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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 12:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
- Gallente are ewar specialists. The best at detection and the best at evading detection.
- Every Scout with two dampeners can beat all scanners on all suits, except on the Duvolle focused on the Gallente Logi. Otherwise no active scan can pick you up.
- Every medium frame can beat every Adv scanner and standard scanner.
- The Gallente logi with the duvolle focused scanner can pick up all of the scouts except the Gallente scout.
- Every scout can get under the medium and long range passive scans of all suits except the Amarr scout.
- Scouts need an ewar counter that isnt other scouts. However, in order to catch the suits with the lowest profile, you will catch anthing that is higher than a scout. So all medium and heavy frames gets detected.
- Active scanning tells players they have been detected, but could be anywhere between 100 - 200 meters away. On many maps, this is the majority of the battlefield between the redlines.
- Passive scans allow players to see through walls just as well as active scans, but at much shorter ranges. It doesn't tell players they have been detected.
- Active scans are shared with a team and are active a short period of time.
- Passive scans are shared with a squad and are permanently active.
I know ewar is getting a rebalance, but these are some objective facts about scans and the relationship between them and opposing players.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 12:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed.
CEO of T-W-L
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:I think it's balanced. Scouts with 1 damp can avoid all but focused scans. Scouts are the only ones that should even worry about scans. And damps can beat scans anyways. Fit more damps and the focused can't do anything. It takes two damps on a Minmatar or Amarr scout to avoid all but focussed scans (not counting passives).
Only the Gallente scout can avoid Gal logi focussed scan without an active cloak. With the addition of decloak delay, cloak blindness and the nerf to activation times, scouts need to spend a lot of time decloaked, particularly when going on the offensive. So the cloak is no longer a terribly viable means of dampening.
I disagree that only scouts need to worry about scans. Often it is useful for other suits, particularly assaults, to avoid scans.
I also disagree that you need to be able to scan a scout (or any other suit) in order for it to be balanced. Though I accept that this is the purpose of the focussed scanner, and I'm not against a option to combat stealth suits with highly precise scans. So long as there is sufficient trade-off for the increased precision.
Scouts being OP in 1.8 had little to do with them more easily hiding from scans than now, and much more to do with all the myriad of other nerfs since then.
The systems are in place for counter-play between scanning and stealth. The question is, is it balanced? Are the trade-offs set at a level that encourages varied play styles.
In my opinion it comes down to two questions.
Question 1: Is the required level of dampening to avoid non-focussed scans a balanced trade-off? Currently it takes 3 (out of 8) slots for an assault, and 2 (or 1 if bonused) slots (out of 6) for a scout. Would 2 slots (assaults) and 1 or 0 (scouts) be a more worthwhile trade for the benefit you gain, and therefore promote more varied fittings and combat styles? Or would it be OP? This could be achieved by swapping the Gal logi bonus from precision to cooldown reduction, for example.
Question 2: Assuming a focussed scanner (Gal-Logi, or otherwise) has the precision to detect pretty much anybody, are the downsides to using this over a different scanner sufficient? Would they still be sufficient if other scanners were nerfed like in question 1? Would/is it sufficiently worthwhile playing the stealth/damped game, whilst still being scannable by focussed scanners in their current state? Do the drawbacks need to be increased? I suggest nerfing the range to 50m, but buffing the precision down to 15db if the Gal logi precision bonus replaced. Would that improve balance, or render focussed scanners obsolete? |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:I think it's balanced. Scouts with 1 damp can avoid all but focused scans. Scouts are the only ones that should even worry about scans. And damps can beat scans anyways. Fit more damps and the focused can't do anything. It takes two damps on a Minmatar or Amarr scout to avoid all but focussed scans. Only the Gallente scout can avoid Gal logi focussed scan without an active cloak. With the addition of decloak delay, cloak blindness and the nerf to activation times, scouts need to spend a lot of time decloaked, particularly when going on the offensive. So the cloak is no longer a terribly viable means of dampening. I disagree that only scouts need to worry about scans. Often it is useful for other suits, particularly assaults, to avoid scans. I also disagree that you need to be able to scan a scout (or any other suit) in order for it to be balanced. Though I accept that this is the purpose of the focussed scanner, and I'm not against a option to combat stealth suits with highly precise scans. So long as there is sufficient trade-off for the increased precision. Scouts being OP in 1.8 had little to do with them more easily hiding from scans than now, and much more to do with all the myriad of other nerfs since then. The systems are in place for counter-play between scanning and stealth. The question is, is it balanced? Are the trade-offs set at a level that encourages varied play styles. In my opinion it comes down to two questions. Question 1: Is the required level of dampening to avoid non-focussed scans a balanced trade-off? Currently it takes 3 (out of 8) slots for an assault, and 2 (or 1 if bonused) slots (out of 6) for a scout. Would 2 slots (assaults) and 1 or 0 (scouts) be a more worthwhile trade for the benefit you gain, and therefore promote more varied fittings and combat styles? Or would it be OP? This could be achieved by swapping the Gal logi bonus from precision to cooldown reduction, for example. Question 2: Assuming a focussed scanner (Gal-Logi, or otherwise) has the precision to detect pretty much anybody, are the downsides to using this over a different scanner sufficient? Would they still be sufficient if other scanners were nerfed like in question 1? Would/is it sufficiently worthwhile playing the stealth/damped game, whilst still being scannable by focussed scanners in their current state? Do the drawbacks need to be increased? I suggest nerfing the range to 50m, but buffing the precision down to 15db if the Gal logi precision bonus replaced. Would that improve balance, or render focussed scanners obsolete?
Potential alternative to Q1: Keep profile, precision and dampener investment levels in place. Tune active scan mechanics such that "up time" becomes less prolific and more active effort and risk exposure are required on the part of the operator. |
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15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:I think it's balanced. Scouts with 1 damp can avoid all but focused scans. Scouts are the only ones that should even worry about scans. And damps can beat scans anyways. Fit more damps and the focused can't do anything. Scouts with one damp do not avoid all but focused scans. This only applies to Level 5 GA and CA Scouts.
Is this not common knowledge? |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: Potential alternative to Q1: Keep profile, precision and dampener investment levels in place. Tune active scan mechanics such that "up time" becomes less prolific and more active effort and risk exposure are required on the part of the operator.
Certainly. Options such as held beam scans or short snapshot scans. Though these ideas are less about encouraging counter play, and more about making scanning less something to worry about.
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Alcina Nektaria
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
321
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote: I suggest nerfing the range to 50m, but buffing the precision down to 15db if the Gal logi precision bonus replaced. Would that improve balance, or render focussed scanners obsolete?
You made SOME good points, but yes this would render them obsolete and cause a lot more problems for people complaining that they are "too op" because scouts can't drop below their scan precision.
Assaults should not fall under proto scan precision. Unless they want to play it like a scout with low EHP. Otherwise, there is a reason they are so easily scanned and that is because they are not intended for being a stealth class.
The problem here is not the scanner itself. It's the amount of people who run proto gear. (Whether it be full proto or just proto equipment/weapons).
Maybe a breakdown of roles would put things into perspective for people.
Scout - Stealthy recon assassins. They are quick and sneaky with powerful weapons to take down their most deadly opponents.
Assault - Maneuverability and high regen allow them to assist their team in taking down enemies at mid to close range while using cover around the environment to protect themselves.
Logi - Masters of ewar and support for their team. Their vital role is making sure their team is supplied with ammunition and a safe place to spawn upon clone termination. They can revive fallen players who hang in the balance of life and death and can repair armor of their allies. Logis use their equipment (active scanners) to make the team aware of threats on the battlefield.
Commando - specialists in vehicle AND infantry suppression, best if used at mid to long range with mid to long range weapons.
Sentinel - Masters of brute force and enemy suppression (supposedly) their high armor and heavy machine guns allow them to take on more than one enemy at a time while defending their teammates or objectives. Can also be used as full vehicle suppression.
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Nestil
Nos Nothi
340
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Posted - 2015.09.16 14:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
How about showing the guy scanning also on the enemy radar? I mean he is emitting such a strong electromagnetic wave (or whatever wave scanners emit) that other suits should be able to detect him as soons he uses the scanner. With that you could the the guy scanning you and you would be able to hunt him down or try avoiding him.. Maybe a dumb IDE..idk it just came up in my mind
'LR4-Trading' Protester
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15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nestil wrote:How about showing the guy scanning also on the enemy radar? I mean he is emitting such a strong electromagnetic wave (or whatever wave scanners emit) that other suits should be able to detect him as soons he uses the scanner. With that you could the the guy scanning you and you would be able to hunt him down or try avoiding him.. Maybe a dumb IDE..idk it just came up in my mind Would be cool immersion-wise to see the actual scan cone illuminated on screen. |
Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 17:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed.
I disagree with the notion that damps decrease combat effectiveness.
My standard Min scout fits 2 complex damps, complex code codebreaker, 3 enhanced shield extenders, Ishukone nova knives and an AR-18 cloak. 18 db profile.
I change out the codebreaker for an advanced ferroscale plate, now i have a 432 hp suit that can one hit kill anyone, undetectable to all but the amarr scout and the duvolle focused scanner on a Gal logi. Provided i dont walk straight into troulbe, i can ambush most any suit in the game.
I can plant a shotgun on there instead, and really cause some trouble.
The problem as i understand, regarding players who are primarily scouts, is that once they are picked up by a gal logi witha duvolle scanner, they show up to the entire enemy team. The idea behind scouts are that they are stealthy and picking and choosing you battles, you can always take a different route. It is much more difficult if you are lit up to 16 players rather than a squad of 4.
How those guys play rather is the invisible light assault. Low hp doesnt matter if you always shoot first, and the enemy never sees you coming. It works most of the time, because the Ewar and high alpha strikes are 9 times out of 10 on the scouts side. But when it stops working vs a duvolle focused on a gallente logi, they are on the losing side of ewar, and must change thier tactics.
Thats the trade off of being a specialist suit. Once your speciality is countered, you have to adapt or die. Some fits are pure speed, others are raw HP and remotes. Scouts can still be very combat effective withiout dampening. Difficult, and the most unreasonable difficulties need to be adresses. For me its the 200 m scan range. 70% of scanner qq, in my eyes, is whine, without any thought as too why the meta is the way it is, and a balanced move forward.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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maybe deadcatz
the nomercs
758
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Posted - 2015.09.16 18:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
FLUX GRENADE DISABLES ENEMY HUD AND TACNET RENDERING SCANS TEMPORALLY USELESS DEPENDING ON TIER OF FLUX USED. EASIST SOLUTION IN THE ENTIRE FRACKING THAT DOESNT NERF SCANNERS,INTRODUCES A HARD COUNTER,MAKES EXTRA USE OF FLUX GRENADES BEYOND STANDARD,AND GIVES SLIGHTLY IMPROVED REALISM TO THE HARDCORE PLAYERS.
VOTE YES TO FLUX BUFF AND END ALL SCANNER SPAMMER VICTIMS COMPLAINTS.
I do believe I'm done here. Now to go be a sour puss at home
'Perhaps fate will bless us,before this world opens its maw and swallows us'-space pirate encrypted log.
They all died.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.09.16 18:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed. Lol get a load of this guy!
Anywho, every scout except the Minmatar can get under the focused, if I remember correctly.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 18:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed. Lol get a load of this guy! Anywho, every scout except the Minmatar can get under the focused, if I remember correctly. My earlier post explains the situation. It's at the start so you don't have to read all of it. |
Vulpes Dolosus
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.16 19:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Three things I think will balance scanning:
1) Change the active scan results to be HUD only (no minimap) while being static and pulse/update every second. This will allow your team to see generally where enemies are but with very little accuracy (so you can drop an orbital and move to where a lot of enemies are but not time coming around a corner)
2) Make passives MiniMap only. This will only benefit teammates in the same vicinity as the scanner and will lower the accuracy of scans a bit (so you'll know someone is near but not exactly where.
3) Rebalance scanning falloff ranges for passives and introduce it for active scanning. Currently, you're losing half your effective scanning range due to falloff; the bonuses should go 10-15%/80%/100% range for the three. Similarly, active scanners should have falloff of more or less the same degrees.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 19:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Joel II X wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed. Lol get a load of this guy! Anywho, every scout except the Minmatar can get under the focused, if I remember correctly. My earlier post explains the situation. It's at the start so you don't have to read all of it. Vouching for Varoth's numbers.
@ Buff Cloak Active Damp Bonus IMO, we should be careful not to return high hitpoint, scan resistant scouts to play. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 19:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Come on Tesfa, profile dampeners do reduce combat effectiveness, they take up a module slot.
To be honest, I'm not completely sure the current dampener requirment to hide from scans is too much. However, based on the threads on the forums recently, it does seem that a fair number of people feel it is. And it's not about scouts specifically. Saxonmish is annoyed that he has to fit 3 damps on his assault to hide, as are plenty of others. There really isn't much difference between a dampened scout and a dampened assault. Look at these fits for comparison:
CQC Stealth Min Assault
CQC Stealth Gal Scout
Swapping one damp on each of those suits for something else is unlikely to be OP, especially since they are still vulnerable to the focussed scanner and some passives. Being undetected is a good advantage, but it's not the I-win button some people seem to think it is.
As for focussed scanners, I completely agree with changing strategies and counter-play. If you are in a stealthy suit, and find yourself getting foccused scanned, time to try a different strategy, no problem. Though I'd like to see some of your fits for scouts who are effective whilst scanned. I suspect you'd be better off with a different suit. The only thing I can think of would be a speed hacking Min scout. However, speed hacking is quite difficult when scanned. So I probably wouldn't use a scout.
That's ok though, but the counter-play needs to continue. What can be done to make the enemy scan user drop the focussed scanning for a different scanner? A focussed scanner is still pretty useful for scanning non-stealthed suits. The logi is probably quite happy sticking with it.
If there was a bit more of a drawback for using the focussed, such as my suggestion of shorter range, then once it became clear the enemy had given up on stealth, the logi wouldn't want to stick with the short range, long cooldown, foccussed scanner. He'd want to switch back to something better for providing general recon.
The other team would then find themselves being scanned more often and noticibly further out. Time to try stealth again to get in under the scans.
At least, this is the ideal I have in mind. As I said, I'm not too upset with the current balance. I think it could be improved, but it's not terrible. Scouts could do with a cloak buff to get them a bit more competetive (thinking delay or shimmer, rather than dampening). But otherwise, most of my comments on the subject are prompted by what others are saying.
In terms of fitting variety. It would be nice to see more assaults using dampeners. And raising the required profile for stealth would make passive scanning (which generally operates at higher db) more important. However I have seen some evidence of dampened assaults. There's a great PC vid of Silver from Random Gunz destroying a PC in a triple damped Min assault. He also says he feels it's much better than a scout (not saying I agree). |
BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
191
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed.
Have you played PC lately??? Scouts do not need a buff.
Scouts are way overpowered with myos broken the way they are. They can close the gap on your passive sensors in a single jump as a gal scout while firing their shotgun twice. Zero suits in the game can detect them doing it until you are already either dead or one more shot from it. If anything until myos get fixed stronger passive detection is needed. Its fair when they have to run at you so you have some time to react not when they jump switch to shotty midair and back shoot you twice before they are even a red dot on your screen. Scouts are for scouting so maybe its time they got back to doing that instead of being invisible shotgun assaults. I don't mid a scout being able to defend itself, but scouts should not regularly be trying to 1v1 assaults and heavies. Couple this with 600+ melee damage.....
Nah, even as guy that runs scouts about 30% of the time I can tell you right now they are a little out of alignment with their role. Too much DPS an not enough risk. If you want to get up behind a guy it should be a matter of strategic play not simply mashing cloak. Killing the unobservant is one thing, killing everyone is the definition out of balance. |
BARAGAMOS
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
191
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Come on Tesfa, profile dampeners do reduce combat effectiveness, they take up a module slot.
Saxonmish is annoyed that he has to fit 3 damps on his assault to hide, as are plenty of others. There really isn't much difference between a dampened scout and a dampened assault. Look at these fits for comparison:
This alone coming from a guy who only wants to pad K/D and flank camp tells you how important "hiding" is. Honestly, don't run an assault if you need to "hide". Let the scouts do that, and honestly...this guy needs to actually try hacking something. Hide as an assault......WTF. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think you'll find the myo users are generally assaults. |
Mejt0
Made in Poland... E-R-A
2
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Posted - 2015.09.16 20:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
1) Make them active (see vehicle scans) 2) All equiped scanners should share one "use" (once used all equiped scanners go on cooldown)
It's about perma scanning and how you are free (scan and then you can do other thing while everything lights up like on Christmas) after scanning, not the ability to scan.
Modern society is lacking in empathy
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RedPencil
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
203
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not sure what are we try to achieve on this thread, but allow me to correct some information and give out my opinion.
@Tesfa Alem Many scout give up on damp or switch to mid frame because the falloff ewar. Short range passive scan is so strong, and only 1 precision on mid frame is enough to see anything. Not a single one can get under short range passive undetected even gal scout.
- Gallente are ewar specialists. The best at detection and the best at evading detection. [ Legit ]
- Every Scout with two dampeners can beat all scanners on all suits, except on the Duvolle focused on the Gallente Logi. Otherwise no active scan can pick you up. [To be correct, you need 2 complex damp + skill lv5 on scout to beat all active scan except focus scan on gal logi]
- Every medium frame can beat every Adv scanner and standard scanner. [ Legit ]
- The Gallente logi with the duvolle focused scanner can pick up all of the scouts except the Gallente scout. [ Legit, but it is similar to your point above.... ]
- Every scout can get under the medium and long range passive scans of all suits except the Amarr scout. [ Totally bias, mid frame can do the same! ]
- Scouts need an ewar counter that isnt other scouts. However, in order to catch the suits with the lowest profile, you will catch anything that is higher than a scout. So all medium and heavy frames gets detected. [ I don't see any point on this statement ]
- Active scanning tells players they have been detected, but could be anywhere between 100 - 200 meters away. On many maps, this is the majority of the battlefield between the redlines. [ Legit, this is how many merc create chaos in a city from their safe spot outside the wall ]
- Passive scans allow players to see through walls just as well as active scans, but at much shorter ranges. It doesn't tell players they have been detected. [ Legit ]
- Active scans are shared with a team and are active a short period of time. [ Legit ]
- Passive scans are shared with a squad and are permanently active. [Passive scans are shared with the whole team. Here is a prove from CCP Rat ]
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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RedPencil
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
203
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Posted - 2015.09.16 21:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:1) Make them active (see vehicle scans) 2) All equiped scanners should share one "use" (once used all equiped scanners go on cooldown)
It's about perma scanning and how you are free (scan and then you can do other thing while everything lights up like on Christmas) after scanning, not the ability to scan.
And then forum start to cry because that scan nerf
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.17 00:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Not sure what are we try to achieve on this thread, but allow me to correct some information and give out my opinion.
- Every Scout with two dampeners can beat all scanners on all suits, except on the Duvolle focused on the Gallente Logi. Otherwise no active scan can pick you up. [To be correct, you need 2 complex damp + skill lv5 on scout to beat all active scan except focus scan on gal logi] - Scouts need an ewar counter that isnt other scouts. However, in order to catch the suits with the lowest profile, you will catch anything that is higher than a scout. So all medium and heavy frames gets detected. [ I don't see any point on this statement ] - Passive scans are shared with a squad and are permanently active. [Passive scans are shared with the whole team. Here is a prove from CCP Rat ]
Just to answer the above points.
I put this thread together have a solid basis for future discussions. They should be based on the meta objectivley instead of the usual anectdotal qq such as "scans are OP Nerf them" or "scans are just fine"
1st statement, The lowest profile scanern, the Duvolle focused scan picks up 20 db and up. Only with the gal logi does it go down to 15 db. My level 3 gallente scout with two damps runs at 16 db. My level 5 min scout runs at 18 db. Bear in mind it is the only scout that has no ewar bonus.
You do not need a proto scout to beat all scanners. You do need 2 complex damps on a scout suit. 2 complex damps is enough to beat every scanner except the duvolle focused on a gal logi. A duvolle focused on all other suits will never pick you up.
2nd statement, its important that medium and heavy suits are brought up because thats the overwhelming majority of people who are scanned, and will see the "you have been scanned" far more often than scouts. They can be picked up by any suit, and almost any tier of active scanner will find them.
3rd statment: Passive scans are not shared with the team. I have already seen the link, and rattati says right above the chart that its a work in progress (WIP).
Otherwise, glad to see we agree on so many points.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.17 01:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
BARAGAMOS wrote:Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Edit- you want to balance this stuff????!!!!!
INCREASE CLOAK DAMP BONUS. Honestly it shouldn't take more than 1 damp. The moment it does, you sacrifice your whole suits effectiveness. The cloak should be buffed. Have you played PC lately??? Scouts do not need a buff. Scouts are way overpowered with myos broken the way they are. They can close the gap on your passive sensors in a single jump as a gal scout while firing their shotgun twice. Zero suits in the game can detect them doing it until you are already either dead or one more shot from it. If anything until myos get fixed stronger passive detection is needed. Its fair when they have to run at you so you have some time to react not when they jump switch to shotty midair and back shoot you twice before they are even a red dot on your screen. Scouts are for scouting so maybe its time they got back to doing that instead of being invisible shotgun assaults. I don't mid a scout being able to defend itself, but scouts should not regularly be trying to 1v1 assaults and heavies. Couple this with 600+ melee damage..... Nah, even as guy that runs scouts about 30% of the time I can tell you right now they are a little out of alignment with their role. Too much DPS an not enough risk. If you want to get up behind a guy it should be a matter of strategic play not simply mashing cloak. Killing the unobservant is one thing, killing everyone is the definition out of balance. Seriously doubt that efficiency data will back up any claims about Scouts being OP. Also, I don't see many Scouts running myofibs. Far more often, it's assaults you see maroing about the map.
Either way, run OP Scout suits (with myofibs or not) for a week in the High Mu queue and check back with us. There's a reason why many career-long scouts are running other frames and playing other games. I doubt seriously that the class is overperforming in any sense of the word; in fact, I think it more probable than not that they're underperforming. Things certainly aren't as bad as they were in early Uprising, but I suspect there's room in usage and efficiency stats for favorable improvements to scout play. And there's definitely room for improvement in terms of reestablishing class parity and roles. |
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