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Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
i have a serpent scout i can sell you on the cheap just to make up for those losses of yours
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 22:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vlad Rostok wrote:IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution. thats actually fraud not theft from a legal standpoint.
fraud is a violation of a lgeal contract or agreement. any sales could as a legal agreement. theft however is the change of property without consent or legal agreement.
akafraud = scamming
it is YOU who do not understand the difference between froud and theft good sir
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:IR Scifi wrote:Vlad Rostok wrote:Those aren't scams. It's outright theft. Problem is many of the r-tards in "New Eden" don't know a "scam" from "theft". Do you suppose we should be grateful they aren't out stealing purses from old ladies? Because it's sort of the same behaviour. Evidence of the same character flaw. Did they somehow hack into your account and trade them away when you weren't looking? No? You say you willing selected GIVE item and didn't get what was expected in return? Sorry friend that's not theft. It seriously sucks I agree and CCP should get us a proper trading system asap but let's not go crazy pretending this is something it's not. Next you'll try convincing me that piracy is something other than stealing **** on the high seas. I wouldn't deal with anyone I didn't personally know, especially in the realm of "New Eden" where being a "scammer" is some sort of f*cked up badge of honour. If I offered up something for sale IRL and the buyer didn't pay up upon goods receipt or their cheque bounced, then g*ddamn right it's theft. And deserving of retribution. thats actually fraud not theft aka scamming No, it's theft. Fraud is a specific form of theft. Scamming is also theft, but in Eve it's specifically allowed, I've not seen such an exemption in any of the Dust Terms of Use allowing it though.
i dont see a specific exemption alowinng people to leave their mics oipen with screaming children in the room either but aparently thats alowed....
you show a very clearn misunderstanding of how things work so im done here
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:
Congratulations on using reductio ad absurdem like a child because they've been proven wrong. Specific exemptions for that is entirely unnecessary. It's discourteous, not illegal or even morally wrong. Your suggestion implies that they should have a specific exemption for everything that irritates you?
Theft is wrong, and moreover in any other game of its type is not tolerated and so a specific exemption is granted in EvE specifying that it is allowed and so to guard against it.
The misunderstanding is not mine, but yours for thinking that theft is allowed and normal behaviour and should be placed on the same level of behaviour as an open microphone. One hopes you're just trolling.
No, fraud and theft are almost the same legal definition. Fraud IS theft, or more importantly, a specific form of theft.
*slow clap* congratulations for reading a "forumwarrior" 101 manual aka debate theory
but its actually a relevent example
leaving an open mic on with screaming children in the room while your not activly using said mic is ALSO wrong. but in this instance right and wrong are defined prurely be legal and illegal, and in the world we live in things are legal untill they are expressly deemed illegal though judicial review. (case law being what tends to define these judgements)
so not only did you pull out debate theory 101 you used it incorrectly.
rule 1 of debate theory, dont quote the rules of debate theory as part of your argument, they are mealy tools to show you weaknesses in an agument so you can form a counter argument, not a counter argument unto themselves.
you will learn young padawan
in this case replace judicial review with moderator review and you end up with a judgement of it being legal due to CCP as a companys stance on the subject of non-interfearance. CCP has historically gone out of its way NOT to punish acts liek these in dust in the past and as such its reasonable to assume they will continue to hold that position, meaning its legal untill CCP deems otherrwise rather than being illegal untill CCP deems it legal.
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
|
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.07.10 23:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Victor889 wrote:Why isn't there some sort of defence against this?
Surely it should be - player offers item, player pays for item end of discussion.
If it's ever - player doesn't receive item/funds, there should be an option to recall the transaction and both parties are no worse (or better) off.
Personally, I'm not trading with anyone but my alt until they make it fair. your going to be waiting untill never.
CCP purpposly creates these unfair systems to alow for this unfairness to take place. scamming and theft have NEVER been outlawed in the new eden universe, the only cost of doing it is a hit to your reputation (wich people avoid by using alts, like in real life using an alias)
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
|
Ghosts Chance
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 23:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:
No, it's not wrong at all. It is likely negligence, or they're busy, your implication is that they are deliberately doing it to irritate you, which would be wrong. Without intent there is no moral argument to be made so the action is negligent, not morally wrong in any way and therefore completely irrelevant and no place in this discussion. As I said, you are comparing an act of negligence with an act that is illegal. That the act takes place in an online setting doesn't change that.
Theft IS illegal. It is defined as such and you have no clue how legality is actually defined. The Judiciary do not define legality. They enforce the law (and in America have the unique power to strike down laws incompatible with the Constitution). The law is defined by the legislative branches of government, who also set the punishment for said laws.
As I said, Theft is illegal. Fraud is also a form of theft and also illegal. As they are both illegal, within the framework of the game there is a specific exemption for EvE that allows it.
I refuse to lower myself to the act of going and actually finding legislation wording for them because you clearly have no actual idea how the law is formed or works.
please learn to quote properly....
i think i see the issue here, your confusing moral actions with legal actions. an action can be both immoral AND legal at the same time, as well as being moral and illegal, slavery being the most famous example.
Theft in the real world is illegal, said laws to not extend innto the digial fictional property world of eve however and so without an official CCP ruling on the subject it is legal untill proven otherwise based on the tennant of innocent untill proven guilty.
you find this all the time in many other games, a distant time ago i did RMT in various games by running custom written automation scripts and selling off the profits, not at first theres nothing to prevent this type of behavior, people get away with it and despite its questionable ethics its generally alowed UNTILL the company desides otherwise.
another classic example of this is multiboxing (controlling multiple accounts by passing keystrokes view software or hardware to multiple clients simultaniously)
Some games expressly forbit this behavior for one reason or another, but it actually took quite a while for CCP to come to its own conclusion bouncing back and fourth between alowing it and disalowing it in various forms (now outlawed). people using this method BEFORE said judgement was passed were not punished because they were not YET breaking any rules, however people doing it after were. this sets the precedent that CCPs own policy is to alow things untill they specifically state otherwise. and seeing ass how no negative judgements have ever been placed upon a dust player for theft we can saftly assume that this is certany the case still.
we also live in two different countries and our goverments function slightly differently and so the technicals of it are not worth arguing at this point, but case law is essential in US law for determining the giant grey area when something SHOULDNT be legal but isnt expressly illegal someone drags the case through the courts (varied depending on nation) and a judgement is made one way or another based on previous judgements made or clarifications on exsisting laws. (at least as far as my understanding of that system goes.)
Minmatar is Winmatar
Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
I am Chances Ghost
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