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The reason scramblers FEEL OP

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Ghosts Chance Intara Direct Action Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.26 10:56:00 - [1] - Quote Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 878	Posted - 2015.07.26 11:11:00 - [2] - Quote Scrambler advocate though I am, I did get melted by a viziam yesterday in about two and half seconds, from full hpI. In a galmando. Im guessing the issue lies in the charge shots and the follow on hits that just obliterate suits in cqc. If charge shots always overheated tje weapon a la ion pistol they'd be far less indomitable at.close range. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
Echo 1991 Corrosive Synergy No Context 908	Posted - 2015.07.26 11:20:00 - [3] - Quote Does more damage to armour than a rail rifle. So I'm fairly certain its not because shields give less HP. The weapon is too strong. Wanna play eve?
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 2	Posted - 2015.07.26 11:23:00 - [4] - Quote -LR deals 150 dmg when overheated, add this to ScR.. the current 50 dmg is nothing to most fits -Clipsize on ScR is good, make full charge shots use 5-10 bullets at once (lore-more energy cells added to the charge, bla) -Instant overheat is one option, but the increase in ammo use for charging, maybe more heat for a full charge, is good Bla, bla, bla.. it takes skill to sit on my ass using the R1 button without burning my fingers QQ After this long, no-one cares with my proposal, all the white knights defending ScR as it takes more skill/thought/triggerspamming.. would have the chance to prove it, as stats would be the same for dmg dealt.. Only those drawbacks used to defend ScR OPness would actually exist, the current ones are nothing compared to the effectiveness of the weapon, an increase in ammo use, heat build-up and overheat dmg.. then I'll give you credit... CCP place way to much reward in just being able to point a gun and fire it.. ScR is the best example, anyone with average gun-game will destroy people with this weapon, as we've seen for ages now... meh, I gave up and just carry ducktape to patch my suit everytime a ScR tears me a new hole Trainwreck forum posting prof.5 Sorry I am too busy to come to the phone right now, I am actually playing the game.
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 12:47:00 - [5] - Quote It's charge shot Ghost. Out of everything else (crazy damage, accuracy etc), charge shot is the problem. You can't use cover if you lose 500 hp instantly after taking a step out of cover. This means : turn around and never go within 100 meters to ScR. It should act like Ion Pistol. After charge shot it should overheat. Loyal to The State Official Caldari Commando User
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 13:40:00 - [6] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: It's charge shot Ghost. Out of everything else (crazy damage, accuracy etc), charge shot is the problem. You can't use cover if you lose 500 hp instantly after taking a step out of cover. This means : turn around and never go within 100 meters to ScR. It should act like Ion Pistol. After charge shot it should overheat. Ps. 500 armor suit has better surviving chances vs ACR (pro) than 500 shield suit vs std A/ScR. This. Charge shot should be a finisher, you shouldn't be able to just open up outta the gate with a huge alpha strike and -then- spam R1 to win. Also, ya' know, the whole basic ScR has better potential DPS vs armor than even the Experimental RR with level 5 proficiency thing.... ScR DPS vs Armor: 520 ERR DPS vs Armor with lv 5 proficiency: 518 O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
xavier zor Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 13:55:00 - [7] - Quote The scrambler rifle is OP, the charge mechanic needs to work the same as the ion pistol... I pull out an assault ck.0 with my trusty duvolle AR, kill 6 or so on the bridge then they all come out with some for of scrambler. There was even a caldari assault with a scrambler! Shield tanking is hard mode shield tanking is hard mode, period. currently fighting for 100% of MH Rexero!
Yoda Boss Dem Durrty Boyz 226	Posted - 2015.07.26 13:59:00 - [8] - Quote It's op cuz it dose 196% damage w/ headshot against shields. But it won't do that to armor. The acr and cr are way worse. They actually have a bonuse against armor. They melt armor. NEFF the cr. Nerf the acr. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 711	Posted - 2015.07.26 14:13:00 - [9] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Scrambler advocate though I am, I did get melted by a viziam yesterday in about two and half seconds, from full hpI. In a galmando. Im guessing the issue lies in the charge shots and the follow on hits that just obliterate suits in cqc. If charge shots always overheated tje weapon a la ion pistol they'd be far less indomitable at.close range. we need more people to admit this first as many still advocate for it for the wrong reasons click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 711	Posted - 2015.07.26 14:21:00 - [10] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Mejt0 wrote: It's charge shot Ghost. Out of everything else (crazy damage, accuracy etc), charge shot is the problem. You can't use cover if you lose 500 hp instantly after taking a step out of cover. This means : turn around and never go within 100 meters to ScR. It should act like Ion Pistol. After charge shot it should overheat. Ps. 500 armor suit has better surviving chances vs ACR (pro) than 500 shield suit vs std A/ScR. This. Charge shot should be a finisher, you shouldn't be able to just open up outta the gate with a huge alpha strike and -then- spam R1 to win. Also, ya' know, the whole basic ScR has better potential DPS vs armor than even the Experimental RR with level 5 proficiency thing.... ScR DPS vs Armor: 520 ERR DPS vs Armor with lv 5 proficiency: 518 this coupled with many things that favor armor like the plates having half the fitting cost but giving 2.5x the amount of health, the profile that made it need to be balanced against armor in the first place which made it unfair for shields although not many believe that click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's

Sicerly Yaw Corrosive Synergy No Context 711	Posted - 2015.07.26 14:27:00 - [11] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? shields need a buff and the ScR needs a rework not a nerf or a buff, the plates give a bit over 2.5 times the health not just 2 times shields dont seem weaker in comparison they are weaker as they should be to laser weaponry but that doesn't mean the ScR is comletly fine as the RR still does far less damge to armor then the potential damage to armor that the ScR has even the AScR and they also have comparable range which should not be the case you bring up some good points but it seems you may be misinformed about the numbers click here if you are making a new account and want some free BPO's
Sgt Kirk Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 11	Posted - 2015.07.26 14:55:00 - [12] - Quote The plan is simple, ~~we kill the batman~~ make it cool down after a charged shot. The AsScr on the other hand needs overall tuning in general. I could see their point if you actually had to worry about overheating the gun but as is? Nah, fire, forget, profit. Sgt Kirk's Official Propaganda Youtube Channel
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RUST415 338	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:11:00 - [13] - Quote scr is so op that I can't disengage and just get a better vantage point on the scr user... scr forces me to fight even when I don't want to... scr forces me to use a call assault thinking I can be safe from +20% to shields... Director / Slayer / Emperor
DeadlyAztec11 Defenders of the Helghast Dream 8	Posted - 2015.07.26 16:16:00 - [14] - Quote I doubt it. The Minmatar Assault is one of the the best.suits in the game and yet is a shield suit. I think the issue is that many people are trying to use shields as simply another type of armor. They forget that while armor is supposed to be a brawling type of defense shields are supposed to be weaker but quickly repairable. Granted it's unfair that to run armor one must skill into only two specific skills while shields must skill into three. Shields don't really feel that bad to me. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
jace silencerww MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 185	Posted - 2015.07.26 16:29:00 - [15] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Mejt0 wrote: It's charge shot Ghost. Out of everything else (crazy damage, accuracy etc), charge shot is the problem. You can't use cover if you lose 500 hp instantly after taking a step out of cover. This means : turn around and never go within 100 meters to ScR. It should act like Ion Pistol. After charge shot it should overheat. Ps. 500 armor suit has better surviving chances vs ACR (pro) than 500 shield suit vs std A/ScR. This. Charge shot should be a finisher, you shouldn't be able to just open up outta the gate with a huge alpha strike and -then- spam R1 to win. Also, ya' know, the whole basic ScR has better potential DPS vs armor than even the Experimental RR with level 5 proficiency thing.... ScR DPS vs Armor: 520 ERR DPS vs Armor with lv 5 proficiency: 518 lol take a look 75 both optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol
Piercing Serenity Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 17:14:00 - [16] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I doubt it. The Minmatar Assault is one of the the best.suits in the game and yet is a shield suit. I think the issue is that many people are trying to use shields as simply another type of armor. They forget that while armor is supposed to be a brawling type of defense shields are supposed to be weaker but quickly repairable. Granted it's unfair that to run armor one must skill into only two specific skills while shields must skill into three. Shields don't really feel that bad to me. Scrambler Rifles are not necessarily out of line though when compared to the Standard AR and Rail Rifle on the Caldari Assault they are. The Standard AR needs a fundamental buff because currently it is not better than the Standard Scrambler Rifle or Assault Scrambler Rifle in close quarters. The Caldari Assault skill needs to be changed because better reloading is weak. It is very useful at level V with level V reloading, but it would be better to have a skill that allows one win a fight so one can worry about reloading. I disagree. The Minmatar Assault may be a shield suit by lore, but the flexibility of its slots coupled with the very low (comparative) fitting requirements of armor mods makes it way more beneficial to run the suit as an armor or dual tanked fit. I've been shield tanking for about two years, and genuinely enjoy the faster "Stick and move" playstyle of shield tanking. However, it is impossible to make a shield fit that can compete in a way that armor fits can't do as well, or better. Case in point: I currently have ~40M SP and was messing around with some Mk.0 fits. This fit is way more competitive than this one. To summarize, my armor centric fitting gains 92 eHP, 8 armor hp/s, and a 13% light weapon damage increase. The "sacrifice" I incur by choosing the first fit (armor) over the second one (shield) 18 shield hp/s (25 v. 43), four seconds on my shield recharge delay, and five seconds on my shield depleted delay. "For people who don't really do S**T, ya'll really doing the most" Lv. 1 Forum Warrior
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Battalion 881	Posted - 2015.07.26 17:21:00 - [17] - Quote Half of the problem also lies with the amarr assault. At rank five it simply negates the major balancing factor of the scram. Conversely, using the scram without the ak is just a frustrating experience. So, we change the operational skill to heat build up reduction, say three percent per level, make the assault suit skill a reduction to seize duration and damage, and then make charge shots overheat by default. Fixed, fair, more accessable to heathens. shudders Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
JIMvc2 Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 17:22:00 - [18] - Quote Another idiot said " Buff shields but nerf Cal weapons" = NO. In my experience the Scrambler is meh. I don't use it much but I've been killed with it = meh won't complain. Why did the white girl cross the road? To get to Starbucks. <-- My GF will kill me if I ask her that lol :)
Operative 1174 Uuali True Companion Planetary Requisitions 975	Posted - 2015.07.26 17:40:00 - [19] - Quote I'm getting three shotted in an aromor suit. Even a Mil Laser Rifle goes right through. Yeah, laser weapons in general are OP. I shouldn't be seeing the same effectivness on armor as other weapons. MY CPM2 PLATFORM
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 262	Posted - 2015.07.26 17:59:00 - [20] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? The gun is OP because its OP. Theres nothing else to it. It melts shield, it melts armour. It melts shield and armour when dual tanking. High dps fast reload, brilliant in long range, short range, medium range, has a charge shot that multiplies damage, takes 2 seconds to fully charge, can fire multiple shots after high damage charge up and if you run the Amarr Assault suit the heat up is not even a factor... But no its not OP its just that Shields are too weak... Lolz, get ready for the nerf my friend, there is no argument you can make to stop it happening.

Omaarion27 Vader's-Fist 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 18:12:00 - [21] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? i spy with my little eye someone so scared of the eminent nerf of the scrambler, theyve come up with a thread to justify it oppnesss. i love the scr but i realized how op it was and will never touch it again until it is balanced. its not just insanely op against shields it still tears up armor, i don't even need the smg but when i use an ar a weapon suppose to have the same purpose as the scr, i still find it a struggle getting through the armor, that's how the scr should feel. "they hate us because they anus" CAL n GAL FTFW disagree meet me in battle n taste the RAILnPLASMA flavor; it be spi
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game 750	Posted - 2015.07.26 18:37:00 - [22] - Quote Let me log into my alt, this thread needs more like. WON'T YOU PLEASE TAKE ME HOME !
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 18:40:00 - [23] - Quote Nerf it! People will still complain just like they have for the past year. Anyone remember 1.7 when they were a lot easier to use than now? No, because you all flocked to the RR and CR... Anyways, I'm just worried if CCP ruins the weapon on non Amarr suits. As for the Amarr Assault, if we were to change its bonus with operational skill of the ScR we may just make the ScR useful on non Amarr Suits, but then the Amarr Assault would "reward" overheating which is something we don't want. AmarrFTW "The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Jalame La Bola Shining Flame Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:06:00 - [24] - Quote Seems like the semi auto scrambler rifle has been off for the past few days. The rate of fire feels different. It's probably been silently nerfed yet you pillocks continue whining about it.
Ghosts Chance Intara Direct Action Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:17:00 - [25] - Quote lol at everyone who thinks im being a scrambler advocate, i dont even use the thing. i was hardcore minmatar, now im respeced pure caldari, if anything im the person who stands to gain the most from a scrambler nerf..... Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Darken-Sol Darken's Forge and Trade 2	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:23:00 - [26] - Quote The reason scramblers feel OP is because i use two Darths on my Stormraider, a Complex damage mod, Prof V, and level 3 warbarge damage. Your little scout bodies never had a chance. Crush them
Ghosts Chance Intara Direct Action Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:29:00 - [27] - Quote Darken-Sol wrote: The reason scramblers feel OP is because i use two Darths on my Stormraider, a Complex damage mod, Prof V, and level 3 warbarge damage. Your little scout bodies never had a chance. thats just a waste.... Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Sergeant Snuggles INFAM0US 174	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:33:00 - [28] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Go to bed. You're drunk. In a world without ISK, we might have been heroes.
Ghosts Chance Intara Direct Action Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:35:00 - [29] - Quote Sergeant Snuggles wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Go to bed. You're drunk. you know you miss me Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Sergeant Snuggles INFAM0US 174	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:36:00 - [30] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Sergeant Snuggles wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Go to bed. You're drunk. you know you miss me I'll scramble your rifle In a world without ISK, we might have been heroes.

Radiant Pancake3 Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 510	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:37:00 - [31] - Quote On a totally half unrelated topic... Y.A.M.A.H came up with the idea that Scrambler Rifles shoot Laser Dild0s... It... was a weird conversation... Personal Manager of Destinys Immortals Join Logi Heaven! Chat: "Triage Ward" Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Minmatar Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Sergeant Snuggles INFAM0US 174	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:40:00 - [32] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: On a totally half unrelated topic... Y.A.M.A.H came up with the idea that Scrambler Rifles shoot Laser Dild0s... It... was a weird conversation... Weird for who? I thought this was common knowledge. You see, dildos are the future. In a world without ISK, we might have been heroes.
Salvador-SIX7 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.26 20:46:00 - [33] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? I do agree that shield require a buff but what I don't agree with is that scrambler rifle doesn't require a nerf, yes a weapon that does 65 dmg and has a critical dmg multiplier of 2.25 and can be spammed doesn't require a little bit of nerfing note I don't want the ScR rifle dmg to be nerfed instead its fire rate if you can't pop fire the thing it wont be as broken now the assault variant is a different story drop that ******* dmg down to 36 again and laser rifle definetly need to have its dmg rebalanced
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 993	Posted - 2015.07.26 21:00:00 - [34] - Quote Hey, man. Whatever you guys need to justify buffing my shields Shields, the silent killer.
Salvador-SIX7 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.26 22:25:00 - [35] - Quote Squagga wrote: Hey, man. Whatever you guys need to justify buffing my shields shield doesn't need a large buff, all it need is dmg threshold and shield plating adds both shield and armor and energized shield plating the shield equivalent of reactive plates caldari with a buff to delay and recharge [EDIT] I frgt to mention a shield booster for heavies
Radiant Pancake3 Destinys Immortals Rise Of Legion. 514	Posted - 2015.07.26 22:29:00 - [36] - Quote Sergeant Snuggles wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: On a totally half unrelated topic... Y.A.M.A.H came up with the idea that Scrambler Rifles shoot Laser Dild0s... It... was a weird conversation... Weird for who? I thought this was common knowledge. You see, dildos are the future. Not to some... we must teach them... Hopes up 4 Logi vehicles Join Logi Heaven! Chat: "Triage Ward" Min Loyalist
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.26 23:13:00 - [37] - Quote Shields barely have less hp if you look at actual equivalent fits. The only problem with shield tanking is that the increased regen potential isn't enough to offset the fact you don't regen through damage and have a bit less hp than armour. Energisers / rechargers should be buffed again. Without the charged shot scramber rifles do less dps to armour than an smg, I did the maths. Please can people stop claiming they destroy armour. And forget about modded controllers. It rare to come across someone using one, and you can't even use a charged shot with a modded controller. Regarding the charged shot, yes it's powerful when combined with an Amarr assault. But please can we not mess up something in this game that takes a bit of skill. And yes, i'm not saying a scrambler charged shot is super difficult to use, but there's more to it than any other rifle. Even with an Amarr assault, the charge shot severely limits your damage output before overheat and completely relies on you connecting that shot and punishes you for missing. Plus there is the danger of overheat, causing damage and more importantly the stun effect. When a weapon is truly OP everyone flocks to use it, as they have with every OP item in the history of Dust. The tactical scrambler rifle isn't even in the top 10 used rifles according to the market data. Even if it was more effective than any other rife, scrambler rifles have by far the highest fitting cost of any rifle. Being slightly more effective would not be a problem. If it truly does need nerfing again, I would suggest nerfing the hipfire dispersion again. Better dispersion is the main thing that the scrambler has over the tac AR. For a long ranged weapon the combo of charged shot plus good hipfire does make the scrambler a beast at short range. Though I will argue that currently the scrambler rifle does lack somewhat in long ranged engagements, even though it looks good on paper. I believe this is because the longer TTK in ranged engagements makes the overheat a real problem. Whereas a rail rifle can just keep firing slugs down range.
Sergeant Snuggles INFAM0US 175	Posted - 2015.07.27 01:42:00 - [38] - Quote Radiant Pancake3 wrote: Sergeant Snuggles wrote: Radiant Pancake3 wrote: On a totally half unrelated topic... Y.A.M.A.H came up with the idea that Scrambler Rifles shoot Laser Dild0s... It... was a weird conversation... Weird for who? I thought this was common knowledge. You see, dildos are the future. Not to some... we must teach them... I liked this post specifically so you wouldn't have 514 likes anymore In a world without ISK, we might have been heroes.
Darken-Sol Darken's Forge and Trade 2	Posted - 2015.07.27 17:54:00 - [39] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: The reason scramblers feel OP is because i use two Darths on my Stormraider, a Complex damage mod, Prof V, and level 3 warbarge damage. Your little scout bodies never had a chance. thats just a waste.... Everyone says that. What would you give for a SCR that never overheats? Crush them
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 933	Posted - 2015.07.27 17:57:00 - [40] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Unless you brick tank, you cant survive a scrambler, shields or no. If you brick tank, you are too slow to take advantage of the scramblers drawback (assuming you live long enough to see overheat make someone stop firing, and assuming for some reason he doesnt just switch to sidearm or duck behind cover). Just face it the weapon is insanely OP in the hands of an Amarr Assault and still kinda OP in the hands of anyone else.

Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 279	Posted - 2015.07.27 17:59:00 - [41] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Unless you brick tank, you cant survive a scrambler, shields or no. If you brick tank, you are too slow to take advantage of the scramblers drawback (assuming you live long enough to see overheat make someone stop firing, and assuming for some reason he doesnt just switch to sidearm or duck behind cover). Just face it the weapon is insanely OP in the hands of an Amarr Assault and still kinda OP in the hands of anyone else. Yep.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 318	Posted - 2015.07.27 18:07:00 - [42] - Quote Just make the weapon overgeat after charge shot like the ion pistol its charge plus volley afterward that issue ascr has loses proficiency after about 60 but its assault variant its mean to be better at close quaters so even as a cal this is fine but refular one with its range plus charge shot and volleys is to much coupled with its fire rate being same as its assat variant one or the other needs to go FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
jace silencerww MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 185	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:21:00 - [43] - Quote think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:27:00 - [44] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol Man you must be like a God, I've been using it since 1.7 and I still overheat... Teach me your ways AmarrFTW "The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:29:00 - [45] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol How about you compare it to another tactical rifle instead of a full auto. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies 138	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:37:00 - [46] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Let me tread on this thread. FW meta has shifted in favor of Cal and Amarr, yes ? We all know it used to be the other way around. As Min and Gal were favored outcomes, we stomped our way easily into those APEX suits. But now we all want the suits we didnt have. Cal and Amarr... So whats being used on the field? Scrams and shields. Its called counter play. Gal Assault CK0, Duvolle OG AR, Boundless Breach SMG, Core Nade ****. Amarr done... Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 936	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:37:00 - [47] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol N-no its not OP, its TACTICAL AND IT OVERHEATS, that means its ok that it does 100 more dps against armor than an actual anti-armor weapon! Please lets not discuss the abysmal kick on the rail rifle, how useless it is in CQC, and how ** the weapon jumping around even before kick becomes a factor makes it for hitting targets at long range, all these things that make the rail rifle even worse in comparison than raw DPS comparison make it look, because Im a scrambler apologist and want to keep abusing the ** out of my OP weapon!
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 936	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:39:00 - [48] - Quote NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Let me tread on this thread. FW meta has shifted in favor of Cal and Amarr, yes ? We all know it used to be the other way around. As Min and Gal were favored outcomes, we stomped our way easily into those APEX suits. But now we all want the suits we didnt have. Cal and Amarr... So whats being used on the field? Scrams and shields. Its called counter play. Gal Assault CK0, Duvolle OG AR, Boundless Breach SMG, Core Nade ****. Amarr done... FW meta is 99% about the organization, 1% about the gear used. Even so, assuming gear matters, personally when I fight for Caldari the only actual caldari suit I use is the scout. Much more often Im in the minmatar assault running a speed fit, or running amarr assault.
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Velociraptors With Violent Tendencies 138	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:49:00 - [49] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Let me tread on this thread. FW meta has shifted in favor of Cal and Amarr, yes ? We all know it used to be the other way around. As Min and Gal were favored outcomes, we stomped our way easily into those APEX suits. But now we all want the suits we didnt have. Cal and Amarr... So whats being used on the field? Scrams and shields. Its called counter play. Gal Assault CK0, Duvolle OG AR, Boundless Breach SMG, Core Nade ****. Amarr done... FW meta is 99% about the organization, 1% about the gear used. Even so, assuming gear matters, personally when I fight for Caldari the only actual caldari suit I use is the scout. Much more often Im in the minmatar assault running a speed fit, or running amarr assault. I think you missed the forest for the trees. Let me simplify . If Cal and Amarr are mostly being won, what is that LP being spent on? Amarr and Cal APEX? Which = scrams and shield, and other crap irrelevant to my point. FW meta changed to favorr Cal suits and weapons as well as Amarr suits and weapons. Alt of INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:54:00 - [50] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol This is what I dislike about the argument that the ScR is over powered.....that those who argue its over performance compare two very different rifle types. Firstly know that the ScR fits squarely into the tactical rifle line and if you look at its statistics they are very well balanced against that of the Tactical AR with the same RoF, slightly more DPS vs Shields due to its profile modifiers, and a little over 100 DPS less than the Tactical AR against armored targets. What this says to me is that with the rifle lines unfinished what we have rather than one single weapon being over powered is a lack of parity as within almost all of the rifle variations the weapons are well balanced against one another, however arguably are no well balanced against other rifle variations. Also the assertion that the ScR should be an absolutely abysmal weapon in dealing with armor is a statement I would dispute. Sure it should have some loss of DPS against armour but never enough to render the weapon useless against armored targets. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.

Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 937	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:57:00 - [51] - Quote NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Let me tread on this thread. FW meta has shifted in favor of Cal and Amarr, yes ? We all know it used to be the other way around. As Min and Gal were favored outcomes, we stomped our way easily into those APEX suits. But now we all want the suits we didnt have. Cal and Amarr... So whats being used on the field? Scrams and shields. Its called counter play. Gal Assault CK0, Duvolle OG AR, Boundless Breach SMG, Core Nade ****. Amarr done... FW meta is 99% about the organization, 1% about the gear used. Even so, assuming gear matters, personally when I fight for Caldari the only actual caldari suit I use is the scout. Much more often Im in the minmatar assault running a speed fit, or running amarr assault. I think you missed the forest for the trees. Let me simplify . If Cal and Amarr are mostly being won, what is that LP being spent on? Amarr and Cal APEX? Which = scrams and shield, and other crap irrelevant to my point. FW meta changed to favorr Cal suits and weapons as well as Amarr suits and weapons. You mean favor the use of Cal suits and weapons and Amarr suits and weapons? I might agree with you then.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 937	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:00:00 - [52] - Quote True Adamance wrote: This is what I dislike about the argument that the ScR is over powered.....that those who argue its over performance compare two very different rifle types. Firstly know that the ScR fits squarely into the tactical rifle line and if you look at its statistics they are very well balanced against that of the Tactical AR with the same RoF, slightly more DPS vs Shields due to its profile modifiers, and a little over 100 DPS less than the Tactical AR against armored targets. What this says to me is that with the rifle lines unfinished what we have rather than one single weapon being over powered is a lack of parity as within almost all of the rifle variations the weapons are well balanced against one another, however arguably are no well balanced against other rifle variations. Also the assertion that the ScR should be an absolutely abysmal weapon in dealing with armor is a statement I would dispute. Sure it should have some loss of DPS against armour but never enough to render the weapon useless against armored targets. Of course this post tacitly assumes that the tactical AR is balanced too, which may not be the case. We just dont see it used because the scrambler outclasses it in almost every way. But I would love to have a tac CR or tac RR, just to get armor users on board with what shield users have known for a long time now: tactical rifles are absurdly OP. I agree with you however that scrambler shouldnt be bad against armor, every weapon should be basically functional against everything else, the damage profiles should just make things marginally better (this is part of the reason I think the scrambler damage profile should be tightened up a bit, to make it easier to balance)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:11:00 - [53] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: This is what I dislike about the argument that the ScR is over powered.....that those who argue its over performance compare two very different rifle types. Firstly know that the ScR fits squarely into the tactical rifle line and if you look at its statistics they are very well balanced against that of the Tactical AR with the same RoF, slightly more DPS vs Shields due to its profile modifiers, and a little over 100 DPS less than the Tactical AR against armored targets. What this says to me is that with the rifle lines unfinished what we have rather than one single weapon being over powered is a lack of parity as within almost all of the rifle variations the weapons are well balanced against one another, however arguably are no well balanced against other rifle variations. Also the assertion that the ScR should be an absolutely abysmal weapon in dealing with armor is a statement I would dispute. Sure it should have some loss of DPS against armour but never enough to render the weapon useless against armored targets. Of course this post tacitly assumes that the tactical AR is balanced too, which may not be the case. We just dont see it used because the scrambler outclasses it in almost every way. But I would love to have a tac CR or tac RR, just to get armor users on board with what shield users have known for a long time now: tactical rifles are absurdly OP. I agree with you however that scrambler shouldnt be bad against armor, every weapon should be basically functional against everything else, the damage profiles should just make things marginally better (this is part of the reason I think the scrambler damage profile should be tightened up a bit, to make it easier to balance) Indeed. I've never said that either were balanced. Both require changes of sort made to bring them more into line. My original suggestion was the one championed in this thread that I put to Kage long ago was the concept that a delay after the changed shot result in a short ion pistol like cool down. Now I prefer mechanical changes to balancing the tactical rifles as opposed to large percentage nerfs. Heat, cool downs, etc. That being said I feel it important to remind people the line rifles are not at a stage of parity and that within their variations they are reasonably well balanced in terms of DPS against one another and that attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 937	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:20:00 - [54] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: This is what I dislike about the argument that the ScR is over powered.....that those who argue its over performance compare two very different rifle types. Firstly know that the ScR fits squarely into the tactical rifle line and if you look at its statistics they are very well balanced against that of the Tactical AR with the same RoF, slightly more DPS vs Shields due to its profile modifiers, and a little over 100 DPS less than the Tactical AR against armored targets. What this says to me is that with the rifle lines unfinished what we have rather than one single weapon being over powered is a lack of parity as within almost all of the rifle variations the weapons are well balanced against one another, however arguably are no well balanced against other rifle variations. Also the assertion that the ScR should be an absolutely abysmal weapon in dealing with armor is a statement I would dispute. Sure it should have some loss of DPS against armour but never enough to render the weapon useless against armored targets. Of course this post tacitly assumes that the tactical AR is balanced too, which may not be the case. We just dont see it used because the scrambler outclasses it in almost every way. But I would love to have a tac CR or tac RR, just to get armor users on board with what shield users have known for a long time now: tactical rifles are absurdly OP. I agree with you however that scrambler shouldnt be bad against armor, every weapon should be basically functional against everything else, the damage profiles should just make things marginally better (this is part of the reason I think the scrambler damage profile should be tightened up a bit, to make it easier to balance) Indeed. I've never said that either were balanced. Both require changes of sort made to bring them more into line. My original suggestion was the one championed in this thread that I put to Kage long ago was the concept that a delay after the changed shot result in a short ion pistol like cool down. Now I prefer mechanical changes to balancing the tactical rifles as opposed to large percentage nerfs. Heat, cool downs, etc. That being said I feel it important to remind people the line rifles are not at a stage of parity and that within their variations they are reasonably well balanced in terms of DPS against one another and that attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals. Agree with everything except the "attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals". In my opinion it doesnt matter what goals they are trying to achieve, since at the end of the day, the only goal that matters is murdering red people. If one line of rifles is globally better at murdering red people than other lines and there are no mitigating factors or drawbacks, then something is wrong.
jace silencerww MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH 185	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:34:00 - [55] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: jace silencerww wrote: think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol How about you compare it to another tactical rifle instead of a full auto. ok sure which one? the tact ar?
Ice Royal Glantix 0.P. 228	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:34:00 - [56] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Half of the problem also lies with the amarr assault. At rank five it simply negates the major balancing factor of the scram. Conversely, using the scram without the ak is just a frustrating experience. So, we change the operational skill to heat build up reduction, say three percent per level, make the assault suit skill a reduction to seize duration and damage, and then make charge shots overheat by default. Fixed, fair, more accessable to heathens. shudders Have a like good sir; you deserve it. This is actually the best idea I've seen so far regarding the whole Scrambler Rifle/Amarr Assault issue, in my opinion. "Solitude is not a burden; it is a gift, for independence allows us to realize our own potential." Glantix / Ice
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:35:00 - [57] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: jace silencerww wrote: think the ScR is not OP amarr users. lets look at the Scr vs Rail Rifle. both have a 75 meters optimal range. basic Scr dps vs armor - 520 basic RR dps vs armor - 457.35 (that is with max proficiency for the RR) lets try the adv ones adv Scr dps vs armor- 546 avd RR dps vs armor- 480.22 ( max proficiency with the RR) ok what about proto ones. again same optimal range of 75 meters. proto Scr dps vs armor - 572 proto RR dps vs armor - 503.8 (again max proficiency for the RR) ok lets try officer ones Officer Scr dps vs armor- 629.2 ( LOL OP MUCH) Officer RR dps vs armor- 553.39 (max prof with the RR) LOL look at that the Scr wins even almost has the same effective range. Scr is 96 vs Rail rifle is 100. so an officer rail rifle does 7.39 more dps against armor than an ADV scrambler rifle. so CCP is the Scr OP or not? don't use the overheat stuff saying it is balanced. I killed a full proto amarr sent. (full ehp) with an amarr frontline fit at 40 meters and no skills into the Scr. yes it took over one clip (as it should with any basic weapon) but I did not overheat. lol How about you compare it to another tactical rifle instead of a full auto. ok sure which one? the tact ar? It's the only other TAC besides the ScR "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2015.07.27 21:14:00 - [58] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: This is what I dislike about the argument that the ScR is over powered.....that those who argue its over performance compare two very different rifle types. Firstly know that the ScR fits squarely into the tactical rifle line and if you look at its statistics they are very well balanced against that of the Tactical AR with the same RoF, slightly more DPS vs Shields due to its profile modifiers, and a little over 100 DPS less than the Tactical AR against armored targets. What this says to me is that with the rifle lines unfinished what we have rather than one single weapon being over powered is a lack of parity as within almost all of the rifle variations the weapons are well balanced against one another, however arguably are no well balanced against other rifle variations. Also the assertion that the ScR should be an absolutely abysmal weapon in dealing with armor is a statement I would dispute. Sure it should have some loss of DPS against armour but never enough to render the weapon useless against armored targets. Of course this post tacitly assumes that the tactical AR is balanced too, which may not be the case. We just dont see it used because the scrambler outclasses it in almost every way. But I would love to have a tac CR or tac RR, just to get armor users on board with what shield users have known for a long time now: tactical rifles are absurdly OP. I agree with you however that scrambler shouldnt be bad against armor, every weapon should be basically functional against everything else, the damage profiles should just make things marginally better (this is part of the reason I think the scrambler damage profile should be tightened up a bit, to make it easier to balance) Indeed. I've never said that either were balanced. Both require changes of sort made to bring them more into line. My original suggestion was the one championed in this thread that I put to Kage long ago was the concept that a delay after the changed shot result in a short ion pistol like cool down. Now I prefer mechanical changes to balancing the tactical rifles as opposed to large percentage nerfs. Heat, cool downs, etc. That being said I feel it important to remind people the line rifles are not at a stage of parity and that within their variations they are reasonably well balanced in terms of DPS against one another and that attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals. Agree with everything except the "attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals". In my opinion it doesnt matter what goals they are trying to achieve, since at the end of the day, the only goal that matters is murdering red people. If one line of rifles is globally better at murdering red people than other lines and there are no mitigating factors or drawbacks, then something is wrong. Globally better is a very broad statement that really fails to account for the specific attributes of each of the variations valuable statistics. RoF, Magazine Size, Effective and Optimal Ranges..... and the fact is they attributes DO matter when speaking about the rifle variations. I'm convinced the ScR can be over performing but I am not convinced that it is the vastly superior option over all other rifles. The question is what is it over performing compared to? And if someone were to say Rail Rifles I'd call them damn liars. Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 833	Posted - 2015.07.27 22:40:00 - [59] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? I don't know who you think we are. Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) No.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 939	Posted - 2015.07.27 23:52:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: This is what I dislike about the argument that the ScR is over powered.....that those who argue its over performance compare two very different rifle types. Firstly know that the ScR fits squarely into the tactical rifle line and if you look at its statistics they are very well balanced against that of the Tactical AR with the same RoF, slightly more DPS vs Shields due to its profile modifiers, and a little over 100 DPS less than the Tactical AR against armored targets. What this says to me is that with the rifle lines unfinished what we have rather than one single weapon being over powered is a lack of parity as within almost all of the rifle variations the weapons are well balanced against one another, however arguably are no well balanced against other rifle variations. Also the assertion that the ScR should be an absolutely abysmal weapon in dealing with armor is a statement I would dispute. Sure it should have some loss of DPS against armour but never enough to render the weapon useless against armored targets. Of course this post tacitly assumes that the tactical AR is balanced too, which may not be the case. We just dont see it used because the scrambler outclasses it in almost every way. But I would love to have a tac CR or tac RR, just to get armor users on board with what shield users have known for a long time now: tactical rifles are absurdly OP. I agree with you however that scrambler shouldnt be bad against armor, every weapon should be basically functional against everything else, the damage profiles should just make things marginally better (this is part of the reason I think the scrambler damage profile should be tightened up a bit, to make it easier to balance) Indeed. I've never said that either were balanced. Both require changes of sort made to bring them more into line. My original suggestion was the one championed in this thread that I put to Kage long ago was the concept that a delay after the changed shot result in a short ion pistol like cool down. Now I prefer mechanical changes to balancing the tactical rifles as opposed to large percentage nerfs. Heat, cool downs, etc. That being said I feel it important to remind people the line rifles are not at a stage of parity and that within their variations they are reasonably well balanced in terms of DPS against one another and that attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals. Agree with everything except the "attempting to compare weapons across variational line is rather pointless given the rifle types are trying to achieve two very different goals". In my opinion it doesnt matter what goals they are trying to achieve, since at the end of the day, the only goal that matters is murdering red people. If one line of rifles is globally better at murdering red people than other lines and there are no mitigating factors or drawbacks, then something is wrong. Globally better is a very broad statement that really fails to account for the specific attributes of each of the variations valuable statistics. RoF, Magazine Size, Effective and Optimal Ranges..... and the fact is they attributes DO matter when speaking about the rifle variations. I'm convinced the ScR can be over performing but I am not convinced that it is the vastly superior option over all other rifles. The question is what is it over performing compared to? And if someone were to say Rail Rifles I'd call them damn liars. Well you can start calling me a liar. The rail rifle is worse in every way aside from sheer range, and the range where it starts winning out over the scrambler rifle is so far out that both weapons are no longer capable of realistically killing anything.

Ghosts Chance Intara Direct Action Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.28 03:20:00 - [61] - Quote lol at the scrambler apologists forgetting that armor mods give an effective HP ratio of 2 to 1 against shields... besically to get effective dropsuit HP in this case you basically DOUBLE the DPS of the scrambler to get its %of HP DPS rahter than its hitpoint DPS, making it twice as powerful in compairison. this actually applies to any weapon against shields meaning EVERY weapon is OP against shields as its effectivee DPS is more than double what its effective DPS is against armor. basically its a weighted calculation where shield HP and armor HP arnt concidered equal in terms of dps calculations and instead armor HP counts for 2x the value of shield HP (the actuall number is slightly above im just to lazy to make a spreadsheet right now) Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind" I am Chances Ghost
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.07.28 06:29:00 - [62] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Really?.... Come on boss?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 1	Posted - 2015.07.28 06:30:00 - [63] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: lol at the scrambler apologists forgetting that armor mods give an effective HP ratio of 2 to 1 against shields... besically to get effective dropsuit HP in this case you basically DOUBLE the DPS of the scrambler to get its %of HP DPS rahter than its hitpoint DPS, making it twice as powerful in compairison. this actually applies to any weapon against shields meaning EVERY weapon is OP against shields as its effectivee DPS is more than double what its effective DPS is against armor. basically its a weighted calculation where shield HP and armor HP arnt concidered equal in terms of dps calculations and instead armor HP counts for 2x the value of shield HP (the actuall number is slightly above im just to lazy to make a spreadsheet right now) Yeah, stack those armor mods, and let me know how bad your kd suffers.... and if it stops the scrambler? "Anybody order chaos?"
Protected Void Nos Nothi 437	Posted - 2015.07.28 06:58:00 - [64] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Its because shield modules are roughly equal to HALF the HP values of armor modules point for point, this combined with the scramblers massive damage profile granting it about 900dps against shields (with modded controller, human input is still an insane 600or so dps) since shields are roughly worth half of armor HP for HP you can pretty much just double the DPS of every weapon against shields to calculate just how effective shields are in compairison to armor leaving sometimes HUGE gaps in weapon efficiancies from shields to armor. this makes shields ALWAYS feel weak in compairison to armor because you simply get 2x the amount of armor than you do shields making it feel as though every weapon in the game is 2x effective against shields then armor. its not that the scrambler is OP, is that shields just dont provide nearly enough HP to balance out the massive HP advantage that armor currently has. now can we stop with the nerf scrambler threads please? and instead replace them with "buff shields" threads? Unless you brick tank, you cant survive a scrambler, shields or no. If you brick tank, you are too slow to take advantage of the scramblers drawback (assuming you live long enough to see overheat make someone stop firing, and assuming for some reason he doesnt just switch to sidearm or duck behind cover). Just face it the weapon is insanely OP in the hands of an Amarr Assault and still kinda OP in the hands of anyone else. Oh, please. I run scout with no HP modules, and I get killed no more by ScRs than by other weapons. It's just a question of using cover and choosing your engagements wisely.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.07.28 09:16:00 - [65] - Quote If I had this game on PC right now with full working KB/M support with no input lag and full sensitivity..... I dont think I would use any other rifle other than the scrambler. High damage, charge ability, fairly fast reload, the general feel of a DMR in other games but still has a good enough rate of fire to be use effectivly in close quarters too. The only reason I dont use it more is because I find rifles hard to aim with KB/M in dust. No doubt pro controller users have long overcome any such obstacle. Like the OP said - We have one of the highest DPS rifles - it has a 15% shield dmg bonus with proficiency, add to that the +20% shield damage from lasers and then add on top the extra % from headshots. Shields with there less overall hit points and damage holes in their frail shield defenses = bye bye. An often overlooked aspect is how fast Laser Rifles melt shields too. Get the laser up to temp and watch that thing scorch everything, let alone shields. Its just that weapon requires better positioning and more skill with the aiming and timing so not as many people use it. Overall - Shields need looking at. Or better yet can we get resistance mods? I could slap an Anti-EM shield mod in straight away. "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa


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AmarrFTW

"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "

AmarrFTW

"The Hero got his feelings hurt for 9 hp... "