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Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.04 16:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is way OP versus shields. A maxed out triple damage mod proto scrambler does somewhere around 120 shield damage per round. Depending on how fast it can be shot that takes out a 600 ish shield hp (pro cal assault) in about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and only uses 1/6 of a clip. Like seriously wtf ccp, are you dumb? How many people have to say this before you do something?
Let's compare to the "cqc king" duvolle assault rifle. A fully maxed our triple damage mod duvolle assault rifle does about 53 shield damage per round. At full dps that's 11-12 rounds to destroy 600 ish shield hp and takes 0.85 to 0.9 seconds. Not to mention the range difference.
I don't wanna hear **** about "but lasers kill shields that's what they are for" because you know damn well scramblers can chew through armor easy enough. Don't make me spit the math at you because we've been over it a million times. A scrambler rifle out dps a assault rifle versus armor by a wide margin even down close to 75% of its max fire rate. Again not to mention range difference which is huge!
Oh now let's add in modded controllers (which I know a good number of people use, including well known vets), as well as a charge shot.
Do something ccp. Wonder why shields are UP? Well this is one huge reason. No buff to shields, that isn't completely ridiculous, could ever hope to overcome this huge disadvantage. |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 15:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bump |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bremen van Equis wrote:OP: Are they ruining your paper-thin melee fit fun?
Everything ruins my paper thin melee fit fun. But scramblers ruin all shield fits to the point of rendering them useless in the face of a proto amarr assault. |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
MrCriminal High Power wrote:In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it.
OK let me do some math for you. Let's take an armor suit with 600 armor hp. The six kin assault combat rifle has the highest dps versus armor doing about 715 dps versus armor with a fully maxed out, triple damage mod. This still takes about 0.85 seconds to strip 600 armor. Still far slower than the scr versus shields. The rail is even slower but can do so at more range.
Care to try again? |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Koch Rosenzweig wrote:Here we go again... nerf the whole game so
who need a heineken when you have those yummy tears
Not tears. Balance.
And Heineken sucks anyway |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
MrCriminal High Power wrote:Boot Booter wrote:MrCriminal High Power wrote:In this case NERF the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle along with it. OK let me do some math for you. Let's take an armor suit with 600 armor hp. The six kin assault combat rifle has the highest dps versus armor doing about 715 dps versus armor with a fully maxed out, triple damage mod. This still takes about 0.85 seconds to strip 600 armor. Still far slower than the scr versus shields. The rail is even slower but can do so at more range. Care to try again? I give 2 fluxes about your math the RR and CR go through my amor just like the SCR.
Well math cares about you regardless of the this delusion
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Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 16:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Shields are getting rekt by any weapon not only by ScRs so YES, they need a buff.
Now on topic: try to kill more than 2 guys on a row (2 already means that you aimed right) with a ScR. You'll for sure have to stop shooting, get some cover, pick them one by one and be very careful with your overheat. With any other weapon, you could just shoot everything without carrying about any kibd of overheat.
An ScR user has to know its range, its environment and aim right more than any others or he'll get easily killed right after he killed you. That's the whole thing. You may rage because you got killed by an ScR user, but if the guy didn't got rekt by your friend right after it's because he knew how to use it.
Can't you destroy everything with a triple damage modded proto RR? It's exactly the same thing with ScR. Except that if the ScR misses, he's screwed, the RR will just adjust and keep shooting.
Now for DMG's sake, te sbundo.
Sure.. You have to stop shooting and take cover for a total of 2 seconds. I've used the proto amarr with a scrambler quite a bit. The overheat is rarely an issue unless you're dumb and the reload is so fast that it's easy to slay, reload while it cools, and repeat. Wtf are you taking about know it's range and environment? It has an incredible range. Let's talk about the Assault rifle. That's a weapon where you have to constantly remind yourself of its terrible range.
If he misses, then he's bad. Let's not involve skill into a pure mathematical disparity.
I don't give a **** about DMG lol. This is about game balance. |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.05 17:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Scrambler threads are endemic, and I get it. I use them, and I get it. So I'm just going to post these ideas every time I see a new thread pop up.
1) The scrambler is balanced when given to any suit that isn't the Amarr Assault with 4+ ranks in its skill bar, with the EXPLICIT EXCEPTION of the charged shot, which is the main source of scram QQ.
2) Amarr Assault bonus is too good at dealing with heat buildup. Scrambler Operation skill (cooldown time) is largely irrelevant in-game.
3) Change both skills to: -Scrambler Operation: 3% reduction to heat build up per level. -Amarr Assault: 15% reduction to laser weapon overheat sieze duration per level. 10% reduction to overheat feedback damage per level.
4) Charged shot overheats the weapon irrespective of how high your Operation skill is.
Now you have a scrambler that becomes more accessable to all suits the more points you put in its Operation, but at 3% instead of 5% the heat reduction no longer becomes an irrelevant factor in fire fights; even at rank 5 Operation, all players (even Amarr) must manage heat. The charged shot becomes a powerful gamble instead of an "I win" button; if you want to one-shot scouts and lightly tanked assaults from 70m + away, you'll need skill, timing and some HP left.
The Amarr Assault now becomes a "Zealot", who will gladly take the burn of feedback now that it hurts them less. The sizeable drop in sieze duration means they can plow through opposition so long as they have enough HP left to do so. It's a much more interesting bonus that gives the scram user potency without becoming OP.
Discuss.
Although this is perhaps a step in the right direction. It's alpha versus shields may still be too high. It' would still be able to, for example, remove 600 shield hp in about a half second. Perhaps the disadvantage of the weapon would be more apparent and therefore balance it. Tough to say. But anyway thanks for a useful contribution.
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Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Still needs to be nerfed |
Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.13 21:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Boot Booter wrote:It is way OP versus shields. A maxed out triple damage mod proto scrambler does somewhere around 120 shield damage per round. Depending on how fast it can be shot that takes out a 600 ish shield hp (pro cal assault) in about 0.5 to 0.6 seconds and only uses 1/6 of a clip. Like seriously wtf ccp, are you dumb? How many people have to say this before you do something?
Let's compare to the "cqc king" duvolle assault rifle. A fully maxed our triple damage mod duvolle assault rifle does about 53 shield damage per round. At full dps that's 11-12 rounds to destroy 600 ish shield hp and takes 0.85 to 0.9 seconds. Not to mention the range difference.
I don't wanna hear **** about "but lasers kill shields that's what they are for" because you know damn well scramblers can chew through armor easy enough. Don't make me spit the math at you because we've been over it a million times. A scrambler rifle out dps a assault rifle versus armor by a wide margin even down close to 75% of its max fire rate. Again not to mention range difference which is huge!
Oh now let's add in modded controllers (which I know a good number of people use, including well known vets), as well as a charge shot.
Do something ccp. Wonder why shields are UP? Well this is one huge reason. No buff to shields, that isn't completely ridiculous, could ever hope to overcome this huge disadvantage. Can you spit some math. The ScR looses a disproportionate amount of its potential DPS vs armour when compared to it's effectiveness vs shields. I won't dispute changes need to be made however I disagree with on what scale. Mechanical changes to the charged shot and a small change to the per shot damage could really do wonders for the rifle and bring its DPS down. However worth consideration is what would happen to the relatively closely balanced Tactical AR. Too great a change to the ScR and it would simply be a better rifle. Featuring more anti-shield DPS , more anti armour DPS, only a few metres less effective range, and with slightly less manageable recoil.
I could spit some math for scr against armor but what's the point? The whole issue is that one single weapon nullifies an entire tanking philosophy... Of which there are two, shields and armor. Shields are in a good place until you run into one scr in the opposition.
Two equally skilled players 1v1. One is using a shield tanked min assault with a cr, the other uses a armor tanked amarr assault with a ScR. The amarr wins every time. Why? 1) because the drawbacks of the scr are not apparent on an amarr assault and 2) the scr vs shield is by far more potent than the cr vs armor, as was shown in the OP |
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Boot Booter
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Boot Booter wrote:
Two equally skilled players 1v1. One is using a shield tanked min assault with a cr, the other uses a armor tanked amarr assault with a ScR. The amarr wins every time. Why? 1) because the drawbacks of the scr are not apparent on an amarr assault and 2) the scr vs shield is by far more potent than the cr vs armor, as was shown in the OP
That's a rather glaring fallacy and not set in stone at all.
How? Have you tried facing an amarr assault in a shield suit before. If you have and still think that is a glaring fallacy then you must be the best player in dust. The math shows this, my personal experience confirms it. |
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