I have been playing Dust nearly every day for about a month. Maybe just one battle sometimes, but over the course my short month I've come to wonder a few things. This is my favorite shooter and I love the EVE world. With that said here are a few thoughts...

1. Why does the mass driver exist?

Dust's style of shooter is in the battlefield realm in terms of how it feels while you play. This is a slower, more tactical style which rewards positioning, planning and teamwork unlike the twitch based games like Destiny. The mass driver can be used in many underhanded ways. It's as if they put a gun in for grief reveling players. Standing on rooftops, spraying the walls and ground around you, adding jump mods and bunny hopping while spamming your feet... I played 3 losing games in a row where multiple people were doing this each game, seemingly unplanned. It's not fun to play against. They players aren't unkillable by any means, but it is pretty f*cking stupid. And you corps that get together in proto and does this as a group to pugs, kindly kys.

2. Revives are inconsistent and players suck

We've all experienced the blueberries who die in front of you, you whip out your nanite injector and just try not to die until you can rez... only you never get that opportunity because they never hit the button for a revive. This is a terrible mechanic, revives should be able to be performed on every soldier the second you hit the ground. If you want to change your loadout go to a supply depot or wait until you die away from a medic or you cannot be revived again. What sane person wouldn't want to save fittings and use death as a way to change loadouts?

3. Pub stomping needs to be balanced

I'm all for a good stomping, it's inevitable and goes both ways. But I've noticed a trend of Corp members playing like absolute assholes. Mad proto spam even when it's 4 Corp members vs pub, bunny hopping, mass driver, dropship spam or all in commando suits with mass drivers and scramble rifles and jump mods. Usually it's a combo of all these tactics when it's 4 Corp members. Don't you guys want a challenge? Is it fun to watch people leave and then have the teams never even? I just don't understand the draw to playing like this or even why CCP allowed these mix of mechanics. It doesn't enhance or enrich the game in any way.
pÇïpÇï

I love the game but some things leave me smfh.

Edit: I don't leave games.

All new players assumed alt unless proven otherwise.

1. Why does the mass driver exist?

2. Revives are inconsistent and players suck

We've all experienced the blueberries who die in front of you, you whip out your nanite injector and just try not to die until you can rez... only you never get that opportunity because they never hit the button for a revive. This is a terrible mechanic, revives should be able to be performed on every soldier the second you hit the ground. If you want to change your loadout go to a supply depot or wait until you die away from a medic or you cannot be revived again. What sane person wouldn't want to save fittings and use death as a way to change loadouts?

3. Pub stomping needs to be balanced

I'm all for a good stomping, it's inevitable and goes both ways. But I've noticed a trend of Corp members playing like absolute assholes. Mad proto spam even when it's 4 Corp members vs pub, bunny hopping, mass driver, dropship spam or all in commando suits with mass drivers and scramble rifles and jump mods. Usually it's a combo of all these tactics when it's 4 Corp members. Don't you guys want a challenge? Is it fun to watch people leave and then have the teams never even? I just don't understand the draw to playing like this or even why CCP allowed these mix of mechanics. It doesn't enhance or enrich the game in any way.
pÇïpÇï

I love the game but some things leave me smfh.

Edit: I don't leave games.

I've been running through newbie stuff with him. I don't think he's an alt.
He's also new, whilst sufficiently old that it's unlikely this was a character created specifically for the purpose of trolling the forums about this.

In the future, perhaps not uselessly demean newbies?

Before I even read the rest of this paragraph, I smiled.



I appreciate that it's frustrating when you're ready to revive someone and they don't call for a revive... But I would pin this more on awkwardness of informing players of this fact rather than the non-revivability under fire. If it were made absolutely clear to even the thickest of people that you need to PUSH X TO GET REVIVED and that you should do so, I think more people would. 'Call for help', surprisingly, isn't always recognised as necessary by newbies. I've mentored several people who were unaware of this and I had to explain to them over comms that they needed to press x to be revived.

Previously there were problems with revive abuse - people would endlessly revive people under fire in a frustrating manner, for instance. In some scenarios people would be 'farmed', where two players would co-operate to shoot the victim, have them revived (by a friend on the other team) and then repeat to get many easy kills. This had the frustrating side-effect of counting as a death for the player each time it happened to them.

An obvious solution and one that's been asked for since forever is to only have deaths count on bleedout. It's a minor thing, but it does have an effect on the psychology of the situation.

Perhaps a superior solution would be to allow players to 'accept' revives. They wouldn't need to call for help to be revived - allowing logis to needle them and get their WP - but they'd need to push a button to get up once that happens. There are a couple of minor problems with that solution, but I think it would be better than the current system.



This is the one thing I lament about DUST the most.

Rooftop camping, MD hopping, blatant team mismatches... It's so easy to simply break the game in a way that isn't really fulfilling. It isn't a challenge when you're running a full proto squad and slaughtering your way through newbies. It isn't a challenge when you sit on a rooftop filled with uplinks and triage hives and camp there all match. And it certainly isn't a challenge to do both of these things at once.

The balance is precarious, and map design lends itself extremely well to such 'cheesemode' tactics. There is no real solution to rooftop camping bar orbital strikes - even modestly competent groups without access to proto are able to drive off an ADS, and orbital strikes are neither readily available nor reliable.

Matchmaking is a tricky beast, I think. There've been numerous efforts to 'fix' it but I'm not sure I've ever been satisfied with it. It seems that overwhelmingly the number of matches I play are one-sided stomps, and those aren't really fun for either team. It's not enjoyable to sit on the redline all match waiting for some newbie to muster the courage to charge your wall of triple damage modded proto weapons. I doubt the newbie is having much fun in that situation either.

I'm not convinced a solution will arrive, though. Perhaps it's rather apt that I'm in a corp and alliance both named Negative Feedback with such an outlook, but this third point, more than anything, has contributed to the break I'm currently taking from the game. But not the forums, because that would be unthinkable.


A true stalwart. o7

If you think that is demeaning, well... nah. I shouldn't say anything, lest I perforate your incredibly thin skin...

(That's me actually being demeaning, in case you were wondering)

In the future, simply back somebody up without also uselessly accusing somebody else of something that they weren't being. You know, because that could also be construed as demeaning.

If you think that is demeaning, well... nah. I shouldn't say anything, lest I perforate your incredibly thin skin...

(That's me actually being demeaning, in case you were wondering)

In the future, simply back somebody up without also uselessly accusing somebody else of something that they weren't being. You know, because that could also be construed as demeaning.

Preach.

Anyways

The mass driver is like the sniper and the hmg. Used to scare and point defense. Isn't it intimidating when you see a md spamming an area? That's what it's for. Unfortunately people abuse them with myofibs.

There should be 5 seconds of bleed out time then an immediate revive time. Unless you press x to be revived.

Stomping can only be solved by tiers.

Before I even read the rest of this paragraph, I smiled.



I appreciate that it's frustrating when you're ready to revive someone and they don't call for a revive... But I would pin this more on awkwardness of informing players of this fact rather than the non-revivability under fire. If it were made absolutely clear to even the thickest of people that you need to PUSH X TO GET REVIVED and that you should do so, I think more people would. 'Call for help', surprisingly, isn't always recognised as necessary by newbies. I've mentored several people who were unaware of this and I had to explain to them over comms that they needed to press x to be revived.

Previously there were problems with revive abuse - people would endlessly revive people under fire in a frustrating manner, for instance. In some scenarios people would be 'farmed', where two players would co-operate to shoot the victim, have them revived (by a friend on the other team) and then repeat to get many easy kills. This had the frustrating side-effect of counting as a death for the player each time it happened to them.

An obvious solution and one that's been asked for since forever is to only have deaths count on bleedout. It's a minor thing, but it does have an effect on the psychology of the situation.

Perhaps a superior solution would be to allow players to 'accept' revives. They wouldn't need to call for help to be revived - allowing logis to needle them and get their WP - but they'd need to push a button to get up once that happens. There are a couple of minor problems with that solution, but I think it would be better than the current system.



This is the one thing I lament about DUST the most.

Rooftop camping, MD hopping, blatant team mismatches... It's so easy to simply break the game in a way that isn't really fulfilling. It isn't a challenge when you're running a full proto squad and slaughtering your way through newbies. It isn't a challenge when you sit on a rooftop filled with uplinks and triage hives and camp there all match. And it certainly isn't a challenge to do both of these things at once.

The balance is precarious, and map design lends itself extremely well to such 'cheesemode' tactics. There is no real solution to rooftop camping bar orbital strikes - even modestly competent groups without access to proto are able to drive off an ADS, and orbital strikes are neither readily available nor reliable.

Matchmaking is a tricky beast, I think. There've been numerous efforts to 'fix' it but I'm not sure I've ever been satisfied with it. It seems that overwhelmingly the number of matches I play are one-sided stomps, and those aren't really fun for either team. It's not enjoyable to sit on the redline all match waiting for some newbie to muster the courage to charge your wall of triple damage modded proto weapons. I doubt the newbie is having much fun in that situation either.

I'm not convinced a solution will arrive, though. Perhaps it's rather apt that I'm in a corp and alliance both named Negative Feedback with such an outlook, but this third point, more than anything, has contributed to the break I'm currently taking from the game. But not the forums, because that would be unthinkable.


A true stalwart. o7

Perhaps I was overly quick to judge, as I have very little patience for hostile behaviour towards newbies, but your post was still pretty terrible.

Cool. Good to know that DUST still gets some new people.

I totally agree about using it as an area denial tool. But I think we have enough tools without the mass driver. Obviously not much is going to change in Dust, until Legion or whatever version CCP comes up with.... but I needed to vent. Every game I played today had at least one MD hopping proto player, I just don't get it.

I don't think there's any problem with the MD itself. The problem comes when you combine it with specific scenarios, at which point it becomes pretty much uncounterable.

It's quite entertaining playing the bunny hopping character with an MD - I have done it on occasion - but I don't think it's a good mechanic. Jumping up and then freely turning, aiming, and shooting in midair with an MD in such a way that you can ensure hits on your opponent, keep yourself out of harms way, and be prohibitively difficult to successfully hit is not good gameplay.

How do you counter it? The argument I typically hear from supporters is to 'shoot them, they have weak health' but this isn't necessarily true at all. One of my fits (I call it the Dragoon) has somewhere in the region of 800 armour with 20+ HP/s regen but can jump almost as high as a scout. When I jump with this fit the drastic increase in survivability is immediately apparent. I have won numerous solo fights against multiple players simply by jumping around, hammering them while they're mostly unable to respond, and I've even done so on low health.


The other problem is rooftop camping, which is endemic to DUST as a consequence of the map design. Many maps are built in such a way that it's unrealistic to displace rooftop campers at all, even if they have oversight of crucial objectives. When you can sit on a rooftop with lots of HP, you can't be removed easily. Even concerted fire gives you a moment to duck down, regenerate, and start it all over again.

I'm well versed in these things, being a moderately 'competitive' player and having been in well-known tryhard corps for the past couple of years. But I wish I wasn't, really, because I would enjoy DUST if I could have an experience in which I can use both tactics and gungame. Despite being billed as a tactical shooter the most effective tactics are shallow, and absurdly difficult to counter.

At my worst moments, i kinda miss running needle trains on blues in FW. Kill, revive, kill, revive. Record was 35. You & a red in the know could farm pubs as well.

Thats why you have to call for help.

as Dress said

People complained that they were getting revived in front of reds and getting immediately killed again, compromising their K/D. As such, CCP changed it so that you had to call for a revive, or you could not be rezzed. Really, the whole problem could have been solved by implementing an 'Accept revive?' feature.

Uh... I wonder if your corp name really is appropriate for someone of your moral calibre...

I have been playing Dust nearly every day for about a month. Maybe just one battle sometimes, but over the course my short month I've come to wonder a few things. This is my favorite shooter and I love the EVE world. With that said here are a few thoughts...

1. Why does the mass driver exist?

Dust's style of shooter is in the battlefield realm in terms of how it feels while you play. This is a slower, more tactical style which rewards positioning, planning and teamwork unlike the twitch based games like Destiny. The mass driver can be used in many underhanded ways. It's as if they put a gun in for grief reveling players. Standing on rooftops, spraying the walls and ground around you, adding jump mods and bunny hopping while spamming your feet... I played 3 losing games in a row where multiple people were doing this each game, seemingly unplanned. It's not fun to play against. They players aren't unkillable by any means, but it is pretty f*cking stupid. And you corps that get together in proto and does this as a group to pugs, kindly kys.

2. Revives are inconsistent and players suck

We've all experienced the blueberries who die in front of you, you whip out your nanite injector and just try not to die until you can rez... only you never get that opportunity because they never hit the button for a revive. This is a terrible mechanic, revives should be able to be performed on every soldier the second you hit the ground. If you want to change your loadout go to a supply depot or wait until you die away from a medic or you cannot be revived again. What sane person wouldn't want to save fittings and use death as a way to change loadouts?

3. Pub stomping needs to be balanced

I'm all for a good stomping, it's inevitable and goes both ways. But I've noticed a trend of Corp members playing like absolute assholes. Mad proto spam even when it's 4 Corp members vs pub, bunny hopping, mass driver, dropship spam or all in commando suits with mass drivers and scramble rifles and jump mods. Usually it's a combo of all these tactics when it's 4 Corp members. Don't you guys want a challenge? Is it fun to watch people leave and then have the teams never even? I just don't understand the draw to playing like this or even why CCP allowed these mix of mechanics. It doesn't enhance or enrich the game in any way.

pÇïpÇï

I love the game but some things leave me smfh.

Edit: I don't leave games.

Thanks for the input everyone. The revive thing should be solved by instead of pressing a button to call for revive, as Dress said, an accept revive. The needle bearer should get points for stabbing them and more if they accept, balance it to current values. Problem solved and needle bearers have more inclination to run to targets who are downed, even if they don't accept your revive it's worth it. Better than nothing and wasting time getting to a player who's just gonna tap.

Yeah I know I'm late, wish I wasnt! Oh well...

This game has a steep learning curve already, players stomping pubs really makes newbies feel like they just don't get the game or are doing something wrong. It becomes frustrating and they will drop game or quit altogether. I started playing with a friend, he doesn't play anymore because he said it just wasn't a fun game.

I've had a few really great games with my corp that let me know there's a core game here that is challenging, dynamic and most importantly, fun.

No, it's not a fun game. Noobs need to have a place to learn the ropes. EvE has tutorials, and missions with difficulty based on standings and skill levels. That's probably too difficult to implement the way Dust has been structured, but more reasonable matching of players with grading of battles so that everyone can learn something would be helpful. Perhaps this is supposed to already be happening; if it is, it's a fail.

It's very nice to see such an intelligent newcomer to the game, great arguments, good points etc...
But...I'm afraid you're at least one year late to the party.
Or two, depending on the view.
o/

I have been playing Dust nearly every day for about a month. Maybe just one battle sometimes, but over the course my short month I've come to wonder a few things. This is my favorite shooter and I love the EVE world. With that said here are a few thoughts...

1. Why does the mass driver exist?

Dust's style of shooter is in the battlefield realm in terms of how it feels while you play. This is a slower, more tactical style which rewards positioning, planning and teamwork unlike the twitch based games like Destiny. The mass driver can be used in many underhanded ways. It's as if they put a gun in for grief reveling players. Standing on rooftops, spraying the walls and ground around you, adding jump mods and bunny hopping while spamming your feet... I played 3 losing games in a row where multiple people were doing this each game, seemingly unplanned. It's not fun to play against. They players aren't unkillable by any means, but it is pretty f*cking stupid. And you corps that get together in proto and does this as a group to pugs, kindly kys.

2. Revives are inconsistent and players suck

We've all experienced the blueberries who die in front of you, you whip out your nanite injector and just try not to die until you can rez... only you never get that opportunity because they never hit the button for a revive. This is a terrible mechanic, revives should be able to be performed on every soldier the second you hit the ground. If you want to change your loadout go to a supply depot or wait until you die away from a medic or you cannot be revived again. What sane person wouldn't want to save fittings and use death as a way to change loadouts?

3. Pub stomping needs to be balanced

I'm all for a good stomping, it's inevitable and goes both ways. But I've noticed a trend of Corp members playing like absolute assholes. Mad proto spam even when it's 4 Corp members vs pub, bunny hopping, mass driver, dropship spam or all in commando suits with mass drivers and scramble rifles and jump mods. Usually it's a combo of all these tactics when it's 4 Corp members. Don't you guys want a challenge? Is it fun to watch people leave and then have the teams never even? I just don't understand the draw to playing like this or even why CCP allowed these mix of mechanics. It doesn't enhance or enrich the game in any way.
pÇïpÇï

I love the game but some things leave me smfh.

Edit: I don't leave games.

Uh... I wonder if your corp name really is appropriate for someone of your moral calibre...