the new kick reductiion bonus on cal assaults doesnt seem strong enough. not nearly as strong as i'd like to see it. the difference between an unbonused RR and a bonused RR should be comparably obvious.

for example the clip size bonus on min assault is quite obvious with Cr compared to Cr on gal assault

or the new gal assault RoF bonus which is both visually and audibly noticeable.

when using the RR on cal assault, the kick reduction is not as pronounced as the other bonuses.

i'd like to go for 10% per level but 7% or 8% per level maybe enough. please look into this as the kick is still too much at range

Cause, nobody wants cal's to be an actual threat, that's why.

Ah sorry, I didn't just mean a threat, I meant actually viable for an FPS game standard, actually capable of doing what vet's tell ever you to do, PTFOs, Cal's never going to be competitive, not going to happen. Ever. Again.

What game are you all playing? The Cal Assault is the clear FOTM. Try fitting your suit different.

Lol, and yet there are still more Min, amarr, and Gal assault's on the battlefield compared to Cal. Don't even try that...

Gal Assaults sure, but Min and Amarr probably not. The CalAss bonus is good, especially considering they still have the reload bonus (which is definitely useful, coming from a Commando user.)

Right.... Cal isn't anywhere near FOTM, nothing Cal is, nor ever was. Cal still need's a lot of work to be viable to play the objective based game, otherwise, armor plating a cal is going to be the only way for them to be viable, which shouldn't be a thing.

They should change the bonus to spool time reduction of rail weaponry to 5% per level

I know I'm getting a bit off topic here, but It says in-game that Gallante assault suits get a 5% reduction to hip-fire kick and dispersion per level. Did that change somewhere? Because in my game it still says the above mentioned bonuses.


Now, to add to the discussion. The kick of the rail rifles is pretty bad, but that's also because the weapon has a tremendous amount of DPS, Range/Accuracy, and Damage per Mag (DPM). The kick is the weapons ONLY real drawback. To reduce the weapon's kick to an acceptable level ( I am agreeing that the kick on the RR is ridiculously high) is like trying to draw a fine line in the sand between balanced and downright broken. From my experience, however, I have found that the kick goes up over time as you fire the weapon. Perhaps a reduction in maximum kick and a reduction to wind up time is in order.

Right.... Cal isn't anywhere near FOTM, nothing Cal is, nor ever was. Cal still need's a lot of work to be viable to play the objective based game, otherwise, armor plating a cal is going to be the only way for them to be viable, which shouldn't be a thing.

They haven't updated the in game descriptions yet.

Despite what people say about the RR's DPS, or damage per mag, or even accuracy, the RR has the lowest damage output of all rifles. This is made up for by its range. What has NOT been looked at is weapon "accuracy". Accuracy is a combination of dispersion and recoil. We've asked for a more in depth explanation of how they relate and affect each other in the past.

What can be said now is that RR dispersion growth rate is neglible. It has almost no dispersion. It's recoil, however, is almost solely responsible for the RR perceived poor accuracy. It's so high that it range you end up missing shots even when trying to fire in controlled bursts. Even the officer RR is bad.

The goal is to have the RR's recoil low enough that you can empty 2/3 to 3/4 of the clip before you start missing shots due to recoil.

Something else to consider is reducing the penalties to dispersion or recoil due to movement. Trying to shoot right after sprinting will give the worst accuracy possible.

That's why I'd prefer it to be a charge time reduction to the RR specifically, like how it is on the Gallente's ROF bonus. Recoil should be the RR's only drawback on the suit, and to solve the issue the ability to feather the gun and shoot it fast enough so that we aren't always gimped by using it, prior to the RR's recoil dampening skill on the cal suit, the RR has (at least to my eye's and use) okay recoil, kinda feels like your firing a .308 out of scar H in another game I play.

The main issue with caldari weapon is charge time, and a skill on the assault that reduces that number, something that actually help's us, as a Gal's ROF bonus clearly helps them, that's what's actually needed as a Caldari Assault Bonus, not some recoil dampening skill that has no meaning if you can't charge it up fast enough to even deal damage, not something that where if your enemy is peeking around corners, and you cant damage him because hes slipping in and out.

Cal Assault's aren't OP, because if they were, a lot of player's would be wearing them more than the amarr or gallente, it is still extremely rare to see a Caldari yet alone a caldari assault and to say they're over powered is merely you trying to insist that the placebo given to us, is just you trying to insure that no matter what, that everywhere in the game, long range included, that armor still out powers shield's. And so far, I've seen, and done just that.

EDIT: And 1st of all because Kaizuka Sniper wear's a caldari assault, doesn't mean hes using it in CQC fights, more than likely hes using it for the reload bonus (In other word's for sniping, and its dampening power)

2nd, all because 1 guy decides to go 1 way, doesn't mean we should follow him around like hes actually important to us, he's another player, just like the rest of us, if he decides to go a certain direction with his SP sinks, doesn't mean squat to us and it shouldn't, it just mean's he's decided to go that way - In relation's to an older comment.

Gal bonus: Hip fire spread reduction & Rof= Spray and Pray they go great with each other!
Cal bonus: Faster reload&Recoil reduction= Longer range were kick is not a problem? Just let off te ******* trigger....Now reload is nice as cal is known for there low dt! So thats nice! but other that they really dont go compliment each other at 70m nothing is going to kill you..Snipers and forges dont count lol

if you have to switch between multiple targets, youll lose a lot of time due to the charge up delay. so you want to hold down the trigger for as long as you can manage. at longer range, the kick IS a problem

every time you let off the trigger youll suffer the charge up delay. 0.45 seconds is a couple hundred hp worth of free damage the enemy can do to you while charging up. if you pre charge or fire then youll have even less time to actually hit anything before kick gets out of control. you want less downtime? then not needing to let off the trigger every 28 rounds is the best way by reducing kick

add in that the RR dps is lower than other rifles and higher damage per shot means that you dont want shots missing as it can lead to targets escaping with 10 or 20 hp left.

Here's the thing, if recoil is heavy, that mean's you're going to miss a lot of shot's, feathering the gun firing 10-15 rounds per every, say, .20 second's, that still give's the enemy time to do damage, which is the main issue with the gun, and if that's still not enough, we can always nerf the magazine capacity and give it another draw back, I wouldn't mind, but that charge time really hurt's cal's bad, and almost give's people a free kill at CQC and allow me to state this once, the recoil may be bad, but by no mean's is this gun truly relegated to long range, it can be effective at CQC, the only reason you wouldn't WANT to bring into CQC, is because of it's ROF, but that's not the issue, CT is

Can you explain how the kick reduction doesn't make the gun more accurate? Also if you think that lowering the charge time by 25% is gonna make a difference you are sadly mistaken. 0.1 second is hardly gonna have any impact if at all.

the kick reduction odes make it more accurate, but not nearly enough. for it to be combat functional, you'd nearly need to make the RR on cal assault like the officer RR. or better yet, have not recoil at all. at least then we can fire on the move with total precision or make headshots or shots through cover possible at range. zero recoil also removes the need to stop firing, which means we wouldnt need a charge time reduction.

EDIT: i see no reason why we cant reduce charge time and kick all at once as a single bonus

Why should the gun have no recoil? Every other light rifle in the game has so why should the RR be an exception? You're trying to make out that the gun is useless when it's one of the best weapons in the game.

You are aware it got a kick reduction right? Also crouching reduces recoil and the RR is the best long range rifle bar the Sniper rifle.

If I can ads and fire almost the entire magazine on any suit I use and not worry about kick, how does the caldari assault not completely empty it without worrying about it at all?

Because they want to hipfire RR in CQC with a Cal assault. Thats the only situation where charge + kick becomes difficult to manage. At long ranges, such as 60, 70, 80 meters out or more, you have plenty of time to feather the trigger, and choose between multiple targets. 0.45 of a second charge up is not much of an issue for the standard RR, for the assualt version 0.3 seconds is even less.

I always have this idea since like amarr assault get a reduction to leaser, why don't caldari assault get a charge reduction to rail rifle making it more exclusive to the caldari assault only and the bonus thats is now on the caldari assault 5 percent to rail kick take that out and rather give the rail rifle a tweak its self in its recoil

@ DDx77: Which is why it would/should only be toward's the RR and it's variant only, just like the Gal's ROF bonus is only to the AR and it's variant's.

@ Anmol Singh: Yeah, but it'd be too good and would put the ARR out of business, which is why a fixed CT reduction of at least .05 per level would be nice, it'd make the ARR .05 in CT and would help it in CQC engagements, the RR would be at .20 second's helping it at longer range engagements and allows slight feathering of the rifle at long range engagements and would set it apart from everyone else that uses the RR's and the variant's, and would easily set it up for balancing if future variant's are on the table, since you'd be (logically speaking) balancing the weapon around the suit, rather than it's general use.

The Laser Rifle is a prime example of a weapon being balanced around the suit, and not it's general use.

So you literally want it so the ARR has a negligible charge time so it fires almost instantly?

I don't know how you think the charge time is that bad, when you're at range it isn't a problem. Up close. Sure. It's horrible, but it is supposed to be like that cos it can fire at full damage at 80m+.

@DeathwindRising: RR will never be a great CQC weapon so long as it's ROF remain's the same, and therefore will still make it a bad CQC weapon in general, .20 seconds maybe not be a long time, but it's still enough time to die in a Cal Assault suit, regardless of Tier, long range or not.

@Echo 1991: ARR had it's nerf in range, and can only ever get a kill in the 50-60 meter's range (damage mods not included), the gun was essentially made for CQC engagements anyhow, as it was originally intended, the original range was just an unsightly hick-up. Now that it's been nerfed, it can see a bit of a change and become a very decent weapon, and hey if it is OP, just knock it's damage down by 2 from basic to proto.

@DeathwindRising #2: Mind you, that EVE logic hasn't worked so far, not that I'm saying to throw it all away, but minor change's have been made for game balancing, currently, the game is too much far into nothing but CQC engagements anyway, if there were more map's where the enemy where in more open space's around an objective, I'd never look to, or suggest a CT reduction in the first place, seeing as how there's not, it only make's sense to adapt and make the appropriate change's as need be.

@Daemonn Adima: Because armor based suit's don't use shield's, Amarr, Gallente, and Minmatar, can be the most proficient with Damage Modifier's alone, Armor mod's themselves are so powerful that people tend to overlook certain thing's, at range the RR would have easily lost most of it's damage and in it's stead, does a steady amount of damage overtime, fact is, at range, it's "Power" is negligible at best, unless once more, you're using damage modifier's (2 or more).

Armor based player's can see the use of the RR more significantly than a Caldari can, unless they sacrifice shield related modules for damage mod's, and in exchange use ARMOR mod's to compensate, how does that sound Caldari in anyway?

I'm so tired of people attacking this suit and weapon combo for literally no other reason than they don't use it or they don't find it fun. All of these guys can be heard in squad constantly bitching about being killed by the one rail rifle guy instead of bitcching about how they were torn apart by an ar or acr. It almost feels like blatant shilling on behalf of every other suit/weapon combo in the game. To be clear, I have all of the assault suits to five and the Gallente bonus is much more effective. My Assault G-1 with stacked Krin's and an Exile has been my go-to cheap suit for a while now since it can literally take out proto suits without me even breaking a sweat. It's that powerful. Meanwhile, I've been running cal assault for as long as I can remember and the new kick/recoil reduction is negligible, you can only really notice it for the the first second of you firing and after that it becomes a shaky mess just like with all the other suits. Do me a favor and go use an ar on a non-bonused suit, then a full skilled gal assault. Now use a rr on a non-bonused suit and then on a max skill cal assault, tell me which one is actually noticeable.

That's because everyone hate's caldari, hate's to see them work efficiently, love's to kill them easily, thus why (off-topic) you see so many jumper suit explosive suit's, it's easy to do, and doesn't take much skill, it's not like you're choosing when to jump, they just jump whenever they can and it's easy to dodge bullet's, because the HTD doesn't tracking moving target's well, and this is coming from a Sniper, who has shot them and gotten nothing but a blue shield authentication, but no damage.

Partially off-topic: People will always hate a possibly strong combo, but if it's racial it's fine, case in point your AR dilemma, the moment it get's nerfed down to a 10% bonus, people will probably stop using it and go back to use the RR or ACR, an armor(suit)/anti armor (weapon) combo, which is something you definitely don't want in the future. I'd rather they keep that 15%, just so that other suit's can also get a decent bonus.

On-topic: Which is why I am in fact fighting so hard for this Cal Assault bonus change.

@DeathwindRising: I like how you flipped my comment, well played, however, I was never concerned with the RR's CQC abilities I was merely stating fact's about the weapon, I never use the RR base in CQC so I try and use the BP, get a few lucky shot's in, or run to my allies and let them take out some armor player who's chasing me.

But, and read this well, when you shoot long range, at time's, the gap between cover's is very marginal, meaning your enemies can encroach on you very quickly and very easily, especially if their 70m's away from you, the end goal would be to wipe him out before he reaches that 40 meter mark, cause then unless you did enough damage, you're pretty much boned if he's a jumper or still has 600+ armor left, heaven forbid the hit detection work's when he's shaking left and right, best to get him when he's coming towards you from a distance.

The ARR on the other hand, that's officially the CQB gun, sure it can kill at 70 meter's, AT, but at best you'll do what I refer to was scratch damage, or Laser rifle damage, unlike the RR which can kill very quickly and is a decisive battle weapon, the ARR at range (unless your using damage mod's or a Calmando) will essentially be almost (ALMOST) useless, at 70-80 meter's it's more of a finishing weapon, than a killing weapon, but in CQC the gun can be very effective in the right hand's, but the short comings for the ARR (example template's not complaint's):

#1 ROF - Love the rof though it's perfect for feathering in my opinion, but being behind also mean's less damage output, which is fair by all mean's since it's a railgun weapon (Off Topic: and also the fact I played and loved a game called Section 8:The Game, and Section 8 Prejudice, and in other game's I'll always prefer a controllable, accurate, slowing firing weapon, over a gun that shoot's 1000 rounds per minute, though I am not against it, if it's in the weapon's natural nature)

#2 Damage - Decent at best until it comes across a high armor fit in CQC, then it becomes an actual challenge (which is unfair for shield player's, unless you're a minmatar assault)

#3 Range - The nerf was a given, as I still felt at that time it was a bit unfair to be able to kill enemies 80m+ with an assault model weapon

#4 CT - The charge time being the reason why you wouldn't want to go into CQC at all with the ARR, .30 seconds may not seem like a long time, but when you're trying to help your team, you want to be in the fray as fast as possible and firing your gun, just as quickly.

Thus why I (and many others) would rather have a fixed CT reduction, rather than a recoil reduction, recoil's part of any weapon, and reducing it only truly benefit's the base RR and not all the variant's. Naturally is they buffed up the recoil on the RR and the bonus on the Cal, then I wouldn't have much of a problem, with the recoil reduction skill.

Be it a ROF bonus (Gal), an increased firing time (Amarr), or more bullet's (Min), there should be a definitive difference between the race's that can be seen right off the bat, otherwise, it just wouldn't be fair.

Case and end point: If Kaizuka is a suit it is FOTM, and he is most definitely CalAssing

Yes, with an ARR I want to be better capable at closer ranges, but with the RR I'd want to be able to fire at a target I see at 50+ meters, much faster than any player in a suit that's not Caldari Assault, mind you to me anything below 30meter's is CQC range, and for me 50-70 meter's is the preferred range to shoot, and at a distance at least to me .45 second's is a very long time to shoot at an enemy that's moving between cover.

Also I like you're play style, show's that we're both really different in the way we use Cal's, however, the Recoil bonus is only beneficial to those who don't like feathering a weapon, which is a necessity with real world weapon's and various other video games, and also promotes players to just sit there and dump ammo, hoping to score a kill.

Now I understand that player's have like a near limitless supply of ammo, so lack of ammo hardly becomes the issue, but that's not a gameplay style we should be promoting, especially if the weapon itself get's rebalanced down the way for whatever reason.

Once more, longer firing times isn't the answer, it's faster firing times, faster you can shoot the first bullet with any gun, likelier the chances of surviving with some HP left. Where as with a recoil reduction, you may end up canceling each other out, or worst, if you're shield tanking and your enemies armor tanking (slot values and use), you'll end up losing before the armor does (with or without strafing).

Lastly, I know this part doesn't matter very much since it's a sci fi game (and you don't have to answer this), but how exactly is the Caldari reducing the recoil of the RR/ARR? A recoil reduction is something I'd expect a Minmatar to have, since they use Exo-skeleton's and what not.