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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.03 20:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:First off, this is a thread dedicated to generating meaningful discussion on ADS vs Swarm balance. If you want to talk about forges or tanks, please do so elsewhere unless it happens to be relevant. Secondly, I will be proposing only two seemingly small changes at this time. I ask that you focus your attention on providing feedback on these specific ideas. Due to the focus, this may be simple, but there's nothing like feedback. And although it should be obvious, this is CPM data gathering, and is no way "Official." Proposal One: Swarm Impact/Force Reduction - Decreased sway of the ADS under fire, allowing the pilot a greater chance of achieving accuracy, and evening the odds in direct Swarmer v ADS confrontations. Percentage of reduction "Moderate."Proposal Two: Decreased Swarm Tracking Ability - Further encourage pilot skill and maneuverability while also toning down the ability to fire around corners and obstacles, thereby rewarding smart swarmer positioning. Reduction from 70-¦/s to 50-¦/s. Curtesy of Stefan Stahl.Two relatively simple boosts the survivability of the ADS in a swarm engagement while not hindering swarm efficiency against tanks. Fire away.
First off, you misspelled courtesy. Sorry, I'm a little bit of a grammar nazi. Anyway, my thoughts on swarms may infringe on your "no talk of tanks and forges".
On proposal one, I completely disagree with this. There are methods that exist in the ADS to counteract and minimize this. This should fall under the ADS responsibilities.
On proposal two, well I think I know a way to make this happen. It will fall under forges and tanks a bit, but only because I'm wanting to balance swarms to use assaults more.
Anyway, before we begin, there are two key issues that I believe must be addressed, and my proposal will fix it.
Issue 1: No need to maintain the lock. This is honestly the biggest problem any pilot worth their salt has with swarms, they can lob out three rounds in under five seconds no problem, and there is little chance of dodging them.
Issue 2: The size of the lock box. This in essence is the second reason they require no effort. In my dust nerd days, quite a bit ago, I measured the inner crosshair of a forge gun, and then compared them to the swarm. My findings are this:
Standard/militia swarm box size: 16x size of forge
Adv swarm box size: 20x size of forge
Proto swarm box size: 24x size of forge
That is way too large and unnecessary for a swarm to have.
Anyway, on to my proposal:
First step: fix the lock time. Last I checked (a while, I'll admit), the lock time was 1.05 seconds maxed out. I think this should be changed to 1.4 seconds maxed out.
Second step: Make it to where the swarm has to maintain the lock while attacking a vehicle. I do think that, in order to not completely kill the usefulness of swarms, that there should be a re-locking window, a set time where you can still hit the target without getting the lock on. I'd say about 3 seconds for regular, 5 for assault.
Third step: Lock on range change. In order to make variants more marketable, they need to have different range of operation. I believe a tiered set of ranges with corresponding lock boxes would help this. I'll explain in just a second.
Regular swarms: Used for tanks mainly. So up to a 20% increase to damage might be needed, but a slower speed. The lock ranges will be as follows, along with lock boxes.
100 meters, 16x box
175 meters, 12x box
250 meters, 8x box
You can switch sizes by pressing L1 while in lock mode.
Assault swarms: These I think will mainly be useful in fighting ADS. The raw damage is actually pretty good, so there should be no change there. There may call for a slight increase in speed, not sure yet. Anyway, on to the ranges and boxes.
180 meters, 12x box
250 meters, 8x box
400 meters, 4x box
I'm not sure how much help this will be, but I hope it does.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.04 19:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:
But enough about forges, the focus should be on swarms.
Yeah, good luck getting anyone to see that. I've already put my two cents in, this is about as far as I want to go in this thread.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.21 23:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ahem... bump.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.23 01:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:
Actually just yesterday I was trying to kill an ADS with proto swarms, cut his shields, he kicked em back in with mods and took me out, he practically faced me head on, which is rare in a dropship pilot.
Only proto swarms are actually capable of getting missiles out to hit the target, all other swarms are trash, so perhaps we need to look at lock-on time and have, from basic to proto, the same lock on time. Any nerfing to SL's will only lead to them to become worthless in both against dropships in general and tank's. Impact force, sure i'll lose that, but don't do damage/range, or lock on.
If you want to make changes to the Assault, turn into a PLC with 4 shot's, low damage radius vs infantry, high direct damage, and low radius.
I have the strangest feeling you're talking about me, as I seem to remember fighting you and God knows what other AV out there.
Anyways, I do agree that damage shouldn't be messed with (well, maybe not), range not so much. I posted a reply around maybe page 2 of this thread which will state why. But the main problem behind swarms is the fact that there is no effort from the player to actually get a hit on a tank or ADS. A lone swarmer is alright, but when you don't even have to maintain a lock to get a hit, it makes it an easy mode weapon that anyone can use and abuse. And as a long time pilot, I can attest that they do.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.23 13:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:He might have had gunners as well , I flew against that guy a few times .
One time he was solo , seen that I wasn't a noob and the next time we fought , he had a gunner with him .
He might not remember but I do , I thought to myself .. " What a cop out , he had to get help to handle me ? " , all the while I'm taking swarm and forge fire as well .
Like I said , he might not remember or admit it but I do .
Au contraire, my oddly named adversary. This actually sounds like something I'd do, but I'm afraid that this mentality that me having support is a good thing.
In order to properly suit an ADS to support a side gunner, he has to sacrifice quite a bit of fitting space. So me having a gunner is more of a handicap than anything else. Now I may have thrown a heavy or two on top of you, that may have happened. I make it no secret I encourage cowardice in the piloting world. I do this for quite a few reasons, and that's because honor is dead.
Is it honorable when I'm getting pelted by three plus AV at any time, and I'm all alone? Even as a pilot those numbers aren't good. Is it honorable when I'm getting hammered by all the installations on the field that I can't destroy or hack because they'd kill my ADS? Not really. Is it honorable when most AV can shoot me from the redline with nearly no consequence or danger? Because they can, and it royally pisses a lot of pilots off.
I understand that there are honorable AV fighters, but when everyone and their mother wants you dead, there will almost never be a proper 1v1 or fight. Having honor isn't worth it in the cockpit, just saying.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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