DUST Search - Why not drop K/D and replace it with ISK efficiency?

All Channels

General Discussions

Why not drop K/D and replace it with ISK efficiency?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 161	Posted - 2015.09.10 01:24:00 - [1] - Quote Seems to me that one way to stop stat padding is to start actually tracking stats that matter. K/D has no effect on the actual game and in fact promotes very bad behavior. It is also a terrible measure of player effectiveness. ISK efficiency, however, gives a very clear picture of what as mercenaries we should be most concerned about. IS THE PLAYER MAKING MONEY??? Even as a CEO you would want guys that generate higher ISK amounts for corp taxes. It does no good to have a guy that goes 2:1 K/D, but in real games that's 10/5 and losing 350K ISK per game if they are running proto and still losing money even if its just advanced . Even 3:1 or 4:1 does not matter if you have to burn 2 million in proto gear to achieve it. I am just confused why we are tracking the wrong stat or why one that has no bearing on the game is even tracked. Not tracking K/D takes out incentives to pad K/D in pubs through stomping/syncing, gives less incentive to only redline snipe, and makes running proto a risk even for people with way too much money. It also makes a lot more sense flavor wise. We are mercenaries. Our cash flow is our most important feature. Even WP per death would be a better metric than K/D. I have pondered this for a long time and thought I would just mention it here.
Death Shadow117 Wolf Pack Special Forces Rise Of Legion. 705	Posted - 2015.09.10 01:36:00 - [2] - Quote +1 Also inb4 tryhard kd statpadders come in and derail this thread.
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3	Posted - 2015.09.10 01:41:00 - [3] - Quote K/D only matters when your looking at the slayer class. It'd pretty worthless yet non of the "k/D doesn't matter" proto stompers want it to be removed It's funny because when I suggested this month's ago I was immediately shot down Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C Playstation 4 = Future of Dust514.
Robert Conway Concordiat Mercenaries 669	Posted - 2015.09.10 01:44:00 - [4] - Quote Definitely wouldn't mind that. I don't like K/D even though I am positive. Yassavi Approved. -Aero Yassavi
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 01:47:00 - [5] - Quote I love the idea of ISK efficiency +1 Real CPM Platform
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:13:00 - [6] - Quote Revamp the entire leaderboard. Track stats per game mode Ambush - KD Assist WP Games Played/Won Skirm - Hacks Counters Games Played/Won Dom - Control Time Campfires made Games Played/Won Acquisition - Make something up TBD ringleader \| Yep Squad Spokesman
HOLY PERFECTION FINAL TRIBULATION 123	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:14:00 - [7] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Seems to me that one way to stop stat padding is to start actually tracking stats that matter. K/D has no effect on the actual game and in fact promotes very bad behavior. It is also a terrible measure of player effectiveness. ISK efficiency, however, gives a very clear picture of what as mercenaries we should be most concerned about. IS THE PLAYER MAKING MONEY??? Even as a CEO you would want guys that generate higher ISK amounts for corp taxes. It does no good to have a guy that goes 2:1 K/D, but in real games that's 10/5 and losing 350K ISK per game if they are running proto and still losing money even if its just advanced . Even 3:1 or 4:1 does not matter if you have to burn 2 million in proto gear to achieve it. I am just confused why we are tracking the wrong stat or why one that has no bearing on the game is even tracked. Not tracking K/D takes out incentives to pad K/D in pubs through stomping/syncing, gives less incentive to only redline snipe, and makes running proto a risk even for people with way too much money. It also makes a lot more sense flavor wise. We are mercenaries. Our cash flow is our most important feature. Even WP per death would be a better metric than K/D. I have pondered this for a long time and thought I would just mention it here. watch how fast people like Duna, and nameless leave the game **Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
xavier zor InTheDark 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:15:00 - [8] - Quote lets be realistic here. We have over 20 different and far more important core mechanics and bugs to fix before we start looking at minor things like the UI interface. sLaYeR unicus peritia, salvus perveniet elite InTheDark InTheDark doesn't need you!
axis alpha Neural Union 939	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:19:00 - [9] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Seems to me that one way to stop stat padding is to start actually tracking stats that matter. K/D has no effect on the actual game and in fact promotes very bad behavior. It is also a terrible measure of player effectiveness. ISK efficiency, however, gives a very clear picture of what as mercenaries we should be most concerned about. IS THE PLAYER MAKING MONEY??? Even as a CEO you would want guys that generate higher ISK amounts for corp taxes. It does no good to have a guy that goes 2:1 K/D, but in real games that's 10/5 and losing 350K ISK per game if they are running proto and still losing money even if its just advanced . Even 3:1 or 4:1 does not matter if you have to burn 2 million in proto gear to achieve it. I am just confused why we are tracking the wrong stat or why one that has no bearing on the game is even tracked. Not tracking K/D takes out incentives to pad K/D in pubs through stomping/syncing, gives less incentive to only redline snipe, and makes running proto a risk even for people with way too much money. It also makes a lot more sense flavor wise. We are mercenaries. Our cash flow is our most important feature. Even WP per death would be a better metric than K/D. I have pondered this for a long time and thought I would just mention it here. That's actually not a bad idea. Remove the kd all together. Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu. Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!
Death Shadow117 Wolf Pack Special Forces Rise Of Legion. 710	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:22:00 - [10] - Quote xavier zor wrote: lets be realistic here. We have over 20 different and far more important core mechanics and bugs to fix before we start looking at minor things like the UI interface. UI means User Interface, so you're being redundant saying UI Interface.

HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 843	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:23:00 - [11] - Quote Void Echo wrote: K/D only matters when your looking at the slayer class. It'd pretty worthless yet non of the "k/D doesn't matter" proto stompers want it to be removed It's funny because when I suggested this month's ago I was immediately shot down I will get shut down because big corps have been isk farming PC for years and have a endless river of isk. I know people with billions ( I have over a billion from grinding pubs solo ) and I've even heard some have over 100 billion tho never met someone who will admit it. Those with access to the river run full proto or officer nonstop because "why not?" Add to that them squading together and we have pub stomping. Even 4 high sp people running nothing but the best will almost always win the round carrying the team. I ran full officer for a couple days this was a result. http://imgur.com/L4VWE48 I am not that good...
KGB Sleep 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:24:00 - [12] - Quote This is actually a really good idea for Public Contracts. It would shift the focus to earning ISK and WP/SP rather than K/D padding. I have a feeling it would inspire people to continue to fight for the duration of the match as well. No K/D tracking until FW or PC might even help newer players stay longer since they can learn the game without being graded. How to do it...imo Freeze the current leaderboard as a Hall Of Fame or something with respect to those who play simply for K/D standings. Add tabs for FW and PC (or combined) and begin tracking those. Watch statwhores flock to FW and PC (increasing participation) and get their egos wrecked when they get TK'd for frowned upon behaviors. Redlinetank go boom. AFKchump shanked. 200m Redlinesniperdork shotgunned. Popcorn Because beer, that's why.
Shaun Iwairo Commando Perkone Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:26:00 - [13] - Quote Yes yes yes! What the hell good is a mercenary if they can't even fight efficiently anyway?
HOLY PERFECTION FINAL TRIBULATION 124	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:28:00 - [14] - Quote When were in traning academy why not call us cadets? **Wise people learn from their mistakes, the wisest person learns from others mistakes. Unfortunately i am too hard head
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 02:36:00 - [15] - Quote It'd be nice to have stats for everything you do. Drop uplinks that don't get players killed within three seconds? Boom, there's a stat for that. Provide uplinks or nanos at all? Bam! Snipe enemies near an objective? Booyah! Provide AOE area of denial that run enemies off from the objective or an area? Hello! Get rid of enemy links? You know it! CPM RESULTS SUMMERIZED
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 165	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:00:00 - [16] - Quote xavier zor wrote: lets be realistic here. We have over 20 different and far more important core mechanics and bugs to fix before we start looking at minor things like the UI interface. Notice the first kid worried about this has slayer in his sig.... Also, to remove the actual stat from your player profile would take about 20 minutes to code out if you were really worried about it looking good. So nice try on the misdirection. If this game is going to move forward it has to feel like a different kind of FPS. Tracking tired old stats that other games track when they are not even relevant to the game seems like a step in the wrong direction. We should be emphasizing the mercenary feel of the game. Not the same old stats COD or HALO tracks. Besides is it wrong for a guy to die 4 times trying to hack a point for the win instead of sitting back and nursing his K/D and watching the defeat screen pop up? It should depend on if he went ISK negative for the game not K/D to determine the answer to that. Any other metric would be better served on your profile, even win/lose ratio. The other stats such as WP/death or ISK efficiency would validate many other roles in the game. Don't get me wrong, I player slayer a great deal of the time and its not hard to queue into pubs with 3 other guys and stomp if you want or just snipe/tank/ADS for kills. So, its not even a good measure of usefulness to a team. Slaying is the hardest way to earn WPs and not always remotely the most useful. Even at 20 kills its still just 1000 WPs, and a logi can pump that out in no time DOING activities that usually contribute more to winning than the guy that goes 10/1 or even 20/1. Same for scouts.
Summa Militum Art.of.Death Smart Deploy 715	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:10:00 - [17] - Quote Why not just add ISK efficiency as a stat and still keep the KDR? I have a decent KDR (2.30) and I earned it while pretty much only running solo and by not ever padding my KDR. My KDR is legitimate and can be used as one of many factors to accurately make an assessment on how I play this game as a slayer. Plus what is to stop people from padding an ISK efficiency stat? I have already heard of people placing their own personal limitation on how much ISK they are willing to invest in a match before they give up; I have heard numbers as low as 100,000 ISK.
jordy mack WarRavens Imperium Eden 736	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:26:00 - [18] - Quote i suggested this a while ago aswell, seems most ppl are onboard Less QQ more PewPew
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 167	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:28:00 - [19] - Quote Summa Militum wrote: Why not just add ISK efficiency as a stat and still keep the KDR? I have a decent KDR (2.30) and I earned it while pretty much only running solo and by not ever padding my KDR. My KDR is legitimate and can be used as one of many factors to accurately make an assessment on how I play this game as a slayer. Plus what is to stop people from padding an ISK efficiency stat? I have already heard of people placing their own personal limitation on how much ISK they are willing to invest in a match before they give up; I have heard numbers as low as 100,000 ISK. Why keep it? Its meaningless in a game like this. Slayer is really a bad attitude toward the game. You can only win one game mode by slaying alone. You should be incented to do MORE. Slayers can't get into many fights if they have to spawn back at the MCC. The scout/logi or whatever that died to place those uplinks done more to win the game than a "slayer" going 10/1 with just one action. Not saying I don't understand the working on you K/D issue. I did as well, but now I find it really easy to go 20+/4 or less if you don't care about winning. Its even easier in squads, and the truth is if you are truly trying to win you will die a lot more often. Those one hit kills (knives, REs, shot guns, etc) will happen much more often if you in the thick of the battle, so its harder to safely pad K/D. You want people to put personal limitations on their ISK spending. If you are going to go ISK negative you are going to have to put your proto away or accept that your STATS will reflect it. For example I was in a game a couple days ago with Sax and killed him three times in his full get up. He still went 20/4 but in reality he never approached an actual objective and lost over a million ISK. So is 20/4 the stat that matters or the fact that you have to go bankrupt and not actually participate in trying to win to achieve that K/D. This does not affect the way someone choses to play the game, but it gives a better picture of the real players. Instead of incenting mercs to play team death match on the flanks every game and never get near an objective.
xavier zor InTheDark 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:28:00 - [20] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: xavier zor wrote: lets be realistic here. We have over 20 different and far more important core mechanics and bugs to fix before we start looking at minor things like the UI interface. Notice the first kid worried about this has slayer in his sig.... Also, to remove the actual stat from your player profile would take about 20 minutes to code out if you were really worried about it looking good. So nice try on the misdirection. If this game is going to move forward it has to feel like a different kind of FPS. Tracking tired old stats that other games track when they are not even relevant to the game seems like a step in the wrong direction. We should be emphasizing the mercenary feel of the game. Not the same old stats COD or HALO tracks. Besides is it wrong for a guy to die 4 times trying to hack a point for the win instead of sitting back and nursing his K/D and watching the defeat screen pop up? It should depend on if he went ISK negative for the game not K/D to determine the answer to that. Any other metric would be better served on your profile, even win/lose ratio. The other stats such as WP/death or ISK efficiency would validate many other roles in the game. Don't get me wrong, I player slayer a great deal of the time and its not hard to queue into pubs with 3 other guys and stomp if you want or just snipe/tank/ADS for kills. So, its not even a good measure of usefulness to a team. Slaying is the hardest way to earn WPs and not always remotely the most useful. Even at 20 kills its still just 1000 WPs, and a logi can pump that out in no time DOING activities that usually contribute more to winning than the guy that goes 10/1 or even 20/1. Same for scouts. they will have to add a whole new section on the leader boards, remove it form your player profile, change EoM screens, replace the KD/R algorithms....a HELL of a lot more than 20 minutes....lol you have never coded before by the looks of it. It isn't just about coding as well; you have to plan out the time it will take to code, state things in paperwork such as specification so the 'higher powers' in your workplace can review the code and confirm it does what is specified, error trapping is a huge one...and if an error is found it can be a pain to fix. no it doesn't just take 20 minutes buddy. sLaYeR unicus peritia, salvus perveniet elite InTheDark InTheDark doesn't need you!

BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 167	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:35:00 - [21] - Quote xavier zor wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: xavier zor wrote: lets be realistic here. We have over 20 different and far more important core mechanics and bugs to fix before we start looking at minor things like the UI interface. Notice the first kid worried about this has slayer in his sig.... Also, to remove the actual stat from your player profile would take about 20 minutes to code out if you were really worried about it looking good. So nice try on the misdirection. If this game is going to move forward it has to feel like a different kind of FPS. Tracking tired old stats that other games track when they are not even relevant to the game seems like a step in the wrong direction. We should be emphasizing the mercenary feel of the game. Not the same old stats COD or HALO tracks. Besides is it wrong for a guy to die 4 times trying to hack a point for the win instead of sitting back and nursing his K/D and watching the defeat screen pop up? It should depend on if he went ISK negative for the game not K/D to determine the answer to that. Any other metric would be better served on your profile, even win/lose ratio. The other stats such as WP/death or ISK efficiency would validate many other roles in the game. Don't get me wrong, I player slayer a great deal of the time and its not hard to queue into pubs with 3 other guys and stomp if you want or just snipe/tank/ADS for kills. So, its not even a good measure of usefulness to a team. Slaying is the hardest way to earn WPs and not always remotely the most useful. Even at 20 kills its still just 1000 WPs, and a logi can pump that out in no time DOING activities that usually contribute more to winning than the guy that goes 10/1 or even 20/1. Same for scouts. they will have to add a whole new section on the leader boards, remove it form your player profile, change EoM screens, replace the KD/R algorithms....a HELL of a lot more than 20 minutes....lol you have never coded before by the looks of it. It isn't just about coding as well; you have to plan out the time it will take to code, state things in paperwork such as specification so the 'higher powers' in your workplace can review the code and confirm it does what is specified, error trapping is a huge one...and if an error is found it can be a pain to fix. no it doesn't just take 20 minutes buddy. Funny but that undergrad degree in computer science hanging on my office wall makes me laugh at your ignorance. 20 minutes and done. Its not hard to stop items from tracking or posting. Sorry you like the pet stat but it has no place on a money based Roleplaying FPS. Obviously the vast majority of responders seem to like this for a reason. Because guys like you who only worry about one play style are killing the game on many levels. I love shooting as well, but the game is not won by simply slaying. Do you see K/D on eve???
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:39:00 - [22] - Quote Let's not argue now , lets keep this discussion healthy and see where it goes but I do believe that they should still keep the K/D stats in play , just not allow them to dictate the tempo of matches because they don't effect this game but in a negative way when you talk about team building and balance and before anyone tells me that MU doesn't take it into account , I'm talking about the attitude of most that continue to use high end gear versus lesser players instead of just using lesser gear as well , if their all that much better players , is it not enough to drop Q's on lesser players who for the most part are random while , your in a squad with coms and coordination ? Something needs to change because the old way just isn't working . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
xavier zor InTheDark 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:40:00 - [23] - Quote HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA OMG I AM CRYING SO HARD RIGHT NOW!!!1 LOL comparing a shooting FPS game to a strategic role playing game LOL!!!! 'Do you see KD in ~~Eve~~in a PC strategic role playing game with realistic economy? Hey, look I can say I am experienced and have a degree in computing as well. I have been coding mainly in C++ and variants for 14 years, with distinguished marks in several competitions I have taken place in. you must be 15, kids always think they know what they are talking about sLaYeR unicus peritia, salvus perveniet elite InTheDark InTheDark doesn't need you!
HOLY PERFECTION FINAL TRIBULATION 126	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:52:00 - [24] - Quote xavier zor wrote: HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA OMG I AM CRYING SO HARD RIGHT NOW!!!1 LOL comparing a shooting FPS game to a strategic role playing game LOL!!!! 'Do you see KD in ~~Eve~~in a PC strategic role playing game with realistic economy? Hey, look I can say I am experienced and have a degree in computing as well. I have been coding mainly in C++ and variants for 14 years, with distinguished marks in several competitions I have taken place in. you must be 15, kids always think they know what they are talking about you must be a stuck up ***** who thinks he knows everything a about us. Your name is in my professional opinion stupid, and I do not like you criticizing out idea. Go home and let us talk almighty satin. If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me. I'm really hard headed
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 168	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:54:00 - [25] - Quote xavier zor wrote: HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA OMG I AM CRYING SO HARD RIGHT NOW!!!1 LOL comparing a shooting FPS game to a strategic role playing game LOL!!!! 'Do you see KD in ~~Eve~~in a PC strategic role playing game with realistic economy? Hey, look I can say I am experienced and have a degree in computing as well. I have been coding mainly in C++ and variants for 14 years, with distinguished marks in several competitions I have taken place in. you must be 15, kids always think they know what they are talking about Not going to argue with the ignorant, or uneducated..."error trapping????" C++, Some high level language there, if you are working on a college project...but anyway sorry you are personally butt hurt that your favorite stat is under scrutiny. The bottom line is this is a RPG FPS, note the skill system and different roles. This game aspires to be a ground combat version of EVE, and tracking the wrong stats does not reinforce that feel. There is nothing wrong with shooting the hell out of the other team, its just tracking K/D gives the game the wrong feel and incents for actions that do not directly correspond into wins. As for the personal attacks, only one of us is acting like a 15 year old and blathering on about topics he obviously knows nothing about. Still chuckling though about the competitions....I'll stick to ACTUAL work experience in the field. Bottom line is still that K/D is giving players the wrong impression of what is important. End of game boards are fine, but tracking beyond that places emphasis on a part of the game that does not promote teamwork, winning, or the NPE.
xavier zor InTheDark 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 03:58:00 - [26] - Quote I am not talking to holy perfection, scrubby scammer. @Baragmos Your original argument was that it would take 20 minutes to implement.Then you started making things up to defend your scurbu-ass. It does not take 20 minutes to remove the KDR stat from start to finish. I am going to be the mature one here as always and leave it at that. sLaYeR unicus peritia, salvus perveniet elite InTheDark InTheDark doesn't need you!
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 168	Posted - 2015.09.10 04:05:00 - [27] - Quote xavier zor wrote: I am not talking to holy perfection, scrubby scammer. @Baragmos Your original argument was that it would take 20 minutes to implement.Then you started making things up to defend your scurbu-ass. It does not take 20 minutes to remove the KDR stat from start to finish. I am going to be the mature one here as always and leave it at that. It is only in one place on your profile. lol. 20 minutes is probably including a coffee break. Hell, you could just cover it with the background mesh and leave it there. Nothing wrong with leaving it everywhere else, so not only do you not have any real knowledge of coding you also seem to have some literacy issues as well. Read the posts kid, and TRY to understand the bigger issue here, or better yet just stop posting because your "scrubbiness" is cluttering up what was an other wise constructive discussion by real adults with real concerns.
HOLY PERFECTION FINAL TRIBULATION 126	Posted - 2015.09.10 04:10:00 - [28] - Quote xavier zor wrote: I am not talking to holy perfection, scrubby scammer. @Baragmos Your original argument was that it would take 20 minutes to implement.Then you started making things up to defend your scurbu-ass. It does not take 20 minutes to remove the KDR stat from start to finish. I am going to be the mature one here as always and leave it at that. ****NO OFFENCE TO ANYBODY EXCEPT XAVIER AND AND OTHER *** I DONT LIKE WHOS CALLED ME A SCAMMER** Xavier zor I'm not a scammer. And if your really going to be childish ill treat you like a child. Shut the up you stupid * no one likes your stupid ideas, ugly ass donkey face, eating *. Your a *** ** and nobody likes you, that's why your an orphan, you mom couldn't handle you. She seen your face and said, "ohh ". Since I'm going to get permabanned for all the curse words in the dictionary I'm going to speak my mind to all idiots who call me a scammer. you you no life scumbags, I'm legit and If your going to be a * do something about it. What are you going to do kill me in a game with a scramble rifle? You cannot do anything, half of you have no life ( no offence to people whos done me no harm ) I hate how most of the playerbase are fucktards who cannot get their heads out of CCP Rattatis *****. I respect only a few people in dust XxBlazikenxX Sushi Presedent Wu anybody from G.L.O.R.Y my close friend I play with in dust and forum buddies 07 / vehicle users If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me. I'm really hard headed
Summa Militum Art.of.Death Smart Deploy 715	Posted - 2015.09.10 06:13:00 - [29] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Summa Militum wrote: Why not just add ISK efficiency as a stat and still keep the KDR? I have a decent KDR (2.30) and I earned it while pretty much only running solo and by not ever padding my KDR. My KDR is legitimate and can be used as one of many factors to accurately make an assessment on how I play this game as a slayer. Plus what is to stop people from padding an ISK efficiency stat? I have already heard of people placing their own personal limitation on how much ISK they are willing to invest in a match before they give up; I have heard numbers as low as 100,000 ISK. Why keep it? Its meaningless in a game like this. Slayer is really a bad attitude toward the game. You can only win one game mode by slaying alone. You should be incented to do MORE. Slayers can't get into many fights if they have to spawn back at the MCC. The scout/logi or whatever that died to place those uplinks done more to win the game than a "slayer" going 10/1 with just one action. Not saying I don't understand the working on your K/D issue. I did as well, but now I find it really easy to go 20+/4 or less if you don't care about winning. Its even easier in squads, and the truth is if you are truly trying to win you will die a lot more often. Those one hit kills (knives, REs, shot guns, etc) will happen much more often if you in the thick of the battle, so its harder to safely pad K/D. You want people to put personal limitations on their ISK spending. If you are going to go ISK negative you are going to have to put your proto away or accept that your STATS will reflect it. For example I was in a game a couple days ago with Sax and killed him three times in his full get up. He still went 20/4 but in reality he never approached an actual objective and lost over a million ISK. So is 20/4 the stat that matters or the fact that you have to go bankrupt and not actually participate in trying to win to achieve that K/D. This does not affect the way someone choses to play the game, but it gives a better picture of the real players. Instead of incenting mercs to play team death match on the flanks every game and never get near an objective. To me it seems the problem you describe isn't with slaying but is with people who only play one role an entire match. I am a slayer at heart so when I am in my Logi suit putting down uplinks, nanohives, and permascaning the redberries, which I don't get WPs for because solo players are treated as second class citizens in this game, you better believe I am going to be slaying people. Same thing goes for when I am running around Skirmish maps in my squishy ninja-hack Scout suit you better believe I am going to be slaying people by shooting them in the back with my Tactical Assault Rifle. It goes without saying that my Assault, Sentinel, and Commando Suits slay redberries it just depends on the situation which one it will be. I usually cycle through on average about three different Gallente dropsuits a match with the mindset to slay almost every redberry I see while running it. I also think there is a problem with people focusing on the stats of individual games and not overall stats. My goal every match is to win and if I drop a million or more ISK in a match trying to win then I have no problem with that because I know I am going to have many more matches where I earn a bunch of ISK. I have the same viewpoint with my KDR. I can play one match with a KDR of 1/6 and not give a crap because I know I am going to have other matches where I will get 20+ kills without dying once. The problem in this game is people placing limitations as to how much they are willing to sacrifice to win the match. Take away KDR and people will just use another stat (ISK efficiency) to limit themselves by.
Vicious Minotaur 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 06:19:00 - [30] - Quote Or we could stop tracking stats all together and begin tracking moose. I am a minotaur. a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 06:29:00 - [31] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Or we could stop tracking stats all together and begin tracking moose. Or Minotaur ? Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 08:43:00 - [32] - Quote I could play BPO suits all day, do the same things I do in proto, and earn a lot of money. But what if I don't really care about ISKs and I want to burn them through officer and proto gears ? I'd have a terrible Isk/battle ratio by dying 2-3 times in a pub match even if I go 37/3 and carry my team on my own. I once thought this was a good idea, but nop, it doesn't have more sense than KD. Moreover, it'll have the same impact on gameplay than KD : people camping/sniping, not pushing the objectives because they are to affraid to lose both Isk ratio and KD. If you want a new and representative ratio, create the WP/battle ratio. WPs are what really defines the efficiency of a player by killing, hacking, "logiing", etc.. and are the sats that we should care more about ^^ And it doesn't have any cons ! Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 21	Posted - 2015.09.10 13:36:00 - [33] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Funny but that undergrad degree in computer science hanging on my office wall makes me laugh at your ignorance. 20 minutes and done. Its not hard to stop items from tracking or posting. Sorry you like the pet stat but it has no place on a money based Roleplaying FPS. Obviously the vast majority of responders seem to like this for a reason. Because guys like you who only worry about one play style are killing the game on many levels. I love shooting as well, but the game is not won by simply slaying. Do you see K/D on eve??? This isn't a money based roleplaying anything. It is a lobby shooter with some economics playing in the background. Ever since the apex suits came out isk efficiency means almost nothing. And yes the game is won by slaying. If you can't kill the proto squad near the objective, no amount of isk efficiency is going to get you the win. I get your point though, you can't slay, so you want to remove it as a metric to not feel bad about yourself. Just buy an apex suit and laugh at your isk efficiency compared to those playing to win. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 2	Posted - 2015.09.10 14:30:00 - [34] - Quote Removing kd/r will help this game so much. I'm serious, oh don't you duobt me. Because everybody plays for kd/r only. I will tell you why people in pubs play like they do : 1. Most pub players are under a wuss category 2. They save ISK because ???? help me with this one. Are they gonna build a snowman out of it? Modern society is lacking in empathy
Starlight Burner Black Screen Adaptation. 496	Posted - 2015.09.10 14:40:00 - [35] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Do you see K/D on eve??? No, but there is a Killboard and corporations deny you for dying too much or not killing enough. https://zkillboard.com/ CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
Starlight Burner Black Screen Adaptation. 497	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:02:00 - [36] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: If you want a new and representative ratio, create the WP/battle ratio. WPs are what really defines the efficiency of a player by killing, hacking, "logiing", etc.. and are the sats that we should care more about ^^ And it doesn't have any cons ! How do I tell how many times I've died? Because when I'm going hard I want to know how many suits I lost with estimated isk loss to adjust to lower tiers or not trying the rest of the match. Risk / reward is out of balance. Which created the problem we're in now. CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today! Thank you for DUST
howard sanchez Vader's-Fist The Empire of New Eden 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:02:00 - [37] - Quote The players that worship the KD stat and are hostile towards those players that recognize the true diversity and complexity of viable play styles in DUST, these people will not be swayed...they are young radicals who are effective at the small wedge of game experience they excel in. Dust needs slayers. Keep these guys at the front and focused on the color red. You get them posting on forums and great drama and confusion ensues. Only 26 letters in the alphabet but slayers use less than 15 on average. Don't get them riled up on forums please. I love the proposal for tracking isk efficiency and WP/clone. That would be amazing for the game. WP/clone, I believe, more closely mirrors MU than KDr ever will. Just don't get the fear and defensiveness stirred up amongst the slayer class. They really think they run dust and they'll rage quit if they believe they're not first in the lunchline.
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 22	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:27:00 - [38] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: The players that worship the KD stat and are hostile towards those players that recognize the true diversity and complexity of viable play styles in DUST, these people will not be swayed...they are young radicals who are effective at the small wedge of game experience they excel in. Dust needs slayers. Keep these guys at the front and focused on the color red. You get them posting on forums and great drama and confusion ensues. Only 26 letters in the alphabet but slayers use less than 15 on average. Don't get them riled up on forums please. I love the proposal for tracking isk efficiency and WP/clone. That would be amazing for the game. WP/clone, I believe, more closely mirrors MU than KDr ever will. Just don't get the fear and defensiveness stirred up amongst the slayer class. They really think they run dust and they'll rage quit if they believe they're not first in the lunchline. You can't talk down to people talking about k/d when you generate a measly 148 wp every time you die. Considering you have a sub .6 k\d, I expected a lot more wp out of you. The OP is better with his k/d, but his wp/d output is even worse than yours. For people jabbering about how other stats matter more, you guys both have crap stats in every category. I used to do nothing but mcc afk to farm SP before uprising launched and I play 90% of my matches solo, but I still have win loss ratios that eclipse both of you. All the stats matter, and you both have stats that would make people question what you actually being to the table. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
howard sanchez Vader's-Fist The Empire of New Eden 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:37:00 - [39] - Quote Press, maybe we should seriously consider your point. Do stats really reflect a players worth to a team? I am advocating for more diverse data from ccp for players about how they perform in game. But, if that data doesn't really reflect how much they contribute to the team than its all worthless...KD, WP, isk. I know this much: I enjoy playing Dust and I usually feel like I contribute positively to my team. I also believe that a lot of younger FPS players get overly focused on KD exclusively to the detriment of other WP generating efforts. You won't see a post from me,ever, declaring myself a dust pro, proto stomper, or 'better' at dust than most others. That's not my style. I find arrogance and elitism unattractive and counterproductive to team building.
Genral69 death RAT PATROL INC. 714	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:45:00 - [40] - Quote Why just why? Surly you know if you make profit in a match so why on earth would you need it to show up in stats, don't get me wrong its not a bad idea but there's nothing wrong with kdr so why bothering replacing it with something . For anyone about to abuse me of being a kdr padder , I honestly would say I enjoy looking at my kdr going up as competition between friends but id say I'm not a padder as I look at the risk of the situation. Not weather my kd would go up but weather its worth the risk. Is it worth the isk taking on several people on at once just for a possible hack (this often relies on green/blue support) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread

Count- -Crotchula TasteTheTamsen 965	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:48:00 - [41] - Quote I want all three stats!
argel999 T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 7	Posted - 2015.09.10 15:55:00 - [42] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Seems to me that one way to stop stat padding is to start actually tracking stats that matter. K/D has no effect on the actual game and in fact promotes very bad behavior. It is also a terrible measure of player effectiveness. ISK efficiency, however, gives a very clear picture of what as mercenaries we should be most concerned about. IS THE PLAYER MAKING MONEY??? Even as a CEO you would want guys that generate higher ISK amounts for corp taxes. It does no good to have a guy that goes 2:1 K/D, but in real games that's 10/5 and losing 350K ISK per game if they are running proto and still losing money even if its just advanced . Even 3:1 or 4:1 does not matter if you have to burn 2 million in proto gear to achieve it. I am just confused why we are tracking the wrong stat or why one that has no bearing on the game is even tracked. Not tracking K/D takes out incentives to pad K/D in pubs through stomping/syncing, gives less incentive to only redline snipe, and makes running proto a risk even for people with way too much money. It also makes a lot more sense flavor wise. We are mercenaries. Our cash flow is our most important feature. Even WP per death would be a better metric than K/D. I have pondered this for a long time and thought I would just mention it here. +1 to this, would be great a %ISK bonus depending by K/D ratio.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 177	Posted - 2015.09.10 17:11:00 - [43] - Quote Press Attache wrote: BARAGAMOS wrote: Funny but that undergrad degree in computer science hanging on my office wall makes me laugh at your ignorance. 20 minutes and done. Its not hard to stop items from tracking or posting. Sorry you like the pet stat but it has no place on a money based Roleplaying FPS. Obviously the vast majority of responders seem to like this for a reason. Because guys like you who only worry about one play style are killing the game on many levels. I love shooting as well, but the game is not won by simply slaying. Do you see K/D on eve??? This isn't a money based roleplaying anything. It is a lobby shooter with some economics playing in the background. Ever since the apex suits came out isk efficiency means almost nothing. And yes the game is won by slaying. If you can't kill the proto squad near the objective, no amount of isk efficiency is going to get you the win. I get your point though, you can't slay, so you want to remove it as a metric to not feel bad about yourself. Just buy an apex suit and laugh at your isk efficiency compared to those playing to win. Edit: Of course you see k\d in eve. In fact it was so important to players they built their own websites for it with all data. Dumbass my K/D is higher than yours... I have no issue slaying, but you obviously have trouble reading. K/D serves no purpose as a metric in this game and yes dumbass the financial motivation is what makes you a mercenary. Man the average IQ on here is like 50. The point is that even tracking K/D on your profile gives players incentive to adopt terrible play styles. Slaying alone will win you exactly one game mode. Like I said before, if you are spawning in the MCC all day you won't be slaying anyone, so someone has to place those links and hack the CRUs. The logi that reps the heavy and dies 5 times while the heavy goes 12/1 is just as important the actual gunner. And no kid, there is no K/D in EVE for a reason. Some kids care on EVE so they make their own websites for it. There are always going to be dim wits like you who miss the point of some things, so they track a useless stat to compensate for their bad play style. K/D contributes very little to a team's victory, and in fact, often hinder it. Sorry you have a pet metric that excuses your inability to actually be good at the game, which means going ISK positive over the long term. The real 'Slayers" will shine under that metric. The tryhards who crutch proto and officer will standout as posers because you cant point to an irrelevant stat to support your game play. K/D is a stat for games without an economy.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 177	Posted - 2015.09.10 17:26:00 - [44] - Quote Press Attache wrote: howard sanchez wrote: The players that worship the KD stat and are hostile towards those players that recognize the true diversity and complexity of viable play styles in DUST, these people will not be swayed...they are young radicals who are effective at the small wedge of game experience they excel in. Dust needs slayers. Keep these guys at the front and focused on the color red. You get them posting on forums and great drama and confusion ensues. Only 26 letters in the alphabet but slayers use less than 15 on average. Don't get them riled up on forums please. I love the proposal for tracking isk efficiency and WP/clone. That would be amazing for the game. WP/clone, I believe, more closely mirrors MU than KDr ever will. Just don't get the fear and defensiveness stirred up amongst the slayer class. They really think they run dust and they'll rage quit if they believe they're not first in the lunchline. You can't talk down to people talking about k/d when you generate a measly 148 wp every time you die. Considering you have a sub .6 k\d, I expected a lot more wp out of you. The OP is better with his k/d, but his wp/d output is even worse than yours. For people jabbering about how other stats matter more, you guys both have crap stats in every category. I used to do nothing but mcc afk to farm SP before uprising launched and I play 90% of my matches solo, but I still have win loss ratios that eclipse both of you. All the stats matter, and you both have stats that would make people question what you actually being to the table. Funny because I'm looking at your stats and you are wrong on all accounts... You realize we can look those up too right? You are some guy's terrible alt... I hope. In any event try reading the landslide of posts on this thread, maybe the two brain cells you are working with will digest the general topic. No one says you win games without slaying, its just that being the only stat that is really tracked gives players the wrong impression of what matters and how to play the game. Winning and Cash flow are the metrics that should matter. You as a Merc care about cash flow and the people who contract you should care about wins. Right now there is a disconnect between the game and the flavor of the game. Its a Roleplaying FPS with an economy, so tracking stats the way tradional FPSs do makes no sense. K/D is also a terrible metric of how effective you actually are in a match. I can start a sniper alt tomorrow and in two weeks be 25x K/D. Does that mean I'm god at the game? Hell no, I may be a danger to anyone on high ground, but I am zero danger to any objective. Same for just pawn camping or flank camping. The point is for CCp to start actually using metrics that matter and incent positive team based game play. K/D does not incentivize you to actually participate in the battle. Its better for your K/D to roof camp/snipe/hold fire to KS/never hack an objective/red line tank/etc. The point of this discussion is to start using a stat that makes people want to play in a more holistic and inclusive way. Sorry you are butt hurt about a discussion, but grow up and try to actually add something to a topic or stay quite so you don't look as dumb as you have so far on this thread.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 177	Posted - 2015.09.10 17:39:00 - [45] - Quote Genral69 death wrote: Why just why? Surly you know if you make profit in a match so why on earth would you need it to show up in stats, don't get me wrong its not a bad idea but there's nothing wrong with kdr so why bothering replacing it with something . For anyone about to abuse me of being a kdr padder , I honestly would say I enjoy looking at my kdr going up as competition between friends but id say I'm not a padder as I look at the risk of the situation. Not weather my kd would go up but weather its worth the risk. Is it worth the isk taking on several people on at once just for a possible hack (this often relies on green/blue support) Read the posts and you will see why it should be replaced. I love seeing my K/D climb as well, but in truth it correspond very little to good game play. In fact it encourages the behavior that we want to discourage, Roof camping/ redline sniping/ holding fire to KS/ ADS spamming/ Red line tanking/ spawn camping/ refusal to hack installation or objectives/ etc. If it was only there at the end of each battle then people will focus on the metric that is displayed to other people. K/D feeds ego and so would another metric. The key is finding the right way to promote good game play through a metric that would do that. Because in all honesty a guy going 20/4 in pubs but losing 1mill ISK to do it is just lying to himself and his K/D is lying to the world about his game play. It also means that over time his K/D is unsustainable unless he is draining corporate assets to hide his inability to go ISK positive. So as much as I enjoy watching my K/D climb its giving players (especially new players) the wrong goal to pursue.
Tebu Gan 0uter.Heaven 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 17:45:00 - [46] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I love the idea of ISK efficiency +1 Honestly, isk efficiency is a side note when compared to winning. PC for example cares NOTHING about ISK efficiency, it's about winning match. If you think somehow ISK efficiency will affect the outcome of pubs, I'll flat out tell you yr dead wrong. So now you go people running lesser gear or sniping in the redline to improve their isk efficiency rating, or avoid conflict all together rather than pushing for a win. It's no different from KD/R and would lead to the same results. While it would be a cool stat, it would do nothing for the game as a whole. Would just be another stat people could strive for, the same way they strive for high KD/R and in the same ways.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 177	Posted - 2015.09.10 17:58:00 - [47] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: I love the idea of ISK efficiency +1 Honestly, isk efficiency is a side note when compared to winning. PC for example cares NOTHING about ISK efficiency, it's about winning match. If you think somehow ISK efficiency will affect the outcome of pubs, I'll flat out tell you yr dead wrong. So now you go people running lesser gear or sniping in the redline to improve their isk efficiency rating, or avoid conflict all together rather than pushing for a win. It's no different from KD/R and would lead to the same results. While it would be a cool stat, it would do nothing for the game as a whole. Would just be another stat people could strive for, the same way they strive for high KD/R and in the same ways. I think maybe the point is that no matter what metric is used K/D is sending the wrong message. The other metrics may not be perfect and anything can be padded (albeit not as easily as K/D), but they offer a better picture of what makes a "good" player. K/D applies to a very small subset of the game's roles, but is seen as a blanket to cover everyone's contribution. In all honesyt even if another metric did not replace it the removal of it would have a positive effect on the game. Just one more guy trying to hack an objective, not holding fire to KS, or not roof camping would be a positive improvement. If you truly want to incent participation you track WP/D and pay out in pubs like FW. That way you have to win or go home poorer, but the leaving issue is already bad and that would probably make it worse. In any event the real crux of this discussion is "why don't we stop tracking a stat that is detrimental to the game", and I have enjoyed hearing some of the other ideas on here.
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3	Posted - 2015.09.10 18:10:00 - [48] - Quote KD/R matchmaking fixes this. There are four main races in DUST514: The Amarr, bla, bla, and bla.
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3	Posted - 2015.09.10 19:50:00 - [49] - Quote Kills/Assists/Deaths Replace with ISK USED/ISK DESTROYED/ISK GAINED. This would solve a lot of player raging. ISK used: how much equipment you have purchased since the fight started. Basically how much money you have lost. ISK destroyed: how much ISK you have caused the enemy to use. ISK gained: how much ISK your making by destroying the enemy and either winning or losing fights. With this system you won't have nearly as much rage quitting as you have now because it doesn't matter how much you die or kill, it matters how much profit you make. Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C Playstation 4 = Future of Dust514.
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 178	Posted - 2015.09.10 20:36:00 - [50] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Kills/Assists/Deaths Replace with ISK USED/ISK DESTROYED/ISK GAINED. This would solve a lot of player raging. ISK used: how much equipment you have purchased since the fight started. Basically how much money you have lost. ISK destroyed: how much ISK you have caused the enemy to use. ISK gained: how much ISK your making by destroying the enemy and either winning or losing fights. With this system you won't have nearly as much rage quitting as you have now because it doesn't matter how much you die or kill, it matters how much profit you make. Some roles destroy very little, so an ISK/WP ratio seems to be a really good metric. If you slay a lot and die little in reasonable suits you can easily look good. Same goes for guys that rep, hack, drop links. Do more and die less; then you get a great score. Go 20/4 in full proto get a negative score for losing ISK. Seems like it would reinforce positive game play and flavor. It even stops the 1/14 logi from seeming good as well. You have to balance costs with rewards.

Mortishai Belmont G.L.O.R.Y 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 20:49:00 - [51] - Quote I'm not going to bother reading all that and I'm just going to reply to your topic because it's silly. It's one of many stats that every merc has to keep track of their progress and game play. It's silly to care enough about to it try and artificially inflate the number, but you have to understand, if it was all about WP then you'd see nothing but logi's and who wants to go into a match with 16 logis trying to out rep the other 16 logis. Fact of the mater is, if your "that" kind of gamer, your going to try to pad what ever the current hot stat is to make yourself look good. It's as pointless as trying to get people to stop being so selfish. The status is supposed to be there so you can keep track of your personal progress to see if you have improved and get a better idea of how well you do in battle. Look at any competition and you will see people doing what ever they can to get a little above everyone else, why do you think steroids are popular in sports? The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y, (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Cesar Geronimo DUST University Ivy League 68	Posted - 2015.09.10 21:54:00 - [52] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Seems to me that one way to stop stat padding is to start actually tracking stats that matter. K/D has no effect on the actual game and in fact promotes very bad behavior. It is also a terrible measure of player effectiveness. ISK efficiency, however, gives a very clear picture of what as mercenaries we should be most concerned about. IS THE PLAYER MAKING MONEY??? Even as a CEO you would want guys that generate higher ISK amounts for corp taxes. It does no good to have a guy that goes 2:1 K/D, but in real games that's 10/5 and losing 350K ISK per game if they are running proto and still losing money even if its just advanced . Even 3:1 or 4:1 does not matter if you have to burn 2 million in proto gear to achieve it. I am just confused why we are tracking the wrong stat or why one that has no bearing on the game is even tracked. Not tracking K/D takes out incentives to pad K/D in pubs through stomping/syncing, gives less incentive to only redline snipe, and makes running proto a risk even for people with way too much money. It also makes a lot more sense flavor wise. We are mercenaries. Our cash flow is our most important feature. Even WP per death would be a better metric than K/D. I have pondered this for a long time and thought I would just mention it here. After some thinking: ISK per War Point would seem to be a really good metric. It rewards all play styles, and dissuades dying or going try hard all the time. It also means if you want to run proto all the time no problem, but you better contribute WPs to the team and not die often. Otherwise, you will not find yourself stroking your ego on the leader board. +10000 For about 5+ years I've been on the campaign for FPS games offering better metrics for measuring player performance than the stone-age KDR... But just like in professional sports, the issue of advanced analytic stats takes a long, long time to gain any traction, sadly...
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3	Posted - 2015.09.10 22:11:00 - [53] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Void Echo wrote: Kills/Assists/Deaths Replace with ISK USED/ISK DESTROYED/ISK GAINED. This would solve a lot of player raging. ISK used: how much equipment you have purchased since the fight started. Basically how much money you have lost. ISK destroyed: how much ISK you have caused the enemy to use. ISK gained: how much ISK your making by destroying the enemy and either winning or losing fights. With this system you won't have nearly as much rage quitting as you have now because it doesn't matter how much you die or kill, it matters how much profit you make. Some roles destroy very little, so an ISK/WP ratio seems to be a really good metric. If you slay a lot and die little in reasonable suits you can easily look good. Same goes for guys that rep, hack, drop links. Do more and die less; then you get a great score. Go 20/4 in full proto get a negative score for losing ISK. Seems like it would reinforce positive game play and flavor. It even stops the 1/14 logi from seeming good as well. You have to balance costs with rewards. That's why I added in ISK gained, sometimes slayers don't get any kill assists. Sometimes you won't destroy anyone, but you will still buy equipment and gain ISK. That's like saying kill assists shouldn't be here because not everyone gets assists all the time. Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C Playstation 4 = Future of Dust514.
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 23	Posted - 2015.09.10 22:18:00 - [54] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Press Attache wrote: howard sanchez wrote: The players that worship the KD stat and are hostile towards those players that recognize the true diversity and complexity of viable play styles in DUST, these people will not be swayed...they are young radicals who are effective at the small wedge of game experience they excel in. Dust needs slayers. Keep these guys at the front and focused on the color red. You get them posting on forums and great drama and confusion ensues. Only 26 letters in the alphabet but slayers use less than 15 on average. Don't get them riled up on forums please. I love the proposal for tracking isk efficiency and WP/clone. That would be amazing for the game. WP/clone, I believe, more closely mirrors MU than KDr ever will. Just don't get the fear and defensiveness stirred up amongst the slayer class. They really think they run dust and they'll rage quit if they believe they're not first in the lunchline. You can't talk down to people talking about k/d when you generate a measly 148 wp every time you die. Considering you have a sub .6 k\d, I expected a lot more wp out of you. The OP is better with his k/d, but his wp/d output is even worse than yours. For people jabbering about how other stats matter more, you guys both have crap stats in every category. I used to do nothing but mcc afk to farm SP before uprising launched and I play 90% of my matches solo, but I still have win loss ratios that eclipse both of you. All the stats matter, and you both have stats that would make people question what you actually being to the table. Funny because I'm looking at your stats and you are wrong on all accounts... You realize we can look those up too right? You are some guy's terrible alt... I hope. In any event try reading the landslide of posts on this thread, maybe the two brain cells you are working with will digest the general topic. No one says you win games without slaying, its just that being the only stat that is really tracked gives players the wrong impression of what matters and how to play the game. Winning and Cash flow are the metrics that should matter. You as a Merc care about cash flow and the people who contract you should care about wins. Right now there is a disconnect between the game and the flavor of the game. Its a Roleplaying FPS with an economy, so tracking stats the way tradional FPSs do makes no sense. K/D is also a terrible metric of how effective you actually are in a match. I can start a sniper alt tomorrow and in two weeks be 25x K/D. Does that mean I'm god at the game? Hell no, I may be a danger to anyone on high ground, but I am zero danger to any objective. Same for just pawn camping or flank camping. The point is for CCp to start actually using metrics that matter and incent positive team based game play. K/D does not incentivize you to actually participate in the battle. Its better for your K/D to roof camp/snipe/hold fire to KS/never hack an objective/red line tank/etc. The point of this discussion is to start using a stat that makes people want to play in a more holistic and inclusive way. Sorry you are butt hurt about a discussion, but grow up and try to actually add something to a topic or stay quite so you don't look as dumb as you have so far on this thread. Wow buddy, you are clearly far too vain to be as intelligent as you think you are pretending to be. Maybe you should put that alleged computer sciences degree to work doing some formatting for you. My combat toon is in my sig, and in my corp name, so clearly you aren't adept at reading into things. Doesn't change that your other stats aside from your break even k/d are good. Like I said before, and which you did not even attempt to refute, ISK efficiency doesn't matter with apex suits out, if it even mattered before. All that matters winning, and k\d matters in a win, although how much is debatable. Yes k\d is a flawed stat, but it does matter, and people who say it doesn't are destined to stay in the dumpster. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.10 22:20:00 - [55] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: If you want a new and representative ratio, create the WP/battle ratio. WPs are what really defines the efficiency of a player by killing, hacking, "logiing", etc.. and are the sats that we should care more about ^^ And it doesn't have any cons ! How do I tell how many times I've died? Because when I'm going hard I want to know how many suits I lost with estimated isk loss to adjust to lower tiers or not trying the rest of the match. Risk / reward is out of balance. Which created the problem we're in now. I didn't say "replace kdr by this", I said ADD this. You'd have one more ratio to care about. And snipers don't earn a lot of WP Risk reward is out of balance but tweaking kd or ratio stuffs won't fix it.. Remove sniper rifles (they have no positive impact on the game), make some high grounds impossible to reach, make it impossible to fit a MD with more than 2 myos, etc. The list is long, but these points would fix a lot of things Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 185	Posted - 2015.09.12 22:47:00 - [56] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: I'm not going to bother reading all that and I'm just going to reply to your topic because it's silly. It's one of many stats that every merc has to keep track of their progress and game play. It's silly to care enough about to it try and artificially inflate the number, but you have to understand, if it was all about WP then you'd see nothing but logi's and who wants to go into a match with 16 logis trying to out rep the other 16 logis. Fact of the mater is, if your "that" kind of gamer, your going to try to pad what ever the current hot stat is to make yourself look good. It's as pointless as trying to get people to stop being so selfish. The status is supposed to be there so you can keep track of your personal progress to see if you have improved and get a better idea of how well you do in battle. Look at any competition and you will see people doing what ever they can to get a little above everyone else, why do you think steroids are popular in sports? The point is to change behavior. You can pad any stat, but to pad WPs you have to actually do something. That something usually contributes to more wins. It would reduce leaves, dissuade dying in expensive suits, and motivate players to actually do something or be parked at the bottom of the stat pile. If you want t go full proto slayer every game that's fine. The team needs guys that can do that. You just aren't going to generate leader board numbers by doing only one of the many activities it takes to win a match. As players compare thier stats then they will naturally want to improve, and to do so you have to actually generate WPs. You can't do that effectively redline sniping, roof camping, high ground camping, or flank camping. If this game is going to get new players to stay you have to incentivize them with a hope of mattering every game. A militia suit can generate a lot more WPs than kills. Telling guys to stick with it when most of us started in easy mode on here is laughable. Start an alt and see how long you like the NPE, and tell me what your K/D is after a few weeks. If that's the only stat to track that's how they will judge their performance, and all we are telling them is that they fail.
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 57	Posted - 2015.09.13 02:02:00 - [57] - Quote ISK efficiency yes PLEASE I blow through millions of ISK per match sometimes just trolling around in my tank, I would LOVE to go against fresh academy players all the time :3
CRNWLLC Gangsta Gank 412	Posted - 2015.09.13 04:19:00 - [58] - Quote More stats would be great, but this is a shooter, so K/D will always be relevant to a large part of the community.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.

I am a minotaur.