DUST Search - Scrambler

Francois Sanchez wrote:

Varoth Drac wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

Varoth Drac wrote:

Union118 wrote:

It too powerful against armor. It supposed to be a shield melter. It melts armor even faster. I watched it melt a heavy in what seemed like a 3 seconds. The heavy should have won hand down considering how close they were yet the amarr survived with a few ticks.

An SMG does more dps to armour than a scrambler rifle.

No it doesn't. It does nearly twice as much damage than an smg but only fires 250 rpm slower (not 100% on the fire rate but I'm sure it's close).

Edit: rpm difference is 400 but it still deals more DPS.

I ran the numbers. I am correct.

edit:

Scramber rifle:
Damage 65
7 shots a second average (generous)
dps = 65*7 = 455
dps vs armour = 455 * 0.8(damage profile) = 364 dps

SMG:
dps = 350
vs armour = 350 * 1.15(damage profile) * 1.15(proficiency) = 463 dps

Comparision: 364/463 = 79% . Against armour the scrambler rifle does only about 79% of the dps of an smg.

7 shots a second? Lol

While I do a agree the 10 shots per second isn't reachable without a turbo controller, I tested how many times I could fire it and it's 8.5 shots per second. And I know plenty of people that are slightly faster than me so 9 shots per second.

Six kin SMG : 442.75 DPS against armour

Viziam ScR (8.5 shots) : 486.2

Viziam 9 shots : 514.8

Viziam 10 shots : 572

And even if you had a lower DPS vs armour than the SMG, it still wouldn't compensate the crazy DPS you reach against shield and the charge shot.
The true balance would be to have a LOWER base DPS than all the other rifles without the charge shot and to outDPS them with the charge shot ready. That would be balanced and require some skill.

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Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.17 12:21:00 - [31] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: 7 shots a second? Lol While I do a agree the 10 shots per second isn't reachable without a turbo controller, I tested how many times I could fire it and it's 8.5 shots per second. And I know plenty of people that are slightly faster than me so 9 shots per second. Your average, in-battle, shots per second? A reasonable number to use to considers balance? Anyone that believes this hasn't taken the time to engage their brain at all. And yes it's my average tested in batlle. And if you think nobody can go over 7 shots a second you wouldn't mind a max RoF nerf to 450 RPM right? I don't mean nobody can go over 7 shots a second. It's just a reasonably high estimate of the average rate of fire in battle by the majority of competent players. Yes people fire at higher rates sometimes. Some people can only manage a lower rate. You might be exceptional and manage to consistently fire faster than most other players. I was trying to use a rate that you might reasonably come up against in battle, if you faced a practiced scrambler user. The problem with curtailing the maximum RPM is that you will introduce oversampling when players fail to fire at the perfect rhythm. People would have to fire at a lower rate to avoid the danger of getting the rhythm slightly off and oversampling. That said, perhaps you are right that the max rate of fire should be reduced. Increasing the scrambler rifle's player skill requirement by encouraging rhythm. Much like the combat rifle. Say the max rof was reduced to 500rpm (to try to avoid oversampling). Say I upped my estimate of reasonable rof to 8 shots a second. Bear in mind I used 7 as previous discussions on the forums has suggested that 6 shots a second was reasonable. At 8 shots a second RPM = 480 Scrambler dps vs armour = 520 * 0.8 = 416 As previously stated, SMG dps vs armour = 463 This shows that scrambler rifles fired at 8 shots a second do only 90% of the dps of an SMG. The main point of my comment is to put into perspective claims about the scrambler rifle's potency against armour.
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 924	Posted - 2015.08.17 13:27:00 - [32] - Quote You are manipulating the data to prove your point. You are also applying proficiency to the Smg to skew it further in your favour. Use the actual values of the scrambler rifle, the ones that are actually achievable not 'i only fire seven shots per second so that's the way I'll work out DPS'. 520 is the actual DPS against armour don't lower it to try prove a point. Wanna play eve?
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.17 14:23:00 - [33] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: You are manipulating the data to prove your point. You are also applying proficiency to the Smg to skew it further in your favour. Use the actual values of the scrambler rifle, the ones that are actually achievable not 'i only fire seven shots per second so that's the way I'll work out DPS'. 520 is the actual DPS against armour don't lower it to try prove a point. Leaving out proficiency would be skewing the data, as proficiency is in the game. Using 520 as the armour dps would also be skewing the data as that involves an unrealistic rate of fire. Are you really trying to claim that people generally fire the scrambler by pressing the trigger 10 times a second? Think about that for a minute. 10 times a second. No. Just no.
Bob Strife Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.08.17 15:32:00 - [34] - Quote V1RONXSS wrote: Union118 wrote: Idk all i see is scramblers on the kill feed most games. Idk how my caldari with stacked armor plates melts faster thank my shields. You mean you see Assault Scramblers mostly. The other thing there no any good balanced CQC rifle, how about GEK's? Ppl who r always moaning on forums about "FOTM" already made this game more unbalanced as it was post Uprising. I've skilled AR to almost perfect and even than i still prefer adv ASCR to pro AR for CQC, as its outperform it and even has scope. But you right, regardless from official stats, ASCR and SCR do better against shields and armor in comparison to AR. Wich should be actually vice versa. The AR does need a rework. A nice buff would be great. The TAR is great at dealing damage but without a good trigger finger your pretty much ******
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 151	Posted - 2015.08.17 15:38:00 - [35] - Quote Don't get me wrong, I used to hate being killed by the Scr but now that I have actually used it I kind of see that my judgments on it were wrong. Yeah it melts the crap out of armor, but not faster than it does to shields and it's mainly achievable by adding damage mods, which is where I think people tend to overreact about weapons "opness". I had three different fits with ASCR on them. One had 1 damage mod, one had two and one had three and there was a VERY noticeable difference between the way the rifle cut through armor with each one. The hipfire isn't that good on the Scr, it's better at mid range and I know it sucks when you are tiptoeing through the tulips in an open field and get rekt by the scr, but if that's the case you are just going to have to keep more to cover to avoid it, or get close enough to where it can't hurt you as much. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Mex-0 Corrosive Synergy 842	Posted - 2015.08.17 15:48:00 - [36] - Quote sees another ScR QQ thread Leaves forums forever Inactive because of old PS3
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 151	Posted - 2015.08.17 15:53:00 - [37] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Union118 wrote: It too powerful against armor. It supposed to be a shield melter. It melts armor even faster. I watched it melt a heavy in what seemed like a 3 seconds. The heavy should have won hand down considering how close they were yet the amarr survived with a few ticks. An SMG does more dps to armour than a scrambler rifle. No it doesn't. It does nearly twice as much damage than an smg but only fires 250 rpm slower (not 100% on the fire rate but I'm sure it's close). Edit: rpm difference is 400 but it still deals more DPS. I ran the numbers. I am correct. edit: Scramber rifle: Damage 65 7 shots a second average (generous) dps = 657 = 455 dps vs armour = 455 0.8(damage profile) = 364 dps SMG: dps = 350 vs armour = 350 * 1.15(damage profile) * 1.15(proficiency) = 463 dps Comparision: 364/463 = 79% . Against armour the scrambler rifle does only about 79% of the dps of an smg. 7 shots a second? Lol While I do a agree the 10 shots per second isn't reachable without a turbo controller, I tested how many times I could fire it and it's 8.5 shots per second. And I know plenty of people that are slightly faster than me so 9 shots per second. Six kin SMG : 442.75 DPS against armour Viziam ScR (8.5 shots) : 486.2 Viziam 9 shots : 514.8 Viziam 10 shots : 572 And even if you had a lower DPS vs armour than the SMG, it still wouldn't compensate the crazy DPS you reach against shield and the charge shot. The true balance would be to have a LOWER base DPS than all the other rifles without the charge shot and to outDPS them with the charge shot ready. That would be balanced and require some skill. The problem I see with this is that you are comparing a light wepaon to a sidearm. Light weapons do more damage than sidearms.....js (bigger gun bigger damage) It's like trying to compare a flaylock pistol to a mass driver or a forge gun to a rail installation. There's no point. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 506	Posted - 2015.08.17 17:30:00 - [38] - Quote Alcina Nektaria wrote: The problem I see with this is that you are comparing a light wepaon to a sidearm. Light weapons do more damage than sidearms.....js (bigger gun bigger damage) It's like trying to compare a flaylock pistol to a mass driver or a forge gun to a rail installation. There's no point. Yeah here it was just to correct the guy who was saying the SMG had more DPS than the ScR. But if you take the ACR, ARR or RR you'll see the ScR has more theoretical DPS against armour
Mex-0 Corrosive Synergy 844	Posted - 2015.08.20 20:38:00 - [39] - Quote 2 NOITCEFREP YLOH wrote: a darth can melt anything in a charge and a follow up shot. Really? Even a stacked proto sentinel with 1000+ armor? HELLO
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.20 20:48:00 - [40] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: The problem I see with this is that you are comparing a light wepaon to a sidearm. Light weapons do more damage than sidearms.....js (bigger gun bigger damage) It's like trying to compare a flaylock pistol to a mass driver or a forge gun to a rail installation. There's no point. Yeah here it was just to correct the guy who was saying the SMG had more DPS than the ScR. But if you take the ACR, ARR or RR you'll see the ScR has more theoretical DPS against armour However consider that you are comparing two different variations of rifles. Assuming the RR and CR had Tactical Variations I think it would be safe to assume that they would be very closely balanced against the ScR as the Tac AR is, or Burst and Combat Rifles are within their classes relative to one another. Lack of racial parity is also contributing to these abhorrent balance issues. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.

Darken-Sol Darken's Forge and Trade 2	Posted - 2015.08.20 20:55:00 - [41] - Quote 2 NOITCEFREP YLOH wrote: a darth can melt anything in a charge and a follow up shot. Darth s'mores get em while theyre hot. Crush them
Death Shadow117 Wolf Pack Special Forces 586	Posted - 2015.08.20 21:35:00 - [42] - Quote Count- -Crotchula wrote: Union118 wrote: It too powerful against armor. It supposed to be a shield melter. It melts armor even faster. I watched it melt a heavy in what seemed like a 3 seconds. The heavy should have won hand down considering how close they were yet the amarr survived with a few ticks. yup 800damage in a second from some laggy brazillian player yesterday. I don't really use the SCR anymore, not without a CR combo anyway because it's just ridiculous how fast you die to that thing it's scrubby even using it on it's own. ugh I hate those you think you strafed or dodged all their bullets and then you get one hit marker and instantly die "he was shooting me with an acbr and no bullets hit me I thought except one and it did 800 dam" goes to cry in corner oh alah why have you forsaken meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Duct tape fixes everything from weapons to suits and even tanks.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 362	Posted - 2015.08.20 22:05:00 - [43] - Quote Issue is charge shot plus volley that follows thats how 90% of how the kills are done its fire rate plus higher range makes the ascr obsolete it recieved armor dmg buff because the community itself are mostly armor based which is why it wasnt seeing much use n y it was buffed to begin with. We can argue this pver n over either its armor dmg needs to be lowered since it is a pure shield based weapon n for it to be the alpha of both is a joke. If not the regular scr needs a major fire rate nerf because it has a charge shot so why does it need a high fire rate. FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 188	Posted - 2015.08.21 16:46:00 - [44] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Francois Sanchez wrote: Alcina Nektaria wrote: The problem I see with this is that you are comparing a light wepaon to a sidearm. Light weapons do more damage than sidearms.....js (bigger gun bigger damage) It's like trying to compare a flaylock pistol to a mass driver or a forge gun to a rail installation. There's no point. Yeah here it was just to correct the guy who was saying the SMG had more DPS than the ScR. But if you take the ACR, ARR or RR you'll see the ScR has more theoretical DPS against armour However consider that you are comparing two different variations of rifles. Assuming the RR and CR had Tactical Variations I think it would be safe to assume that they would be very closely balanced against the ScR as the Tac AR is, or Burst and Combat Rifles are within their classes relative to one another. Lack of racial parity is also contributing to these abhorrent balance issues. But we lack this comparison so unless CCP decides they want to provide us with more rifles, we can't just go around comparing a rifle to a pistol. *KEQ Diplomat* Gallente Loyalist ... Come at me bro. A grenade to the head will most certainly get you dead.


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