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Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
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Posted - 2015.10.20 03:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:
You need to focus on your factions 'Strong Suits' and stop trying to treat factions like a plate you carry up to the buffet line expecting to pick-and-choose your favorite items.
You know what, I just remembered. That's how they sold the game when I started playing; pick and choose because all playstyles were supposed to be viable but now they're trying to pigeon hole us into a cookie cutter situation where only certain playstyles are viable with certain roles. Your choices were supposed to matter but now the choices aren't completely ours.
Most of what I see around here is just a bag of dicks in need of some kicks.
Dust really needs its high sec.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
4
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Posted - 2015.10.20 03:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:HEEEELLLS TO THE NO. This nice bonus is good as it is. It has made the assault rifle the best cqc weapon. It's good as it has is. Any less and it's not gonna be too good and any more and it will be op.
Edit- reread, not too bad but meh.
Prime example of how tools **** on good ideas. Gal assault would still get the same buff but his first reaction was to shut the idea down for no good reason other than he likes the OPness of the gal assault.
"Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit"
Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
4
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Posted - 2015.10.20 03:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rinzler XVII wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Summa Militum wrote:I don't like the idea of any faction, besides the Gallente, receiving a boost for using the Assault Rifle. And a lot of us don't like the AR being a glorified paper weight on anything other than the Gassault. It's a gallente weapon why would they make it better for use on non gallente suits? You must suck with the AR because it's works a treat on my Cal assault.
If that's the point....then why buff the AR anyway???? If it's so good without the bonus, what was the point in the first place other than to make Gal assaults even more effective than they were before.
"Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit"
Check RND out here
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Vicious Minotaur
3
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Posted - 2015.10.20 06:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
TL;DR: Just pick a design philosophy and stick to it. That is the opposite of what CCP is doing.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:
The sentinels are very unique! Both in bonuses, in their respective damge resistances, and in their different builds and racial strengths.
Ooooohhh! All have generic passive damage resists. So unique... So cool. And only ever benefit the player whilst being shot at. The bonuses are so cool. Much better than looking at each individual race and giving them a bonus that DIRECTLY enhances their playstyle. Nope. Better to nail into them a one-size-fits-all resistance bonus, which given their nature, innately benefit the races capable of tanking more.
And never mind that given the TTK, the racial bonuses are not that useful in and of themselves. But then again, what the hell would I know. It's not like I've maxxed out all the Sentinels or anything. And even if I had, it'd be irrelavent.
And the different builds? Racial strengths? Those come not from the bonuses, but the base stats. The shields. The armour. The speed. The slots. Those are the unique things. Not the resistance bonuses.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:]I have to disagree about what you're saying because it wasn't simply " a single suit"?! Both the gal and cal assaults got an extra bonus because the originals were lack luster. I would argue, and have, that they could be both evenly tuned down. Have both suits bonuses put out less if they're going to have two.
Ummm.... Earth to Banewolf. Minotaur here. I am referring to the Gallente Assaults direct buff to AR DPS. It is the "single suit" in the assault line-up which gets a direct buff to DPS. The other three don't have enhanced DPS.
Bradric Banewolf wrote: When talking about consistency we must remember that individual players playstyles are both very unique, and at the same time very much the same. Fotm isn't just a phrase, but simply the way players play due to consistency. Min assault and amarr assault was everywhere for months because the gal and cal assaults bonuses and attributes were lack luster. To keep one or two suits superior to others is a bad idea.
I have no Idea what you are on about. I am referring to bonuses. Them being consistent across races. From the defitition I just looked up: "constantly adhering to the same principles, course, form..." I was under the impression that bonuses were supposed to follow certain principals among all the races.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:What was proposed here for the gallente and their rifle will keep the gal assault+AR from being FOTM, but also keep it very viable in CQC. The other suits will also benefit in CQC no bonus needed. The weapon itself becomes viable!
I have no issue with the AR being buffed. I am simply pointing out that the bonuses, unlike the sentinels, do not stick to a damn pattern as things currently are.
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Because of the attributes of the races and dropsuits themselves, we don't need to have complete consistancy. Give the Min assault a second bonus, and there would be no reason to spec into any other dropsuit. It would be the definition of OP, and isn't far from it as it stands. I see so many mercs still run every rifle on the min assault because of the dropsuits attributes, not the weapons.
In the case of the Amarr assault the weapons I see on it perform better because of the platforms ability to tank dmg. Which is also why we see so many rail rifles on both gal and amarr assaults even after the hotfix.
I believed I addressed some of that that in my closing line that you apparently did not read:
"Either disregard role consistency and equivalency entirely to allow more uniqueness within each role, or make things as consistent as the boring Sentinels. Pick a mindset. Stick to it. Don't go all Flip floppity like Hillary Clinton. Just don't."
I am simply stating that CCP would do well to pick an ideology. Pick a mindset. Stick to it. Because right now, they have not done it:
Sentinels: Follow a very consistent pattern of "Durr, resistances, durr."
Logistics: Follow a very consistent pattern of buffing racial equipment.
Assaults: 2/4 have two bonuses. 3/4 have bonuses that make firing more sustainable. 1/4 has a bonus that directly increases DPS.
Scouts: Some have EWAR. One has a weapon. Inconsistent, but I can't remember all the bonuses off the top of my head.
Either be consistently inconsistent, or be consistently consistent. I was under the assumption that CCP was shooting for the latter. But I'm okay with the former. Just pick a design philosophy and stick to it. Is that so disagreeable?
I'm the Minotaur
You! Yes, you! You are an illiterate little twit.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
4
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Posted - 2015.10.20 06:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:
What was proposed here for the gallente and their rifle will keep the gal assault+AR from being FOTM, but also keep it very viable in CQC. The other suits will also benefit in CQC no bonus needed. The weapon itself becomes viable!
Trying to understand you here....are you saying that the ROF bonus to gal assault WON'T make the gal assault+AR from being FOTM. If so, you have already been proven wrong.
The weapon itself could have been viable if it was given the ROF bonus directly. Recall that CCP already buff the AR's rof from 750 to 800. If they felt it was underperforming, they could have buffed it again. Instead...
"Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit"
Check RND out here
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Summa Militum
Abstract Requiem
1
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Posted - 2015.10.20 06:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:HEEEELLLS TO THE NO. This nice bonus is good as it is. It has made the assault rifle the best cqc weapon. It's good as it has is. Any less and it's not gonna be too good and any more and it will be op.
Edit- reread, not too bad but meh. Prime example of how tools **** on good ideas. Gal assault would still get the same buff but his first reaction was to shut the idea down for no good reason other than he likes the OPness of the gal assault.
I have a good reason for you. The Gallente Assault might be great in CQC but it is horrible at fighting at range. The Burst Assault Rifle only seems to be effective in the hands of few and the Tactical Assault Rifle is practically non existent outside of those people with modded controllers.
The Amarr and Caldari will always beat the Gallente when fighting at range. CQC is our turf so the Caldari and Amarr need to stop encroaching on it. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2015.10.20 06:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
If we're just tweaking what we have now I'd like to see the bonus split to a global +6% AR damage and Galsault +6% AR ROF.
But Vicious Minotaur has a good point - direct damage bonus is inconsistent with the other Assault suit buffs, which focus on ameliorating the Racial weapon drawbacks.
With that in mind i'd like to see the +6% AR damage buff also come with a dispersion increase for the automatic ARs - make the sharpshooter skill really count for AR.
The Galsault bonus would then be +3% RoF and -3% dispersion reduction.
Does anybody else think the Galsault + AR combo is now OP? A STD suit with the Exile AR + 2 Krins was melting heavies pretty fast tonight, and a GEK with a Complex damage mod was pretty much manhandling them.
TTK has take a significant kick in the nuts with this buff, methinks.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University
Ivy League
204
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Posted - 2015.10.20 07:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
As a CQC weapon some sort of handling bonuses might be appropriate. Maybe make it have lower-tier hip-fire dispersion, but add a bring-to-ADS/ADS movement speed bonus to the GalAss so they can take advantage of really accurate CQC shooting?
Something is killing new player retention.
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Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
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Posted - 2015.10.20 07:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:HEEEELLLS TO THE NO. This nice bonus is good as it is. It has made the assault rifle the best cqc weapon. It's good as it has is. Any less and it's not gonna be too good and any more and it will be op.
Edit- reread, not too bad but meh. Prime example of how tools **** on good ideas. Gal assault would still get the same buff but his first reaction was to shut the idea down for no good reason other than he likes the OPness of the gal assault. I have a good reason for you. The Gallente Assault might be great in CQC but it is horrible at fighting at range. The Burst Assault Rifle only seems to be effective in the hands of few and the Tactical Assault Rifle is practically non existent outside of those people with modded controllers. The Amarr and Caldari will always beat the Gallente when fighting at range. CQC is our turf so the Caldari and Amarr need to stop encroaching on it.
Well that just don't make any sense. They're already all up in Gallente turf, the AScR works well in CQC, even on suits other than the Amarr Assault and Commando. It's only downside is when you've got multiple enemies, limited cover to strafe around and those are only a problem when you're lone wolfing it. The ARR is a beast in CQC regardless of what it's on and it's only downside is a slight charge up which I personally don't consider a problem. Sure at this point the Gassault with an AR can compete, but the others can't using the AR (well maybe the Commando but I haven't seen it too much so a guess is a guess).
I get you want racial purity so that leaves the only option is to give all Gallente suits a bonus that makes it viable on them but then you've got to do the same with the other suits and then that just pigeon holes us even further. Say goodbye to choice because you'll have to run this to counter that because this or that will be the only choices.
Ya know, maybe if I had started playing more recently I'd see things differently but again when I started choices were a big thing and most were meant to be viable. That's one of the things that hooked me and if we continue down this path it's just strangling the dream of what Dust was meant to be. Which to be fair what dust was meant to be will never be and anything close to it we'll never see. I recognize that and accept it but it still bothers me. It's why I vehemently appose this path that is pigeon holing us into certain fits for certain roles.
Most of what I see around here is just a bag of dicks in need of some kicks.
Dust really needs its high sec.
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University
Ivy League
204
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Posted - 2015.10.20 07:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Isn't Dust supposed to be all about certain fits for certain roles? Maybe coming from Eve I just assumed that was the case, but I don't think it's wrong?
Something is killing new player retention.
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Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
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Posted - 2015.10.20 08:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Isn't Dust supposed to be all about certain fits for certain roles? Maybe coming from Eve I just assumed that was the case, but I don't think it's wrong?
The way they're going now that seems to be how it is. But like I've said, when I started it was all about options and most of them being viable.
Edit: Which to be fair. It was a completely different team working on it and frankly they made a lot of stupid fcking decisions that really hurt the future of this game.
Most of what I see around here is just a bag of dicks in need of some kicks.
Dust really needs its high sec.
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University
Ivy League
204
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Posted - 2015.10.20 08:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cool cool.
If they're borrowing their philosophy from Eve then certain fits for certain roles fits very well. Mind you the combat roles in Eve pretty much boil down to long-range or short-range, shield tank or armor tank (or rarely hull tank).
Something is killing new player retention.
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Boot Booter
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.10.20 13:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Rinzler XVII wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Summa Militum wrote:I don't like the idea of any faction, besides the Gallente, receiving a boost for using the Assault Rifle. And a lot of us don't like the AR being a glorified paper weight on anything other than the Gassault. It's a gallente weapon why would they make it better for use on non gallente suits? You must suck with the AR because it's works a treat on my Cal assault. If that's the point....then why buff the AR anyway???? If it's so good without the bonus, what was the point in the first place other than to make Gal assaults even more effective than they were before.
^ I love when people make the argument "you must suck". Haha so stupid. Cool dude you're so good.
Look the AR was under performing based on the statistics we have. Doesn't matter how good you are with it. It's ******* statistics, they are not wrong. Perhaps that has changed with the shield buff, time will tell. However, personally I feel it is still a bit weak on suits other than the gal assault and gal commando. Apparently I'm not alone on this.
My idea is to keep the gal assault just as powerful as well as buff the AR by splitting the recent buff between both the AR and the gal assault. I don't understand people's objections to the idea in the thread. Unless some of you think the AR is OP on suits other than the gal assault lol.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.10.20 14:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:
Factions should use their respective weapons and should learn to use them correctly.
Now what on earth is that rule?
You made that up by yourself, didn't you?
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
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4lbert Wesker
Standby Retaliation
532
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Posted - 2015.10.20 14:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
I don't know about you guys but I get killed with AR very rarely,even after FoxFour fix
WESKER S.T.A.R.S. is not my corporation!
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Summa Militum
Abstract Requiem
1
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Posted - 2015.10.20 16:14:00 -
[46] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Summa Militum wrote:
Factions should use their respective weapons and should learn to use them correctly.
Now what on earth is that rule? You made that up by yourself, didn't you?
The fact that our suits have bonuses directed towards specific weapons dictates that. |
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