Or you could git gud like me!

I learnd that you can fly with double hardened ADS (feeling) quite safety.
Yet even in such fit you have to fly away the moment swarms hit you.

I have 3 main problems with swarms
1. Their max distance is too much.
To fly 400m away everytime someone shots you is crazy.

2. Invisible swarms and not rendering players.
I have to fly as low as I can if I want SL guy to pop out. So before I can counter (kill) him, before I can see him and start shooting he can fire 1-2 volleys at me + my dropship is being thrown in every direcion.

3. Swarms are light and portable.
Why do they deal as much damage as AFG? Not only you can fit them on every suit, you have the ability to defend yourself at anytime. I understand that with FG you sacrifice quite a lot (movement, defense ability, eq). But with swarms you don't sacrifice anything, you deal as much damage if not more than with AFG, fire and forget > move on.

if he should learn from anyone it should be Darth Carbonite GIO, best ADS pilot I have encountered

Or you could git gud like me!

400m on and ads can easily be reached and surpassed if you know how to quickly pick up speed you can do this at any angle but i notice that one of the rookie mistake pilots make is that they try to turn in the way they want to escape rather then simply using their momentum to fly in that direction

invisible swarms and players that don't render can easily be countered by just listening they make quite a distinguishable sound and even if they dont render the launching of the swarms creates a flash that is noticeable even at range

swarms being light and portable, realize that a player has to dedicate one entire weapon slot just to fit it and it does about 200-300 less damge then an assault forge the difference being that swarms can be fired off slightly faster but after the first batch any consecutive vollys should be easily avoided while the FG can cause you to lose control and is harder to dodge in the hands of a skilled player however there are not many of those that dedicate their time to the FG like they used to

as a player that has had their fair share of encounters with both swarms and fg's I worry more about a fat suit using a fg then I do anyone using swarms

It's just me getting owned by an officer swarm launcher from the redline whilst I'm trying to play the point

There have been hundreds of threads like this for a year now, I'm just disappointed that in all that time there have been zero changes all because Judge pubstomped to a 40 kdr

I did watch the video and I noticed that you hardly took any countermeasure other then turning on your hardener, not to mention that you used an armor based drop ship which are naturally weaker to swarms as well as dealing with a minmando using officer swarms any officer weapon in its own right is OP as it is so its not a surprise that the outcome was as it was

however it did take multiple volleys to even take you out in the first place so I say that's pretty darn fair

3. Swarms are light and portable.
Why do they deal as much damage as AFG

An ADS with dual hardeners can rep through a double DMG modded FG - so if swarms are only this powerful where's the problem?

Bad pilots with crap fits (that's the problem)

I've had milita DS escape from my triple DMG modded minmando and proto swarms...

Really ,now the pleasure to fly with an ads is gone because i don't know what are you doing with the swarm laucher : it's too powerfull against an ads. I can understand for tank is ok and i'm not sure,only the pilots of tanks can say that, but the swarms are just too cheated against us. I'm full skilled on ads and i try all the fits to try to survive against the swarms.

A swarm with full skills on commando min can make like 45% of damage more...just make some maths and after try to test in the game even with 3 hardeners of shield!!!!!!!!!! You ll see there is a big problem!!!!!
The missiles of swarm can make the turn of the map or installation to hit you and now you can forgot to destroy madrugar with an ads.YOU loose a lot of good pilots with that ( Evo,Judge and more)

First you was nerfed the rof of missiles and rails and i can understand that ( a little bit) but if you don't like the python and the incubus why you don't just remove it from the game?

Just yesterday I shot 3 Wirikomi volleys at an Incubus and the pilot finally flew away. For it to survive that much punishment, the fitting was a beast. I will ask you though are there any aircraft that can take that much abuse?

Or you could git gud like me!

400m on and ads can easily be reached and surpassed if you know how to quickly pick up speed you can do this at any angle but i notice that one of the rookie mistake pilots make is that they try to turn in the way they want to escape rather then simply using their momentum to fly in that direction

invisible swarms and players that don't render can easily be countered by just listening they make quite a distinguishable sound and even if they dont render the launching of the swarms creates a flash that is noticeable even at range

swarms being light and portable, realize that a player has to dedicate one entire weapon slot just to fit it and it does about 200-300 less damge then an assault forge the difference being that swarms can be fired off slightly faster but after the first batch any consecutive vollys should be easily avoided while the FG can cause you to lose control and is harder to dodge in the hands of a skilled player however there are not many of those that dedicate their time to the FG like they used to

as a player that has had their fair share of encounters with both swarms and fg's I worry more about a fat suit using a fg then I do anyone using swarms

No, swarmers should not have it as easy as they do now. You know something is wrong when every match there's the one guy that has already pulled out a swarm because he knows he's gonna get some easy mode fun.

You have no idea what you talking about. Sure 400m can be reached on an ads. What's your point? 400m is ridiculous that in many cases is back in my own redline. It shouldn't be that easy to force an ADS out of the fight that quickly.

We are not allowed brawl with more than one guy. If there's more than one AVer than most dropships die the moment they start a brawl and they sure wont have time to get away.

I don't know how often you actually try to fight infantry but it's pretty darn frustrating. It's a far cry from battlefield where the pilot has rocket pods at their disposal and everything he shoots at dies real quick.

It just amazes me that I can tell the REAL pilots , their giving you advice and not complaining , the one's complaining are the one's who aren't any good to begin with .

I've noticed some names that I sent flaming in a ball of wreckage .

Not to say that everyone who complains about something is wrong for doing it but in this case , some are just lazy and like they call swarms " easy mode " , that's just what they want when they already have a massive advantage .

Swarms are easy ? Don't tell me you know about it now that I said that , try swarming for a month straight and nothing else , if you roll with a squad , tell no one to help you , you do it alone and see how far you get and if you don't experience some bugs in the process .

If their infantry , maybe they were using swarms for LAV's and HAV's .?. , I mean .. who goes into a game with the intent of using swarms .?. even if you play commando , that's one less gun when you have plenty targeting you during the game from infantry and scouts just looking to kill you while your unaware .

If your not playing a commando then your relying on your sidearm during that time , how helpful and easy is that ?

DS's are no threat for the most part and most of the matches I play where the enemy uses vehicles , people still run around looking dumbfounded doing nothing , not even switching at the storage depot , one of the reason's I specialized in AV .

Somebody has to do it .

Just swarm for a month and tell me later how easy it was .

Here we go again , what's good for the goose is good for the gander . Re-read what you wrote , you are not suppose to farm infantry and that's why people complained about HAV's , so in your mind and the mind of others obviously , you didn't think that effect would trickle down to ADS's .?.did you really think that you wouldn't get the same treatment ?

You are a deterrent to fight against OTHER VEHICLES , just like HAV's ... not to farm infantry , that's why and what you have team mates for , you know , other infantry players ... who can you blame for that .?. why should you be allowed to do it when it was such a big issue for HAV's and ADS's before the changes?

Your not suppose to brawl with infantry , that just doesn't even sound right . How would you brawl with infantry in a ADS anyway .?. are you a bully .?. shouldn't you use a heavy suit if that's the case?

The community fought for the changes , so now you want to be the exception? Again , HAV's have to deal with far more then ADS's have to but all they talk about is how bland their situation is while " pilots " cry about being underpowered as they spam missiles at infantry like a pitching machine .

The only ADS that's anywhere near weak is the Caldari and it can double shield harden while sitting 70 to 80 m over you lobbing missiles with a percentage damage boost from the warbarge and the ADS skill it's self . Swarms are a shield weapon.

Stop trying to brawl with infantry and kill some vehicles .

Might help you , never know .

Brawl with infantry just doesn't sound right , not at all .

Or you could git gud like me!

Swarms are easy ? Don't tell me you know about it now that I said that , try swarming for a month straight and nothing else , if you roll with a squad , tell no one to help you , you do it alone and see how far you get and if you don't experience some bugs in the process .

If their infantry , maybe they were using swarms for LAV's and HAV's .?. , I mean .. who goes into a game with the intent of using swarms .?. even if you play commando , that's one less gun when you have plenty targeting you during the game from infantry and scouts just looking to kill you while your unaware .

If your not playing a commando then your relying on your sidearm during that time , how helpful and easy is that ?

DS's are no threat for the most part and most of the matches I play where the enemy uses vehicles , people still run around looking dumbfounded doing nothing , not even switching at the storage depot , one of the reason's I specialized in AV .

Somebody has to do it .

Just swarm for a month and tell me later how easy it was .

I'm almost out of isk from running ADS regardless of the risk, lots of fun but after spending about 40mil on them in the last month i'll soon be retiring again because of a lack of funds. i'm not going to run free suits for 2 out of 3 battles just to have a few mins of flight time before getting swotted by multiple swarms.

If they are going to treat ADS like disposable LAVs the price should reflect it, might help someone else in not going broke from doing what they love in the game.

Lol, why do people think a vehicle user only does vehicles? Vehicle users do play infantry and do play with AV. I have used swarms enough as well as everything else in the game to know what I'm talking about. I've used them as an alternate role on four characters.

Sorry, I'm not so r*tarded that I need to use something for a whole month straight in order to understand it. How about two and a half years of playing this game and using everything in it? Please stop making faulty arguments simply to deny a problem you don't want to accept. One must support the development of the game by always seeing problems in everything however small for the sake of further improvement. Not continuing to question things does nothing for buliding a better product.

There is a sifference in seeing the game simply as a personal pasttime and sticking with things that work for you and seeing the game as a product that should succeed in the grand scheme of things.

You would have won the internet for a day if you had better grammar.

who needs Derrith, Espeon, Vooblylol, Parthok, Darth etc when you have this beast?

Happy flying!

If we had flares and a locked-on signal they wouldn't be so OP.

We need a flare module, with cooldown and everything.

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

This pretty much sums up why i think the changes (nerf ADS buff Swarms at the same time) were ill thought out, it's been based on the experience of only being on one side

Archduke, are the conditions you feel justified the nerf still prevalent?

No Vehicles in ambush
Warbarge Damage Modifier
Smaller maps (New + Redline changes)
Stronger Tanks

As I said, what I posted was my personal opinion. Balancing changes are not implemented on account of the personal opinion of a single CCP employee.

if he should learn from anyone it should be Darth Carbonite GIO, best ADS pilot I have encountered

There is no reason why half of the issues that concern the dozen or so pilot left remain un adressed.

- Why is the ROF skill an 8x skill after a 75% nerf?

- Why is it more useful to put missiles on an Incubus level 0 rather than 2.5 million SP on a python V?

- After stating pilots should be able to evade swarms, its is still impossible to do. Why has there been no followup?

- After suggesting the return of the LOGI dropship, (much anticiapated b ADS mpilots who want to fly proper support) it has been shelved. What happened?

- Why is it better to fly a militia dropship than a standard one? (both have the same survivability rates vs AV)

- Pilot WP is still abysmally low. What can we do about improving it?

Most players that are pilots simply are not that good , so it's easy to complain about getting shot down when your not that good to begin with .

Blame it on the swarms all you like but to me from what I see and have experienced by going against other so called pilots , it's more about bad pilots then it is the mechanics of AV weapons and the only reason that people complain about swarms is that , their the best at negating an area , you can't camp over a swarmer for the most part if their good ( you can if your using missiles ) but you can to forges and that's why you don't hear any forge bashing , couple that with their charge time and it's easy to kill a forger , even more so with missiles .

People that don't use swarms don't realize the bugs that they have . You actually have to look at what you've fired at for the damage to register unless their in motion and trying to evade , I was just in a match where I had to look down while avoiding sniper fire and forge fire as well and firing at a LAV didn't register a single shot all the while firing 3 rounds because I wasn't looking at the vehicle after firing , I wasn't taking a death to kill a LAV , second there's a bug that won't allow you to lock on a vehicle at 70 to 90 m , I keep getting this happening to me and have died a lot from this bug but no one talks about either of these because they just want swarms to get a nerf .

Why increase the lock on time .?. so you can farm swarmer's and have a better chance of killing them while in a ADS , I mean , what other reason would you have to do that ?

I have flown ADS's for the longest and before the changes they were OP with the pilot stacking and the ROF , all this to farm infantry and that's really the main issue , it's not about killing other vehicles because ADS's have zero problems doing that , I use to farm HAV's and even PRO HAV's and when I didn't have to deal with the ghost firing rail bug , I dropped ADS's like a fly swatter swatting flies , it's just the fact that these same players just want to farm infantry and that's why they changed the ADS's as well as HAV's .

Look at the OP's statement about HAV's being fine but ADS's need attention , that's just plain bias , ADS's have to deal with nothing compared to HAV's , proxy mines , packed remotes , assault HMG's , swarms , forges , nova knives and AV grenades as well as PLC's all target HAV's and HAV's have nowhere the maneuverability that ADS's have , ADS's can climb and evade if they use AB's but it seems that most who call themselves pilots can't conceive this , I use to evade swarms using AB's constantly and you can hear them being fired ... if your the only vehicle around and someone is firing swarms , chances are their firing at you , I mean , who else could they target ?

These people just have zero situational awareness as well as their wanting need to farm infantry . Stop trying to use vehicles to farm infantry and kill other vehicles , you would find yourself having far more success if you did that , as well as troop transport .

It's more the mentality of these people who call themselves pilots then it is the weapons that's used against them .

Just because you can't best something or someone , doesn't mean that .. their OP or deserve a nerf , maybe you just need to get better at what you do and think more about how you approach a situation .

I refuse to spend another dime on this game until it gets better but to prove a point , I won't do this because I smashed too many pilots and operators all ready and the point being , these pilots that are complaining will still suck .

They just don't see themselves as the problem .

Edit : If Rattati want to fly with a pilot , tell him to message me and I might spend another respec , just so he can make a comparison between myself and others ... I would love to hear his finding and I bet he would say that I was one of the best that he flew with .

That's not bragging , I just know my limits .

You honor me kind sir.

sorry to hear that you are having problems as an ADS pilot and some of what you say may be true however i personally do not believe swarms are that powerful even on a minmando

try using a light shiled booster along with a single hardener and a the best shiled extender you can fit

my python consists of these items
basic light shiled booster
basic heavy shiled extender
enhanced shiled hardener
enhanced PG mod
20GJ particle accelerator ( I use it for Arial dog fights rather then vs infantry but it can be easily switched out for a missile launcher)

I may not have too much invested into vehicles but this simple fitting is enough to do whatever I need to while having enough hp to take a few hits and being able to regen a lot faster due to the shiled booster, shields have resistance to explosives 20% reduction in fact so swarms arent doing as much damge as you might think

you may think you are a good pilot but there is always more you can learn try to improve your skill as a pilot as being a pilot takes a lot more skill then most other things, you can easily outrun swarms in an ADS if you are a good pilot and with heavy investment into vehicle skills you can do a lot more

You honor me kind sir.

Darth is a turtle not a pilot

An ADS with dual hardeners can rep through a double DMG modded FG - so if swarms are only this powerful where's the problem?

Bad pilots with crap fits (that's the problem)

I've had milita DS escape from my triple DMG modded minmando and proto swarms...

I wish I was a turtle. I'd probably survive more swarm hits

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

You honor me kind sir.

I think you just got your first project as CPM. You can do what Judge was supposed to do a year ago, work with the community to come up with a balanced Dropship proposal.

I'm really, really bad when it comes to flying Dropships. I even had training sessions, doing nothing but trying to fly them only to crash, burn and die in the most pathetic ways possible. GM Scotsman, now he could do some good flyin'. Anyhow, my unofficial, personal opinion about ADS is still the same:

Assault Dropships were hilariously, ridiculously annoying and resilient. Sure they were relatively rare, but every single game I played where there was 1 or 2 of these beasts, they just dominated the battlefield. Whole squads were herded by them into buildings, below bridges etc. or simply killed on spot. And when me and some others switched to AV, proto or not, our combined effort was only ever enough to drive them off for about half a minute. Then they would be back, full shields and armor, kill a couple AV guys, and just "yolo out of there like Maverick and Goose" when we managed to get another few hits in.

If anyone thinks they were balanced or good as near-invincible godlike shepherds of the skies, I have to respectfully disagree.

What this man said .

These people that complain about DS's can't fly out of a barn to begin with and whenever they get hit , the first blow sends them into the ground and they come to the forums and complain about how x or z needs a nerf because it's too powerful .

I've faced many so called " pilots " myself and they just suck , don't know how to steady a DS from a swarm , forge or a PLC blast but these are the critics and those whom you should listen too for balancing issues and they can't even fly ?

The man said it himself and he's spot on in his summery .

Edit : You people that say that swarms are a " aimless " weapon , need to stop , you have to aim to attain a lock and specialist swarms are even harder but you people keep spouting the same thing like you belong to some anti-swarm cult or something , just because you keep saying it , doesn't mean that it's true .

Stop lying .

On the swarm vs forge gun against ADS issue,
here is some footage:
https://youtu.be/5ZO5wI6v50I


Granted it is a single match only and very very situational (like hardeners on or off) but it nevertheless demonstrates my opinion on which one works.
Watch for yourself and you see my opinion.

On the swarm vs forge gun against ADS issue,
here is some footage:
https://youtu.be/5ZO5wI6v50I


Granted it is a single match only and very very situational (like hardeners on or off) but it nevertheless demonstrates my opinion on which one works.
Watch for yourself and you see my opinion.