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Helping newbros: buffing STD/ADV

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Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.12.18 17:47:00 - [1] - Quote One thing we desperately need is new player retention. And one of the chief reasons players don't stay is their inability to compete. And a big reason for that is fitting space. The change to make all tiers of suit have the same fitting space was a good step in the right direction, but we failed to also increase CPU/PG when we did so. But originally, the suit CPU/PG allotment was designed around the lower slot count. Standard had way less fitting than proto because standard had way less slots. So now new players can't even utilize those extra slots because they simply don't have the fitting space. I did a random sampling of about 10 different suit types across all types and races, and I found that standard had ~47% of the fitting proto does. That is insane. I mean look at this: here is a completely militia fit suit, a fit a new player might use. Notice how its over its PG/CPU allotment? That's on a character with max skills in everything. Max CPU/pG increase, max weapon PG/CPU reduction (both main and sidearm) max light damage mod reduction; every single fitting skill is maxed out, and we still cannot fit everything. If a maxed out player can't do it, how is a newbro supposed to compete? What we need to do is massively buff the CPU/PG of all tiers of suit save for proto. Proto is in a good spot fitting wise, so we should keep it the same. What we need to do is buff militia, standard, and advanced fitting space to be closer to proto's fitting allotment. Assuming numbers are MLT/STD/ADV, I am tentatively thinking of a 55%/60%/80% of the proto version's fitting space. This will give a massive buff to lower tier suits, which helps newbros. And they need all the help they can get at this point. I can draw up a spreadsheet with exact numbers, but since that would take a long time I'm going to wait to see if this idea catches on before spending time on it. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 574	Posted - 2015.12.18 18:17:00 - [2] - Quote An altrenative would be to generate an amount of fitting per slot type at each tier (similar to what was done with vehicels when they started the whole same slot layout at different tiers), and generate new fitting statistics based off of that. Either way would work, and I generally support anything that makes STD/ADV gear more competitive overall Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Text Grant OSG Planetary Operations 448	Posted - 2015.12.19 11:16:00 - [3] - Quote This would be a step in the right direction
DIinkelFritz The Eternal Noxium Imperium 21	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:51:00 - [4] - Quote I see your point and I feel a good solution would be to lower Militia gear's bonus and PG/CPU. Similar to how Militia weapons have a lower clip size or longer reload time with weapons like the plasma cannon, perhaps armor plates reduce movement speed even more or the damage bonus is reduced by 1%. Allow the Newbros to fit the items they want and allow them to experiment and develop their build; while maintaining a clear ladder. Progression system neeeeeeeds more info. I was confused about what they wanted me to do and I have been playing this game since beta. Committed suicide....again...
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2015.12.21 19:01:00 - [5] - Quote Quote: Helping newbros: buffing STD/ADV Module Maths: Google Doc Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2015.12.22 02:04:00 - [6] - Quote Got distracted :-) To elaborate a bit, PRO weapons are roughly 5% stronger than ADV, which are roughly 5% stronger than STD. Dropsuit Modules, by contrast, follow an altogether different performance progression, with PRO often being exponentially stronger than STD. "But ... but ... but weapons are different because TTK!", screams the Chucklehead. Perhaps weapons are different, Mr Chucklehead, but do HP Modules not also directly impact TTK? Does it make sense that STD Ferroscale plates pay less than half the yield of their PRO equivalents? And the more PRO plates you stack on your PRO suit, the greater the TTK disparity between you and those poor sods stuck in STD gear. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 578	Posted - 2015.12.23 00:19:00 - [7] - Quote You are correct Nothi...the scaling on modules and equipment is extremely steep, even weapons with their +5% damage per tier (for anti infantry weapons only) can be considered too much. Module scaling and fitting power both need to be addressed. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
GeorgeN76 Eden Claims Corp 1	Posted - 2015.12.25 17:50:00 - [8] - Quote +1 for the op An excellent idea This is sorely needed for npe and me, lol I enjoy ruining a proto stompers day with militia and apex. Scouts and Swarms New Edens Pawn Shop
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 7	Posted - 2015.12.29 02:02:00 - [9] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Got distracted :-) To elaborate a bit, PRO weapons are roughly 5% stronger than ADV, which are roughly 5% stronger than STD. A logical and sensible progression. Dropsuit Modules, by contrast, follow an altogether different progression, with PRO Modules in numerous instances being many times stronger than STD. "But ... but ... but weapons are different because TTK!", screams Mr Chucklehead. Perhaps weapons are different, but don't HP Modules also affect TTK? If TTK is of concern, shouldn't it concern us that STD Ferroscale plates (for instance) have less than half the ouptut as PRO ferroscale? And that's on a per-module basis! The more PRO HP Modules a player stacks, the greater the TTK disparity between that player and those poor sods running STD gear. Massive performance disparity between tiers of guns doesn't make sense. How does it make sense with tiers of gear? If for no other reason, narrowing the performance gap between STD, ADV and PRO Modules would absolutely improve NPE. It'd also shakeup the status quo and lessen vet perks, which unfortunately is precisely why I'd expect folks to oppose the change ... "Yes! Improve NPE ASAP! But don't touch my vet perks." The vehicle modules are even more messed up lol I think taking a hard look at the progression between tiers is a great idea. If anything, at least make it more consistent. "That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
benandjerrys WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2015.12.29 02:20:00 - [10] - Quote Mind you more slots = the ability to put cpu & pg upgrades which does help. Regardless of that I still agree with the OP. Free isk! (comment with in game name) #portdust514

DIinkelFritz The Eternal Noxium Imperium 25	Posted - 2015.12.29 03:52:00 - [11] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Got distracted :-) To elaborate a bit, PRO weapons are roughly 5% stronger than ADV, which are roughly 5% stronger than STD. A logical and sensible progression. Dropsuit Modules, by contrast, follow an altogether different progression, with PRO Modules in numerous instances being many times stronger than STD. "But ... but ... but weapons are different because TTK!", screams Mr Chucklehead. Perhaps weapons are different, but don't HP Modules also affect TTK? If TTK is of concern, shouldn't it concern us that STD Ferroscale plates (for instance) have less than half the ouptut as PRO ferroscale? And that's on a per-module basis! The more PRO HP Modules a player stacks, the greater the TTK disparity between that player and those poor sods running STD gear. Massive performance disparity between tiers of guns doesn't make sense. How does it make sense with tiers of gear? If for no other reason, narrowing the performance gap between STD, ADV and PRO Modules would absolutely improve NPE. It'd also shakeup the status quo and lessen vet perks, which unfortunately is precisely why I'd expect folks to oppose the change ... "Yes! Improve NPE ASAP! But don't touch my vet perks." The vehicle modules are even more messed up lol I think taking a hard look at the progression between tiers is a great idea. If anything, at least make it more consistent. I agree. I review and modify my dropsuit fittings regularly, and I notice a change in the dps for the level of weapon I use, but it is manageable. However, I would lower my weapon from PRO down to basic if it means I can change a basic modules to enhanced. The difference between modules is rather high, especially when you factor in skill bonuses. A standard armor plate user gets 85 hp. A complex Armor plate with the skills to match is worth 2.5x more hp. (135x (25% + 10%)~180hp. I don't want Comlex to be lowered, I would rather basic and enhanced gear buffed. Committed suicide....again... Portdust514 #Port my Dick
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2015.12.29 19:54:00 - [12] - Quote DIinkelFritz wrote: .... I don't want Comlex to be lowered, I would rather basic and enhanced gear buffed. That's precisely what's proposed here: Google Doc: Narrowing the Power Gap Includes maths for a handful of different approaches to narrowing the gap between STD, ADV and PRO dropsuit modules. Any one these would make more sense than present progressions. Any one of these would immediately improve NPE. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.01.06 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote Bump Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Mars Tyr Rawdy Horde 0	Posted - 2016.01.06 22:03:00 - [14] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: One thing we desperately need is new player retention. And one of the chief reasons players don't stay is their inability to compete. And a big reason for that is fitting space. The change to make all tiers of suit have the same fitting space was a good step in the right direction, but we failed to also increase CPU/PG when we did so. But originally, the suit CPU/PG allotment was designed around the lower slot count. Standard had way less fitting than proto because standard had way less slots. So now new players can't even utilize those extra slots because they simply don't have the fitting space. I did a random sampling of about 10 different suit types across all types and races, and I found that standard had ~47% of the fitting proto does. That is insane. I mean look at this: here is a completely militia fit suit, a fit a new player might use. Notice how its over its PG/CPU allotment? That's on a character with max skills in everything. Max CPU/pG increase, max weapon PG/CPU reduction (both main and sidearm) max light damage mod reduction; every single fitting skill is maxed out, and we still cannot fit everything. If a maxed out player can't do it, how is a newbro supposed to compete? What we need to do is massively buff the CPU/PG of all tiers of suit save for proto. Proto is in a good spot fitting wise, so we should keep it the same. What we need to do is buff militia, standard, and advanced fitting space to be closer to proto's fitting allotment. Assuming numbers are MLT/STD/ADV, I am tentatively thinking of a 55%/60%/80% of the proto version's fitting space. This will give a massive buff to lower tier suits, which helps newbros. And they need all the help they can get at this point. I can draw up a spreadsheet with exact numbers, but since that would take a long time I'm going to wait to see if this idea catches on before spending time on it. While I agree with what you're saying that we need to buff the cpu/pg of the low end suits, I disagree that this is the biggest hurdle facing newer players TBH the bigger problem is the absurdity in gear which they will be facing. I'm putting a new thread together discussing it.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 597	Posted - 2016.01.07 02:57:00 - [15] - Quote Mars Tyr wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: One thing we desperately need is new player retention. And one of the chief reasons players don't stay is their inability to compete. And a big reason for that is fitting space. The change to make all tiers of suit have the same fitting space was a good step in the right direction, but we failed to also increase CPU/PG when we did so. But originally, the suit CPU/PG allotment was designed around the lower slot count. Standard had way less fitting than proto because standard had way less slots. So now new players can't even utilize those extra slots because they simply don't have the fitting space. I did a random sampling of about 10 different suit types across all types and races, and I found that standard had ~47% of the fitting proto does. That is insane. I mean look at this: here is a completely militia fit suit, a fit a new player might use. Notice how its over its PG/CPU allotment? That's on a character with max skills in everything. Max CPU/pG increase, max weapon PG/CPU reduction (both main and sidearm) max light damage mod reduction; every single fitting skill is maxed out, and we still cannot fit everything. If a maxed out player can't do it, how is a newbro supposed to compete? What we need to do is massively buff the CPU/PG of all tiers of suit save for proto. Proto is in a good spot fitting wise, so we should keep it the same. What we need to do is buff militia, standard, and advanced fitting space to be closer to proto's fitting allotment. Assuming numbers are MLT/STD/ADV, I am tentatively thinking of a 55%/60%/80% of the proto version's fitting space. This will give a massive buff to lower tier suits, which helps newbros. And they need all the help they can get at this point. I can draw up a spreadsheet with exact numbers, but since that would take a long time I'm going to wait to see if this idea catches on before spending time on it. While I agree with what you're saying that we need to buff the cpu/pg of the low end suits, I disagree that this is the biggest hurdle facing newer players TBH the bigger problem is the absurdity in gear which they will be facing. I'm putting a new thread together discussing it. Modules Disparity is larger, which is amplified by the low fitting statistics on lower tier suits (although adding in all the slots was a major step in the right direction) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 03:42:00 - [16] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Modules Disparity is larger, which is amplified by the low fitting statistics on lower tier suits (although adding in all the slots was a major step in the right direction) ^ Dropsuit Usage Rates
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.07 03:46:00 - [17] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Modules Disparity is larger, which is amplified by the low fitting statistics on lower tier suits (although adding in all the slots was a major step in the right direction) ^ Although I do suspect that it is part of the reason Assaults are over performing, given that they have a significant slot advantage. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 600	Posted - 2016.01.07 06:11:00 - [18] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Modules Disparity is larger, which is amplified by the low fitting statistics on lower tier suits (although adding in all the slots was a major step in the right direction) ^ Although I do suspect that it is part of the reason Assaults are over performing, given that they have a significant slot advantage. 8 H/L (Medium Suits) vs 6 H/L (Light Suits) vs 5 H/L (Heavy Suits)...might be onto something there...Particularly the "Tech 2" specialized medium frames (Assault/Logi) have a huge amount of versatility for specialized suits (although, that isn't necessarily a bad thing). Although the thought of a Commando/Sentinel Suit with 8 slots is fairly terrifying (Typically it seems as though the stats where designed with the lower slot count in mind, but it does mean that medium frames retain a higher degree of versatility to their Lighter or Heavier Counterparts). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 14:15:00 - [19] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Modules Disparity is larger, which is amplified by the low fitting statistics on lower tier suits (although adding in all the slots was a major step in the right direction) ^ Although I do suspect that it is part of the reason Assaults are over performing, given that they have a significant slot advantage. 8 H/L (Medium Suits) vs 6 H/L (Light Suits) vs 5 H/L (Heavy Suits)...might be onto something there...Particularly the "Tech 2" specialized medium frames (Assault/Logi) have a huge amount of versatility for specialized suits (although, that isn't necessarily a bad thing). Although the thought of a Commando/Sentinel Suit with 8 slots is fairly terrifying (Typically it seems as though the stats where designed with the lower slot count in mind, but it does mean that medium frames retain a higher degree of versatility to their Lighter or Heavier Counterparts). INB4 "working as intended". While I agree that MedFrames should be the most versatile units, there are different degrees of most versatile and not all degrees are reasonable. There's a big difference between being (A) the most wealthy guy in a room full of random rich guys and (B) Bill Gates in a room full of random rich guys. Dropsuit Usage Rates
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.07 17:05:00 - [20] - Quote This is good. Newbros can fit more things properly. Helps reduce the gimp factor between mlt,std,adv,pro,exp,and officer. Though that's still too many tiers. Proto isn't that hard to combat in low tier suit if you have prior knowledge and skill points in the area of item you are using. But it becomes a near impossible challenge to kill proto with milita unless you one hit them with say a milita forge gun. Running around on my alt a while ago who is purely caldari,I noticed how pitiful my sheilds were in comparison to other people. And due to the lack of points in engineering or other benficial things my suits would lack in pg/CPU so badly I was forced to leave slots empty in order to do anything. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!

Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.01.07 19:46:00 - [21] - Quote Mars Tyr wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: One thing we desperately need is new player retention. And one of the chief reasons players don't stay is their inability to compete. And a big reason for that is fitting space. The change to make all tiers of suit have the same fitting space was a good step in the right direction, but we failed to also increase CPU/PG when we did so. But originally, the suit CPU/PG allotment was designed around the lower slot count. Standard had way less fitting than proto because standard had way less slots. So now new players can't even utilize those extra slots because they simply don't have the fitting space. I did a random sampling of about 10 different suit types across all types and races, and I found that standard had ~47% of the fitting proto does. That is insane. I mean look at this: here is a completely militia fit suit, a fit a new player might use. Notice how its over its PG/CPU allotment? That's on a character with max skills in everything. Max CPU/pG increase, max weapon PG/CPU reduction (both main and sidearm) max light damage mod reduction; every single fitting skill is maxed out, and we still cannot fit everything. If a maxed out player can't do it, how is a newbro supposed to compete? What we need to do is massively buff the CPU/PG of all tiers of suit save for proto. Proto is in a good spot fitting wise, so we should keep it the same. What we need to do is buff militia, standard, and advanced fitting space to be closer to proto's fitting allotment. Assuming numbers are MLT/STD/ADV, I am tentatively thinking of a 55%/60%/80% of the proto version's fitting space. This will give a massive buff to lower tier suits, which helps newbros. And they need all the help they can get at this point. I can draw up a spreadsheet with exact numbers, but since that would take a long time I'm going to wait to see if this idea catches on before spending time on it. While I agree with what you're saying that we need to buff the cpu/pg of the low end suits, I disagree that this is the biggest hurdle facing newer players TBH the bigger problem is the absurdity in gear which they will be facing. I'm putting a new thread together discussing it. Even if we buff gear, it won't mean anything if newbros can't fit it. Buffing fitting helps them now, and it helps them after we buff the mods. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 20:24:00 - [22] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Modules Disparity is larger, which is amplified by the low fitting statistics on lower tier suits (although adding in all the slots was a major step in the right direction) ^ Although I do suspect that it is part of the reason Assaults are over performing, given that they have a significant slot advantage. 8 H/L (Medium Suits) vs 6 H/L (Light Suits) vs 5 H/L (Heavy Suits)...might be onto something there...Particularly the "Tech 2" specialized medium frames (Assault/Logi) have a huge amount of versatility for specialized suits (although, that isn't necessarily a bad thing). Although the thought of a Commando/Sentinel Suit with 8 slots is fairly terrifying (Typically it seems as though the stats where designed with the lower slot count in mind, but it does mean that medium frames retain a higher degree of versatility to their Lighter or Heavier Counterparts). As an aside, "more module slots" also means that module buffs are not felt equally. The more module slots available to a unit, the more that unit stands to benefit from buffs to a given module buff. This point is of particular concern when buffing module which can be stacked without diminishing returns. Not to say that modules shouldn't be buffed, rather, that we should take into account potential impact on interclass balance when doing so. "Let's buff shield extenders", for instance, may seem an obvious and reasonable means by which to bring shields up-to-speed with armor. It may be, but it will also worsen interclass balance, as MedFrames stand to benefit from the buff moreso than Heavies and Lights, which places MedFrames even further ahead of the pack. Buffing MedFrame base shield stats (i.e. recovery and delay) and then buffing shield extenders -- which appears to be the path taken -- well, that will be even worse for interclass balance. The same caveat applies to NPE. Given the current module progression, buffing a given module will benefit those running PRO tier by substantially greater degree than those running STD. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 20:39:00 - [23] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Mars Tyr wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: One thing we desperately need is new player retention. And one of the chief reasons players don't stay is their inability to compete. And a big reason for that is fitting space. The change to make all tiers of suit have the same fitting space was a good step in the right direction, but we failed to also increase CPU/PG when we did so. But originally, the suit CPU/PG allotment was designed around the lower slot count. Standard had way less fitting than proto because standard had way less slots. So now new players can't even utilize those extra slots because they simply don't have the fitting space. I did a random sampling of about 10 different suit types across all types and races, and I found that standard had ~47% of the fitting proto does. That is insane. I mean look at this: here is a completely militia fit suit, a fit a new player might use. Notice how its over its PG/CPU allotment? That's on a character with max skills in everything. Max CPU/pG increase, max weapon PG/CPU reduction (both main and sidearm) max light damage mod reduction; every single fitting skill is maxed out, and we still cannot fit everything. If a maxed out player can't do it, how is a newbro supposed to compete? What we need to do is massively buff the CPU/PG of all tiers of suit save for proto. Proto is in a good spot fitting wise, so we should keep it the same. What we need to do is buff militia, standard, and advanced fitting space to be closer to proto's fitting allotment. Assuming numbers are MLT/STD/ADV, I am tentatively thinking of a 55%/60%/80% of the proto version's fitting space. This will give a massive buff to lower tier suits, which helps newbros. And they need all the help they can get at this point. I can draw up a spreadsheet with exact numbers, but since that would take a long time I'm going to wait to see if this idea catches on before spending time on it. While I agree with what you're saying that we need to buff the cpu/pg of the low end suits, I disagree that this is the biggest hurdle facing newer players TBH the bigger problem is the absurdity in gear which they will be facing. I'm putting a new thread together discussing it. Even if we buff gear, it won't mean anything if newbros can't fit it. Buffing fitting helps them now, and it helps them after we buff the mods. Newbros run low-end gear. If CCPs buff low-end gear while holding high-end gear constant, newbros will absolutely benefit. Both directly and relatively. Not to say that adding PG/CPU to lower end suits wouldn't help newbros. Doing so would make it easier to fit higher end gear on lower end suits. That said, those running lower end gear on lower end suits would not benefit at all from additional PG/CPU. In fact, their relative performance may suffer, given that those who've unlocked higher end gear could fit it on lower end suits. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 600	Posted - 2016.01.07 21:13:00 - [24] - Quote Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:07:00 - [25] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Not sure whether or not I agree, but several have proposed removing MLT Gear altogether. Varoth Drac had a unique, arguably better idea for MLT Gear. I'd have to dig up the thread for details, but the premise IIRC was to make MLT Modules yellow and pre-fit suits with them to serve as a kind of reminder/guide for newbros ... This, Mr Newbro, is the Gallente Assault. As you can see from the pre-fit selections, one good way to run it is with A,B,C in its highs and X,Y,Z in its lows. Feel free to swap out the yellow, prefit modules with better modules of the same type or to create your own by experimenting with different options. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 602	Posted - 2016.01.07 22:24:00 - [26] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Not sure whether or not I agree, but several have proposed removing MLT Gear altogether. Varoth Drac had a unique, arguably better idea for MLT Gear. I'd have to dig up the thread for details, but the premise IIRC was to make MLT Modules yellow and pre-fit suits with them to serve as a kind of reminder/guide/template for newbros ... This, Mr Newbro, is an off-the-rack Gallente Assault. It comes with the following pre-fit selections, which demonstrate one good, "racially appropriate" way to run it. The pre-fit module selections are intended to serve as a guide. You are, of course, encouraged to swap out the freebie modules with better performing modules of the same type or to create your own fit by experimenting with different combinations of modules. Very Much WIP Spreadsheet Working on accounting for skill bonuses/fitting bonuses, so current fitting totals are on the very high end Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:15:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Not sure whether or not I agree, but several have proposed removing MLT Gear altogether. Varoth Drac had a unique, arguably better idea for MLT Gear. I'd have to dig up the thread for details, but the premise IIRC was to make MLT Modules yellow and pre-fit suits with them to serve as a kind of reminder/guide/template for newbros ... This, Mr Newbro, is an off-the-rack Gallente Assault. It comes with the following pre-fit selections, which demonstrate one good, "racially appropriate" way to run it. The pre-fit module selections are intended to serve as a guide. You are, of course, encouraged to swap out the freebie modules with better performing modules of the same type or to create your own fit by experimenting with different combinations of modules. If we do that, we will need to make militia versions of all mods. Reactive plates, ferroscale, everything. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:19:00 - [28] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Not sure whether or not I agree, but several have proposed removing MLT Gear altogether. Varoth Drac had a unique, arguably better idea for MLT Gear. I'd have to dig up the thread for details, but the premise IIRC was to make MLT Modules yellow and pre-fit suits with them to serve as a kind of reminder/guide/template for newbros ... This, Mr Newbro, is an off-the-rack Gallente Assault. It comes with the following pre-fit selections, which demonstrate one good, "racially appropriate" way to run it. The pre-fit module selections are intended to serve as a guide. You are, of course, encouraged to swap out the freebie modules with better performing modules of the same type or to create your own fit by experimenting with different combinations of modules. If we do that, we will need to make militia versions of all mods. Reactive plates, ferroscale, everything. Agreed. Might not be a bad idea to let newbros swap around yellows to encourage experimentation. Building your first custom fit would be alot easier. No need to understand/peruse skills, visit the market or worry about ISK. Just read the descriptions of different yellows that "fit" and try out whatever looks interesting. * Is like APEX, but not APEX as APEX modules are STD tier. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 604	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:20:00 - [29] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Not sure whether or not I agree, but several have proposed removing MLT Gear altogether. Varoth Drac had a unique, arguably better idea for MLT Gear. I'd have to dig up the thread for details, but the premise IIRC was to make MLT Modules yellow and pre-fit suits with them to serve as a kind of reminder/guide/template for newbros ... This, Mr Newbro, is an off-the-rack Gallente Assault. It comes with the following pre-fit selections, which demonstrate one good, "racially appropriate" way to run it. The pre-fit module selections are intended to serve as a guide. You are, of course, encouraged to swap out the freebie modules with better performing modules of the same type or to create your own fit by experimenting with different combinations of modules. If we do that, we will need to make militia versions of all mods. Reactive plates, ferroscale, everything. No problem with that, provided that they all follow a gods damned pattern for generating the statistics Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. #PortDust514 ...Preferably to both PS4 and PC
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.07 23:22:00 - [30] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Part of the issues surrounding Militia Suits/Fits is that Militia Items have higher fitting costs then their Standard Counterparts...that's all well and good, but it means that Militia Suits actually need more CPU/PG per slot than a Standard Suit...The solution to this with HAVs was to make the STD/ADV/PRO HAVs hav 7 slots, and the MLT HAVs have 5 slots (Gunnlogi 5/2 vs the Sica 4/1)...and it might work for the suits as well (although it sort of nerfs Militia, while still buffing it?)...I'm working on a spreadsheet for this kind of thing, have most of the stats input, taking a break on it because editing the formulae is annoying xD, but I should have it done soon... It'll at least serve as a base for people to work on their own proposals, with information like average module fitting statistics for each slot (discounting values of zero in pg/cpu so as not to tremendously bring down fitting amounts)... Not sure whether or not I agree, but several have proposed removing MLT Gear altogether. Varoth Drac had a unique, arguably better idea for MLT Gear. I'd have to dig up the thread for details, but the premise IIRC was to make MLT Modules yellow and pre-fit suits with them to serve as a kind of reminder/guide/template for newbros ... This, Mr Newbro, is an off-the-rack Gallente Assault. It comes with the following pre-fit selections, which demonstrate one good, "racially appropriate" way to run it. The pre-fit module selections are intended to serve as a guide. You are, of course, encouraged to swap out the freebie modules with better performing modules of the same type or to create your own fit by experimenting with different combinations of modules. If we do that, we will need to make militia versions of all mods. Reactive plates, ferroscale, everything. No problem with that, provided that they all follow a gods damned pattern for generating the statistics It'd be nice if that progression pattern were simplified and standardized across all module types. Kinda like weapons, where STD are 5% weaker than ADV, and ADV are 5% weaker than PRO. Emphasis on the method (not the 5%). Dropsuit Usage Rates



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