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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
303
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Posted - 2015.11.10 05:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cause, nobody wants cal's to be an actual threat, that's why.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
303
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Posted - 2015.11.10 06:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ah sorry, I didn't just mean a threat, I meant actually viable for an FPS game standard, actually capable of doing what vet's tell ever you to do, PTFOs, Cal's never going to be competitive, not going to happen. Ever. Again.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
303
|
Posted - 2015.11.11 03:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Taskanoss wrote:What game are you all playing? The Cal Assault is the clear FOTM. Try fitting your suit different.
Lol, and yet there are still more Min, amarr, and Gal assault's on the battlefield compared to Cal. Don't even try that...
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
304
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Posted - 2015.11.11 04:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Taskanoss wrote:What game are you all playing? The Cal Assault is the clear FOTM. Try fitting your suit different. Lol, and yet there are still more Min, amarr, and Gal assault's on the battlefield compared to Cal. Don't even try that... Gal Assaults sure, but Min and Amarr probably not. The CalAss bonus is good, especially considering they still have the reload bonus (which is definitely useful, coming from a Commando user.)
Right.... Cal isn't anywhere near FOTM, nothing Cal is, nor ever was. Cal still need's a lot of work to be viable to play the objective based game, otherwise, armor plating a cal is going to be the only way for them to be viable, which shouldn't be a thing.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
305
|
Posted - 2015.11.12 20:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's why I'd prefer it to be a charge time reduction to the RR specifically, like how it is on the Gallente's ROF bonus. Recoil should be the RR's only drawback on the suit, and to solve the issue the ability to feather the gun and shoot it fast enough so that we aren't always gimped by using it, prior to the RR's recoil dampening skill on the cal suit, the RR has (at least to my eye's and use) okay recoil, kinda feels like your firing a .308 out of scar H in another game I play.
The main issue with caldari weapon is charge time, and a skill on the assault that reduces that number, something that actually help's us, as a Gal's ROF bonus clearly helps them, that's what's actually needed as a Caldari Assault Bonus, not some recoil dampening skill that has no meaning if you can't charge it up fast enough to even deal damage, not something that where if your enemy is peeking around corners, and you cant damage him because hes slipping in and out.
Cal Assault's aren't OP, because if they were, a lot of player's would be wearing them more than the amarr or gallente, it is still extremely rare to see a Caldari yet alone a caldari assault and to say they're over powered is merely you trying to insist that the placebo given to us, is just you trying to insure that no matter what, that everywhere in the game, long range included, that armor still out powers shield's. And so far, I've seen, and done just that.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
306
|
Posted - 2015.11.13 20:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Garcon lyfe wrote:Gal bonus: Hip fire spread reduction & Rof= Spray and Pray they go great with each other!
Cal bonus: Faster reload&Recoil reduction= Longer range were kick is not a problem? Just let off te ******* trigger....Now reload is nice as cal is known for there low dt! So thats nice! but other that they really dont go compliment each other at 70m nothing is going to kill you..Snipers and forges dont count lol if you have to switch between multiple targets, youll lose a lot of time due to the charge up delay. so you want to hold down the trigger for as long as you can manage. at longer range, the kick IS a problem every time you let off the trigger youll suffer the charge up delay. 0.45 seconds is a couple hundred hp worth of free damage the enemy can do to you while charging up. if you pre charge or fire then youll have even less time to actually hit anything before kick gets out of control. you want less downtime? then not needing to let off the trigger every 28 rounds is the best way by reducing kick add in that the RR dps is lower than other rifles and higher damage per shot means that you dont want shots missing as it can lead to targets escaping with 10 or 20 hp left.
Here's the thing, if recoil is heavy, that mean's you're going to miss a lot of shot's, feathering the gun firing 10-15 rounds per every, say, .20 second's, that still give's the enemy time to do damage, which is the main issue with the gun, and if that's still not enough, we can always nerf the magazine capacity and give it another draw back, I wouldn't mind, but that charge time really hurt's cal's bad, and almost give's people a free kill at CQC and allow me to state this once, the recoil may be bad, but by no mean's is this gun truly relegated to long range, it can be effective at CQC, the only reason you wouldn't WANT to bring into CQC, is because of it's ROF, but that's not the issue, CT is
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
309
|
Posted - 2015.11.20 21:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Problem 1: Is, RR's are used and capable of being used by everyone, but the assault's each have a bonus that truly benefit's them and helps them stay in combat and remain a threat.
Example 1: Amarr's laser heat reduction - less heat applied to the weapon when firing, allowing more shot's to be used (go ahead and complain about the nerf, there really wasn't a nerf to the heat per shot, just more recoil to the base, and less range on the assault). Make's the laser rifle PERFECT in the hand's of an amarr assault
Example 2: Minmatar Extended Magazine - Self explanatory, more ammo, more bullet's, more damage to be possibly applied, even if its 25%, you're still looking at 17 more bullets in the assault combat rifle and 13 more in the base model. (SMG are irrelevant since we're talking about rifle's, not sidearm weapon's)
Example 3: Gallente Hipfire control - Once more self explanatory, capable of greater hipfiring capabilities, meaning you don't have to aim down the sight's but simply fire your gun at a decent distance, and pretty much blow away the competition (if hit detection isn't interfering with the gameplay of course, or if your skilled enough just switch weapons to finish off the individual, either case, it's use remains the same) . I'm not going to bother explaining about the ROF bonus, its physically and audibly self explanatory.
Everything you see here, for the 3 race's I've given an example of, each of their bonus' allow more possible DPS (in min's case significantly) allow's for more shot's, or better faster accurate shooting, they all give their native rifle more chance's than a recoil bonus would ever allow, meaningful bonus', and no doubt in my mind, when the min's and amarr's get their 3rd bonus' they're gonna be even more powerful than what some recoil bonus can be (and not because they might give a high percentage bonus)
Problem 2: Most fight's with an RR always comes down to who can fire the longest without getting too much recoil, yes this one instance, the cal's bonus might come into effect, but fact is, any skilled player is going to stop shooting, and restart the firing sequence all over again, so anyone in an high armor fit, pretty much negate's the intended drawback of the weapon. Which is why we wanted a charge time reduction, so that we can go up against high armor fit player's at long distance and fire first, first shot's don't always win a battle, but doing so allows us option's, option's we'd never be able to get with a recoil reduction.
(And to be 100% sure you all understand, we want the Cal Assault to be a charge time reduction on the RR, just like the Gal get's a specific ROF bonus on their assault's, that way, it'd be fair to both race's).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2015.12.05 19:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:You are aware it got a kick reduction right? Also crouching reduces recoil and the RR is the best long range rifle bar the Sniper rifle.
If I can ads and fire almost the entire magazine on any suit I use and not worry about kick, how does the caldari assault not completely empty it without worrying about it at all? Because they want to hipfire RR in CQC with a Cal assault. Thats the only situation where charge + kick becomes difficult to manage. At long ranges, such as 60, 70, 80 meters out or more, you have plenty of time to feather the trigger, and choose between multiple targets. 0.45 of a second charge up is not much of an issue for the standard RR, for the assualt version 0.3 seconds is even less.
So, the argument here, is that you don't want the RR, to be used in CQC with the cal assault, but the RR already has horrid hipfiring AND has a slow rate of fire, further reducing its CQC effectivity.....
What about the ARR though? A gun now MEANT for CQC engagements? If the Magsec can shoot .03 seconds, .027 seconds earlier than a ARR, why can't we receive a bonus for that weapon? A gun now nerfed, and at this current time would be perfect for a Cal assault bonus change towards CT to improve its CQC ability, I'd rather it be a fixed number rather than a % number, since a % number would either end up making it or breaking it, a fixed number is easier to change than a percent number, due to there being sweet spot's between certain number's.
at least, .25 CT reduction (.05 per level), this would allow the RR .20 seconds charge time on a Cal Assault, and an ARR .05 (closer to the magsec SMG). And before anyone start's, even if the RR is .20 seconds in charge time on a cal assault the ARR would still be a better choice in CQC because of this, because most people have variable patience and even then (once again) the RR is terrible at CQC for it's charge time and low rate of fire, any gun can out DPS it in CQC, just by spraying and praying alone (looking at you CR, AR, ACR, BAR).
Furthermore, this is still about helping to makesure there's an actual difference between a non Cal Assault user, and an actual Cal Assault user. (The Difference's is seen and audible by the Gal, and Min assault, and clearly seen, by the Amarr in their own racial weapon use).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
315
|
Posted - 2015.12.11 21:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
@ DDx77: Which is why it would/should only be toward's the RR and it's variant only, just like the Gal's ROF bonus is only to the AR and it's variant's.
@ Anmol Singh: Yeah, but it'd be too good and would put the ARR out of business, which is why a fixed CT reduction of at least .05 per level would be nice, it'd make the ARR .05 in CT and would help it in CQC engagements, the RR would be at .20 second's helping it at longer range engagements and allows slight feathering of the rifle at long range engagements and would set it apart from everyone else that uses the RR's and the variant's, and would easily set it up for balancing if future variant's are on the table, since you'd be (logically speaking) balancing the weapon around the suit, rather than it's general use.
The Laser Rifle is a prime example of a weapon being balanced around the suit, and not it's general use.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
|
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
319
|
Posted - 2015.12.14 19:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
@DeathwindRising: RR will never be a great CQC weapon so long as it's ROF remain's the same, and therefore will still make it a bad CQC weapon in general, .20 seconds maybe not be a long time, but it's still enough time to die in a Cal Assault suit, regardless of Tier, long range or not.
@Echo 1991: ARR had it's nerf in range, and can only ever get a kill in the 50-60 meter's range (damage mods not included), the gun was essentially made for CQC engagements anyhow, as it was originally intended, the original range was just an unsightly hick-up. Now that it's been nerfed, it can see a bit of a change and become a very decent weapon, and hey if it is OP, just knock it's damage down by 2 from basic to proto.
@DeathwindRising #2: Mind you, that EVE logic hasn't worked so far, not that I'm saying to throw it all away, but minor change's have been made for game balancing, currently, the game is too much far into nothing but CQC engagements anyway, if there were more map's where the enemy where in more open space's around an objective, I'd never look to, or suggest a CT reduction in the first place, seeing as how there's not, it only make's sense to adapt and make the appropriate change's as need be.
@Daemonn Adima: Because armor based suit's don't use shield's, Amarr, Gallente, and Minmatar, can be the most proficient with Damage Modifier's alone, Armor mod's themselves are so powerful that people tend to overlook certain thing's, at range the RR would have easily lost most of it's damage and in it's stead, does a steady amount of damage overtime, fact is, at range, it's "Power" is negligible at best, unless once more, you're using damage modifier's (2 or more).
Armor based player's can see the use of the RR more significantly than a Caldari can, unless they sacrifice shield related modules for damage mod's, and in exchange use ARMOR mod's to compensate, how does that sound Caldari in anyway?
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
323
|
Posted - 2015.12.17 22:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
@DeathwindRising: I like how you flipped my comment, well played, however, I was never concerned with the RR's CQC abilities I was merely stating fact's about the weapon, I never use the RR base in CQC so I try and use the BP, get a few lucky shot's in, or run to my allies and let them take out some armor player who's chasing me.
But, and read this well, when you shoot long range, at time's, the gap between cover's is very marginal, meaning your enemies can encroach on you very quickly and very easily, especially if their 70m's away from you, the end goal would be to wipe him out before he reaches that 40 meter mark, cause then unless you did enough damage, you're pretty much boned if he's a jumper or still has 600+ armor left, heaven forbid the hit detection work's when he's shaking left and right, best to get him when he's coming towards you from a distance.
The ARR on the other hand, that's officially the CQB gun, sure it can kill at 70 meter's, AT, but at best you'll do what I refer to was scratch damage, or Laser rifle damage, unlike the RR which can kill very quickly and is a decisive battle weapon, the ARR at range (unless your using damage mod's or a Calmando) will essentially be almost (ALMOST) useless, at 70-80 meter's it's more of a finishing weapon, than a killing weapon, but in CQC the gun can be very effective in the right hand's, but the short comings for the ARR (example template's not complaint's):
#1 ROF - Love the rof though it's perfect for feathering in my opinion, but being behind also mean's less damage output, which is fair by all mean's since it's a railgun weapon (Off Topic: and also the fact I played and loved a game called Section 8:The Game, and Section 8 Prejudice, and in other game's I'll always prefer a controllable, accurate, slowing firing weapon, over a gun that shoot's 1000 rounds per minute, though I am not against it, if it's in the weapon's natural nature)
#2 Damage - Decent at best until it comes across a high armor fit in CQC, then it becomes an actual challenge (which is unfair for shield player's, unless you're a minmatar assault)
#3 Range - The nerf was a given, as I still felt at that time it was a bit unfair to be able to kill enemies 80m+ with an assault model weapon
#4 CT - The charge time being the reason why you wouldn't want to go into CQC at all with the ARR, .30 seconds may not seem like a long time, but when you're trying to help your team, you want to be in the fray as fast as possible and firing your gun, just as quickly.
Thus why I (and many others) would rather have a fixed CT reduction, rather than a recoil reduction, recoil's part of any weapon, and reducing it only truly benefit's the base RR and not all the variant's. Naturally is they buffed up the recoil on the RR and the bonus on the Cal, then I wouldn't have much of a problem, with the recoil reduction skill.
Be it a ROF bonus (Gal), an increased firing time (Amarr), or more bullet's (Min), there should be a definitive difference between the race's that can be seen right off the bat, otherwise, it just wouldn't be fair.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
323
|
Posted - 2015.12.17 23:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stupid Blueberry wrote:I'm so tired of people attacking this suit and weapon combo for literally no other reason than they don't use it or they don't find it fun. All of these guys can be heard in squad constantly bitching about being killed by the one rail rifle guy instead of bitcching about how they were torn apart by an ar or acr. It almost feels like blatant shilling on behalf of every other suit/weapon combo in the game. To be clear, I have all of the assault suits to five and the Gallente bonus is much more effective. My Assault G-1 with stacked Krin's and an Exile has been my go-to cheap suit for a while now since it can literally take out proto suits without me even breaking a sweat. It's that powerful. Meanwhile, I've been running cal assault for as long as I can remember and the new kick/recoil reduction is negligible, you can only really notice it for the the first second of you firing and after that it becomes a shaky mess just like with all the other suits. Do me a favor and go use an ar on a non-bonused suit, then a full skilled gal assault. Now use a rr on a non-bonused suit and then on a max skill cal assault, tell me which one is actually noticeable.
That's because everyone hate's caldari, hate's to see them work efficiently, love's to kill them easily, thus why (off-topic) you see so many jumper suit explosive suit's, it's easy to do, and doesn't take much skill, it's not like you're choosing when to jump, they just jump whenever they can and it's easy to dodge bullet's, because the HTD doesn't tracking moving target's well, and this is coming from a Sniper, who has shot them and gotten nothing but a blue shield authentication, but no damage.
Partially off-topic: People will always hate a possibly strong combo, but if it's racial it's fine, case in point your AR dilemma, the moment it get's nerfed down to a 10% bonus, people will probably stop using it and go back to use the RR or ACR, an armor(suit)/anti armor (weapon) combo, which is something you definitely don't want in the future. I'd rather they keep that 15%, just so that other suit's can also get a decent bonus.
On-topic: Which is why I am in fact fighting so hard for this Cal Assault bonus change.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
324
|
Posted - 2015.12.19 20:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yes, with an ARR I want to be better capable at closer ranges, but with the RR I'd want to be able to fire at a target I see at 50+ meters, much faster than any player in a suit that's not Caldari Assault, mind you to me anything below 30meter's is CQC range, and for me 50-70 meter's is the preferred range to shoot, and at a distance at least to me .45 second's is a very long time to shoot at an enemy that's moving between cover.
Also I like you're play style, show's that we're both really different in the way we use Cal's, however, the Recoil bonus is only beneficial to those who don't like feathering a weapon, which is a necessity with real world weapon's and various other video games, and also promotes players to just sit there and dump ammo, hoping to score a kill.
Now I understand that player's have like a near limitless supply of ammo, so lack of ammo hardly becomes the issue, but that's not a gameplay style we should be promoting, especially if the weapon itself get's rebalanced down the way for whatever reason.
Once more, longer firing times isn't the answer, it's faster firing times, faster you can shoot the first bullet with any gun, likelier the chances of surviving with some HP left. Where as with a recoil reduction, you may end up canceling each other out, or worst, if you're shield tanking and your enemies armor tanking (slot values and use), you'll end up losing before the armor does (with or without strafing).
Lastly, I know this part doesn't matter very much since it's a sci fi game (and you don't have to answer this), but how exactly is the Caldari reducing the recoil of the RR/ARR? A recoil reduction is something I'd expect a Minmatar to have, since they use Exo-skeleton's and what not.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
326
|
Posted - 2015.12.21 23:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Except that, shield damage threshold was never actually meant to be viable in the first place, but simply implemented to stop enemies from plinking our shields with an SMG, cover on the other hand, also mean's if you're in say, on domination where the red line is pretty much your safe zone, while enemies jump down to alpha, is pretty much sometimes useless to use an RR if your allies aren't competent enough (and mostly aren't) to stay down below and protect alpha, let alone if their competent enough to take Alpha from the vantage points inside the building, if they don't, you're pretty much useless overall.
If however they ARE competent enough at protecting the objective, then you've gotten a very nice high traffic area to keep the enemies out of, but you'll mostly be reloading between each kill, if the enemies are stacking armor, and they're using AR's, SCR's, or, CR's, you'll always be advantageous, however if there are multiple target's, you need to reload quickly after a few kills (easily done), and fire once again, which is the main issue, even with the recoil reduction, the weapon will still kick after a few shot's, and the weapon shake will also knock you off the targets sometimes (visual effect, not actual recoil pattern of the gun), the shake get's worst as the gun is fired, making the recoil reduction ineffective and therefore you'd have to recharge the weapon anyway.
That's why I say a CT reduction will be better, since you'd have to recharge the gun multiple times, for the best results. Aside from that, also need to remember that even if we're shield suit's, a lot of the time we don't HAVE a choice but to get into the fray, which is where the ARR comes in. In some map's say, the cylindrical orbital sweep of death map, where 1 location is the best place for an orbital, we don't have a choice BUT to get into the fray, mostly because we either don't have an armor fit, or a heavy, or because all we had was the SP for the RR, nanohives, grenade's, the suit, and the modules. A lot of player's, may not have much else.
So if anything, at least give them a chance with the CT bonus, allowing them to fire quicker so they can be of help to their allies. (Remember we're with our allies now, not alone, so weather or not shield's survives, is solely based on how long our allies do).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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