highest rates more significantly, while also varying the penalty so only the mercs most abusing the system are greatly penalized. That being said, I think we are beyond more complex and nuanced solutions at this point in Dusts life cycle, as we can't even get much other than silence at this point. I believe an over simplified reward system would be more effective than an over simplified penalty system. All of this reminds of WoW's rested experience system. Many moons ago WoW had an XP mechanic that after X experience your character would get tired then only gain 50% XP from quests and killing monsters. You had to log out to slowly remove the penalty, and if I recall correctly, logging out in an inn removed the penalty faster. Players HATED it. Blizzard decided to flip the penalty to a bonus. Everyone started in a normal experience gain state, then if you logged out your character would accumulate "rested" XP which caused you to earn XP 50% faster. Logging out in an inn filled your rested XP quicker. Players liked rested experience a lot. The end result was the exact same though: playing for too long caused your character to gain XP more slowly. We can have the match bonus as so damn good that opting to leave a match before it's over is just plain silly. That might remove the need for a penalty entirely. ...but yeah, we might as well be theorycrafting about the ceiling tiles in HL3 at this point. What we're talking about isn't going to happen in the current iteration of Dust 514 (PS3). Become the phoenix, rise again
DEV Stupid Head Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2016.01.07 18:35:00 - [44] - Quote I'm not against a fine but it is still a bandaid for the real problem of matches remaining unbalanced I have proposed this bandaid as a way to at least make the matches tolerable: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3068548#post3068548
Summa Militum Opus Arcana 2	Posted - 2016.01.07 19:02:00 - [45] - Quote Vlad Rostok wrote: Most people play a game for fun. If they perceive that a match won't be fun (i.e. They will be stomped), then they won't play (they leave battle). Impose a fine as suggested and, given the model of this particular game, many may stop playing altogether. Is an even smaller playerbase what you seek? Uneven matches are frustrating but fines for leaving battle won't fix that. Consider basic human nature; therein lies the key to success of incentives or disincentives to remain in battle. Those same people who leave battle because it's not fun for them to face a challenge that could allow for them to become better in this game have no problem staying in a match when they are the ones stomping the redberries. Due to such blatant hypocrisy I say those people can go ** themselves or go play a new game. Their unwillingness to push themselves to become better at this game has a negative impact on the gameplay experience of everyone else. I recently started playing Domination again. A couple of days ago I started a match with full teams on the train map. I ran straight to the objective, killed a couple of redberries, and hacked the objective before I was slaughtered by 8 redberries who jumped me. As I was about to spawn in again I noticed over half my team had already quit the match and the remaining blueberries made no effort to actually make it to the objective. I find myself playing this game less and less now because I am getting tired of dealing with being **** over by my own teammates. Dust514 has given me a very negative perspective on gamers and how they view and work with a team. I am currently looking around for a new competitive FPS game to play that is solo player oriented. Thukker is Love, Thukker is Life
Summa Militum Opus Arcana 2	Posted - 2016.01.07 19:07:00 - [46] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: People leave battle for many reasons. A fine for leaving does not fix the reasons for why people leave battle. My strategy for the "leaving battle" issue would be to FIX ALL THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT CAUSE PEOPLE TO FREQUENTLY LEAVE BATTLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'd list them off, but I'm lazy, so... CAPS because I imma bust a cap in yo ass, and my aim sucks. Ya know, the people I see leaving battle the most are usually squads of people who have been playing for 1-2 years - mainly polish - they prefer stomping noobs who can't fight back. I agree with this except for the part about the people being Polish. I don't know how to identify Polish people in this game. Thukker is Love, Thukker is Life
SouthSidePhx MercenariesOfthePhoenix 5	Posted - 2016.01.07 19:21:00 - [47] - Quote Constantly stomping players does not help'em improve. If you want us to stop leaving battles stop using pro dropships, tanks officer/peoto in pubs vs randoms. I suggest we help proto stompers find other game modes, like fw and pc. Also, i wonder how proto stompers have so much isk to constantly go negative in pubs . Proto stompers may gets lots of kills like 25/5, but where did you get all that isk to lose 5 proto suits in a game mode that will pay roughly 300k isk
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 215	Posted - 2016.01.07 19:26:00 - [48] - Quote SouthSidePhx wrote: Constantly stomping players does not help'em improve. If you want us to stop leaving battles stop using pro dropships, tanks officer/peoto in pubs vs randoms. I suggest we help proto stompers find other game modes, like fw and pc. Also, i wonder how proto stompers have so much isk to constantly go negative in pubs . Proto stompers may gets lots of kills like 25/5, but where did you get all that isk to lose 5 proto suits in a game mode that will pay roughly 300k isk Actually if you sacrifice some good gear and actually try to win a battle.. payouts are from 500k - 1mil But what would you know about trying to win a battle ???
ANON Cerberus TerranProtossZerg 999	Posted - 2016.01.07 20:30:00 - [49] - Quote Everyone I think has had to leave battle for a many number of reasons at one point in time, we are only human and we have needs and emotions that will inevitably come first. That being said I never saw anywhere near close to the amount of people leaving battles back in beta as I do in game today so something needs to be done.
Rikku Previa Golden Goats War Pack 11	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:19:00 - [50] - Quote No ISK fine can ever be as horrifying as the already in place fine of getting no SP

sullen maximus Deadspace Knights 14	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:43:00 - [51] - Quote Luna McDuffing wrote: This is getting ridiculous. You [dumb redberries won't stick around for me to proto stomp you!] ^ This is pretty much how I read what you typed. I commented on this topic in another thread. So I'll just paste it here what I said. While I generally like the idea of rewarding for staying, you never addressed one of the primary reasons people leave. Being completely outmatching or people they know they simply DO NOT WANT to play. So long as CCP allows full groups that have wallet'ed their way to never use anything but protos and match them against people who have barely completed the academy people are going to quit. And implementing your 'stick' won't help the already dropping player base. Even with a drawback such as the one you mention i'm going to still quit out of games against teams that in general are simply not fun to play against. (stares at S.K.I.L.L. OF G.O.D. still have yet to have a lagswitch free game against this team). I don't understand why CCP thinks the same metric of "anyone can fight anyone" from eve would carry over to a FPS. In eve yes a rookie player in a frigate can take on a battleship from an old guard member because the battleship will not be able to hit it. An older member in dust will always be able to rofl stomp a newbie . If they were going to do something they need to have this game group members by average suit value per kill.
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 05:03:00 - [52] - Quote **** easymode slayers generally dont get over 1500wp= low payout. Iv played against u often and u never hit over 2k wp. I doubt u have any skills in hacking or know how to use an uplink . I just cant figure out how u fund ur constant officer/ pub stomping o7
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 05:22:00 - [53] - Quote Dicck n ballz
Fiono 4	Posted - 2016.01.08 05:28:00 - [54] - Quote @ sbundzlittled1cky
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.08 05:43:00 - [55] - Quote I don't believe in imposing fines on those who leave the battle as all it will encourage is just AFKing in the MCC or somewhere on the ground with a rubber band on their controller so that the server won't be able to sense inactivity. To me, the better option has, and always will be, incentives for completing a match as well as winning. Jadek Menaheim had an idea in place that utilized the personal warbarge for creating cumulative rewards that stacked more and more with every consecutive match you completed up to a maximum. The more consecutive matches you finished, the bigger the ISK and SP earnings and maybe better chances to getting good salvage. And if you win consecutively, your ISK and SP earnings go up even more. However, your earnings multiplier resets back to normal as soon as you leave a match before it finishes and you will only earn the base amount of ISK you earned for the time spent on that match you left. Jadek's idea takes full advantage of the upgrade features of the personal warbarge. Another alternative is to introduce a permanent Daily Mission (just like the daily key) that rewards you with a lot of ISK and SP for completing a set number of matches in a row for that day without leaving. Win a set number of matches in a row to maybe earn a key or booster. PC battles would not count towards these particular daily missions but they would count toward pubs and FW. Make the rewards worth it and you will see players get motivated to finish the fight. Punishment will only encourage them to leave more. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.08 06:29:00 - [56] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I don't believe in imposing fines on those who leave the battle as all it will encourage is just AFKing in the MCC or somewhere on the ground with a rubber band on their controller so that the server won't be able to sense inactivity. To me, the better option has, and always will be, incentives for completing a match as well as winning. Jadek Menaheim had an idea in place that utilized the personal warbarge for creating cumulative rewards that stacked more and more with every consecutive match you completed up to a maximum. The more consecutive matches you finished, the bigger the ISK and SP earnings and maybe better chances to getting good salvage. And if you win consecutively, your ISK and SP earnings go up even more. However, your earnings multiplier resets back to normal as soon as you leave a match before it finishes and you will only earn the base amount of ISK you earned for the time spent on that match you left. Jadek's idea takes full advantage of the upgrade features of the personal warbarge. Another alternative is to introduce a permanent Daily Mission (just like the daily key) that rewards you with a lot of ISK and SP for completing a set number of matches in a row for that day without leaving. Win a set number of matches in a row to maybe earn a key or booster. PC battles would not count towards these particular daily missions but they would count toward pubs and FW. Make the rewards worth it and you will see players get motivated to finish the fight. Punishment will only encourage them to leave more. PS: If by any chance someone gets disconnected or gets scottied, a feature should be implemented that allows you to rejoin the last match as long as it is still in progress and as long as you get back in within the next 3 minutes. If you wait longer than that to rejoin, your consecutive multiplier resets to zero and your spot in the roster gets opened up for the next player to join in mid-match. This is so that anyone who gets momentarily disconnected by accident or gets scottied gets a brief chance to get back in without having to get the rest of the squad to leave the battle (if they are in a squad). But you can only join that last match in progress during those 3 minutes. You can't simply join another match. ^ Dropsuit Usage Rates
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 251	Posted - 2016.01.09 19:28:00 - [57] - Quote Since the fined idea seems to be unpopular how about the following. Give a surrender option. The idea is that under certain condition you can choose the surrender option. If enough people accept then the game ends and all players get whatever they earned up to that point. I think there should be limits to what enables the surrender option. For example, only if there is a huge mismatch of players like say 6 vs 11 and maybe only after the MCC shields have been depleted.
Scarr Beloxian BLUEBERRIES WITH AUTISM RUST415 73	Posted - 2016.01.09 20:14:00 - [58] - Quote the fine should be 30mil isk and a 1hr ban on matchmaking seeking the end is no fun for an immortal
Satanic Fister Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2016.01.09 21:17:00 - [59] - Quote Firstly the matchmaking system AKA "scotty" needs a complete rework. After scotty knows how to balance a goddamn team then we can remove the leave battle option so the only way or leave is by relaunching dust. "It's like a porcupine with down syndrome... you know it wants hugs but they don't know the pain they cause..."
Satanic Fister Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 78	Posted - 2016.01.09 21:24:00 - [60] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I don't believe in imposing fines on those who leave the battle as all it will encourage is just AFKing in the MCC or somewhere on the ground with a rubber band on their controller so that the server won't be able to sense inactivity. To me, the better option has, and always will be, incentives for completing a match as well as winning. Jadek Menaheim had an idea in place that utilized the personal warbarge for creating cumulative rewards that stacked more and more with every consecutive match you completed up to a maximum. The more consecutive matches you finished, the bigger the ISK and SP earnings and maybe better chances to getting good salvage. And if you win consecutively, your ISK and SP earnings go up even more. However, your earnings multiplier resets back to normal as soon as you leave a match before it finishes and you will only earn the base amount of ISK you earned for the time spent on that match you left. Jadek's idea takes full advantage of the upgrade features of the personal warbarge. Another alternative is to introduce a permanent Daily Mission (just like the daily key) that rewards you with a lot of ISK and SP for completing a set number of matches in a row for that day without leaving. Win a set number of matches in a row to maybe earn a key or booster. PC battles would not count towards these particular daily missions but they would count toward pubs and FW. Make the rewards worth it and you will see players get motivated to finish the fight. Punishment will only encourage them to leave more. PS: If by any chance someone gets disconnected or gets scottied, a feature should be implemented that allows you to rejoin the last match as long as it is still in progress and as long as you get back in within the next 3 minutes. If you wait longer than that to rejoin, your consecutive multiplier resets to zero and your spot in the roster gets opened up for the next player to join in mid-match. This is so that anyone who gets momentarily disconnected by accident or gets scottied gets a brief chance to get back in without having to get the rest of the squad to leave the battle (if they are in a squad). But you can only join that last match in progress during those 3 minutes. You can't simply join another match. ^ That idea only encourages proto stomping with the way scotty works nowadays and would be unfair to noobs. Its not people leaving battle that's the problem it's the matchmaking. Proof is q-syncing is still viable even though ccp said after they fixed the matchmaker it wouldn't allow q-syncing. Last night I was playing a dom with a friend and the other team had 2 GAM squads and another corp (forgot the name) our team had the squad of me and my friend. Does that scream "good matchmaking" to you? "It's like a porcupine with down syndrome... you know it wants hugs but they don't know the pain they cause..."

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 4	Posted - 2016.01.09 21:24:00 - [61] - Quote or hey we could just make matches worth playing. Seriously tho just put DNF % on character sheets and the leader board. Let the community ridicule those who would rather stat pad. o7 All #514InTheWind
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2016.01.11 04:13:00 - [62] - Quote Satanic Fister wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I don't believe in imposing fines on those who leave the battle as all it will encourage is just AFKing in the MCC or somewhere on the ground with a rubber band on their controller so that the server won't be able to sense inactivity. To me, the better option has, and always will be, incentives for completing a match as well as winning. Jadek Menaheim had an idea in place that utilized the personal warbarge for creating cumulative rewards that stacked more and more with every consecutive match you completed up to a maximum. The more consecutive matches you finished, the bigger the ISK and SP earnings and maybe better chances to getting good salvage. And if you win consecutively, your ISK and SP earnings go up even more. However, your earnings multiplier resets back to normal as soon as you leave a match before it finishes and you will only earn the base amount of ISK you earned for the time spent on that match you left. Jadek's idea takes full advantage of the upgrade features of the personal warbarge. Another alternative is to introduce a permanent Daily Mission (just like the daily key) that rewards you with a lot of ISK and SP for completing a set number of matches in a row for that day without leaving. Win a set number of matches in a row to maybe earn a key or booster. PC battles would not count towards these particular daily missions but they would count toward pubs and FW. Make the rewards worth it and you will see players get motivated to finish the fight. Punishment will only encourage them to leave more. PS: If by any chance someone gets disconnected or gets scottied, a feature should be implemented that allows you to rejoin the last match as long as it is still in progress and as long as you get back in within the next 3 minutes. If you wait longer than that to rejoin, your consecutive multiplier resets to zero and your spot in the roster gets opened up for the next player to join in mid-match. This is so that anyone who gets momentarily disconnected by accident or gets scottied gets a brief chance to get back in without having to get the rest of the squad to leave the battle (if they are in a squad). But you can only join that last match in progress during those 3 minutes. You can't simply join another match. ^ That idea only encourages proto stomping with the way scotty works nowadays and would be unfair to noobs. Its not people leaving battle that's the problem it's the matchmaking. Proof is q-syncing is still viable even though ccp said after they fixed the matchmaker it wouldn't allow q-syncing. Last night I was playing a dom with a friend and the other team had 2 GAM squads and another corp (forgot the name) our team had the squad of me and my friend. Does that scream "good matchmaking" to you? It is actually both the lack of incentives to finish and/or win the matches and the lack of proper matchmaking. You and I cannot honestly say that it's either one or the other that is causing problems. Even if the noobs who are getting protostomped manage to win the match against a team of protos, they can only earn a minuscule amount of ISK and SP for the large amount of ISK they had to sacrifice to get that win. In other words, a net loss instead of net profit under the current system. That is bad motivation. But the main problem with the current matchmaking system is the lack of available players. The only reason matchmaking worked well in some of the earlier builds is because of the high player count we had. The system had enough players back then to function properly. But unfortunately we have lost a lot of players either due to the Rouge Wedding at Fanfest 2014 or because of the aging PS3 system which is likely to see an end to production this year or both. So if you really want good matchmaking, we need to move to either the PS4 or to the PC. Either way, it's better than in the PS3. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
DustPIayer Algintal Core Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2016.01.11 14:37:00 - [63] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Dust player will go broke DustPlayer can never break!


Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

Minotaur Necrophiliac