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WyrmHero1945
Finesse Soldiers
657
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Posted - 2015.09.15 16:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Use a scout suit. Caldari and Gallente offer the lowest scan profiles. With the skill at level 5 and 2 dampeners you can probably get past the GalLogi focused scanner. I don't know really. Why? Because I don't care about being scanned.
Don't you guys remember how beta radar worked? Radars were SHARED. If you had a scout in your team, and he detected everything, you'll see red dots all over in your radar at all times. There were always red dots in the radar, scouts if seen/targeted would appear on radar as well, and everybody would see them.
Now it's rare if there's a GalLogi on the other team, and if it is, you gotta think that he spent valuable SP for the ewar role. Did you spend anything on not getting seen? If scanners are nerfed in some way, how the **** I'm supposed to hunt you on my scout suit? Trade HP for range and precision modules? **** you!
Stop the nerf scanners trend ffs!
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.09.15 16:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
On a more serious note, this isn't the old CCP. Making whiny threads isn't going to change anything anymore.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
1
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Posted - 2015.09.15 16:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Preach!!! I only made some threads to nerf them to comfort the community while keeping my scan power but honestly, having to wait like a minute is enough with a focused scanner. Scans are fine imo
CEO of T-W-L
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Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.09.15 16:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Scanners play into EWAR and EWAR is in need of being revamped.
But hey, metaphorically saying "Sieg Heil" to the status quo is better than any revamp, so have at it.
I am a minotaur.
Beware my poop.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
75
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Scanners play into EWAR and EWAR is in need of being revamped.
But hey, metaphorically saying "Sieg Heil" to the status quo is better than any revamp, so have at it.
ITT: Scrub makes soft comparison between scan defenders and WWII losers, parents of said poster ashamed.
More at 11.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Kelc Ct'elpem
Nos Nothi
1
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
I also spent valuable SP into not being scannedGǪ more than a Gal Logi spends on scanners.
Gal Logi needs Proto Logi and access to proto scanner.
Minscout needs Proto Scout, Proto Damps, and Proto Cloak. You have to limit how you run a suit to beat those scans. The limitation on running an Gal Logi is not equal to these limitations. In short more reward for less risk.
Add to thatGǪ even if one beats the Scanner, the scanner still knows a scout is around somewhere thanks to that great warning.
Sure scanning has been worse in previous versions of the gameGǪ Perma passive scan by Installations, CRU, and SD was great times, but that does not mean that balancing things now should not be considered, especially since the entire EWAR system needs a look at.
Performing Rocket Surgery with my Flaylock, one head at a time
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Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:Scanners play into EWAR and EWAR is in need of being revamped.
But hey, metaphorically saying "Sieg Heil" to the status quo is better than any revamp, so have at it. ITT: Scrub makes soft comparison between scan defenders and WWII losers, parents of said poster ashamed. More at 11.
Sieg Heil sounds cooler than " long live" or"hail" or other comparable english phrases. But hey, get blinded by historical context that was in no way related to or implied by my post.
But hey, dumb things down to WWII and make the assumption that I was making a comparison to Naz-½s. It only showcases your inability to think critically.
My recommendation: stop being an intellectually deficit Amarrian sodomite and realize that, due to the circumstances of my birth, Pasipha+½ and Poseidon were already ashamed.
I am a minotaur.
Beware my poop.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or even better than a scout suit, put dampeners on your assault. Your still left with as many or more free slots than a scout. And you have way more hp and weapon bonuses.
3 profile damps on your assault will hide you from Gal logis unless they are using focused scans. But scouts can't really hide from them either so it doesn't matter. |
Summa Militum
Art.of.Death
Smart Deploy
749
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Posted - 2015.09.15 17:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Use a scout suit. Caldari and Gallente offer the lowest scan profiles. With the skill at level 5 and 2 dampeners you can probably get past the GalLogi focused scanner. I don't know really. Why? Because I don't care about being scanned.
Don't you guys remember how beta radar worked? Radars were SHARED. If you had a scout in your team, and he detected everything, you'll see red dots all over in your radar at all times. There were always red dots in the radar, scouts if seen/targeted would appear on radar as well, and everybody would see them.
Now it's rare if there's a GalLogi on the other team, and if it is, you gotta think that he spent valuable SP for the ewar role. Did you spend anything on not getting seen? If scanners are nerfed in some way, how the **** I'm supposed to hunt you on my scout suit? Trade HP for range and precision modules? **** you!
Stop the nerf scanners trend ffs!
A Level 5 Gallente Scout will need 3 Profile Dampener Modules in order to avoid the scans my GalLogi can provide using the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner. My Level 5 GalLogi with a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner has a scan precision of 15 dB. My Level 5 GalScout with two Complex Profile Dampeners has a scan profile of 16 dB.
In order to fully equip your suit to combat permascanning you would essentially have to gimp your suit to the point where you will not stand much of a chance in battle.
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death
Smart Deploy
749
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Posted - 2015.09.15 18:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Or even better than a scout suit, put dampeners on your assault. Your still left with as many or more free slots than a scout. And you have way more hp and weapon bonuses.
3 profile damps on your assault will hide you from Gal logis unless they are using focused scans. But scouts can't really hide from them either so it doesn't matter.
If I equip 5 Complex Profile Dampeners to my GalAss its scan profile is brought down to 18dB. The scan precision of a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner on my GalLogi is 15dB.
The scanner I most commonly use is the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner which has a scan precision of 21dB when used by my GalLogi. My GalAss requires 3 Complex Damage Modules in order to bring its Scan Profile down to 20dB so that it can avoid being detected by the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner.
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.15 19:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:
The scanner I most commonly use is the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner which has a scan precision of 21dB when used by my GalLogi. My GalAss requires 3 Complex Damage Modules in order to bring its Scan Profile down to 20dB so that it can avoid being detected by the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner.
Leaving you with 5 free slots.
My scout needs 2 damps to avoid the Gal logi flux scanner, leaving me with 4 free slots. |
Alcina Nektaria
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
314
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Posted - 2015.09.15 19:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Or even better than a scout suit, put dampeners on your assault. Your still left with as many or more free slots than a scout. And you have way more hp and weapon bonuses.
3 profile damps on your assault will hide you from Gal logis unless they are using focused scans. But scouts can't really hide from them either so it doesn't matter. If I equip 5 Complex Profile Dampeners to my GalAss its scan profile is brought down to 18dB. The scan precision of a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner on my GalLogi is 15dB. The scanner I most commonly use is the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner which has a scan precision of 21dB when used by my GalLogi. My GalAss requires 3 Complex Damage Modules in order to bring its Scan Profile down to 20dB so that it can avoid being detected by the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner.
My question is why are you trying to turn an assault suit into a scout suit? Why not run the scout suit which clearly has a passive bonus to being dampened?
Check Us Out!
KEQ and ROFL. Diplomat.
I lik 2 psh rd buttnz
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
9
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Posted - 2015.09.15 20:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Summa Militum wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Or even better than a scout suit, put dampeners on your assault. Your still left with as many or more free slots than a scout. And you have way more hp and weapon bonuses.
3 profile damps on your assault will hide you from Gal logis unless they are using focused scans. But scouts can't really hide from them either so it doesn't matter. If I equip 5 Complex Profile Dampeners to my GalAss its scan profile is brought down to 18dB. The scan precision of a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner on my GalLogi is 15dB. The scanner I most commonly use is the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner which has a scan precision of 21dB when used by my GalLogi. My GalAss requires 3 Complex Damage Modules in order to bring its Scan Profile down to 20dB so that it can avoid being detected by the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner. My question is why are you trying to turn an assault suit into a scout suit? Why not run the scout suit which clearly has a passive bonus to being dampened?
Looks like the only reason to run the two scout suits that have the Damp bonus is to beat the 15 dB scan, otherwise why not run the Dampened Assault and have the option of +700 hp?
MOAR Ladders
SpadeGǪ Remember your Warbarge
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
2
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Posted - 2015.09.15 20:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Once they make them like real active scanners, then ok.
Until then, they are broken.
Active scanner - see vehicle scanner
Modern society is lacking in empathy
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Summa Militum
Art.of.Death
Smart Deploy
749
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Posted - 2015.09.15 21:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alcina Nektaria wrote:Summa Militum wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Or even better than a scout suit, put dampeners on your assault. Your still left with as many or more free slots than a scout. And you have way more hp and weapon bonuses.
3 profile damps on your assault will hide you from Gal logis unless they are using focused scans. But scouts can't really hide from them either so it doesn't matter. If I equip 5 Complex Profile Dampeners to my GalAss its scan profile is brought down to 18dB. The scan precision of a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner on my GalLogi is 15dB. The scanner I most commonly use is the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner which has a scan precision of 21dB when used by my GalLogi. My GalAss requires 3 Complex Damage Modules in order to bring its Scan Profile down to 20dB so that it can avoid being detected by the CreoDron Flux Active Scanner. My question is why are you trying to turn an assault suit into a scout suit? Why not run the scout suit which clearly has a passive bonus to being dampened?
I am not trying to turn my Assault Suit into a Scout Suit. I just through that example out to show that if an Assault Suit equips the maximum number of Complex Profile Dampeners they are allowed then they still would not be able to avoid being detected by my GalLogi using a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner. |
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.09.15 21:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Once they make them like real active scanners, then ok.
Until then, they are broken.
Active scanner - see vehicle scanner
Active Scanner: a second of vulnerability whilst scanning in one direction.
Vehicle Scanner: high mobility and/or tank, 360 scans, ability to open for while scanning.
Apples and oranges.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.15 21:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
To suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Active Scanner system is to try and sweep the dirt under the rug.
1) The amount of sacrifice needed to dampen is significantly greater than the sacrifice needed to scan.
2) When EWAR changes went through, the Active Scanner remained untouched, creating further imbalance.
3) You can use multiple Active Scanners to negate the cooldown period and produce "always on" active scans.
4) With increase squad sizes in FW and PC, the number of Gal Logi w/ Duvolle Active Scan users per Teammate Receiving the Info has decreased significantly. In PC, just one is all that is needed to share with a whole team. If that is what they had intended that particular scanner to do, they would never have made it Squad Share vs. Team Share like the others.
By your logic, if two teams in PC each have one Gal Logi with a bunch of Duvolle scanners, then each team should have to field scouts to counter it. That is a very flawed argument.
There have been several sensible suggestions to changing the Active Scanner so that it can still be useful without providing such a significant benefit for so very little sacrifice.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.15 21:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
So we should all create **** fits in order to stay invisible to a single OP equipment (as long as its not a flux) ? No thanks. It goes against the core of the game and limit the fitting possibilities A LOT.
Learn to hunt by yourself. Use your eyes and get good ffs. Saying that you can't be a proper scout without scanners is so scrubby I'd be ashamed to use this as an argument.
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Mex-0
Corrosive Synergy
873
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Press Attache wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:Scanners play into EWAR and EWAR is in need of being revamped.
But hey, metaphorically saying "Sieg Heil" to the status quo is better than any revamp, so have at it. ITT: Scrub makes soft comparison between scan defenders and WWII losers, parents of said poster ashamed. More at 11. Sieg Heil sounds cooler than " long live" or"hail" or other comparable english phrases. But hey, get blinded by historical context that was in no way related to or implied by my post. But hey, dumb things down to WWII and make the assumption that I was making a comparison to Naz-½s. It only showcases your inability to think critically. My recommendation: stop being an intellectually deficit Amarrian sodomite and realize that, due to the circumstances of my birth, Pasipha+½ and Poseidon were already ashamed.
But hey, at least you have horns.
HELLO
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Summa Militum wrote:WyrmHero1945 wrote:Use a scout suit. Caldari and Gallente offer the lowest scan profiles. With the skill at level 5 and 2 dampeners you can probably get past the GalLogi focused scanner. I don't know really. Why? Because I don't care about being scanned.
Don't you guys remember how beta radar worked? Radars were SHARED. If you had a scout in your team, and he detected everything, you'll see red dots all over in your radar at all times. There were always red dots in the radar, scouts if seen/targeted would appear on radar as well, and everybody would see them.
Now it's rare if there's a GalLogi on the other team, and if it is, you gotta think that he spent valuable SP for the ewar role. Did you spend anything on not getting seen? If scanners are nerfed in some way, how the **** I'm supposed to hunt you on my scout suit? Trade HP for range and precision modules? **** you!
Stop the nerf scanners trend ffs!
A Level 5 Gallente Scout will need 3 Profile Dampener Modules in order to avoid the scans my GalLogi can provide using the Duvolle Focused Active Scanner. My Level 5 GalLogi with a Duvolle Focused Active Scanner has a scan precision of 15 dB. My Level 5 GalScout with two Complex Profile Dampeners has a scan profile of 16 dB. In order to fully equip your suit to combat permascanning you would essentially have to gimp your suit to the point where you will not stand much of a chance in battle.
You aren't supposed to be engaged in battle with that fit. You're supposed to assassinate that logi.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:To suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Active Scanner system is to try and sweep the dirt under the rug.
1) The amount of sacrifice needed to dampen is significantly greater than the sacrifice needed to scan.
2) When EWAR changes went through, the Active Scanner remained untouched, creating further imbalance.
3) You can use multiple Active Scanners to negate the cooldown period and produce "always on" active scans.
4) With increase squad sizes in FW and PC, the number of Gal Logi w/ Duvolle Active Scan users per Teammate Receiving the Info has decreased significantly. In PC, just one is all that is needed to share with a whole team. If that is what they had intended that particular scanner to do, they would never have made it Squad Share vs. Team Share like the others.
By your logic, if two teams in PC each have one Gal Logi with a bunch of Duvolle scanners, then each team should have to field scouts to counter it. That is a very flawed argument.
There have been several sensible suggestions to changing the Active Scanner so that it can still be useful without providing such a significant benefit for so very little sacrifice.
If two teams field tanks they'd need to field AV as well...see where this is going? If you want to counter something, yes, you must field the counters.
Any frame, btw, can visually spot a GalLogi and call him out to the team. TW is OP.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Death Shadow117
Wolf Pack Special Forces
Rise Of Legion.
727
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 01:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
The problem isn't scanning its being perms scanned the entire game. If equipment had charges (ammo) itd be better but being able to scan people unlimitedly at 15 db is kinda dumb (it takes 3 cplx damps and lvl 5 galscout to be able to get under that) and just running a scout suit doesn't fix the problem it actually hinders you more when they do find you cause if you fit damps you gimp your suit ( I really don't care I run all bottles on my minscout) |
el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:The problem isn't scanning its being perms scanned the entire game. If equipment had charges (ammo) itd be better but being able to scan people unlimitedly at 15 db is kinda dumb (it takes 3 cplx damps and lvl 5 galscout to be able to get under that) and just running a scout suit doesn't fix the problem it actually hinders you more when they do find you cause if you fit damps you gimp your suit ( I really don't care I run all bottles on my minscout)
Seriously, if you're being scanned repeatedly then either accept that you'll be detected and plan your spawning accordingly OR pull back from the area and find a different solution to whatever your objective is.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 01:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Use a scout suit. Caldari and Gallente offer the lowest scan profiles. With the skill at level 5 and 2 dampeners you can probably get past the GalLogi focused scanner. I don't know really. Why? Because I don't care about being scanned.
Don't you guys remember how beta radar worked? Radars were SHARED. If you had a scout in your team, and he detected everything, you'll see red dots all over in your radar at all times. There were always red dots in the radar, scouts if seen/targeted would appear on radar as well, and everybody would see them.
Now it's rare if there's a GalLogi on the other team, and if it is, you gotta think that he spent valuable SP for the ewar role. Did you spend anything on not getting seen? If scanners are nerfed in some way, how the **** I'm supposed to hunt you on my scout suit? Trade HP for range and precision modules? **** you!
Stop the nerf scanners trend ffs!
Quick fact check (just in case):
Last year's Scout shared its passive scans squadwide with up to a maximum of five other players. Recon Scout passives were ruled to be OP, heavily nerfed, and their former function is today being filled by the GalLogi.
This year's Active Scans are shared teamwide. The only exception is the Duvolle Focused Scanner which shares results only with squad (though squad sizes today can now reach higher counts than before).
May have misread the OP, but thought I should clear up the above points. Passive Scans have been shared with Squad since Uprising.
My two cents:
Today's Recon GalLogis are easy mode compared to yesterday's paperthin (~250HP) Recon Scouts. They get a lot more done with a lot less effort and risk exposure. I personally think that Permascan is imbalanced at any risk level and would very much like to see it fixed. |
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 01:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:One Eyed King wrote:To suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Active Scanner system is to try and sweep the dirt under the rug.
1) The amount of sacrifice needed to dampen is significantly greater than the sacrifice needed to scan.
2) When EWAR changes went through, the Active Scanner remained untouched, creating further imbalance.
3) You can use multiple Active Scanners to negate the cooldown period and produce "always on" active scans.
4) With increase squad sizes in FW and PC, the number of Gal Logi w/ Duvolle Active Scan users per Teammate Receiving the Info has decreased significantly. In PC, just one is all that is needed to share with a whole team. If that is what they had intended that particular scanner to do, they would never have made it Squad Share vs. Team Share like the others.
By your logic, if two teams in PC each have one Gal Logi with a bunch of Duvolle scanners, then each team should have to field scouts to counter it. That is a very flawed argument.
There have been several sensible suggestions to changing the Active Scanner so that it can still be useful without providing such a significant benefit for so very little sacrifice. If two teams field tanks they'd need to field AV as well...see where this is going? If you want to counter something, yes, you must field the counters. Any frame, btw, can visually spot a GalLogi and call him out to the team. TW is OP.
The problem becomes when the risk/rewards become imbalanced.
With Active Scanners, the risks are little, the benefits great, and the necessary counters are extreme with little reward and significantly greater risk and cost.
Scouts had counters when they were spammed, it was other scouts. That was a crap meta. Forcing everyone into one play style because of a single piece of EQ is likewise a crap meta.
There are plenty of ways to make Active Scans balanced and useful, so maybe instead of dragging your feet about changes, you could promote and suggest some that may alleviate some of the reasonable abuses and balance issues regarding the Active Scanners.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 02:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:
There are plenty of ways to make Active Scans balanced and useful, so maybe instead of dragging your feet about changes, you could promote and suggest some that may alleviate some of the reasonable abuses and balance issues regarding the Active Scanners.
^ my thoughts exactly. |
WyrmHero1945
Finesse Soldiers
665
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 02:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:So we should all create **** fits in order to stay invisible to a single OP equipment (as long as its not a flux) ? No thanks. It goes against the core of the game and limit the fitting possibilities A LOT.
Learn to hunt by yourself. Use your eyes and get good ffs. Saying that you can't be a proper scout without scanners is so scrubby I'd be ashamed to use this as an argument.
I rather use assault then. It's not a matter of being scrubby or not: scouts are weak. But they can be pretty deadly if enemy positions are known. Scan->choose the best assassination route->kill. It's the best way to play scout imo. But if you're playing scouts in a different way and have a greater than 1 K/D ratio then congratulations you're a good player. |
el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:el OPERATOR wrote:One Eyed King wrote:To suggest that there is nothing wrong with the Active Scanner system is to try and sweep the dirt under the rug.
1) The amount of sacrifice needed to dampen is significantly greater than the sacrifice needed to scan.
2) When EWAR changes went through, the Active Scanner remained untouched, creating further imbalance.
3) You can use multiple Active Scanners to negate the cooldown period and produce "always on" active scans.
4) With increase squad sizes in FW and PC, the number of Gal Logi w/ Duvolle Active Scan users per Teammate Receiving the Info has decreased significantly. In PC, just one is all that is needed to share with a whole team. If that is what they had intended that particular scanner to do, they would never have made it Squad Share vs. Team Share like the others.
By your logic, if two teams in PC each have one Gal Logi with a bunch of Duvolle scanners, then each team should have to field scouts to counter it. That is a very flawed argument.
There have been several sensible suggestions to changing the Active Scanner so that it can still be useful without providing such a significant benefit for so very little sacrifice. If two teams field tanks they'd need to field AV as well...see where this is going? If you want to counter something, yes, you must field the counters. Any frame, btw, can visually spot a GalLogi and call him out to the team. TW is OP. The problem becomes when the risk/rewards become imbalanced. With Active Scanners, the risks are little, the benefits great, and the necessary counters are extreme with little reward and significantly greater risk and cost. Scouts had counters when they were spammed, it was other scouts. That was a crap meta. Forcing everyone into one play style because of a single piece of EQ is likewise a crap meta. There are plenty of ways to make Active Scans balanced and useful, so maybe instead of dragging your feet about changes, you could promote and suggest some that may alleviate some of the reasonable abuses and balance issues regarding the Active Scanners.
Well, I'm pretty sure you know I'm no stranger to the scan debate. Also pretty sure you're not either and that being the case you recognize that while I have defended the scans as they've been for a while now I have also made no shortage of suggestions for handling the "issue". Things like- Adding Content in the form of additional EWAR implements for disruption of scans, both as nade for the individual and carried eq for a group, lent support to Kirk's idea to add/integrate falloff and yes, elevated the Scout role to a recon/assassin by suggesting its use as such (as intended). I'm well aware of the potency of scans, ezpecially when the user is allowed to persist unchecked as well as the limitations of the frame involved (GalLogi) in question when outfitted for a counter-recon role and IME there are many. Just like any other singularly purpose-built full proto frame.
And unlike the actually permascanning constantly in a 360-¦ arc entire class of Scout frames of 1.8, the frame and equipment combo in question is One frame, easily detectable by its peers OR ANY Scout outfitted to detect it and must stop, hold its position and stand there while he uses the equipment in ONE direction lighting unprepared targets for mere seconds versus undetectable units outside their class running all across the map at some of the fastest speeds available, with the highest jump heights available (so using many portions of terrain physically unavailable to any one else), often invisible and at any point in time able to engage targets with NO interruption to the actual permascans being created.
One of these things is NOT like the other. And the constant insistent drumming of comparison is disingenuous to the point of intentionally fradulent.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 03:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
I've also suggested several times that base profiles between classes be moved closer together to allow for more passive module interplay.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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el OPERATOR
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 04:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Quick fact check (just in case):
Last year's Scout shared its passive scans squadwide with up to a maximum of five other players. Recon Scout passives were ruled to be OP, heavily nerfed, and their former function is today being filled by the GalLogi.
This year's Active Scans are shared teamwide. The only exception is the Duvolle Focused Scanner which shares results only with squad (though squad sizes today can now reach higher counts than before).
May have misread the OP, but thought I should clear up the above points. Passive Scans have been shared with Squad since Uprising.
My two cents:
Today's Recon GalLogis are easy mode compared to yesterday's paperthin (~250HP) Recon Scouts. They get a lot more done with a lot less effort and risk exposure. I personally think that Permascan is imbalanced at any risk level and would very much like to see it fixed.
This be cray.
Open-Beta Vet.
CAPCRO Nomad.
DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR
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pegasis prime
Darken's Forge and Trade
2
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Posted - 2015.09.16 09:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:Use a scout suit. Caldari and Gallente offer the lowest scan profiles. With the skill at level 5 and 2 dampeners you can probably get past the GalLogi focused scanner. I don't know really. Why? Because I don't care about being scanned.
Don't you guys remember how beta radar worked? Radars were SHARED. If you had a scout in your team, and he detected everything, you'll see red dots all over in your radar at all times. There were always red dots in the radar, scouts if seen/targeted would appear on radar as well, and everybody would see them.
Now it's rare if there's a GalLogi on the other team, and if it is, you gotta think that he spent valuable SP for the ewar role. Did you spend anything on not getting seen? If scanners are nerfed in some way, how the **** I'm supposed to hunt you on my scout suit? Trade HP for range and precision modules? **** you!
Stop the nerf scanners trend ffs!
I got as far as your first scentance and thought what pish I have maxed cal scout with maxed ewar . if you want to beat the gal logo focused scanner you need 2 complex damps and an active cloak other wise your ******. Scanners need toned down a notch .
Proud Caldari purist .
I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
2
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Posted - 2015.09.16 11:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Mejt0 wrote:Once they make them like real active scanners, then ok.
Until then, they are broken.
Active scanner - see vehicle scanner Active Scanner: a second of vulnerability whilst scanning in one direction. Vehicle Scanner: high mobility and/or tank, 360 scans, ability to open for while scanning. Apples and oranges.
Active scanner should work like vehicle scanner. Once it's done scanning, it's on cooldown without highlighted dots afterwards.
Its scan angle shouldn't change.
They should be like compact vehicle scanner
Modern society is lacking in empathy
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 11:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:
And unlike the actually permascanning constantly in a 360-¦ arc entire class of Scout frames of 1.8, the frame and equipment combo in question is One frame, easily detectable by its peers OR ANY Scout outfitted to detect it and must stop, hold its position and stand there while he uses the equipment in ONE direction lighting unprepared targets for mere seconds versus undetectable units outside their class running all across the map at some of the fastest speeds available, with the highest jump heights available (so using many portions of terrain physically unavailable to any one else), often invisible and at any point in time able to engage targets with NO interruption to the actual permascans being created.
One of these things is NOT like the other. And the constant insistent drumming of comparison is disingenuous to the point of intentionally fradulent.
There's really no fraud or funny business here. I'll attempt to explain.
Permascan means permanently scanned. This state of play is readily recognized by scanees today as "you've been scanned" is more-or-less permanently displayed on the scanee's HUD. In this regard, this year's permascan (while still a problem) is an improvement over last year's permascan, as the scanee is advised when painted.
When I run my GalLogi in tight Ambush map (the bridge map or pipe map, for example), my active scans alone can keep the vast majority of the opposing team under scan for the vast majority of the battle. Adding a second GalLogi in these settings would be overkill. This is quite different from the old Recon Scouts, as their scans (while extremely potent) were confined to squad. Last year, team-wide omniscience would've required 3 squads with a Recon Scout in each; this year, team omniscience costs only one unit. In this regard, this year's permascan is worse than last year's.
Permascan in any form makes for binary, less-than-tactical, oft-lopsided gameplay. Passive permascan was fixed for good reason. I can think of no good reason not to also fix active permascan. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
15
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Posted - 2015.09.16 11:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
el OPERATOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Quick fact check (just in case):
Last year's Scout shared its passive scans squadwide with up to a maximum of five other players. Recon Scout passives were ruled to be OP, heavily nerfed, and their former function is today being filled by the GalLogi.
This year's Active Scans are shared teamwide. The only exception is the Duvolle Focused Scanner which shares results only with squad (though squad sizes today can now reach higher counts than before).
May have misread the OP, but thought I should clear up the above points. Passive Scans have been shared with Squad since Uprising.
My two cents:
Today's Recon GalLogis are easy mode compared to yesterday's paperthin (~250HP) Recon Scouts. They get a lot more done with a lot less effort and risk exposure. I personally think that Permascan is imbalanced at any risk level and would very much like to see it fixed. This be cray.
What about that is cray? |
Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
75
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Press Attache wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:Scanners play into EWAR and EWAR is in need of being revamped.
But hey, metaphorically saying "Sieg Heil" to the status quo is better than any revamp, so have at it. ITT: Scrub makes soft comparison between scan defenders and WWII losers, parents of said poster ashamed. More at 11. Sieg Heil sounds cooler than " long live" or"hail" or other comparable english phrases. But hey, get blinded by historical context that was in no way related to or implied by my post. But hey, dumb things down to WWII and make the assumption that I was making a comparison to Naz-½s. It only showcases your inability to think critically. My recommendation: stop being an intellectually deficit Amarrian sodomite and realize that, due to the circumstances of my birth, Pasipha+½ and Poseidon were already ashamed.
Except seig heil means hail victory, which in the context you put it in makes less than no sense as you described it.
My recommendation: run a spell check, or learn the difference between deficit and deficient, especially when you are trying to over justify your soft NSDAP reference.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 13:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Mejt0 wrote:Once they make them like real active scanners, then ok.
Until then, they are broken.
Active scanner - see vehicle scanner Active Scanner: a second of vulnerability whilst scanning in one direction. Vehicle Scanner: high mobility and/or tank, 360 scans, ability to open for while scanning. Apples and oranges. Active scanner should work like vehicle scanner. Once it's done scanning, it's on cooldown without highlighted dots afterwards. Its scan angle shouldn't change. They should be like compact vehicle scanner
It does...
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
8
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Posted - 2015.09.16 16:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Mejt0 wrote:Once they make them like real active scanners, then ok.
Until then, they are broken.
Active scanner - see vehicle scanner Active Scanner: a second of vulnerability whilst scanning in one direction. Vehicle Scanner: high mobility and/or tank, 360 scans, ability to open for while scanning. Apples and oranges. Active scanner should work like vehicle scanner. Once it's done scanning, it's on cooldown without highlighted dots afterwards. Its scan angle shouldn't change. They should be like compact vehicle scanner
If it were like that, then the scans would either A) only scan for a second each, or B) have the ability to 360 scan unless CCP were to implement a camera lock function which would make the game complete **** for Gallente Logistics.
Either way, it's a bad idea. The cycle of the scan is first you scan, then reds show up for X amount of time, all this while you wait for the cool down.
If I were to nerf scanners to make them similar to vehicles, I'd have a green ring and a red ring. Snap scan, reds show up for X amount of time, green ring depleted, cool down kicks in in the red ring. Rinse, repeat.
Also, return it to squad scans.
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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