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Saint Winter
The Warlords Legion
No Context
156
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Posted - 2015.09.30 17:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hello everyone .
I think it would be better to cut the price of some equipment.
Which I would like to change them the price is Focused Armor Repairer , I say that 35,000 to 25,000 or 21,180ISK.
Why Change The Price :
Well it costs too much for a restful, clear but has a magnificent repair rate , but have the smallest range and minor than a militia variant , so I say that this should have cost .
Another thing I'd like to give him a buff range of 7.5 to 9.0 m to the Focused Armor Repairer .
In relation to the other variants they are very well so I think they left the current price.
I have nothing to say .
Thanks for read my idea . |
Aiwha Bait
Incorruptibles
279
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Posted - 2015.09.30 18:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Saint Winter wrote:Hello everyone .
I think it would be better to cut the price of some equipment.
Which I would like to change them the price is Focused Armor Repairer , I say that 35,000 to 25,000 or 21,180ISK.
Why Change The Price :
Well it costs too much for a restful, clear but has a magnificent repair rate , but have the smallest range and minor than a militia variant , so I say that this should have cost .
Another thing I'd like to give him a buff range of 7.5 to 9.0 m to the Focused Armor Repairer .
In relation to the other variants they are very well so I think they left the current price.
I have nothing to say .
Thanks for read my idea .
....you do realize the Core Focused is like that for a reason, right?
"Bait is too adorable to stab" - Zaria Min Deir
Writer and Editor for Biomassed
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 18:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
What annoys me about pricing is that it's obviously aimed at triage players wallets.
Proof?
BDR-2 Repair tool - standard - cost:4,935
BDR-5 Axis repair tool - vehicle specified - cost:4,935
BDR-8 Triage repair tool - dropsuit specified - cost:8,070
Think it's price difference is based on how much repairing it (the triage varient) does over the standard?
BDR-2: 60 hp/s ,75 hp/s min logistics lv 5 on dropsuits
98 hp/s,122.5 hp/s min logistics lv 5 on vehicles
BDR-5:45 hp/s,56.25 hp/s min logistics lv 5 on dropsuits
112 hp/s,140 hp/s min logistics lv 5 on vehicles.
BDR-8:75 hp/s,93.75 hp/s min logistics lv 5 on dropsuits.
73 hp/s,91.25 hp/s min logistics lv 5 on vehicles.
The BDR-8 gains 15 hp/s on dropsuits,but loses 15 hp/s on vehicles.
The BDR-5 loses 15 hp/s on dropsuits,but gains 14 hp/s on vehicles.
Both loss and gains are almost equal,yet the triage version costs more? 3135 extra to be exact.
And here's the most painful part...The BDR-5 can out vehicle repair the basic Pro repair tool.(With an 8,280 ISK savings.)
Yet the triage version cannot out dropsuit repair the basic Pro repair tool.
The only repair tool that beats the BDR-5 axis (in vehicle repair) is the Core focused,yet the triage version is immediately outclassed as soon as you upgrade making the advanced triage tool worthless.
I believe that price suppression (Pro is too expensive to use consecutively) is the only motivation driving the general use of the shoddy ADV tool.
If the ADV triage version were as effective as it's vehicle counterpart it would be chosen on merits alone,single beam or not.
Just remember to look deeper than .5 inches when deciding price change suggestions,or it'll be the BDR-8 all over again.
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.09.30 18:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:For my part I feel that the equipment should be universally standardized like modules, dropsuits and weapons. I am wide open on where the price points should fall however.
This. I don't really think that different types of equipment should cost more or less than others. Only its performance should alter price unless weapon visuals (skins) came into the mix.
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.09.30 18:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:Who am i to say no to this normalization?
I agree, also i like the logic behind deployable cheaper than not handheld.
I had not considered this but a good point. It would make sense, doesn't necessarily mean that we should however.
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
661
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Posted - 2015.09.30 20:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
 Because Dust is presented as an "fps" when it's arguably not really one primarily,... and because there are always players dashing around shooting in wild addiction and not able to watch the overview map, many will argue my opinion that LOGI isn't just what "helped" your squad win that last match... logi "WON" that match for you squad, as well as the match just before this one, and at least 7 other matches earlier today!
A gun in the hands of a really advanced player will do a lot of damage in Dust. But a piece of logi equipment in the hands of even a bright sophomore player is likely to give the enemy a really hard time trying to win this match.
So here's my "whoa, WHAT, Celesta?!" statement:
Because they are so pivotal and useful in "winning", tanking troops that would normally be defeated, and controlling map-access to a degree that the enemy can't effectively shut off,... logi equipment SHOULD be disturbingly more expensive than the other grunt weaponry.
A dropship is gamepiece that is far more potent than 95% of players seem to realize. I've accompanied good (I mean the ACTUAL good) DS players who, with very little help, owned match after match after match with just two transport dropships opening the Nulls for our team, and closing them from the other team trying to get to them.
....But the simple fact that DS is so difficult to do well, and so long to build-SP into prevents dropships from sabotaging every darn match and poisoning the game.
I hope keeping logi gear and skills on a high stiff price-range is what's keeping EVERY match from being plagued with uplink measles, nanohive hooka-pipe dens, nanohive vampirism at the Supply Depots, and having your sneak-attempts revealed to the enemy because there were 4 "logis" running along behind you wanting to be the first to get repper-points off your fat suit. "No, go back-- I'm not hurt; get off me---YOU ARE GOING TO GET US KILLED, will you leave me alone, please?!!!"
So I don't really want the logi gear pricing to fall in line with the rest of the market stock. If it's a stiffly-higher cost than a good adv gun,... good. If the costs of the gun market goes up, I hope the logi costs go up too.
I prefer the price to frighten players from doing "casual" logi work, and reserve the work for those who will pay the extra cost because they want to be LOGI devotees.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
250
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Posted - 2015.09.30 20:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:I prefer the price to frighten players from doing "casual" logi work, and reserve the work for those who will pay the extra cost because they want to be LOGI devotees. Being casual is the first step to being MLG pro diamond tier brah.
Quit being elitist 
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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IceShifter Childhaspawn
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
781
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Posted - 2015.09.30 20:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
I like the proposals. The increases are fair and not deal breaking.
At those prices Ill be leaving alloteks instead of kds at chokepoints!
Just a thought and while you are in the equipment focus
Some of these mercs suggestions arent bad. Leaving the CRUs at base 15 and having links scale from 4 to 10 is a good one.
Things will have to adjust after the hotfix is implemented anyways so save WP and hives for then.
(I would rather have too many logis than half the team quitting.)
It's hard to beat up hundreds of armor piercing bullets using only your face...
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.30 20:54:00 -
[39] - Quote
To clarify on some of the changes made in the spreadsheet:
The prices are spit-balled. What really, truly matters is that you understand and are knowledgeable that prices - even in the game as you are currently playing it - are based off of the meta level of the equipment in question. The prices are modified by a set multiplier based on the meta level itself with the base price being affected by that multiplier.
So, when someone earlier commented, "Why would you increase the price of Nanite Injectors?", the answer to that is that the base price was given the same as the other handheld equipment (active scanner and repair tool) and the price modifiers on the next tiers up were based on their meta level.
To be absolutely clear: This proposal is not about base prices, which can be modified, it is about the price modifier applied to the meta levels. This proposal is to -DECREASE- the multiplicative amount per meta level and close the gap in the price ranges between Meta 1 and Meta 8+ based on an exponential progression. This will result in a standardized function that is easy to understand, predictable in nature, and easily iterated on in the future.
Whereas 'placed' equipment is cheaper in this proposal -it is in no way what the proposal centralizes and hallmarks on-. It was a way to see, at a glance, what the effects would be if that route was taken while focusing on what we want to address: The reduction in equipment price per meta level by reducing the multiplicative value with which is applied to the base value of the meta one (1) item.
The base prices can be iterated on later. For now, try to focus your feedback on the price multipliers for each meta level, within reason. I.E: Don't suggest that they be free =P
EDIT: Also bear in mind that this proposal will be in conjunction with CPM Cross Atu's work and may be changed once the proposal is finalized. For now, we're just looking at the methodology with which Equipment is being priced. Balance, parity, etc has likely already been covered with the work that Cross Atu has done and any of your feedback in that regard should be given in the appropriate area.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.09.30 21:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
My feeling on this are a bit off-topic, but for a good reason.
Apex and bpos make this entire conversation very nearly a moot point: if we paid for everything we lost then equipment pricing would be an important topic. As things stand, however, for almost any player with some time and the most meager amount of cash invested in Dust equipment cost is a consideration, but not a big one.
Wealth is relative and with the saturation of proto and more recent proliferation of officer gear, equipment pricing means very little. Imo, this game lost a lot with the string of game design decisions that gradually estranged gear level from personal player skill.
More pertinent to the OP's question: On my Ammarian scout alt who has reached 10 million sp with no passive skill training, no boosters, events, or bpos her ISK balance is perpetually rising while running the most powerful gear her skills allow. Because of this i feel that rationalization of gear pricing might be intellectually satisfying but still totally irrelevant to my gameplay experience - there are several more significant game design issues to deal with first.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Aiwha Bait
Incorruptibles
281
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Posted - 2015.09.30 23:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote: I prefer the price to frighten players from doing "casual" logi work, and reserve the work for those who will pay the extra cost because they want to be LOGI devotees.
First off, in pretty insulted that you called what I do "casual logi work" (1k WP per match, I assume is "casual"). I will " hardcore logi" a lot of the time, but when I'm not, guess what, I'm either logi-ing or sniping. I have a bad gun game (ask my corp mates. I'm always going negative :P), and a logistical support role is something that I'm good at. So please, don't insult how I play just because you think you can do it better, which is what you're implying with statements like "casual logi work" :)
While I admire this statement, I don't necessarily agree with it. Even a high price that "frightens players from doing 'casual' logi work..." those who do well will still die a bunch in matches, even in proto (turns out proto gear does not make you a DUST God). Those people will lose ISK, even if they run full proto, which is expensive, obviously. Even those of us who run STD and ADV gear will ultimately lose more money than we make, with the current prices.
Now, if the prices were lowered, I would gamble and say you'd see more people doing more than "casual logi work", which would help the team in the long run. Nobody likes to lose ISK, clearly, and the logi role is one of the most brutal roles, as far as ISK made to ISK lost. This discourages players from being a logi. If the ISK Lost/ISK Made ratio were better, more people would logi, and you'd see more people advancing their logi skills, which would produce more " hardcore logi players".
We all have to start somewhere before we get to your "god tier" logi skills. You started with "casual logi work" I can almost guarantee :)
"Bait is too adorable to stab" - Zaria Min Deir
Writer and Editor for Biomassed
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BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
241
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Posted - 2015.10.01 00:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Why is there so much talk about making items cheaper....
The cost forces us to make decisions and scale our spending to our income. I am not in favor of making anything cheaper. As it is there is only one tier being ran and that's proto in pretty much every match I am in. If you can't maintain ISK flows then it should be time to address your play styles not make items cheaper.
Add to this that a logi makes way more ISK per match on average than any other role and I see even less incentive to lower costs. Standardizing costs are one thing, but reducing costs just means even more of a single tier being ran and forces no decisions on players. It is simply all proto all the time in that case.
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.10.01 00:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm down for cheaper equipment all around. Maybe a worthwhile method would be to slash pricing on the lower tier eq while only moderately reducing proto. Everything is reduced but the cheapest (and potentially more profitable to run equipment) is a bigger pain to use and vice versa.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.10.01 02:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
If anyone has spare time, this 86 page thread is finally having some it's ideas see the light of day. I'm linking to the closest point where we began talking about equipment pricing, but was shelved in favor of fixing other things with hotfixes Charlie and onward. I wish I could dig further, but my work schedule is brutal, and my wife is hot. So you know, half assed forum warrior and all. 
Also gone are all the spreadsheets Cross made from the findings in that over a year long thread. 
The thread that started it all
Edit, found some of the spreadsheets from the original thread.
OG Logi Thread
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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knight guard fury
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.10.01 19:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
don't know how late i am to this party but, what if CCP coded in a way for the market to change its own rates on equipment and weapons and stuff depending on the amount that's bought, sold, and traded? like how Eve's market is but controlled by the NPC since player market isn't yet achievable for us yet
Kin of the Vherokior tribe and warrior of the republic
Self proclaimed minmatar lore master
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Aiwha Bait
Incorruptibles
283
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Posted - 2015.10.02 13:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kinda unrelated, but what if each tier of needles not only healed for more on pick up, but also picked up faster? STD needles took the normal time to pick, ADV picked maybe a second quicker, and Proto picked even quicker.
"Bait is too adorable to stab" - Zaria Min Deir
Writer and Editor for Biomassed
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Alaika Arbosa
No Context
2
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Posted - 2015.10.02 15:19:00 -
[47] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:don't know how late i am to this party but, what if CCP coded in a way for the market to change its own rates on equipment and weapons and stuff depending on the amount that's bought, sold, and traded? like how Eve's market is but controlled by the NPC since player market isn't yet achievable for us yet
I was about to suggest essentially this. Float prices on an equation involving player stockpiles, units purchased in past X days and units destroyed in combat in the past X days.
I <3 introducing reddots to ragdoll physics!
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IR Scifi
OSG Planetary Operations
211
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Posted - 2015.10.02 18:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
I can't say I've ever had too many issues with equipment costs. I've compared against some of my comrades assault fits and it seems very competitive price wise. Though I've pretty much ran the same exact logi fit since the suit was created.
I do like the idea of placed equipment being cheaper than handheld. As a derail I'd think the same idea could be applied to cpu/pg cost as well. |
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