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Jack the Rlpper
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
No Context
223
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Posted - 2015.07.10 21:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Between yesterday and today Ive lost 15mil isk and 2 skins. 15 Mil to Ali lol99 and 2 skins to a David L33 who is working wth whiteguy pasty white.
n++pâçGòÉS+Ç +50 n++pâçGòÉS+Ç +60
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DeadlyAztec11
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
8
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 21:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Get reliable third person negotiators.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Vitharr Foebane
2
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Posted - 2015.07.10 21:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
if i were you id only do business with ppl from well known corps
Amarr Omnisoldier: Assault, Commando, Logistics, Scout, Sentinel at V
My faith is in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
560
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 21:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Keep spendin' most our lives livin' in the mercsta's paradise...
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
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Vlad Rostok
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
169
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Posted - 2015.07.10 21:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. |
Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2015.07.10 21:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Didn't realise they'd turned on full player trading yet. |
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Veg Hegirin
DUST University
Ivy League
78
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rekt |
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
i have a serpent scout i can sell you on the cheap just to make up for those losses of yours
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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IR Scifi
Ready to Play
185
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw.
Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. |
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Mrgugernaut
The Naughty Ninjas
12
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
"welcome to new Eden "
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Vlad Rostok
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
170
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas.
I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution.
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas.
I think you should consider looking up the word theft, because I don't think it means what you think it means. If an agreement to trade was made and they didn't fulfill their end of the trade then that's theft. It's pretty much a textbook definition of theft. If you walk into a shop and agree to pay money for an item, they hand you a bag with the stuff and ask for your money, what do you think would happen if you just walked out of the shop as you'd been handed the item? I'll put money on it you'd be arrested and charged for theft.
I do agree with you on not pretending that it's something it's not, but you're trying to pretend it wasn't theft when by any definition it was. |
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vlad Rostok wrote:IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution.
thats actually fraud not theft from a legal standpoint.
fraud is a violation of a lgeal contract or agreement. any sales could as a legal agreement. theft however is the change of property without consent or legal agreement.
akafraud = scamming
it is YOU who do not understand the difference between froud and theft good sir
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution. thats actually fraud not theft aka scamming
No, it's theft. Fraud is a specific form of theft. Scamming is also theft, but in Eve it's specifically allowed, I've not seen such an exemption in any of the Dust Terms of Use allowing it though. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
24
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Let's be honest here.
It doesn't take any intelligence to scam in DUST. It just takes being a ****.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
Gallente Guide
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution. thats actually fraud not theft from a legal standpoint. fraud is a violation of a lgeal contract or agreement. any sales could as a legal agreement. theft however is the change of property without consent or legal agreement. akafraud = scamming it is YOU who do not understand the difference between froud and theft good sir
No, it is you who don't understand the difference. Fraud is using any deliberate deception to achieve unfair/unlawful gain. Which is strangely almost the exact same definition as theft. Fraud is just applied to specific crimes where an individual victim is harder to identify.
Of course the confusion arises in that fraud can also be used to gain items without a specific value or nebulous legal benefits to which they are not entitled. For example obtaining a driving license or passport not in your name is also considered fraud. However, in this case, goods were taken without payment. The method is irrelevant, it's theft. Though the two are very closely related. |
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution. thats actually fraud not theft aka scamming No, it's theft. Fraud is a specific form of theft. Scamming is also theft, but in Eve it's specifically allowed, I've not seen such an exemption in any of the Dust Terms of Use allowing it though.
i dont see a specific exemption alowinng people to leave their mics oipen with screaming children in the room either but aparently thats alowed....
you show a very clearn misunderstanding of how things work so im done here
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
|
Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
55
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:
No, it's theft. Fraud is a specific form of theft. Scamming is also theft, but in Eve it's specifically allowed, I've not seen such an exemption in any of the Dust Terms of Use allowing it though.
Ghosts Chance wrote:i dont see a specific exemption alowinng people to leave their mics oipen with screaming children in the room either but aparently thats alowed....
you show a very clearn misunderstanding of how things work so im done here
scamming isnt a legal term... scam is the commons of fraud... they are one in the same. fraud and theft are two very different legal definitions.
Congratulations on using reductio ad absurdem like a child because they've been proven wrong. Specific exemptions for that is entirely unnecessary. It's discourteous, not illegal or even morally wrong. Your suggestion implies that they should have a specific exemption for everything that irritates you?
Theft is wrong, and moreover in any other game of its type is not tolerated and so a specific exemption is granted in EvE specifying that it is allowed and so to guard against it.
The misunderstanding is not mine, but yours for thinking that theft is allowed and normal behaviour and should be placed on the same level of behaviour as an open microphone. One hopes you're just trolling.
No, fraud and theft are almost the same legal definition. Fraud IS theft, or more importantly, a specific form of theft. |
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:
Congratulations on using reductio ad absurdem like a child because they've been proven wrong. Specific exemptions for that is entirely unnecessary. It's discourteous, not illegal or even morally wrong. Your suggestion implies that they should have a specific exemption for everything that irritates you?
Theft is wrong, and moreover in any other game of its type is not tolerated and so a specific exemption is granted in EvE specifying that it is allowed and so to guard against it.
The misunderstanding is not mine, but yours for thinking that theft is allowed and normal behaviour and should be placed on the same level of behaviour as an open microphone. One hopes you're just trolling.
No, fraud and theft are almost the same legal definition. Fraud IS theft, or more importantly, a specific form of theft.
*slow clap* congratulations for reading a "forumwarrior" 101 manual aka debate theory
but its actually a relevent example
leaving an open mic on with screaming children in the room while your not activly using said mic is ALSO wrong. but in this instance right and wrong are defined prurely be legal and illegal, and in the world we live in things are legal untill they are expressly deemed illegal though judicial review. (case law being what tends to define these judgements)
so not only did you pull out debate theory 101 you used it incorrectly.
rule 1 of debate theory, dont quote the rules of debate theory as part of your argument, they are mealy tools to show you weaknesses in an agument so you can form a counter argument, not a counter argument unto themselves.
you will learn young padawan
in this case replace judicial review with moderator review and you end up with a judgement of it being legal due to CCP as a companys stance on the subject of non-interfearance. CCP has historically gone out of its way NOT to punish acts liek these in dust in the past and as such its reasonable to assume they will continue to hold that position, meaning its legal untill CCP deems otherrwise rather than being illegal untill CCP deems it legal.
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Victor889
WarRavens
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
281
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why isn't there some sort of defence against this?
Surely it should be - player offers item, player pays for item end of discussion.
If it's ever - player doesn't receive item/funds, there should be an option to recall the transaction and both parties are no worse (or better) off.
Personally, I'm not trading with anyone but my alt until they make it fair. |
Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Krias Thracian wrote:Krias Thracian wrote:
No, it's theft. Fraud is a specific form of theft. Scamming is also theft, but in Eve it's specifically allowed, I've not seen such an exemption in any of the Dust Terms of Use allowing it though.
i dont see a specific exemption alowinng people to leave their mics oipen with screaming children in the room either but aparently thats alowed.... you show a very clearn misunderstanding of how things work so im done here scamming isnt a legal term... scam is the commons of fraud... they are one in the same. fraud and theft are two very different legal definitions. Congratulations on using reductio ad absurdem like a child because they've been proven wrong. Specific exemptions for that is entirely unnecessary. It's discourteous, not illegal or even morally wrong. Your suggestion implies that they should have a specific exemption for everything that irritates you? Theft is wrong, and moreover in any other game of its type is not tolerated and so a specific exemption is granted in EvE specifying that it is allowed and so to guard against it. The misunderstanding is not mine, but yours for thinking that theft is allowed and normal behaviour and should be placed on the same level of behaviour as an open microphone. One hopes you're just trolling. No, fraud and theft are almost the same legal definition. Fraud IS theft, or more importantly, a specific form of theft.
Ghosts Chance wrote:*slow clap* congratulations for reading a "forumwarrior" 101 manual aka debate theory
but its actually a relevent example
leaving an open mic on with screaming children in the room while your not activly using said mic is ALSO wrong. but in this instance right and wrong are defined prurely be legal and illegal, and in the world we live in things are legal untill they are expressly deemed illegal though judicial review. (case law being what tends to define these judgements)
so not only did you pull out debate theory 101 you used it incorrectly.
No, it's not wrong at all. It is likely negligence, or they're busy, your implication is that they are deliberately doing it to irritate you, which would be wrong. Without intent there is no moral argument to be made so the action is negligent, not morally wrong in any way and therefore completely irrelevant and no place in this discussion. As I said, you are comparing an act of negligence with an act that is illegal. That the act takes place in an online setting doesn't change that.
Theft IS illegal. It is defined as such and you have no clue how legality is actually defined. The Judiciary do not define legality. They enforce the law (and in America have the unique power to strike down laws incompatible with the Constitution). The law is defined by the legislative branches of government, who also set the punishment for said laws.
As I said, Theft is illegal. Fraud is also a form of theft and also illegal. As they are both illegal, within the framework of the game there is a specific exemption for EvE that allows it.
I refuse to lower myself to the act of going and actually finding legislation wording for them because you clearly have no actual idea how the law is formed or works. |
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Victor889 wrote:Why isn't there some sort of defence against this?
Surely it should be - player offers item, player pays for item end of discussion.
If it's ever - player doesn't receive item/funds, there should be an option to recall the transaction and both parties are no worse (or better) off.
Personally, I'm not trading with anyone but my alt until they make it fair.
your going to be waiting untill never.
CCP purpposly creates these unfair systems to alow for this unfairness to take place. scamming and theft have NEVER been outlawed in the new eden universe, the only cost of doing it is a hit to your reputation (wich people avoid by using alts, like in real life using an alias)
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
This stems from a direct laziness on CCP Shanghai's part, even in EVE which everyone is so happy to point out when they say "Welcome to New Eden" they don't have blind trading. Both parties see the goods being exchanged and both have to accept before the deal is done. Even contracts in EVE spell out the amount of money offered/requested and show the items being offered.
Acquisition is terrible, matchmaking is terrible, your game is still riddled with bugs, you should feel bad.
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EternalRMG
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
1
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Victor889 wrote:Why isn't there some sort of defence against this?
Surely it should be - player offers item, player pays for item end of discussion.
If it's ever - player doesn't receive item/funds, there should be an option to recall the transaction and both parties are no worse (or better) off.
Personally, I'm not trading with anyone but my alt until they make it fair.
you could use a trusted middle man
BPOs for Sale
Dust Player Since: July 2012
Best Assault Dropship Pilot in the Game
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devjo88
0.P.
77
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Who cares
efforts and courage are not good enough without purpose and direction
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devjo88
0.P.
77
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Who cares
efforts and courage are not good enough without purpose and direction
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Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:
No, it's not wrong at all. It is likely negligence, or they're busy, your implication is that they are deliberately doing it to irritate you, which would be wrong. Without intent there is no moral argument to be made so the action is negligent, not morally wrong in any way and therefore completely irrelevant and no place in this discussion. As I said, you are comparing an act of negligence with an act that is illegal. That the act takes place in an online setting doesn't change that.
Theft IS illegal. It is defined as such and you have no clue how legality is actually defined. The Judiciary do not define legality. They enforce the law (and in America have the unique power to strike down laws incompatible with the Constitution). The law is defined by the legislative branches of government, who also set the punishment for said laws.
As I said, Theft is illegal. Fraud is also a form of theft and also illegal. As they are both illegal, within the framework of the game there is a specific exemption for EvE that allows it.
I refuse to lower myself to the act of going and actually finding legislation wording for them because you clearly have no actual idea how the law is formed or works.
please learn to quote properly....
i think i see the issue here, your confusing moral actions with legal actions. an action can be both immoral AND legal at the same time, as well as being moral and illegal, slavery being the most famous example.
Theft in the real world is illegal, said laws to not extend innto the digial fictional property world of eve however and so without an official CCP ruling on the subject it is legal untill proven otherwise based on the tennant of innocent untill proven guilty.
you find this all the time in many other games, a distant time ago i did RMT in various games by running custom written automation scripts and selling off the profits, not at first theres nothing to prevent this type of behavior, people get away with it and despite its questionable ethics its generally alowed UNTILL the company desides otherwise.
another classic example of this is multiboxing (controlling multiple accounts by passing keystrokes view software or hardware to multiple clients simultaniously)
Some games expressly forbit this behavior for one reason or another, but it actually took quite a while for CCP to come to its own conclusion bouncing back and fourth between alowing it and disalowing it in various forms (now outlawed). people using this method BEFORE said judgement was passed were not punished because they were not YET breaking any rules, however people doing it after were. this sets the precedent that CCPs own policy is to alow things untill they specifically state otherwise. and seeing ass how no negative judgements have ever been placed upon a dust player for theft we can saftly assume that this is certany the case still.
we also live in two different countries and our goverments function slightly differently and so the technicals of it are not worth arguing at this point, but case law is essential in US law for determining the giant grey area when something SHOULDNT be legal but isnt expressly illegal someone drags the case through the courts (varied depending on nation) and a judgement is made one way or another based on previous judgements made or clarifications on exsisting laws. (at least as far as my understanding of that system goes.)
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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TIGER SHARK1501
Savage Bullet
RUST415
273
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Posted - 2015.07.11 02:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jack the Rlpper wrote:Between yesterday and today Ive lost 15mil isk and 2 skins. 15 Mil to Ali lol99 and 2 skins to a David L33 who is working wth whiteguy pasty white.
 |
I-Shayz-I
I----------I
5
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Posted - 2015.07.11 03:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Steps to not get scammed:
1. Isk first, always. Especially for trading single items like skins.
2. If it is anything above 10m, always do multiple trades. Don't just give them 25m first. Make sure they are okay with it and trade half first, and then the other half afterwards.
3. If there is anything you are hesitant about, always ask around if people know that person, add them as a contact and look up his stats, use outside resources to see what corps they are in, etc. Don't trade with people that have weird names as there is a higher likelyhood of it being a throwaway alt.
4. If the trade is a large purchase of 50m (or more than half of your total assests) use a trusted intermediate. Both players trade to the middleman who then gives the items to opposite sides.
5. Never trust anyone.
6. If you can use comms, do it. People that will reveal their voice are most likely to be trusted.
7. Lastly, you could always say that you record every trade that you make. I'm able to because I have a recording device, but if you're able to bluff well it can convince scammers to not deal with you. (this actually worked for me once, as a guy I knew was a scammer eventually cooperated with me when he knew I was recording him)
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
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