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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2015.09.02 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tweaking the impact pulse is pointless because you can't stick around to fight a swarm launcher without dying, plus skilled pilots have long since learned to compensate for it in their flying. Reducing swarm tracking might help but probably not honestly, I've just flown against these things for 3 years now and I just don't see them overshooting the ADS.
If you want to balance swarms vs dropships at this point, with all the bugs, just give us stronger more expensive ADS in the form of STD / ADV / PRO
Swarms are too tricky to balance because of how they function and our lack of dev team / resources to go into the code and make real changes. Just make their targets harder to kill and buff the other AV options accordingly. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
29
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Posted - 2015.09.03 16:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I hope that guy with the excellent balance proposal for Swarms chimes in.
Also let's not forget standard Dropships. I can actually get my Python away from Swarms right now if I run the moment I hear them, but standard Dropships are entirely too sluggish to outrun Swarms and just die. I'd love to play more of a support role for my team with mobile spawns and scans, but it's pretty damn hard when I'm drowned in Swarms I can't move fast enough to out-turn or outrun. Nevermind that, the fact that MCRU's on dropships are still bugged so you can't always spawn onto them, and the fact that CCP has decided not to add ADV and PRO variants so your spawns will always be vastly inferior to uplinks. Add to that the simple fact that it's very hard for passengers to ascertain their position on the battlefield when in your ship and it all combines to make dropships the single worst mobile deployment platform in this game |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2015.09.03 20:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:I'll just give some observations and logical thought here and you can pick it apart at will: Observation 1. Infantry without AV is helpless vs. vehicles. 100% helpless, you basically have zero chance of anything aside from hiding until they go away.
Observation 2. A single infantry with AV is unable to kill a dropship unless the dropship pilot makes a mistake, and cannot even drive the dropship away in some cases in the amount of time it takes the dropship to kill the AV player (in other words, even with AV, dropship vs. infantry is asymmetrical in favor of the dropship).
Observation 3. Multiple infantry with AV makes dropship piloting impossible.
Logicology of the situation: Why is an infantry player running AV not able to kill vehicles unless the pilot makes a mistake when the AV player is making himself food for any non-AV infantry by running that AV?
The reason is because vehicles cost so much, if you made them easy to kill they would be not useless, but definately too expensive to run.
So why do vehicles cost so much?
How about we dramatically rebalance things so that 1. vehicles are killable and 2. they are priced to reflect that.
Final comments: Dropship v. AV is pretty closely balanced in 1v1 right now, but even so its broken because the AV running a fit specifically created to destroy vehicles cannot do his job without the vehicle making a mistake, and if multiple AV are out on the field the vehicle cant do anything at all.
How about we make vehicles expendable? How do we do this? Well we could try this... Make the pilot suit. Tie pilot suit fittings in with how well the vehicle does Dramatically reduce vehicle prices and make it so AV has advantage in 1v1 combat with a vehicle. The majority of a vehicle's "cost" will be in the pilot suit (still not as expensive as current vehicles though), so the vehicle pilot essentially can defray costs indefinately unless his vehicle gets blown up so quickly and decisively that he loses his suit as well. Making vehicles more disposable also helps to mitigate the multiple AV phenomena, where many AV players can make running vehicles prohibitively expensive.
tldr; Vehicle balance in this game is fundamentally broken. Small tweaks arent going to fix it. Breaking the EXPENSIVE = INVINCIBLE dynamic of vehicles may fix the issues, but this probably wont happen, so whatever. It's not just a matter of cost.
Does your dropsuit have to be called in by an RDV, and is it vulnerable during deployment and recalling. Can you just switch out fits for your vehicle at a supply depot? Does your dropsuit have to worry about getting hit by buildings or null cannon missiles or MCC missiles or other vehicles? If it's 1v1, why then can AV ALWAYS outnumber vehicles thanks to vehicle caps? Can a vehicle cap a point?
So you want just a single person to outclass another who takes significantly more time just to get onto the field, who can't even engage in about 50% of the map (technically more if you consider the important points are often physically protected from vehicles)
Your idea makes vehicles worthless because if even one idiot runs to a supply depot, you're down and out if you're in a vehicle. Nevermind if there's more than one, which there ALWAYS is since everyone has AV these days. Vehicles are the best counter to vehicles if you want to be a solo player. Otherwise, you have to either catch them in a trap or work loosely with one other player. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2015.09.04 05:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote: But its ok, you will win in the end because vehicle/AV balance will never be fixed because nobody thinks its a problem that tanks are virtually impossible to kill.
Bad players do have trouble killing tanks while they're on both of their hardeners, I'll give you that. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
37
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Posted - 2015.09.04 17:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
I've had PCs before where a dropship pilot will hover in front of my forge fit and eat 2 full clips of AFG ammo to his face, the only reason I survived was because I was hitting him in such a way to throw his aim off. .
I'm calling bull **** on that one, even if he was a dual hardened Incubus you still would have worn him down in that time, especially if you shot the weak spot.
Sounds like you're just making stuff up now. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2015.09.04 19:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
I've had PCs before where a dropship pilot will hover in front of my forge fit and eat 2 full clips of AFG ammo to his face, the only reason I survived was because I was hitting him in such a way to throw his aim off. .
I'm calling bull **** on that one, even if he was a dual hardened Incubus you still would have worn him down in that time, especially if you shot the weak spot. Sounds like you're just making stuff up now. I've seen a Python use hardeners to reduce Swarm damage so much that the shield repped through Swarm impacts. Think it was triple hardened, according to someone on comms. I'm fairly certain you can't even fit 3 hardeners on a python unless they're basic, and even if you can you're on your base shields with no afterburner. It would have a 20 second window to attack with almost 2 minute downtime and can be one shot by almost all AV at any point in between.
Also, only a fool shoots a weapon that's weak vs shields at a shield fit during its hardener cycle. That said most pythons don't run more than one hardener and swarms still do high damage to them considering their low overall tank and the fact that they won't rep in between being hit by swarms.
Honestly it sounds more like a troll Myron fit than anything else. Simple fact is that unless an ADS runs immediately or close to it, it dies. Anyone saying otherwise is lying because math |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2015.09.04 20:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:I've seen a Python use hardeners to reduce Swarm damage so much that the shield repped through Swarm impacts. Think it was triple hardened, according to someone on comms. I'm fairly certain you can't even fit 3 hardeners on a python unless they're basic, and even if you can you're on your base shields with no afterburner. It would have a 20 second window to attack with almost 2 minute downtime and can be one shot by almost all AV at any point in between. Also, only a fool shoots a weapon that's weak vs shields at a shield fit during its hardener cycle. That said most pythons don't run more than one hardener and swarms still do high damage to them considering their low overall tank and the fact that they won't rep in between being hit by swarms. Honestly it sounds more like a troll Myron fit than anything else. Simple fact is that unless an ADS runs immediately or close to it, it dies. Anyone saying otherwise is lying because math Oh, it was definitely a Python. He'd buzz in, hardened up, and then missile the roof above C on a 4 point (2 in and 2 out) city map to clear uplinks/distract the lookouts/be a pain in the arse and then fly off when the modules ran low. Occasionally he'd hot drop a Sentinel or two while repping through Swarm salvos. Niche fit but it did its job. I still honestly don't believe it unless he was being hit with militia swarms, because it WILL break his rep cycle and if his overall shields would be very low. Again assuming the fit is even possible it would be HIGHLY vulnerable whenever off of its hardener, and that would be significantly longer than when he's on hardeners. Also he would crumple to small railgun fire from LAVs, HAVs, DS or ADS. Basically it was good in that one very specific situation but would go up in flames against most AV, particularly smart AV that baited it's hardener then chased it once on its cooldown.
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
159
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Text Grant wrote:Think a lot more like a person with a brain. A single swarmer can't kill a python, or an incubus. Your point is invalid. Not true, a single Swarmer can kill an ADS, unless you want to specify a specific kind of scenario and/or ADS fit. Kallas don't even waste your breath bro. A single swarmer absolutely can and will take you down if you don't immediately fly away, hell even with two hardeners a single swarmer can STILL take you out if they're any kind of commando, particularly a jumpy one.
And the simple fact remains: there is NEVER just one swarmer, and everyone on the map knows where you are the moment you deploy.
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