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Radiant Pancake3
2
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Posted - 2015.12.05 17:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Time for a reality check.
Lets start with a great opener. No medium, and especially not a heavy frame should be able to fall under the scan precision of an active scanner. Let me explain.
Assaults: Upfront (in most cases) one on one encounters. They are good for getting up in there and shoving their guns right down peoples throats UNLESS they are focused on long range encounters with long ranged weapons. They are scannable because they have a bit of tank to them.
Logis: Do I even need to say that the fact that they hold equipment gives more than ample reason to be scanned?
Commandos: Tankier Assaults (usually with some form of AV) or just the fact that they have TWO light weapons, and not to mention their base HP is much higher than an Assault. Scans are used to pick up threats, and Commandos can be deadly.
Sentinels: Fatty McFat Fats with armor plates and a freaking HMG or Forge Gun. So yeah these guys definitely should never fall under a scan.
Secondly, anyone who says "why should I or anyone else gimp my suit by using a damp" needs to be slapped. If you are relying THAT much on your HP then maybe you should run something else or hide like the little whiney bitches you are. You are gimping yourself by not being diverse in your playstyle. (This just grinds my gears because I think of all the people who don't use proper fits and then complain when other mechanics in the game beat them out. This to me is a no brainer.)
Next lets take a minute to think about how many people you see on the field with scanners. I know that if I'm in a squad there are two of us with scanners and neither of us have more than one on our suits PLUS I see about 3-5 other people on my team running scans as well. To top THAT off, I generally see one or more vehicles driving or flying around with scans constantly running.
Moral of this little story is that if you're complaining about Permascanning, please do us all a favor and grow a pair because your cries are nothing but invalid and there are too many buckets full of your tears laying around. Use them on something that is actually wrong in this game. Oh Alcina... Your posts are intriguing... Also, you like my Sig? It's a reference to last night. :P
Lives in a woman's pants.
Min Loyalist
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Alcina Nektaria
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
460
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Posted - 2015.12.05 17:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Oh Alcina... Your posts are intriguing... Also, you like my Sig? It's a reference to last night. :P
LOL! Best conversation ever. My head hurts from laughing so much....and then from raging so much.
D4GG3R is my mom.
I have reason to suspect Archduke is a Sassy Pirate.
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Radiant Pancake3
2
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Posted - 2015.12.05 17:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Radiant Pancake3 wrote:Oh Alcina... Your posts are intriguing... Also, you like my Sig? It's a reference to last night. :P LOL! Best conversation ever. My head hurts from laughing so much....and then from raging so much. Well you wouldn't have raged if you derped with us... but noooooooooooo you decided to be Miss i'm going to attempt to push A by myself with retarded blues... who can't aim a gun and shoot.
Lives in a woman's pants.
Min Loyalist
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.12.05 18:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Scanners are qualitatively different than the other equipment in a big way.
All other equipment allow a player to make a localized & physical contribution on the battlefield, whereas scanners allow a player access to tactical information distributed over a large area of the battlefield for some length of time. Furthermore, when the scans are shared in a squad they increase tactical strength by an order of magnitude through collective repositioning, adaptation and focused fire.
The power of scans and the power of stacked scans seems pretty obvious. I like to think of it this way: What would Sun Tzu pick, more nanites or Active scans?
There is no greater offensive or defensive force multiplier that real-time Battlefield information - position, movement and orientation in the case of our active scanners. That's crazy powerful and on a completely different level than Dust's other pieces of battlefield equipment.
Imo opinion shared scans need to be modified somehow. Either a piece of equipment that is required for access to shared scans(dev-time heavy, unfortunately) or some modification to the sharing rules for scans(hopefully dev-time lite, if the original code is some godawful dog's brekkie).
PSN: RationalSpark
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Vyuru
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
296
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Posted - 2015.12.05 20:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Time for a reality check.
Lets start with a great opener. No medium, and especially not a heavy frame should be able to fall under the scan precision of an active scanner. Let me explain.
Assaults: Upfront (in most cases) one on one encounters. They are good for getting up in there and shoving their guns right down peoples throats UNLESS they are focused on long range encounters with long ranged weapons. They are scannable because they have a bit of tank to them.
Logis: Do I even need to say that the fact that they hold equipment gives more than ample reason to be scanned?
Commandos: Tankier Assaults (usually with some form of AV) or just the fact that they have TWO light weapons, and not to mention their base HP is much higher than an Assault. Scans are used to pick up threats, and Commandos can be deadly.
Sentinels: Fatty McFat Fats with armor plates and a freaking HMG or Forge Gun. So yeah these guys definitely should never fall under a scan.
Secondly, anyone who says "why should I or anyone else gimp my suit by using a damp" needs to be slapped. If you are relying THAT much on your HP then maybe you should run something else or hide like the little whiney bitches you are. You are gimping yourself by not being diverse in your playstyle. (This just grinds my gears because I think of all the people who don't use proper fits and then complain when other mechanics in the game beat them out. This to me is a no brainer.)
Next lets take a minute to think about how many people you see on the field with scanners. I know that if I'm in a squad there are two of us with scanners and neither of us have more than one on our suits PLUS I see about 3-5 other people on my team running scans as well. To top THAT off, I generally see one or more vehicles driving or flying around with scans constantly running.
Moral of this little story is that if you're complaining about Permascanning, please do us all a favor and grow a pair because your cries are nothing but invalid and there are too many buckets full of your tears laying around. Use them on something that is actually wrong in this game.
Alot of this I do actually agree with. I start to have issues when my 2x damped Gal Scout is under perma scan, and the scanner is in or close to the redline with a 2 man escort. They are providing enough of a tactical advantage in most cases that they can afford to have a couple of people off the frontlines.
I don't know if you've played scout's or not, but you learn real fast when the Gal Logi knows there is a scout in the area they can't scan and send their buddies to take you out. It feels like there is no good counter to a smart Gal Logi player, and THAT I do not like at all.
Lower level scanners and vehicles scanners I don't mind. With proper skills and or modules you can hide from them if you want.
Alot of my issues with scans actually come from small narrow maps. Or you kill someone and they whip out a Gal Logi with 4x scanners to chase you down with. Because they still know where you are whether or not they scan you.
I'd really like to see scanner falloff range like for passive scans, and the removal of the 'some margin of error' message if you are damped enough below the scanner's ability to scan you. If your scan profile is close to the scanner's ability, then I think the 'some margin of error' message should come up. |
Daemonn Adima
Y.A.M.A.H
581
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Posted - 2015.12.05 20:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Llast 326 wrote:Union118 wrote:Getting scanned 24/7 in a single match is a bit overkill. I dont care how many slots you have and what suit but the stacking scanners has got to go.
I get the importance of a scan and its scanner but it is unnecessary for it to never stop. The whole team is not just going to turn into scouts and place links.
The 200 meter for a scan for 8 seconds with 15 seconds of cool down is still a bit much if a gal logi is using it. Mayby 150 meters for 10 seconds and 20 second cooldown. You dont need 200 cuz on most maps thats half the playing field from redline to redline.
Idk but unless someone has some better ideas for stacked scanners i think one should be enough. I'm partially to putting the same 3 second delay that the cloak has on the Scanners. That way people can carry different scanners for different levels of detection but would have to take time to switch between them. This would also add risk to scanning, as right now it's nothing to switch from scanner to weapon. LoL "Risk to scanning?" You mean "risk to farting". You want a Scanning Risk? Force ALL scans to reveal EVERYONE in their scan radius. Both allies and enemies. EVERYONE.
I was literally havin a fart when I read this. Well played.
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jordy mack
WarRavens Imperium Eden
941
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Posted - 2015.12.06 00:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
so the scouts dont like being stalked and permascanned?
well guess what, i dont like getting shot in the back.
Less QQ more PewPew
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Happy Violentime
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 01:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Summa Militum wrote:Happy Violentime wrote:lamo guys wrote:Sorry man I scan a lot, but never have I run dual scans! Dual? I run quadruple scans on my gal logi. Is that necessary? I am able to permascan with my GalLogi using two CreoDron Active Scanners. It takes 3 flux to perma scan and a 4th to scan for the potential flank or a focused to get scouts. I can understand equipping a Focused Scanner as Scanner #3 for tactical reasons but I feel like equipping 3 CreoDron Active Scanners is rather inefficient. Perhaps equipping so many scanners makes sense when running with a squad because you can just have someone else in your squad take care of providing other very necessary pieces of equipment. My Logi's are fitted around the premise of me running solo so if I were to equip three scanners it would be less beneficial than if I equipped two scanners and used my other two equipment slots for two other pieces of equipment. I guess it's all situational.
TBH, I hardly scan when in squad, generally I run solo and only pull out a gal logi when the team I'm on is being perma scanned, that way it does a bit to level the playing field.
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Happy Violentime
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 01:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Time for a reality check.
Lets start with a great opener. No medium, and especially not a heavy frame should be able to fall under the scan precision of an active scanner. Let me explain.
Assaults: Upfront (in most cases) one on one encounters. They are good for getting up in there and shoving their guns right down peoples throats UNLESS they are focused on long range encounters with long ranged weapons. They are scannable because they have a bit of tank to them.
Logis: Do I even need to say that the fact that they hold equipment gives more than ample reason to be scanned?
Commandos: Tankier Assaults (usually with some form of AV) or just the fact that they have TWO light weapons, and not to mention their base HP is much higher than an Assault. Scans are used to pick up threats, and Commandos can be deadly.
Sentinels: Fatty McFat Fats with armor plates and a freaking HMG or Forge Gun. So yeah these guys definitely should never fall under a scan.
Secondly, anyone who says "why should I or anyone else gimp my suit by using a damp" needs to be slapped. If you are relying THAT much on your HP then maybe you should run something else or hide like the little whiney bitches you are. You are gimping yourself by not being diverse in your playstyle. (This just grinds my gears because I think of all the people who don't use proper fits and then complain when other mechanics in the game beat them out. This to me is a no brainer.)
Next lets take a minute to think about how many people you see on the field with scanners. I know that if I'm in a squad there are two of us with scanners and neither of us have more than one on our suits PLUS I see about 3-5 other people on my team running scans as well. To top THAT off, I generally see one or more vehicles driving or flying around with scans constantly running.
Moral of this little story is that if you're complaining about Permascanning, please do us all a favor and grow a pair because your cries are nothing but invalid and there are too many buckets full of your tears laying around. Use them on something that is actually wrong in this game.
Plenty of scanners available on the market that can't scan a medium suit if your dampening skill is at 5 (with no damps fitted) |
maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 08:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Removed scanners and replaced with potato. Scanners deemed too "op" against enemy team.
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 10:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Active scanners have no flaws and are way too powerful, people defending them are just like people defending any OP weapons, blind on purpose.
Being able to perma scan makes an already OP equipment even more powerful. It deletes all the potential drawbacks of the scanner which are range and cooldown. Bring 3 or 4 and you can see even the most dampened scout permanently.
Gimping an assault suit or anything that's not a scout with more than 1 dampener is totally stupid, and people who think they are smart by suggesting this should play the game instead of playing "the forums".
Port it now !
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Victor889
WarRavens Imperium Eden
323
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Posted - 2015.12.06 12:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
GalScout
just change to an undetectable suit? |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2015.12.06 15:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Active scanners have no flaws and are way too powerful, people defending them are just like people defending any OP weapons, blind on purpose.
Being able to perma scan makes an already OP equipment even more powerful. It deletes all the potential drawbacks of the scanner which are range and cooldown. Bring 3 or 4 and you can see even the most dampened scout permanently.
Gimping an assault suit or anything that's not a scout with more than 1 dampener is totally stupid, and people who think they are smart by suggesting this should play the game instead of playing "the forums". ^
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
2
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Posted - 2015.12.06 17:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Non-focussed scans I don't know what to think really. The warpoint rewards definately need increasing as they should reflect your contribution to the battle, and scanning provides a huge contribution. I like the concept of the scanner and it would be a shame to over nerf it. The ability to permascan is possibly a bit OP. Perhaps a shared scanner cooldown would be a good idea. As for the precision, whilst I feel the requirement of 3 complex dampeners for assaults is a bit steep, there does need to be sufficient distinction here between assaults and scouts. Min and Am scouts only need one less dampener than an assault, which isn't much of an advantage considering assaults have more slots anyway. Min and Am scouts really need the same profiles as Cal and Gal. So I'm not sure if it should be easier for assaults to dampen. Avoiding scans is the point of a scout. On the other hand perhaps there would be more room for counter play if it was a bit easier for all suits to use dampeners to hide from scans. If the Gal logi bonus was shifted from precision to something else like cooldown, an assault could hide with 2 damps and a Gal scout with 0. Would this be a more reasonable situation? I don't know.
Focussed scanners are different. They are designed to scan scouts. I'm ok with this and they do it very well. It is possible to dampen scouts to hide them, but doing so renders the suit very gimped and not competetive, especially if it isn't Gallente. The only issues I have are these. 1) The variant is only available at proto. This seems like a strange situation and I wonder if there should be an advanced version. 2) More importantly, it is too easy to use a focussed scanner to scan everyone, not just scouts. There isn't enough of a drawback to using a focussed scanner over another sort. There used to be a large drawback, which made the scanner balanced. Unlike other scanners, the focussed scanner only shares with your squad, not your whole team. The problem is, in PC your whole team is in one squad, and 8 players in FW. This effectively removes the major drawback in competetive matches. As much as I dislike this squad only mechanic, it was balanced and the removal of the drawback was unintended. Focussed scanners therefore need another drawback to balance this out. I suggest reducing focussed scanner range to about 60-70m. This ensures they are used as a scout counter, to pick up scouts who operate mainly at close range, and are less effective at the general recon which the other scanners are used for. The longer cooldown on it's own isn't enough of a drawback. |
Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 17:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Victor889 wrote:GalScout
just change to an undetectable suit? So according to you we should all play with one suit because it's the only one that can avoid scanners and still be decent enough ?
That's just proving my point even more.
Port it now !
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 18:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dear OP, can u change "perma scanning" in a subj and first post of this nice topic to "perma cloaking"? Please! Thank you!
Please support fair play!
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Union118
TH3 STRUGGL3
1
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Posted - 2015.12.06 18:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:Summa Militum wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:There are actually modules you can use to prevent getting scanned, they are called dampeners. They are a low slot item and they are purchasable to the public.
I have read this suggestion from other people and it is a very irrational and illogical suggestion. Take a moment and think about it. You have to skill into a specific suit and use nothing but scans for the effect you're talking about, it only stands to reason that your would have to take a specific measure to defeat it. Otherwise there would be no purpose in running a Gal. Logi with scans. Put on damps and go take out the guy who is scanning like anyone else with sense would do. Or pull out scans of your own. Or run a suit that isn't affected so much by being scanned. Run scans to level the playing field. So whine about it or do something on the field to counter it, either way I don't think it's going to change anything. The problem I have with people saying to equip Dampeners to combat Permascanning is that it only takes one person to force the entire enemy team to have to gimp their suit in order to avoid being scanned. One person should not have that much power. Permascanning should be a coordinated effort by multiple people. I think since the Scanner drawls energy from the Dropsuit in order for it to work then it should be made so that once a merc uses a scanner the cool down effect for the scanner applies to all scanners equipped. This will allow for people to equip different scanners for tactical purposes and forces permascanning to be achieved only when multiple people work together. Some very good points made. Ccp needs to implement that
Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
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Draux the Killer
Eternal Beings
2
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Posted - 2015.12.06 19:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
I use two scanners. focused and flux. gives me range but when there are scouts I can see them |
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.12.06 23:26:00 -
[49] - Quote
Every moment a person is using a scan he is not using a gun in his hand. Then again, he is a force multiplier for all the other gunwielders.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Search "KEROSKIN" for list of skins for sale!
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CUSE TOWN333
Capital Acquisitions LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.12.06 23:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Who gives a crap about being scanned when you got gungame. Less hideing more pew pew
actions speak louder then words.
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danthrax martin
Bad Blueberries
631
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Posted - 2015.12.06 23:53:00 -
[51] - Quote
I would soo much like to see no scans in the ambush modes. That's where I usually get perma scanned.
I thought K/D padding was better than Kotex.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2015.12.07 01:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Every moment a person is using a scan he is not using a gun in his hand. Then again, he is a force multiplier for all the other gunwielders. It would be cool if scans were up only while the scanner was out. Like a reptool. Good idea. +1
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Union118
TH3 STRUGGL3
1
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Posted - 2015.12.07 01:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Every moment a person is using a scan he is not using a gun in his hand. Then again, he is a force multiplier for all the other gunwielders. It would be cool if scans were up only while the scanner was out. Like a reptool. Good idea. +1 Thats a good idea. Add that to the implementations.
Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
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Genral69 death
Only Bitche's
902
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Posted - 2015.12.07 09:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Union118 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Every moment a person is using a scan he is not using a gun in his hand. Then again, he is a force multiplier for all the other gunwielders. It would be cool if scans were up only while the scanner was out. Like a reptool. Good idea. +1 Thats a good idea. Add that to the implementations. Terrible idea, altho being scanned is a real pain in the ass it's not a great WP builder, add to that that there scanner that's can show your enemy for up to 20 seconds. Alot can happen in 20 seconds meaning you could be killed by a alot of things that you cannot do anything about due to being handy capped in the scanning animation. Look at the reptool for example if you were to get rushed it takes acouple of seconds to switch to your weapon and shoot, giving you enemy an advanced even before the shooting begins.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Union118
TH3 STRUGGL3
1
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Posted - 2015.12.07 22:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Union118 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Every moment a person is using a scan he is not using a gun in his hand. Then again, he is a force multiplier for all the other gunwielders. It would be cool if scans were up only while the scanner was out. Like a reptool. Good idea. +1 Thats a good idea. Add that to the implementations. Terrible idea, altho being scanned is a real pain in the ass it's not a great WP builder, add to that that there scanner that's can show your enemy for up to 20 seconds. Alot can happen in 20 seconds meaning you could be killed by a alot of things that you cannot do anything about due to being handy capped in the scanning animation. Look at the reptool for example if you were to get rushed it takes acouple of seconds to switch to your weapon and shoot, giving you enemy an advanced even before the shooting begins. Right but a logi is always close to the front line while a scanner is almost always near the back end. I agree switching from equipment to weapon is a pain but that was made so cloakers cant be invisible while shooting.
Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
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