Excuse me sir Gio , but I think we should, focus on something more important and not their problems with ADS.

What about, in lieu of "nerfing stuff", adding skills or mods that create the results you're looking for? Y'know, game expansion type stuff? "New" Content?

Proposal One: Swarm Impact/Force Reduction - Decreased sway of the ADS under fire, allowing the pilot a greater chance of achieving accuracy, and evening the odds in direct Swarmer v ADS confrontations. Percentage of reduction would probably be large.

Proposal Two: Decreased Swarm Tracking Ability - Further encourage pilot skill and maneuverability while also toning down the ability to fire around corners and obstacles, thereby rewarding smart swarmer positioning. Reduction more nebulous

Still the best proposal acroos the board

Stefan Stahl proposed
- DS acceleration 12 m/s-¦ (with AB)
- DS top speed 50 m/s
- SL acceleration 12 m/s-¦
- SL top speed 60 m/s
- SL turn rate 50 -¦/s

Basically with hard manuevers a a good pilot will be able to out dance some swarms
Without evasive manuevers a pilot would be hit.
Higher speed swarms means its still roughly balanced against HAVs
A good swarmer will have to learn when to release the swarms
Cover can be utilized

- Rattati liked it
- Pilots liked it,
- Practical sense
- Mathematical proofs
- Can be done without a hotfix, tweaked accordingly.
- Only 3 parameters need to be typed in, swarm speed, turn rate, and acceleration.

Proposal 2: You are probably aware of this thread. So you could say I'm biased towards tweaking swarm missile maneuverability.

You could tweak the impact force of swarms down, but I don't think it'd be a major benefit. Once an ADS or DS is under Swarm fire it needs to get out of there fairly quickly anyway.

...

Joint proposal:
Update the Assault Swarm Launcher with the proposed swarm missile movement stats. Make it have 2 missiles instead of 4, with double damage but the same impact force.

Result:
- Every ADS pilot will know whether he was just hit by an 'old' or 'new' SL by counting the number of impacts.
- New SLs have half the total impact per volley.
- New SLs have the same DPS.
- New SLs have updated tracking.
- Old SLs are still available should any of these changes prove detrimental to balancing. The impact force won't do anything bad, but the tracking changes may screw up tracking entirely.

Most important bit: This needs to be reverted or updated after two weeks. Experimental stuff on the live server shouldn't be a normal thing.

And finally: Is a tweak to the lock-on parameters on the table?
I'd very much like to reduce the size of the lock-on-window and have the SL lose the lock earlier and faster when you look away from the target. The item DB properties that were posted on these forums last year seemed to suggest that these parameters could be edited. That way a SL operator needs to properly track his target to get a lock and can't fire over his shoulder anymore.

I hate to be that guy, but what's to encourage swarmer to use the new tweaked assaults that give pilots a better chance, rather than wyrokamis?

I hate to be that guy, but what's to encourage swarmer to use the new tweaked assaults that give pilots a better chance, rather than wyrokamis?

probably something sweet like more missile shots per clip. 5 instead of three would be a good incentive. making them very useful vs armor tanks, and tempting vs a maneuvering dropship.

So as we focus on making the game we play that much better, we will take aim at the things that need fixing whether they're big or small, and continue to strengthen the foundation any subsequent "New Content" would have to be built on.

And finally: Is a tweak to the lock-on parameters on the table?
I'd very much like to reduce the size of the lock-on-window and have the SL lose the lock earlier and faster when you look away from the target. The item DB properties that were posted on these forums last year seemed to suggest that these parameters could be edited. That way a SL operator needs to properly track his target to get a lock and can't fire over his shoulder anymore.

We need to make the base swarm launcher good against tanks, and the assault swarms good against DS. As it is, assault swarms are laughably unused, I havent seen them in the killboard in ages.

Basic gist is to slightly buff base swarm damage to make them better at killing tanks while reducing missile speed and acceleration so they can't catch dropships, while assault swarms get faster missiles and acceleration to make them easily catch dropships while reducing their damage since dropships have a lot less health.

I hope that guy with the excellent balance proposal for Swarms chimes in.

Also let's not forget standard Dropships. I can actually get my Python away from Swarms right now if I run the moment I hear them, but standard Dropships are entirely too sluggish to outrun Swarms and just die. I'd love to play more of a support role for my team with mobile spawns and scans, but it's pretty damn hard when I'm drowned in Swarms I can't move fast enough to out-turn or outrun.

First off, this is a thread dedicated to generating meaningful discussion on ADS vs Swarm balance. If you want to talk about forges or tanks, please do so elsewhere unless it happens to be relevant.

Secondly, I will be proposing only two seemingly small changes at this time. I ask that you focus your attention on providing feedback on these specific ideas. Due to the focus, this may be simple, but there's nothing like feedback.

And although it should be obvious, this is CPM data gathering, and is no way "Official."



Proposal One: Swarm Impact/Force Reduction - Decreased sway of the ADS under fire, allowing the pilot a greater chance of achieving accuracy, and evening the odds in direct Swarmer v ADS confrontations. Percentage of reduction "Moderate."

Proposal Two: Decreased Swarm Tracking Ability - Further encourage pilot skill and maneuverability while also toning down the ability to fire around corners and obstacles, thereby rewarding smart swarmer positioning. Reduction from 70-¦/s to 50-¦/s. Curtesy of Stefan Stahl.



Two relatively simple boosts the survivability of the ADS in a swarm engagement while not hindering swarm efficiency against tanks. Fire away.