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Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1
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Posted - 2015.08.29 16:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
We are gathering community feedback on the Mass Driver and particularly the Mass Driver variants, Breach and Assault. All feedback is welcome, but comments from experienced users are greatly appreciated.
For each of the variants specifically, what do you see as the role of the weapon?
How does it perform in that role? Would it need adjustment to be effective in that role?
Or does the role of the weapon need redefining and then adjustments to follow? What would those adjustments be?
What sort of outside factors do you think affect the performance of the weapon in the assumed role (for instance, does a specific fitting make it more efficient in certain circumstances)?
Please give examples of the fits you use the weapon on and the type of battlefield situations you use it in.
Thank you :)
zariamindeir on Twitter&Gmail
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
190
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Posted - 2015.08.29 16:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
I havent used the breach variant, so I cant tell anything about it, although I have hear that it could/should be an AV weapon (it kinda make sense to me).
I always use the standard mass driver, because when I have used the assault variant I have felt that is impossible to kill something with it but you do get a lot of kill assits. I think that what this weapon needs is a higher rate of fire to compensate the lack of damage it does. No more damage, just with the fire rate increase it could improve a lot. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
6
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Posted - 2015.08.29 16:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
--Standard Mass Driver--
Primarily used to suppress and kill lower HP, faster targets. This works in the widest range of situations as it doesnt approach the extreme in really any area. Overall pretty solid and I wouldn't suggest any changes.
~Average Direct Damage
~Average Splash Damage
~Average Splash Radius
--Assault Mass Driver--
The NUKE EVERYTHING gun. It's low DPS makes it difficult to kill things in direct encounters but it's exceptionally good at suppression and locking down a large area with constant DPS. Works amazing on large clusters of enemies and hitting enemies behind cover. Again I don't really have many issues with this variant.
~Low Direct Damage
~Low Splash Damage
~High Splash Radius
--Breach Mass Driver--
This is the problem child. Currently crappy splash damage and radius with a decent amount of direct damage. This weapon basically requires you to get direct hits to do any meaningful damage...and if I wanted a weapon that required direct hits, I wouldn't be using a Mass Driver. I think the more appropriate approach is to keep its tight splash radius but have that equate to a focused blast, thus having much higher splash damage with a low splash radius. This would be the variant most oriented at direct 1v1 combat due to decently high DPS (though splash DPS should still not exceed that of a direct weapon such as an Assault Rifle).
~High Direct Damage
~High Splash damage
~Low Splash Radius
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
3
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Posted - 2015.08.29 17:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
I really like the assault mass driver! I dont think it needs any major changes. It could use a little higher rate of fire if it is going to keep its low damage, its larger area of effect is useful and I dont want to make it OP. That being said, right now it is very weak dealing only a little damage on each splash.
I use it to flush enemies out of chocked up defended locations, specifically in a few Domination maps that spring to mind.... (That room with the front door and the back drop in form the skylight)
Pokey has a very good idea above - about the breach mass driver.
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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Kinky Fat Bastard
106
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Posted - 2015.08.29 17:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Give the militia mass driver the current stats of the agimus.
Remove all other mass drivers from game.
Do you have time to look at this pimple on my ass now please? |
DeadlyAztec11
9
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Posted - 2015.08.29 17:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Give the Breach Mass Driver a more linear path, and higher splash damage.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
12
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Posted - 2015.08.29 17:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Assault Mass Driver is my go to as there is a lot of room for error and you can get a lot of kill assists out of the deal. It is an excellent, easy to use support tool but the damage can feel a bit lacking at times.
Vanilla is a bit more useful for kills but the slower fire rate is the primary drawback for me, personally, as well as the lower "magazine" count.
The Breach requires a bit too much skill to make efficient use out of and given flight times it can be extremely difficult to land shots close enough to make use of it's high damage.
Essentially what it comes down to is:
-How many rounds can I put down range?
-How fast can I put those rounds down range?
-How many will actually cause damage?
The breach's damage is spectacular when it hits but given the rate at which damage is applied, you'd be better off going with the vanilla or assault variants, IMO.
I think if you flattened out the rate of fire across all variants, they'd all be a little easier to adapt to in the moment-to-moment gameplay. Maybe give the Breach a tad more splash radius.
If there were anything that would make me regret running for CPM, it would be Domination.
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The Eristic
Hostile Takeovers
1
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey is on the right track, imo. I'm 100% behind full AV efficiency, too, especially on the Breach, 200% if Swarms are moved to kinetic damage.
I'd also like to see a basic Assault MD available (along with all other variants at all tiers). Usage (and related data) would almost certainly increase if people could try many variants out more easily.
Recruiting PC mercs!
Pub chat: Blatant Hostility
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Mossellia Delt
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Want to fix the breach? Give it about 350 - 400 direct damage, remove all splash, lower the mag to 4, remove the arc, give it an airburst detonation at 50 meters that does very low damage (50 or so) but vibrates the hell out of the screen (within a 10 meter distance)
Delt for CPM3
CPM1 MISSION : FAILED /
CPM2 MISSION : FAILED /
Moss-delt on skype
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
6
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Posted - 2015.08.29 18:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Pokey is on the right track, imo. I'm 100% behind full AV efficiency, too, especially on the Breach, 200% if Swarms are moved to kinetic damage.
I'd also like to see a basic Assault MD available (along with all other variants at all tiers). Usage (and related data) would almost certainly increase if people could try many variants out more easily.
You had no idea how badly I wish all variants were available at all tiers for all weapons.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:The Eristic wrote:Pokey is on the right track, imo. I'm 100% behind full AV efficiency, too, especially on the Breach, 200% if Swarms are moved to kinetic damage.
I'd also like to see a basic Assault MD available (along with all other variants at all tiers). Usage (and related data) would almost certainly increase if people could try many variants out more easily. You had no idea how badly I wish all variants were available at all tiers for all weapons.
Pretty sure I do.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
6
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:The Eristic wrote:Pokey is on the right track, imo. I'm 100% behind full AV efficiency, too, especially on the Breach, 200% if Swarms are moved to kinetic damage.
I'd also like to see a basic Assault MD available (along with all other variants at all tiers). Usage (and related data) would almost certainly increase if people could try many variants out more easily. You had no idea how badly I wish all variants were available at all tiers for all weapons. Pretty sure I do.
That's because you're my Minion of Numbers
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
606
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Posted - 2015.08.29 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Standard is fine.
Assault is amazing.
Breach... Idk maybe a vehicle buff?
Mainly though I popped in to suggest the flux variant again. Low RoF, wide splash.
Buh-bye campers.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Vulpes Dolosus
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
3
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Turn the breach essentially into a slug shotgun/flaylock hybrid:
-high impact damage
-lower splash damage and range (splash range for sure, though Pokey suggested higher splash damage, either is worth considering)
-give it flaylock projectil speed and arc
-Perhaps add more AV potency for utility
-RoF should be on par with standard variant; lower clip size to perhaps 4-5; slightly better reload speed
As for the others, I haven't heard any issues with them.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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CallMeNoName
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2015.08.29 21:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Give the player the jump height of a Min Scout with 3 Comp Myos when equipping one.
Also, increase the blast radius by 200%.
Aiming is too hard when you jump up above someone and have to aim downwards. |
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.08.29 21:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
All I would do is increase the projectile speed and decrease the arc. If it's going to have a little over half the DPS of an equivalent rifle, it may as well be easier to apply that damage.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.08.30 02:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree with basically everything Pokey said for starters.
The biggest issue with all three variants is the ammo pool. They run out of ammo much too quickly for a primary weapon. One extra clip each would be ideal, and not risk being OP from having too much ammo. The Mass Driver is one of the few weapons that forces you to carry nanohives.
My other pet peeve of the MD is the color of the projectile. Why was it changed to white? Now my XMAS snowball launchers are even more useless. Change the color back pretty please.
The Standard variant is almost perfect. If it was perfect, people would find a way to abuse it. Decent rof, decent dps, decent range, an all around decent support weapon. I run it almost exclusively on my Logi fits. I can still win the occasional 1v1 as well, assuming I fluxed them first. This is a weapon that is great from above, and borderline useless from below. The low ammo pool, need to waste an equipment slot on nanohives, and ability to properly flux opponents before unleashing hell prevents it from being used more widely. This variant fires 1 round per second.
The Assault version is pretty much exactly where it needs to be. Great rof, decent ammo pool, and moderate dps makes it a Commado's best friend. This one is designed to be a support weapon first and foremost. It's also the only Mass Driver to make use of every chamber in the clip (which still makes no sense to me). This version really shines at breaching buildings, scattering blobs, and attacking mercs behind cover. Good f-ing luck in a 1v1 though, lol. All it really needs is an extra clip worth of ammo, and a smidge more damage for direct hits. This variant fires 1 round every half second.
The Breach variant is the red headed step child of the bunch. It punishes you for anything but direct hits, and even then, it lacks in the damage category. This weapon really should be converted into an AV weapon. Especially if the Min Commando is losing its Swarm Launcher prowess. There is absolutely no reason to run this variant currently, especially since the MD doesn't benefit from aim assist. Boost the damage by 50-75 for direct hits. Turning this weapon into a close range AV weapon would really give it the niche it deserves, imo. What are the odds of making the first round of every Breach clip be a Flux round? This variant fires 1 round every 1.25-1.5 seconds.
The Mass Driver takes practice to become lethal rather than annoying, and it really doesn't shine until you are at Prof 5 and add damage mods. There are plenty of rifles that don't even need damage mods or anything above Prof 3 meanwhile, and those things are just bullet hoses with aim assist. People ***** and moan that I killed them by shooting at their feet, yet they lost a 1v1 to a lower dps weapon, that shoots 1 round per second, and takes longer to reload than some rifles take to dump a full clip.
TL;DR
Add some more ammo, change the projectile color back, make the Breach an AV weapon. 
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
3
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Posted - 2015.08.30 06:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
I pretty much agree with Pokey. Breach is the one that needs attention. Giving it AV functionality seems reasonable.
My biggest beef with mass drivers is that it's hard to see the blast radius. You see an explosion, but it's hard to appreciate exactly where it landed and how wide the blast was (this problem applies to all AoE weapons, but especially to the MD). I doubt it's possible to revisit the explosion animation to give a better sense of the blast radius visually, but it they can tweak it somehow, it would give better visual feedback so you can dial in your range better. Maybe they could design a new animation based on the flux grenade's, but with a different color.
Best PvE idea ever!
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
12
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Posted - 2015.08.30 07:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
The breach MD currently has no real role, and it's underperforming. I would like the breach to get 50%-100% damage against vehicles to act as a Minmatar AV weapon.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
3
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Posted - 2015.08.30 10:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Assault Mass Driver is my go to as there is a lot of room for error and you can get a lot of kill assists out of the deal. It is an excellent, easy to use support tool but the damage can feel a bit lacking at times.
Vanilla is a bit more useful for kills but the slower fire rate is the primary drawback for me, personally, as well as the lower "magazine" count.
The Breach requires a bit too much skill to make efficient use out of and given flight times it can be extremely difficult to land shots close enough to make use of it's high damage.
Essentially what it comes down to is:
-How many rounds can I put down range?
-How fast can I put those rounds down range?
-How many will actually cause damage?
The breach's damage is spectacular when it hits but given the rate at which damage is applied, you'd be better off going with the vanilla or assault variants, IMO.
I think if you flattened out the rate of fire across all variants, they'd all be a little easier to adapt to in the moment-to-moment gameplay. Maybe give the Breach a tad more splash radius.
I see where you are coming from but I dislike the idea of flattening the rate of fire across the different mass driver variants.
Most people agree that the Standard and Assault variants only need minor things, I would argue that the Assault and standard could both use a rate of fire increase, especially the assault.
Where as the breach mass driver is currently way behind those other two and I believe that is what we should focus attention onto.
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.08.30 11:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
I make large use of assault MD.
It is the perfect weapon for room cleaning, nice amount of ammo stored and in clip, good damage and AoE.
I don't see many people using it, probably because MD is better at shorter range and do more damage.
The only complain i have on aMd is: why we don't have a STD variant?
On the other hand breach MD is the black sheep of the MD family.
The problem i see with it is the projectile trajectory being identical to a normal MD rendering it quite useless for direct hits.
How i would fix Breach MD:
- Give it flaylock bullet trajectory.
- Increase projectile speed.
- Increase range. (0-100m optimal)
- ROF (250 rpm) or medium slow ROF
- Mount CR scope
- Keep current damage and AoE (idk exact numbers maybe adjust for balance)
- Add 85% efficiency against vehicles
- 35 Ammo
- 5 magazine
That would turn bMD in the my beloved flaylock rifle.
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.30 11:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:The Eristic wrote:Pokey is on the right track, imo. I'm 100% behind full AV efficiency, too, especially on the Breach, 200% if Swarms are moved to kinetic damage.
I'd also like to see a basic Assault MD available (along with all other variants at all tiers). Usage (and related data) would almost certainly increase if people could try many variants out more easily. You had no idea how badly I wish all variants were available at all tiers for all weapons. Pretty sure I do. That's because you're my Minion of Numbers
Actually I think it has to do with potentially being borderline obsessive-compulsive.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
6
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Posted - 2015.08.30 17:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Also from my underperforming weapons thread
Breach Mass Driver
Quick explanation: For a weapon designed exactly to be light AV, it is less efficient than Nova Knives against vehicles
It has less splash damage, a smaller blast radius, and even has a slower firing rate than the normal mass driver...obviously this weapon was not designed to be used against infantry. 40% damage against vehicles is literally a joke, and it takes 9 seconds to deal a similar amount of damage that a PLC could in one shot.
We already know that it is possible to change the damage efficacy against vehicles for a specific variant (Assault HMG), so doing the same for the mass driver shouldn't be any different.
Possible buff: Increase efficacy against vehicles to at least 75%, keeping -20% to shields and +20% to armor
Assault Mass Driver
Quick explanation: "Anything you can do, I can do better" -Normal Mass Driver
The idea for this weapon was spot on. Faster RoF, less damage, more rounds per reload, and top it all off with an insane splash radius. And yet spamming this thing into a group of red dots yields two +5 equipment destructions. The problem was in how much less damage.
The adv MD is at a nice 152 dps, while the assault is about 114 (91 splash at 75 rpm). That's a larger gap than that difference between Proto and Officer. Granted we still have to take into account the usefulness of a larger splash radius, but 130 or 135 dps is much more fair of a value.
Possible buff: increase splash to >100, or increase fire rate to 90 rpm
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
6
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Posted - 2015.08.30 19:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:The Eristic wrote:Pokey is on the right track, imo. I'm 100% behind full AV efficiency, too, especially on the Breach, 200% if Swarms are moved to kinetic damage.
I'd also like to see a basic Assault MD available (along with all other variants at all tiers). Usage (and related data) would almost certainly increase if people could try many variants out more easily. You had no idea how badly I wish all variants were available at all tiers for all weapons. Pretty sure I do. That's because you're my Minion of Numbers Actually I think it has to do with potentially being borderline obsessive-compulsive. How long does it take to kill an average, non-sentinel, target with a mass driver? How long without mods? How long with? This question isn't for mathematical perfection, it's to kind of get a feel for how people view the weapon.
for reference, I have Mass Driver Proficiency 5 and typically use the Militia BPO mass driver on a Level 5 Minmatar Commando. So it's hitting for the same damage as a Proto Mass Driver on a Nonmmando.
Due to the extreme damage profile, you get really wide results in TTK. Non heavy Amarr suits pretty much vaporize in 2-3 shots, they're be far the easiest to kill with the MD. Caldari suits can often take 4-5+ with some gentle encouragement from the Combat Rifle.
Overall though it 'feels' pretty good as long as you dont treat it like a battle rifle and face enemies directly. It's DPS is lower, but I think that's what makes it balanced due to the nature of being a splash damage weapon. Popping in and out from behind cover turns the MD into a beast of a weapon, but not so much that I feel like I have an unfair advantage in 1v1.
---
As for people asking for it to be an AV weapon. I haven't run the numbers lately but I seem to recall that even at 100% efficiency against vehicles, the BMD would be a pitifully bad AV weapon. The DPS just isn't there. You would need a substantial increase to direct hit damage DPS to make it a viable AV weapon.
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
10
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Posted - 2015.08.30 20:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
As for people asking for it to be an AV weapon. I haven't run the numbers lately but I seem to recall that even at 100% efficiency against vehicles, the BMD would be a pitifully bad AV weapon. The DPS just isn't there. You would need a substantial increase to direct hit damage DPS to make it a viable AV weapon.
Right around 800 per hit if I recall the number crunching I did. Would have to keep the blast radius sh*tty though, just so it wasn't insane.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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The Eristic
Hostile Takeovers
1
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Posted - 2015.08.30 21:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:As for people asking for it to be an AV weapon. I haven't run the numbers lately but I seem to recall that even at 100% efficiency against vehicles, the BMD would be a pitifully bad AV weapon. The DPS just isn't there. You would need a substantial increase to direct hit damage DPS to make it a viable AV weapon.
I would be perfectly ok with that; much like the Plasma Cannon, BMD takes too much skill and/or luck to land direct hits on infantry for a direct damage buff to push it into OP territory (well, maybe - we could see the emergence of CQC BMD "shotgunners", though splash damage could be used to mitigate that - then again, the name is "Breach", maybe it should be used that way!). However, I suppose we really need to work out just what kind of primary AV role it would be fulfilling. High alpha buster (Forge/PLC)? Suppression (Swarms)? Close range softener/finisher (AV nades/AHMG)? Something else?
Personally, I see it kind of in its own role between suppression and softening, not generally suitable for solo AV against (good) vehicles, but more a "support" AV option, ideally providing modest-but-steady short/mid range damage application in conjunction with other high alpha AV (all of which have meaningful downtime between application and/or limited uses). In that context, a direct buff to something in 500-550 range would offer only a moderate DPS increase, but certainly enough damage per clip to give a vehicle in armor a good scare without making it an OHK vs the majority of infantry. What kind of numbers are you thinking?
Recruiting PC mercs!
Pub chat: Blatant Hostility
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.08.30 22:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
What if....
There was a variant MD where you could 'bounce/ricochet' a shot off a wall or surface.
If nobody minds me ripping a page out of halo 2's book with the brute shot
Real CPM Platform
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.08.31 00:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Also what if...
If the breach variant could be timed and detonated at will? IE:
Player fire and holds R1, when player releases R1 the grenade detonates.
Meaning you could fire a shot and detonate right in someone's face, OR fire a shot on the ground, and wait to detonate it until someone walks over it.
Real CPM Platform
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Saint Winter
THE N.O.O.B.S
61
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Posted - 2015.09.01 02:58:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hi all , I would like to take a look at my idea .
1.6 Mass Driver
Weapon used if you want to send your enemies flying through the air and weapon denial is a very good area.
1.6.1 Weapon General
Very good but as I do not use it, I do not get many points with her.
1.6.2 Variants
There are variants that need some changes and have a new variant.
1.6.2.1 Assault Mass Driver
This new variant is not the freedom. (This automatically shoots with low DPS, Low Damage, Radio the same as the normal Accelerator Mass explosion and damage the same as normal Accelerator Mass)
1.6.2.2 Combat Mass Driver
All you have to change is the name of the Pro version.
The other variants are good for me.
I hope to see you think of my idea.
Excuse me for not using parameters .
Thanks |
IR Scifi
OSG Planetary Operations
190
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Posted - 2015.09.04 17:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'd almost suggest a look at its hit detection would be warranted. I swear sometime about a patch or two back something changed and it lost its effectiveness. I used to be able to spam a cluster and come out with at least one kill but now I hardly even get shield damage to register. It's very likely that it's just me but I'd been using the weapon since it was first introduced and never had that much trouble with it.
I like the idea of the breach becoming another av weapon. Maybe treat its splash like the flaylock? 0.5 meter splash same damage as direct hit.
Also I'd like the mass drivers to have just a touch more arc and a wee bit of rof increase on the vanilla version. |
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