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Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:36:00 - [1] - Quote It is way OP versus shields. A maxed out triple damage mod proto scrambler does somewhere around 120 shield damage per round. Depending on how fast it can be shot that takes out a 600 ish shield hp (pro cal assault) in about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and only uses 1/6 of a clip. Like seriously wtf ccp, are you dumb? How many people have to say this before you do something? Let's compare to the "cqc king" duvolle assault rifle. A fully maxed our triple damage mod duvolle assault rifle does about 53 shield damage per round. At full dps that's 11-12 rounds to destroy 600 ish shield hp and takes 0.85 to 0.9 seconds. Not to mention the range difference. I don't wanna hear **** about "but lasers kill shields that's what they are for" because you know damn well scramblers can chew through armor easy enough. Don't make me spit the math at you because we've been over it a million times. A scrambler rifle out dps a assault rifle versus armor by a wide margin even down close to 75% of its max fire rate. Again not to mention range difference which is huge! Oh now let's add in modded controllers (which I know a good number of people use, including well known vets), as well as a charge shot. Do something ccp. Wonder why shields are UP? Well this is one huge reason. No buff to shields, that isn't completely ridiculous, could ever hope to overcome this huge disadvantage.
Count- -Crotchula Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 221	Posted - 2015.08.04 16:38:00 - [2] - Quote I think another problem which people don't seem to touch on very often is the regeneration time for shield users, not only does the bulk of your HP deplete very quickly against a Viziam doing roughly 114hp to shields (3 damage mods, prof 5, not sure when factoring warbarge bonus) but it also takes them longer to get back in the fight making them less viable for combat.
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 15:58:00 - [3] - Quote Bump
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 614	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:00:00 - [4] - Quote OP: Are they ruining your paper-thin melee fit fun? Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
maybe deadcatz the nomercs 429	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:05:00 - [5] - Quote Who knows. Scrubs will be scrubs. The scrambler is just there. Overperforming even with that overheat that can kill you.(either seizing and getting shot or somehow having very low health and dying to the damage feedback) At this point i dont care. Let em run the scramblers. Their tears when they can't track me with AA fast enough or turn quick enough to stop me from knifing or shotgunning them is what lets me enjoy playing dust. Need a speedy bro scout? Mail me,comes with shotgun and 20 pound bag of catnip for teh clonocide.(teh fak,cannot spell)
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:09:00 - [6] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: OP: Are they ruining your paper-thin melee fit fun? Everything ruins my paper thin melee fit fun. But scramblers ruin all shield fits to the point of rendering them useless in the face of a proto amarr assault.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:09:00 - [7] - Quote The armor dmg is what bothers me! Between that and the CR I'm running g nonstop in my gal assault smh?! "Anybody order chaos?"
MrCriminal High Power Art.of.Death 178	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:11:00 - [8] - Quote In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Click for free stuff
Koch Rosenzweig S.K.I.L.L OF G.O.D 475	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:18:00 - [9] - Quote Here we go again... nerf the whole game so who need a heineken when you have those yummy tears *Slap in your biotic ass.* - SOG's Director & FC
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:19:00 - [10] - Quote MrCriminal High Power wrote: In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it. OK let me do some math for you. Let's take an armor suit with 600 armor hp. The six kin assault combat rifle has the highest dps versus armor doing about 715 dps versus armor with a fully maxed out, triple damage mod. This still takes about 0.85 seconds to strip 600 armor. Still far slower than the scr versus shields. The rail is even slower but can do so at more range. Care to try again?

MrCriminal High Power Art.of.Death 178	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:22:00 - [11] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: MrCriminal High Power wrote: In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it. OK let me do some math for you. Let's take an armor suit with 600 armor hp. The six kin assault combat rifle has the highest dps versus armor doing about 715 dps versus armor with a fully maxed out, triple damage mod. This still takes about 0.85 seconds to strip 600 armor. Still far slower than the scr versus shields. The rail is even slower but can do so at more range. Care to try again? I give 2 fluxes about your math the RR and CR go through my amor just like the SCR. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!! Click for free stuff
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:27:00 - [12] - Quote Koch Rosenzweig wrote: Here we go again... nerf the whole game so who need a heineken when you have those yummy tears Not tears. Balance. And Heineken sucks anyway
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:29:00 - [13] - Quote MrCriminal High Power wrote: Boot Booter wrote: MrCriminal High Power wrote: In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it. OK let me do some math for you. Let's take an armor suit with 600 armor hp. The six kin assault combat rifle has the highest dps versus armor doing about 715 dps versus armor with a fully maxed out, triple damage mod. This still takes about 0.85 seconds to strip 600 armor. Still far slower than the scr versus shields. The rail is even slower but can do so at more range. Care to try again? I give 2 fluxes about your math the RR and CR go through my amor just like the SCR. Well math cares about you regardless of the this delusion
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 809	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote Shields are getting rekt by any weapon not only by ScRs so YES, they need a buff. Now on topic: try to kill more than 2 guys on a row (2 already means that you aimed right) with a ScR. You'll for sure have to stop shooting, get some cover, pick them one by one and be very careful with your overheat. With any other weapon, you could just shoot everything without carrying about any kibd of overheat. An ScR user has to know its range, its environment and aim right more than any others or he'll get easily killed right after he killed you. That's the whole thing. You may rage because you killed by an ScR user, but if the guy didn't got rekt by your friend right after it's because he knew how to use it. Can't you destroy everything with a triple damage modded proto RR? It's exactly the same thing with ScR. Except that if the ScR misses, he's screwed, the RR will just adjust and keep shooting. Now for DMG's sake, te sbundo. Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 895	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:37:00 - [15] - Quote Scrambler threads are endemic, and I get it. I use them, and I get it. So I'm just going to post these ideas every time I see a new thread pop up. 1) The scrambler is balanced when given to any suit that isn't the Amarr Assault with 4+ ranks in its skill bar, with the EXPLICIT EXCEPTION of the charged shot, which is the main source of scram QQ. 2) Amarr Assault bonus is too good at dealing with heat buildup. Scrambler Operation skill (cooldown time) is largely irrelevant in-game. 3) Change both skills to: -Scrambler Operation: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. -Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to laser weapon overheat sieze duration per level. 10% reduction to overheat feedback damage per level. 4) Charged shot overheats the weapon irrespective of how high your Operation skill is. Now you have a scrambler that becomes more accessable to all suits the more points you put in its Operation, but at 3% instead of 5% the heat reduction no longer becomes an irrelevant factor in fire fights; even at rank 5 Operation, all players (even Amarr) must manage heat. The charged shot becomes a powerful gamble instead of an "I win" button; if you want to one-shot scouts and lightly tanked assaults from 70m + away, you'll need skill, timing and some HP left. The Amarr Assault now becomes a "Zealot", who will gladly take the burn of feedback now that it hurts them less. The sizeable drop in sieze duration means they can plow through opposition so long as they have enough HP left to do so. It's a much more interesting bonus that gives the scram user potency without becoming OP. Discuss. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 16:42:00 - [16] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Shields are getting rekt by any weapon not only by ScRs so YES, they need a buff. Now on topic: try to kill more than 2 guys on a row (2 already means that you aimed right) with a ScR. You'll for sure have to stop shooting, get some cover, pick them one by one and be very careful with your overheat. With any other weapon, you could just shoot everything without carrying about any kibd of overheat. An ScR user has to know its range, its environment and aim right more than any others or he'll get easily killed right after he killed you. That's the whole thing. You may rage because you got killed by an ScR user, but if the guy didn't got rekt by your friend right after it's because he knew how to use it. Can't you destroy everything with a triple damage modded proto RR? It's exactly the same thing with ScR. Except that if the ScR misses, he's screwed, the RR will just adjust and keep shooting. Now for DMG's sake, te sbundo. Sure.. You have to stop shooting and take cover for a total of 2 seconds. I've used the proto amarr with a scrambler quite a bit. The overheat is rarely an issue unless you're dumb and the reload is so fast that it's easy to slay, reload while it cools, and repeat. Wtf are you taking about know it's range and environment? It has an incredible range. Let's talk about the Assault rifle. That's a weapon where you have to constantly remind yourself of its terrible range. If he misses, then he's bad. Let's not involve skill into a pure mathematical disparity. I don't give a **** about DMG lol. This is about game balance.
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:08:00 - [17] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler threads are endemic, and I get it. I use them, and I get it. So I'm just going to post these ideas every time I see a new thread pop up. 1) The scrambler is balanced when given to any suit that isn't the Amarr Assault with 4+ ranks in its skill bar, with the EXPLICIT EXCEPTION of the charged shot, which is the main source of scram QQ. 2) Amarr Assault bonus is too good at dealing with heat buildup. Scrambler Operation skill (cooldown time) is largely irrelevant in-game. 3) Change both skills to: -Scrambler Operation: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. -Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to laser weapon overheat sieze duration per level. 10% reduction to overheat feedback damage per level. 4) Charged shot overheats the weapon irrespective of how high your Operation skill is. Now you have a scrambler that becomes more accessable to all suits the more points you put in its Operation, but at 3% instead of 5% the heat reduction no longer becomes an irrelevant factor in fire fights; even at rank 5 Operation, all players (even Amarr) must manage heat. The charged shot becomes a powerful gamble instead of an "I win" button; if you want to one-shot scouts and lightly tanked assaults from 70m + away, you'll need skill, timing and some HP left. The Amarr Assault now becomes a "Zealot", who will gladly take the burn of feedback now that it hurts them less. The sizeable drop in sieze duration means they can plow through opposition so long as they have enough HP left to do so. It's a much more interesting bonus that gives the scram user potency without becoming OP. Discuss. Although this is perhaps a step in the right direction. It's alpha versus shields may still be too high. It' would still be able to, for example, remove 600 shield hp in about a half second. Perhaps the disadvantage of the weapon would be more apparent and therefore balance it. Tough to say. But anyway thanks for a useful contribution.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:13:00 - [18] - Quote Honestly, weapons aren't in a super terrible place right now. Just a fine amount of tweaking needs to be done, for proper balance. The ScR is just one of them. Not to mention it's over-performing, right now, on top of that shields are UP. So it's both things, that can make a shield user feel like the ScR is an act of God. The weapon needs a fix, so do a few others. n++pâçGòÉS+ÇShields, the silent killer.n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:22:00 - [19] - Quote Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.08.05 18:19:00 - [20] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. What does TAR when you charge ... you can't charge it. Nevermind. Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User

Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:21:00 - [21] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. I feel like the TAR and the BAR have always been in a good place. They're just not commonly used, as it requires more work. Usually, but not always, if you see someone consistently getting high scores with these rifles. It's a modded controller n++pâçGòÉS+ÇShields, the silent killer.n++pâçGòÉS+Ç Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 898	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:22:00 - [22] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler threads are endemic, and I get it. I use them, and I get it. So I'm just going to post these ideas every time I see a new thread pop up. 1) The scrambler is balanced when given to any suit that isn't the Amarr Assault with 4+ ranks in its skill bar, with the EXPLICIT EXCEPTION of the charged shot, which is the main source of scram QQ. 2) Amarr Assault bonus is too good at dealing with heat buildup. Scrambler Operation skill (cooldown time) is largely irrelevant in-game. 3) Change both skills to: -Scrambler Operation: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. -Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to laser weapon overheat sieze duration per level. 10% reduction to overheat feedback damage per level. 4) Charged shot overheats the weapon irrespective of how high your Operation skill is. Now you have a scrambler that becomes more accessable to all suits the more points you put in its Operation, but at 3% instead of 5% the heat reduction no longer becomes an irrelevant factor in fire fights; even at rank 5 Operation, all players (even Amarr) must manage heat. The charged shot becomes a powerful gamble instead of an "I win" button; if you want to one-shot scouts and lightly tanked assaults from 70m + away, you'll need skill, timing and some HP left. The Amarr Assault now becomes a "Zealot", who will gladly take the burn of feedback now that it hurts them less. The sizeable drop in sieze duration means they can plow through opposition so long as they have enough HP left to do so. It's a much more interesting bonus that gives the scram user potency without becoming OP. Discuss. Although this is perhaps a step in the right direction. It's alpha versus shields may still be too high. It' would still be able to, for example, remove 600 shield hp in about a half second. Perhaps the disadvantage of the weapon would be more apparent and therefore balance it. Tough to say. But anyway thanks for a useful contribution. True, the charged shot still eradicates shields, but it can no longer follow up a hit with immediate shots, and it will damage your suit in the process. If these changes were to be implemented then the next step to bring true balance would be to look at shield tanking as a whole (specifically its high resource cost in terms of PG/CPU and suit slots compaired to actual EHP/regen gains) and, perhaps, damage profiles. I still think +20/-20 is too high. I'd rather see it become +15/-15 for both laser and explosive damage types. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:25:00 - [23] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. What does TAR when you charge ... you can't charge it. Nevermind. You don't ever need to charge the weapon. It reduces your overall DPS quite considerably. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:57:00 - [24] - Quote Squagga wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. I feel like the TAR and the BAR have always been in a good place. They're just not commonly used, as it requires more work. Usually, but not always, if you see someone consistently getting high scores with these rifles. It's a modded controller Literally just pulled a 40+ match with the TAR yesterday on my Caldari alt, Diurnal Soul. So this whole modded controller thing seems like quality bull sh+»t tbh. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:02:00 - [25] - Quote I would like to point out an undamage modded Viziam SCR has something like 5 less damage then a prof. V 6kin ACR to armor and it's a shield weapon.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:12:00 - [26] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. What does TAR when you charge ... you can't charge it. Nevermind. You also can't overheat it & get your movement penalized you also do not need to spend +2m sp to use it effectively. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:14:00 - [27] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: I would like to point out an undamage modded Viziam SCR has something like 5 less damage then a prof. V 6kin ACR to armor and it's a shield weapon. It's also a Tac weapon which are known for their high damage. If you want to compare it to a rifle then compare it to the TAR. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 809	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:24:00 - [28] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: Shields are getting rekt by any weapon not only by ScRs so YES, they need a buff. Now on topic: try to kill more than 2 guys on a row (2 already means that you aimed right) with a ScR. You'll for sure have to stop shooting, get some cover, pick them one by one and be very careful with your overheat. With any other weapon, you could just shoot everything without carrying about any kibd of overheat. An ScR user has to know its range, its environment and aim right more than any others or he'll get easily killed right after he killed you. That's the whole thing. You may rage because you got killed by an ScR user, but if the guy didn't got rekt by your friend right after it's because he knew how to use it. Can't you destroy everything with a triple damage modded proto RR? It's exactly the same thing with ScR. Except that if the ScR misses, he's screwed, the RR will just adjust and keep shooting. Now for DMG's sake, te sbundo. Sure.. You have to stop shooting and take cover for a total of 2 seconds. I've used the proto amarr with a scrambler quite a bit. The overheat is rarely an issue unless you're dumb and the reload is so fast that it's easy to slay, reload while it cools, and repeat. Wtf are you taking about know it's range and environment? It has an incredible range. Let's talk about the Assault rifle. That's a weapon where you have to constantly remind yourself of its terrible range. If he misses, then he's bad. Let's not involve skill into a pure mathematical disparity. I don't give a **** about DMG lol. This is about game balance. 2 seconds are a lot in a duel, and when I'm talking about "knowing your range" it's because I'm considering a PC match where you don't shine as much as you do in CQC with a SCR. You only considered the worst scenario of a guy who spent millions of SP into 1 weapon and 1 suit for that particular weapon. So I'll only consider a situation where you have only great players using their best fits against you. And it's where knowing your range with the ScR is important. Anything destroys militia and basic suits in half a sec, and ScR has enough burst damage to make this real quick, but once the burst is gone, you lose its advantage and a CR or RR becomes much more deadly. Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
LOL KILLZ LOS INADAPTADOS 279	Posted - 2015.08.05 22:11:00 - [29] - Quote MrCriminal High Power wrote: In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it. Yup \0/
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:12:00 - [30] - Quote Still needs to be nerfed

LOL KILLZ LOS INADAPTADOS 293	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:29:00 - [31] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Still needs to be nerfed How comes the FOTM is RR? It's called Satans spawn for a reason, it's OP. But I'm not crying for a nerf. It kills me before I can reach them with my AScR. The CR is not being used as heavily as it once was. Being favored by a higher range ARR. Range is the new meta. \0/
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:49:00 - [32] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: It is way OP versus shields. A maxed out triple damage mod proto scrambler does somewhere around 120 shield damage per round. Depending on how fast it can be shot that takes out a 600 ish shield hp (pro cal assault) in about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and only uses 1/6 of a clip. Like seriously wtf ccp, are you dumb? How many people have to say this before you do something? Let's compare to the "cqc king" duvolle assault rifle. A fully maxed our triple damage mod duvolle assault rifle does about 53 shield damage per round. At full dps that's 11-12 rounds to destroy 600 ish shield hp and takes 0.85 to 0.9 seconds. Not to mention the range difference. I don't wanna hear **** about "but lasers kill shields that's what they are for" because you know damn well scramblers can chew through armor easy enough. Don't make me spit the math at you because we've been over it a million times. A scrambler rifle out dps a assault rifle versus armor by a wide margin even down close to 75% of its max fire rate. Again not to mention range difference which is huge! Oh now let's add in modded controllers (which I know a good number of people use, including well known vets), as well as a charge shot. Do something ccp. Wonder why shields are UP? Well this is one huge reason. No buff to shields, that isn't completely ridiculous, could ever hope to overcome this huge disadvantage. Can you spit some math. The ScR looses a disproportionate amount of its potential DPS vs armour when compared to it's effectiveness vs shields. I won't dispute changes need to be made however I disagree with on what scale. Mechanical changes to the charged shot and a small change to the per shot damage could really do wonders for the rifle and bring its DPS down. However worth consideration is what would happen to the relatively closely balanced Tactical AR. Too great a change to the ScR and it would simply be a better rifle. Featuring more anti-shield DPS , more anti armour DPS, only a few metres less effective range, and with slightly less manageable recoil. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.13 20:51:00 - [33] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. What does TAR when you charge ... you can't charge it. Nevermind. You also can't overheat it & get your movement penalized you also do not need to spend +2m sp to use it effectively. You also only have about 54 DPS vs shield less than the ScR and almost 100 more DPS vs armour. Not too bad a trade off as we are all aware that both guns are operated rather similarly and the ScR has superior killing power when rapid firing as opposed to make use of the charged shot function. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 21:40:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: It is way OP versus shields. A maxed out triple damage mod proto scrambler does somewhere around 120 shield damage per round. Depending on how fast it can be shot that takes out a 600 ish shield hp (pro cal assault) in about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and only uses 1/6 of a clip. Like seriously wtf ccp, are you dumb? How many people have to say this before you do something? Let's compare to the "cqc king" duvolle assault rifle. A fully maxed our triple damage mod duvolle assault rifle does about 53 shield damage per round. At full dps that's 11-12 rounds to destroy 600 ish shield hp and takes 0.85 to 0.9 seconds. Not to mention the range difference. I don't wanna hear **** about "but lasers kill shields that's what they are for" because you know damn well scramblers can chew through armor easy enough. Don't make me spit the math at you because we've been over it a million times. A scrambler rifle out dps a assault rifle versus armor by a wide margin even down close to 75% of its max fire rate. Again not to mention range difference which is huge! Oh now let's add in modded controllers (which I know a good number of people use, including well known vets), as well as a charge shot. Do something ccp. Wonder why shields are UP? Well this is one huge reason. No buff to shields, that isn't completely ridiculous, could ever hope to overcome this huge disadvantage. Can you spit some math. The ScR looses a disproportionate amount of its potential DPS vs armour when compared to it's effectiveness vs shields. I won't dispute changes need to be made however I disagree with on what scale. Mechanical changes to the charged shot and a small change to the per shot damage could really do wonders for the rifle and bring its DPS down. However worth consideration is what would happen to the relatively closely balanced Tactical AR. Too great a change to the ScR and it would simply be a better rifle. Featuring more anti-shield DPS , more anti armour DPS, only a few metres less effective range, and with slightly less manageable recoil. I could spit some math for scr against armor but what's the point? The whole issue is that one single weapon nullifies an entire tanking philosophy... Of which there are two, shields and armor. Shields are in a good place until you run into one scr in the opposition. Two equally skilled players 1v1. One is using a shield tanked min assault with a cr, the other uses a armor tanked amarr assault with a ScR. The amarr wins every time. Why? 1) because the drawbacks of the scr are not apparent on an amarr assault and 2) the scr vs shield is by far more potent than the cr vs armor, as was shown in the OP
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP Evil Syndicate Alliance. 3	Posted - 2015.08.13 21:58:00 - [35] - Quote CCP IT KILL ME NERF NOAW. Please leave your tears in the bucket on the right. I am tired of moving it around to catch them all. The thing is getting heavy ffs. Remove NPC orbitals from FW. -- Fix orbital timers for Eve players assisting in Planetary Conquest.
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.08.13 22:05:00 - [36] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: It is way OP versus shields. A maxed out triple damage mod proto scrambler does somewhere around 120 shield damage per round. Depending on how fast it can be shot that takes out a 600 ish shield hp (pro cal assault) in about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and only uses 1/6 of a clip. Like seriously wtf ccp, are you dumb? How many people have to say this before you do something? Let's compare to the "cqc king" duvolle assault rifle. A fully maxed our triple damage mod duvolle assault rifle does about 53 shield damage per round. At full dps that's 11-12 rounds to destroy 600 ish shield hp and takes 0.85 to 0.9 seconds. Not to mention the range difference. I don't wanna hear **** about "but lasers kill shields that's what they are for" because you know damn well scramblers can chew through armor easy enough. Don't make me spit the math at you because we've been over it a million times. A scrambler rifle out dps a assault rifle versus armor by a wide margin even down close to 75% of its max fire rate. Again not to mention range difference which is huge! Oh now let's add in modded controllers (which I know a good number of people use, including well known vets), as well as a charge shot. Do something ccp. Wonder why shields are UP? Well this is one huge reason. No buff to shields, that isn't completely ridiculous, could ever hope to overcome this huge disadvantage. Can you spit some math. The ScR looses a disproportionate amount of its potential DPS vs armour when compared to it's effectiveness vs shields. I won't dispute changes need to be made however I disagree with on what scale. Mechanical changes to the charged shot and a small change to the per shot damage could really do wonders for the rifle and bring its DPS down. However worth consideration is what would happen to the relatively closely balanced Tactical AR. Too great a change to the ScR and it would simply be a better rifle. Featuring more anti-shield DPS , more anti armour DPS, only a few metres less effective range, and with slightly less manageable recoil. I could spit some math for scr against armor but what's the point? The whole issue is that one single weapon nullifies an entire tanking philosophy... Of which there are two, shields and armor. Shields are in a good place until you run into one scr in the opposition. Two equally skilled players 1v1. One is using a shield tanked min assault with a cr, the other uses a armor tanked amarr assault with a ScR. The amarr wins every time. Why? 1) because the drawbacks of the scr are not apparent on an amarr assault and 2) the scr vs shield is by far more potent than the cr vs armor, as was shown in the OP The ScR does less armor DPS than the TAR (its only competition from ARs.) Also you neglected to say the damage profile is double vs shields than the CR is vs. armor. The ScR is fine. It has been nerfed a couple times in the last few updates, while almost every other rifle has been buffed. If you want the other rifles to compete, tell CCP to look at assault bonuses, because the ScR is no where near OP without the AmAss. The only thing I dont agree with about the ScR is that you can "pre-charge" a shot 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 881	Posted - 2015.08.13 22:13:00 - [37] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shoots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. What does TAR when you charge ... you can't charge it. Nevermind. I don't see the point of this comparison. Do you insinuate that you'd like the charged-shot removed from the ScR? Then what's the point of having different kind of weapon??? Let's all play with an AR like we used to do and whine about variety then ! Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER ! - Sequal Rise
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.08.13 22:25:00 - [38] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: Two equally skilled players 1v1. One is using a shield tanked min assault with a cr, the other uses a armor tanked amarr assault with a ScR. The amarr wins every time. Why? 1) because the drawbacks of the scr are not apparent on an amarr assault and 2) the scr vs shield is by far more potent than the cr vs armor, as was shown in the OP That's a rather glaring fallacy and not set in stone at all. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
axis alpha Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 815	Posted - 2015.08.13 22:53:00 - [39] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. But there is a very short delay between shots. They need to do the same thing they did to the TAR to the scr. As it stands the TAR can't be shot the way a scr can. I cut you up so bad.... You gonna wish I no cut you up so bad.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.08.13 23:11:00 - [40] - Quote axis alpha wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. But there is a very short delay between shots. They need to do the same thing they did to the TAR to the scr. As it stands the TAR can't be shot the way a scr can. I like how fact checking is something that just completely skipped you and no one else in this thread. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."

IceShifter Childhaspawn Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 758	Posted - 2015.08.13 23:23:00 - [41] - Quote What if the weapons are in a good place and hp is just too low? Everything seems to have its place nowadays. Its no longer skill into x and win. Each style of play has a rifle best suited to it. Ttk is too low. It's hard to beat up hundreds of armor piercing bullets using only your face...
Georgia Xavier Incorruptibles 1	Posted - 2015.08.14 00:31:00 - [42] - Quote axis alpha wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Now compare it to the TAR that shots just as many rounds as an ScR with Amarr Assault level 5. But there is a very short delay between shots. They need to do the same thing they did to the TAR to the scr. As it stands the TAR can't be shot the way a scr can. Thaddeus Reynolds did an extensive test on this. The ScR and the TAR fire exactly at the same time. Just that the TAR doesn't sound like it fires fast as the scr. I forgot the name of the thread though so I can't find it for you Click for an instant good day! (or atleast cheer you up a bit)
Boot Booter Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.08.14 00:44:00 - [43] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Boot Booter wrote: Two equally skilled players 1v1. One is using a shield tanked min assault with a cr, the other uses a armor tanked amarr assault with a ScR. The amarr wins every time. Why? 1) because the drawbacks of the scr are not apparent on an amarr assault and 2) the scr vs shield is by far more potent than the cr vs armor, as was shown in the OP That's a rather glaring fallacy and not set in stone at all. How? Have you tried facing an amarr assault in a shield suit before. If you have and still think that is a glaring fallacy then you must be the best player in dust. The math shows this, my personal experience confirms it.


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