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Shadowed Cola
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.10.28 00:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
The thing is, this very concept was brought up before, specifically this idea, but with a different mechanic in mind.
It was an equipment slot jetpack that was literally a jet pack using DS mechanics. When activated, it put you in a third person hub mode, and you could for a time, choose where you flew.
No melee punch included.
it really didn't need it to make everyone cry foul play.
The only reason Jump Mods make sense to me is because you're giving up 3 slots to do it, if anything, there should be an armor reducing penalty put in with the Mifo's.
Making it into an equipment instead doesn't really touch upon the issue that it's existence causes incredible lag and issues with rendering that too many players take advantage of. And with the current meta of weapons, getting to high points will just be a more do-all option.
I'm just against the existence of anything aiding roof-top-camping until a height limit on Uplinks is placed. |
Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 02:29:00 -
[32] - Quote
@Shadowed Cola Again, please read the balance factors in the original post.
Quote:Balance Factors:
-Scouts get a pg fitting bonus to MSDs. -Scouts can fit both a MSD and a cloak thus removing the ability of cloaked super punches from min scouts/
-Logis use their equipment fitting bonus for the MSD -As EQ the MSD gives the logi a buff by allowing them to improve high slot tank or ewar while retaining increased mobility with the MSD to navigate map and lay hives/links.
-Assaults and commandos do not get a fitting bonus so they are required to fit pg modules in high slots (similar to myo blue bottles in high slots) in order to fit a MSD while retaining decent fitting space for weapons and low slot modules. -The usefulness of map navigation with a MSD to an assault or commando means they must sacrifice their 1 EQ slot which in the current meta is filled with a scanner, compact nano, allotek nano, or various uplinks. Removing this enhances the support role of logis for their team who may carry multiple equipment in addition a MSD.
-Sentinels will continue to not have an EQ slot. All suit tiers would get a jump height buff that allows them to clear rails without a need for modules or EQ.
By using the existing cloak activation mechanics (which trigger a timed use of enhanced jump and melee power) there is no need for devs to create a 3rd person jet pack--which as you've highlighted would likely be too taxing on dev resources to build and optimize for the PS3.
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 03:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
Not Jadek Menahiem wrote: If a saboteur can take down a low flying dropship with knives and good timing, that would make for great video.
From another perspective, improved power jumps also assist teams extracting. Imagine a friendly pilot is approaching and the LZ is too hot for a landing extraction. The squad activates their MSDs, launch into the air, and mash circle as they get close to incoming dropship.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Grimm Yin
Rogue Instincts Evil Syndicate Alliance.
11
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Posted - 2015.10.28 04:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think they just need to do something about the explosive spam, a penalty to damage to mass,plasma, and remotes or something like that, if they have "x" amount of myos on, I myself only use the myos for sniping for traversing. |
SILENTSAM 69
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
806
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Posted - 2015.10.28 04:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bad idea. It works properly how it is. All your limbs get stronger, legs and arms.
There is nothing wrong with people jumping. It has added to the vertical gameplay.
It also helps set DUSt apart from other shooters in allowing the most versatile and customizable player types. |
SILENTSAM 69
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
806
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Posted - 2015.10.28 04:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Grimm Yin wrote:I think they just need to do something about the explosive spam, a penalty to damage to mass,plasma, and remotes or something like that, if they have "x" amount of myos on, I myself only use the myos for sniping for traversing. WHy should they restrict this legitimate tactic that helps balance? |
Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 04:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Bad idea. It works properly how it is. All your limbs get stronger, legs and arms.
There is nothing wrong with people jumping. It has added to the vertical gameplay.
It also helps set DUSt apart from other shooters in allowing the most versatile and customizable player types. You still have lots of vertical gameplay with this--even more so.
Let me reiterate once again.
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Cesar Geronimo wrote:Why is everyone so hellbent on making this complicated? It's really not complicated. This is a possible solution which makes power jump and melee; -a tactical tool -levels disparity between new players and vets in terms of access to map mobility -allows devs to offer different variations of jump height while not having to contend with bugged stacking penalties -can be realistically implemented with a hotfix -eliminates cloak punching by scouts -reigns in the ability of melee commando to spam melee without end while not affecting the balance of other biotic modules--that in turn affect new vs old player power differences.
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SILENTSAM 69
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
808
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Posted - 2015.10.28 05:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
Oh I get all that. I just think there is no need to change it. It is fine how it is.
Making it go in the equipment slot is a big problem though. It prevents people from jumping and shooting. If you eliminate that you take away the fun and the balance.
As far as I am concerned Scouts and other non-Heavy classes have always needed some help. WHenever the scouts get something everyone freaks out and demands a nerf. Even the cloak they got hardly cloaks them. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Four Horseman Tactical Agency
2
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Posted - 2015.10.28 05:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:I really don't need to convince them.
*lights a cyno to devs on Skype* It bothers me that you feel like you could influence the game just because you skype with the dev's as you so eloquently put it and this also leads me to believe that's why this game is so stagnant as well as issues that help this game remain stagnant , isn't attended to like matchmaking to bring greater balance in pub matches but given attention to " non-issues " that are created by people that really have nothing better to do then mess with mechanics that really don't need screwing with at all .
If you or people like yourself , has any influence upon the DEV's in concerns with such then it's safe to say that this game is dead or will die because of the influence of those who hold podcasts or make vids all because of this , instead of a concerted effort and it's no surprise that all those who agree are " friends " of the OP .
It's not broke so what needs fixing or better yet why .?. because you've ran bio fits lately .?. Rom ( I forgot how it's spelled , no offense but I'm sure that most of you already knows who I'm talking about ) has been running bio fits for sometime now and if anyone should be consulted it should be him among others who are proliferate in such matters , this just seems like someone who is trying to mold the game into how they want it and if CCP allows this then that's dangerous and foolish , all because you talk to them on skype during podcasts .
It's not like this is something that's needed like matchmaking .
It's not like bio fits are game breaking .
Now I see why players are trying to place limits on spawn placement , your trying to tailor the game into what you want it to be and your saying " screw everyone else " and if CCP condones this then their saying the same and that certain people in the community has control over what happens or what goes on in this game instead of what's best for the game and the community at large .
This thread should have been locked right after that statement .
The fact that you would boast such is dangerous to the health of the game and the community at large .
It leads me to believe that this game is stagnate because of outside intervention such as you yourself mentioned .
No one should feel that they have that type of power and CCP should put you in your place for that statement but I'm sure they will not because like you said , all you have to do is talk with them on skype .
Thanks for letting me know that you have them in your back pocket , just turns me off even more and leads me to believe that this game is going nowhere .
Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2015.10.28 05:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Look, changing the jumping mechanics such that the full jump requires a charge and takes up twice the stamina, while retaining the regular jump and stamina minimizes abuses while still allowing for the extra mobility when wanted.
This has been suggested several times by different people and is the best option.
Making it EQ is unnecessary, ineloquent, and much more cumbersome. It isn't a good idea. Question. Are you using a gamepad or kb/m as your preferred input? DS4
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 05:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Thanks for letting me know that you have them in your back pocket , just turns me off even more and leads me to believe that this game is going nowhere . I've got no one in my pocket. CCP is going to design the game however they see fit. There are many ways to reach out to devs.
Dust forums, Twitter, Trello, Reddit, Slack, Skype, IRC, etc.
[email protected]
https://trello.com/b/8PvubQrN/dust-514-community-crowdsourcing
reach out, Devs are people. They are interested in hearing from players who are passionate about games, communities, and building features. If you have something to share, design a proposal and submit it to them.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 05:56:00 -
[42] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui, that name sounds familiar.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.10.28 05:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
FISTED
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 06:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Making it go in the equipment slot is a big problem though. It prevents people from jumping and shooting. If you eliminate that you take away the fun and the balance.
As far as I am concerned Scouts and other non-Heavy classes have always needed some help. WHenever the scouts get something everyone freaks out and demands a nerf. Even the cloak they got hardly cloaks them. The current proposal I've laid out still lets you shoot while in an enhanced jump. You activate the module, press x to jump, tap to swap to your primary and fire while airborne. However, by swapping to your primary from your EQ you deplete any remaining power in the EQ. This means you must wait until the module recharges to at least 50% power until you can use another jump attack/retreat.
This makes the jump a calculated tactical tool. New players have access to the same jump height as do veterans. Players who have invested skillpoints in the module have a faster recharge rate.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 09:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:It bothers me that you feel like you could influence the game just because you skype with the dev's as you so eloquently put it and this also leads me to believe that's why this game is so stagnant as well as issues that help this game remain stagnant , isn't attended to like matchmaking to bring greater balance in pub matches but given attention to " non-issues " that are created by people that really have nothing better to do then mess with mechanics that really don't need screwing with at all . Speaking of balance, can I get your thoughts on equalizing jump and melee power across tiers (mlt, basic, adv. pro)?
OP wrote:This proposal also equalizes jump and melee power across tiers--reducing disparity between new and old players. Players have equal access to jump height, but skill investment into the equipment allows quicker recharge time.
Please explain to me how that is a bad thing.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 09:18:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:I can't think of any Shooter with a jump pack/double jump/jet pack/[other increased jump height thing] that uses anything more than the game's jump button for usage. How many shooters out there are like Dust? The modular fitting system makes this game a complex beast to balance. As I've outlined in the OP, moving myo jumping/melee to an active equipment approach help address many balance issues and allows devs to introduce more variations of jumps with reduced development costs (which is a key factor with current team resources).
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Cesar Geronimo
DUST University Ivy League
128
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Posted - 2015.10.28 12:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Cesar Geronimo wrote:Why is everyone so hellbent on making this complicated? Keep everything the way it is and add a modifier that adds increasing weapon spread for those who shoot and jump so they won't hit anything farther than 10m away... AOE splash weapons be like
With no accuracy beyond 10m? Maybe if an enemy player is crouched in a corner... |
jordy mack
WarRavens Imperium Eden
826
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Posted - 2015.10.28 12:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:If you ( the guy who runs around with equipment in hand punching people to death ) wants this, I have nothing but suspicion if it's coming from you lol.
subtle try for a shield buff for jumpy punchers. smooth jadek very smooth... ;)
Less QQ more PewPew
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Four Horseman Tactical Agency
2
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Posted - 2015.10.28 13:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
All I'm saying is that it just seems that you've ran bio suits for a couple of weeks and came to the conclusion of ..... ( meaning whatever your trying to do now ) , which is basically meaningless in an attempt to change something that doesn't need to be changed .
They just adjusted the myo's so why would they need to change them more , they just adjusted the sprint mods so why would they need to change them again .?. when you run these items ... your placing yourself at a disadvantage to be able to do something else and now you want to change that for what .?. to be able to not be able to shoot .?. well you can do that when you melee someone anyway so , what needs to be changed .
You want to be able to tank and still have the advantage of bio's ?
I get it Cat Merc , you play EVE or your a forum warrior but do you even play this game .?. ( if you do , it's not often and without the help of you " friends " so again , why do you people act like you have such an influence over the direction of the game ) you can make all the meme's you want in defense of your friend , that still wont change the fact that you people act like you have weight over the direction of the game and I find that disturbing .
There is zero wrong with bio's , you swap something to do something else and that sounds like an even exchange but like the power core idea , it's all to do over nothing with the backing of your " friends " and that to me is a mistake because it's not like you people are tackling real issues like matchmaking , you know ... something that this game desperately needs but yet you spend time on made up issues that really aren't issues at all because CCP just made changes to what your trying to address but it's like , you want it your way so you came up with this proposal and it's not like it's making the experience better because it's fine the way that it is .
You people are like the stompers , you don't want real change , you get up on your soap box and make statements about nothing really and truly and you don't want to make a real impact , you just want something and I don't know what that something is but it's not substantial but I guess you just want your name or influence on something because you do podcasts or make vids so you believe that you know better or just have that power of persuasion I suppose .
You people want to limit spawn placement because these same squads are just too lazy to change their tactics to address high spawns , you want to screw with bio's when there's nothing wrong with them now and after CCP just made changes to them for the reasons of the community complaining , you people expanded the HAV's weak area's instead of addressing the fact that maybe they just need to revert back to the system of 1.6 and bring back some of the mods that they use to have ( which they said that they were doing as far as the mods ) because you people just can't handle HAV's but you run in squads so you already have the numerical advantage over solo players and speaking of solo players , now you people want to kill the solo game instead of just trying to address the imbalance's of not having a true matchmaking system .
CCP allows people like you and your kind to just ruin the game because they listen to you instead of asking the COMMUNITY what they think about issues and what need / should be addressed , it's like you have them meeting in some back room , charting the fate of this game and to me , I find that alarming and dangerous .
You want to address something .?. you want to put your " stamp " on something .?. then lead the charge to address the matchmaking situation and I would see the reasoning in that for an instance but to attempt to change something that just doesn't need it because you ran some fits for a couple of months , that just doesn't make sense and even more so after CCP just made changes to what you've highlighted , this leads me to think that your trying to influence the game in the direction that you believe that it should be in and to me , if CCP's allows this , is counterproductive , foolish , braindead and just down right stupid .
We are and have a community for a reason and that should be to come to a consorted effort to hash out real issues and not to turn it into some bully pulpit to make the game into what a particular individual wants .
You want to address something , address the imbalance and mismatches / mismanagement of the game and fix the mess that has become Dust 514 or do you PC master race / EVE types just want to ruin the game because it's on a console so your willing to do whatever it takes to kill Dust 514 ?
Hell to me it's already dead if they allow people like yourself to influence the direction of the game , they say zero about it's future and it's like you people can't wait to feast on it's carcass .
Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1
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Posted - 2015.10.28 16:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
there was no need fo rjumping mods. just a charged jump. Hold down X for a brief time and you jumped twice as high for twice the stamina. it'd allow heavies to get over small bumps. problem sorted.
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.10.28 18:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
The hell.
Shinobi, if you write a Great Wall of Text that could stop the Mongolians, you could at least make it legible.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Immortal John Ripper
29
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Posted - 2015.10.28 18:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The hell.
Shinobi, if you write a Great Wall of Text that could stop the Mongolians, you could at least make it legible. yeah I am not reading that. Someone post a tldr; |
Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:You people want to limit spawn placement because these same squads are just too lazy to change their tactics to address high spawns , you want to screw with bio's when there's nothing wrong with them now and after CCP just made changes to them for the reasons of the community complaining , you people expanded the HAV's weak area's instead of addressing the fact that maybe they just need to revert back to the system of 1.6 and bring back some of the mods that they use to have ( which they said that they were doing as far as the mods ) because you people just can't handle HAV's but you run in squads so you already have the numerical advantage over solo players and speaking of solo players , now you people want to kill the solo game instead of just trying to address the imbalance's of not having a true matchmaking system. Sure, there are real issues with matchmaking e.g. veterans being able to smurf into lower mu bracket and academy battles. The devs can commit all the time they have to enhancing an already robust matchmaking system, it's not going to do much difference with very low player counts--whereas a port would likely help in that regard, but that costs money, development resources, and is a risky move (that could blowback if it flounders on PS4/PC) at the moment when CCP as a company is trying to position Valkyrie for the upcoming VR market.
Looking at initiatives like the powercore or myo equipment are put forward to realistically improve things like performance with item caching or differences in player power/access to power which are good for the health of the game under the constraints the devs are operating at within on the PS3 ecosystem.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
This is an interesting proposal.
All in all I think I like it. |
Nirwanda Vaughns
1
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
or even make myos low slots. least that way they can't stack cardiac regulators with them for infinite jump power or kincat melee
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:there was no need fo rjumping mods. just a charged jump. Hold down X for a brief time and you jumped twice as high for twice the stamina. it'd allow heavies to get over small bumps. problem sorted. -Requiring twice the stamina for power jump further increases the divide between new and old players with access to mobility that allows them to shoot at the same time. Vets will almost always have the combat height advantage over less sp skilled players here. Proto green bottles give you much larger stamina pool and much faster stamina recharge time.
-Adding a 'hold x to jump tool tip' requires localization, which also requires altering the baked in Scaleform UI elements of the HUD. These are very unwieldy to work with in Dust according to devs. With the cloak equipment, its icons already exist.
-The cloak already affects player attributes, e.g. suit db profile. It may be easier for devs to simply make a cloak, decouple the character mesh alteration, and have it affect jump height and melee power for a limited time (e.g. 20 second window). Rather than making a charge mechanic that affects jump (and how would the charge jump be indicated on the HUD? As stated earlier, altering hud elements is time consuming for devs).
-We can fix the issues of heavies not being able to jump rails by just buffing base jump height for them without the need for modules or EQ. With the equipment approach players get two options of jump (rather than always on myo modules, which are buggy and clunky when stacking).
-Blue bottles in high slots do offer a good balance against offsetting the primary tank of min/caldari slayers and preventing gal/amarr from having jumps plus either a secondary tank or bonus damage. Read the balance factors in the OP on how pg modules take the place of blue bottles.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Immortal John Ripper
29
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
A trampoline type thing would be kinda cool. imagine reaching highspots by jumping on a device. Create pathways for team mates. Although it might nerf that uneasy feeling you get when you are climbing a ladder completely helpless and exposed.. |
Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
deezy dabest wrote:This causes a potential problem with heavies which armor heavies get a huge benefit from jumpy mods by being able to clear a 3 inch curb. Heavies can't fit EQ. Buff heavies base height and add a factor to pure armor plates which reduce jump height. After a threshold of stacking only armor HP mods they won't be able to clear rails anymore.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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deezy dabest
IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance.
3
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:deezy dabest wrote:This causes a potential problem with heavies which armor heavies get a huge benefit from jumpy mods by being able to clear a 3 inch curb. Heavies can't fit EQ. Buff heavies base height and add a factor to pure armor plates which reduce jump height.
That just buffs shield heavies who already have more mobility. |
Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.10.28 19:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Immortal John Ripper wrote:A trampoline type thing would be kinda cool. imagine reaching highspots by jumping on a device. Create pathways for team mates. Although it might nerf that uneasy feeling you get when you are climbing a ladder completely helpless and exposed.. Sents don't have EQ slots so they would still need to use ladders or vehicle transport reach these vantage points.
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