DUST Search - Rate of fire module discussion.

Bright Cloud wrote:

Sleepy Shadow wrote:

What would be the point of these? Why do we need them? Why create modules that make balancing yet again more difficult? I think these would just create more problems than they are worth. I donGÇÖt even like damage mods but I do use them religiously.

And if you do these then you also must add range mods and heatsinks. If weGÇÖre going to start taking gun drawbacks away then we must do them all.

We need it as a way to increase the DPS on shield suits. Armor suits have damage mods to increase their DPS. The reason why shield suits+damage mods is a no go is simply the fact that you give up a primary module slot to gain damage, while on armor suits their primary tank stays intact when fitting damage mods into highslots.

The grim alternative from Ratatti would be to move damage mods into lowslots and that would mean armor gets the short stick. So what would you prefer:

A game where you have damage mods in highslots and rate of fire modules in lowslots
A game where you only have damage mods but they would go into lowslots

If you dont support it then Ratatti just simply takes the second option which devalues all of your armor suits.

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Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:22:00 - [1] - Quote as CCP ratatti allready brought up in a different thread we might get rate of fire enhancing modules which should go into lowslots. However to make them viable they have to do more then just increasing the rate of fire due to some weapons have charge up times etc. What im looking at is that this module should reduce the charge up time for all weapons that have it (rail rifles, magsecs, scramblers etc.) and aswell grant the rate of fire bonus. The reasoning behind that is that damage mods dont just simply improve direct hit damage but aswell splash damage for massdrivers etc. So with that in mind i was thinking about a lineup like this: Light weapon rate of fire enhancers Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time Enhanced= +5% rate of fire and -5% charge time Complex= +7% rate of fire and -7% charge time Heavy weapon rate of fire enhancers Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time Enhanced= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time Complex=+5% rate of fire and -5% charge time Sidearm rate of fire enhancers Basic= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time Enhanced= +6% rate of fire and -6% charge time Complex= +8% rate of fire and -8% charge time The values are exact mirrors to damage mods. The thing which is going to make them a bit weaker then damage mods is that they do not increase the damage per clip and only the DPS. So in a gunfight you will run out of ammo much quicker compared to some one who has damage mods fitted. I suggest that dropsuit fits will become invalid if you try to use damage mods and rate of fire enhancers at the same time. Simply to prevent insta melting fits. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood RUST415 782	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:29:00 - [2] - Quote Great, just what we need. Combat Rifles with even faster ROF.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 191	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:31:00 - [3] - Quote I wonder what an HMG would look like with RoF mods stacked.
Hector Carson G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 204	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:38:00 - [4] - Quote Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Tank Boss
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:39:00 - [5] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: I wonder what an HMG would look like with RoF mods stacked. nasty as sh*t WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:41:00 - [6] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Forge gun, Scram rifle, IoP, bolt pistol, PLC would get a 5-8% reduction in their charge times per module. their rate of fire is limited by charge times. Rail Rifle would get 7% to charge time AND rate of fire. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Hector Carson G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 204	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:47:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hector Carson wrote: Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Forge gun, Scram rifle, IoP, bolt pistol, PLC would get a 5-8% reduction in their charge times per module. their rate of fire is limited by charge times. Rail Rifle would get 7% to charge time AND rate of fire. sorry had to edit my post before you said something Tank Boss
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:11:00 - [8] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Plus also taking into account the Plasma Cannon, Forge Gun, Bolt Pistol, and Charge Sniper, the Module would basically cancel itself out for these weapons It would not apply just like the splash damage bonus from damage mods to normal rifles. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 111	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:22:00 - [9] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: I wonder what an HMG would look like with RoF mods stacked. I suspect that they will be very Scary. I propose there should be a penalty per Mod such as a walk speed reduction while firing. - If implemented then perhaps move the ROF to the mid slot and the Damage mods to the Low slot. If you want Hellish damage then you are going to have to sacrifice a good portion of your tank. -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
Hector Carson G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 204	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:24:00 - [10] - Quote ok just to be blunt this module needs more stats, you need to be more specific on what this module affects and what they affect otherwise this module makes no sense. Give the Module an affect for if it is a charge up weapon it gives a shorter charge time EXCLUDING the RR Tank Boss

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:48:00 - [11] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: ok just to be blunt this module needs more stats, you need to be more specific on what this module affects and what they affect otherwise this module makes no sense. Give the Module an affect for if it is a charge up weapon it gives a shorter charge time EXCLUDING the RR the rail rifle is not really usable due to the insane hip fire kick. And as ive sayd it makes your gun shot faster and reduces the charge time for weapons that have a charge up time. Like forgeguns, rail rifles, bolt pistols, ion pistols etc. Its a simple design to approach DPS increase for shield tanked suits. It should aswell be obvious that the faster your gun fires the worse the dispersion and kick gets. But thats just normal for every FPS game. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 6	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:06:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hector Carson wrote: Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Forge gun, Scram rifle, IoP, bolt pistol, PLC would get a 5-8% reduction in their charge times per module. their rate of fire is limited by charge times. Rail Rifle would get 7% to charge time AND rate of fire. Sorry I don't understand does that mean the spool for the arr would then be 0.321 or 0.279? These are guesstimates as I didn't calculate Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro püépü¬püƒpü»tºüpü«pâèpââpâêpéÆsÉ+püäpü+püÖ
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 212	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:33:00 - [13] - Quote Hmm, I like... Would also help low DPS weapon's in general and unbalanced weapon's, but would also make amarr and gallente scary, but less HP overall for them, fine Cloud... You win my +1 When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:34:00 - [14] - Quote I think base charge time is 0.6 for the RR. I have to look at my spreadsheet collection. Now imagine the firepower output of someone with a full rack of damage mods and a full rack of RoF mods. Glass cannon from hell. Puts out a wall of death. Dies if a small child busts ass nearby. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.07.09 21:45:00 - [15] - Quote Befor eI even think about ROF mods, I want to see dispersion/recoil mods. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 212	Posted - 2015.07.09 22:15:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I think base charge time is 0.6 for the RR. I have to look at my spreadsheet collection. Now imagine the firepower output of someone with a full rack of damage mods and a full rack of RoF mods. Glass cannon from hell. Puts out a wall of death. Dies if a small child busts ass nearby. That'd be fun, and the RR's charge is 0.45, 0.30 for the ARR and Magsec, .40 on the BP, and 1.0 on the CSR I believe. However using a google calculator the charge time reduction's are extremely low when putting on even an 8% one, 35% would give the RR, ARR charge time at: 0.2925 or simplistically 0.34. The ARR specifcally however, the charge time would go down to: 0.195 or 0.24, BP would simply be 0.26. CSR: 0.65. To prevent extreme stacking's, the penalties need to be unique to the ROF mod's, 1st one should give full, 2nd one should only give 10%, and 3rd 5% of any further one's would be 2.5 and 1.25 for 5th mod. Just my 10 isk. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 9	Posted - 2015.07.09 22:28:00 - [17] - Quote The only way you're getting 35% is with 5 mods and no penalties. 3 mods at 7% is right around an 18% bonus after stacking penalties, rather than 21%. Past 3 mods the additional units become increasingly useless and at 5 if I recall the benefit of a 7% mod hovers between 1-2%. Heavy mods are even worse. It's almost never feasible to stack more than 3 mods of any given type. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 214	Posted - 2015.07.09 22:44:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The only way you're getting 35% is with 5 mods and no penalties. 3 mods at 7% is right around an 18% bonus after stacking penalties, rather than 21%. Past 3 mods the additional units become increasingly useless and at 5 if I recall the benefit of a 7% mod hovers between 1-2%. Heavy mods are even worse. It's almost never feasible to stack more than 3 mods of any given type. I'm stating 35% at Proto actually. As for ROF, at 6-8-10%'s it's perfect, 10% is more than enough for the slow ROF of the RR. (With 10% prototype) RR: would be 507.694 or 508.9 ROF ARR: would be 660 (Assuming that we don't use handheld unique mod's) Magsec: 717.387 or 718.8 ROF BP: ROF 78.199 or 79.9 Google calc's gotta love it. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 22:45:00 - [19] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: Great, just what we need. Combat Rifles with even faster ROF. If it effects dispersion enough to make hipfire more difficult, it wouldn't be that bad of a problem. Now, is someone is ADS, yeah that would be nasty with the accuracy included but then they are immobile within range of basically every weapon but the HMG. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 22:48:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The only way you're getting 35% is with 5 mods and no penalties. 3 mods at 7% is right around an 18% bonus after stacking penalties, rather than 21%. Past 3 mods the additional units become increasingly useless and at 5 if I recall the benefit of a 7% mod hovers between 1-2%. Heavy mods are even worse. It's almost never feasible to stack more than 3 mods of any given type. After 3 complez it is 18.04, 4 is an extra 2% and 5 is only an extra .74 for a total of 21.27% Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.

Imp Smash Molon Labe. RUST415 872	Posted - 2015.07.10 01:27:00 - [21] - Quote I don't think ROF is the way to go to be honest. Some weapons would get far more benefit than others. People could theoretically gravitate to the weapons that would get the most benefit from RoF, then put on both damage and RoF mods in moderate numbers while maintaining a reasonable amount of tank and/or speed. As I suggested in the other thread, I think an accuracy mod would be better. It's a bit more skill reward based -- and it can't be abused by modded controllers that can reset the resulting dispersion/recoil penalties that would come with an RoF mod.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 214	Posted - 2015.07.10 03:30:00 - [22] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I don't think ROF is the way to go to be honest. Some weapons would get far more benefit than others. People could theoretically gravitate to the weapons that would get the most benefit from RoF, then put on both damage and RoF mods in moderate numbers while maintaining a reasonable amount of tank and/or speed. As I suggested in the other thread, I think an accuracy mod would be better. It's a bit more skill reward based -- and it can't be abused by modded controllers that can reset the resulting dispersion/recoil penalties that would come with an RoF mod. Well it won't effect Tac weapons, so you won't see ScR RoF and DMG mods on an amarr, unless its assault, 10% will only get you so much increased RoF, if you made RoF penalties uniquely give half at 2nd and half at 3rd, WHILE applying EvE penalties, you won't see a huge number of players utilising them. Yes CR gets a RoF, but due to burst intervals, it wouldn't be a major buff, unless again, its assault, AR and BAR, sure maybe, but given my suggestion above, your looking at a little less than 15% RoF increase. at best. I'm on Ps3 sending this through so i won't give stats. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 10:17:00 - [23] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I don't think ROF is the way to go to be honest. Some weapons would get far more benefit than others. People could theoretically gravitate to the weapons that would get the most benefit from RoF, then put on both damage and RoF mods in moderate numbers while maintaining a reasonable amount of tank and/or speed. As I suggested in the other thread, I think an accuracy mod would be better. It's a bit more skill reward based -- and it can't be abused by modded controllers that can reset the resulting dispersion/recoil penalties that would come with an RoF mod. The very same thing can be sayd about damage mods. A scrambler/tac AR gets more damage out of the module then a assault combat rifle. So that logic is flawed. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 396	Posted - 2015.07.10 12:20:00 - [24] - Quote What would be the point of these? Why do we need them? Why create modules that make balancing yet again more difficult? I think these would just create more problems than they are worth. I donGÇÖt even like damage mods but I do use them religiously. And if you do these then you also must add range mods and heatsinks. If weGÇÖre going to start taking gun drawbacks away then we must do them all. =ƒÿ¦
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 11	Posted - 2015.07.10 12:30:00 - [25] - Quote Neither for or against this one just yet, but ... 1. Seems when a gaggle of HMGs are going off nearby, framerate is at increased odds of taking a hit. Especially when in extreme close quarters (i.e. under 10m). Do you think the engine can process/compute faster HMG (or CR) fire without impacting performance? 2. TTK at the shallow end of the HP Pool presently leaves little room for error. Are you concerned about the possibility of creating new viability issues for units operating in the 215-400HP range? 3. Would love to see more module diversity in play and better armor v shield interplay, but couldn't these goals be accomplished more directly (and at lesser risk) by simply making plates less attractive? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:35:00 - [26] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: What would be the point of these? Why do we need them? Why create modules that make balancing yet again more difficult? I think these would just create more problems than they are worth. I donGÇÖt even like damage mods but I do use them religiously. And if you do these then you also must add range mods and heatsinks. If weGÇÖre going to start taking gun drawbacks away then we must do them all. We need it as a way to increase the DPS on shield suits. Armor suits have damage mods to increase their DPS. The reason why shield suits+damage mods is a no go is simply the fact that you give up a primary module slot to gain damage, while on armor suits their primary tank stays intact when fitting damage mods into highslots. The grim alternative from Ratatti would be to move damage mods into lowslots and that would mean armor gets the short stick. So what would you prefer: A game where you have damage mods in highslots and rate of fire modules in lowslots A game where you only have damage mods but they would go into lowslots If you dont support it then Ratatti just simply takes the second option which devalues all of your armor suits. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Clips A'hoy Incorruptibles 271	Posted - 2015.07.10 14:11:00 - [27] - Quote I honestly feel there has to be a balancing factor to these modules. DMG mods have their own problems but they don't increase RoF at all. An increase in RoF in addition to DMG mods could become a pickle quite fast. My idea is to give the modules an increase in RoF (duh!) but to also reduce the DMG by a percentage. Here's why, assuming a 4/4 suit wants to stack two DMG mods and two RoF mods, their damage output would quadruple in an instant without any drawbacks. As a balancing factor I hypothetically propose, +8% RoF, -2% DMG (The same could be done with DMG mods if necessary) The user still gets a nice DPS increase, but not as much as it would be. They can still use two damage mods and not go overboard about it. In my opinion this would be a nice way to implement them without making them overpowered with ridiculous fits. I sometimes fill my bathtub with Jell-o, then I proceed to curl up and pretend I'm a fetus.
DeadlyAztec11 Defenders of the Helghast Dream 8	Posted - 2015.07.10 14:14:00 - [28] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Plus also taking into account the Plasma Cannon, Forge Gun, Bolt Pistol, and Charge Sniper, the Module would basically cancel itself out for these weapons Indeed. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 14:43:00 - [29] - Quote These rof mods could be a problem. Remember how burst HMGs dramatically overpowered repair tools? Remember how everyone started using them because of that fact? Remember how they got drastically nerfed because of the fact they were so OP? I would like the ROF mods to effect equipment. More frequent scans. Faster repairs. Faster hive pulses. Faster cloak recharge. Etc. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 397	Posted - 2015.07.10 15:12:00 - [30] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: What would be the point of these? Why do we need them? Why create modules that make balancing yet again more difficult? I think these would just create more problems than they are worth. I donGÇÖt even like damage mods but I do use them religiously. And if you do these then you also must add range mods and heatsinks. If weGÇÖre going to start taking gun drawbacks away then we must do them all. We need it as a way to increase the DPS on shield suits. Armor suits have damage mods to increase their DPS. The reason why shield suits+damage mods is a no go is simply the fact that you give up a primary module slot to gain damage, while on armor suits their primary tank stays intact when fitting damage mods into highslots. The grim alternative from Ratatti would be to move damage mods into lowslots and that would mean armor gets the short stick. So what would you prefer: A game where you have damage mods in highslots and rate of fire modules in lowslots A game where you only have damage mods but they would go into lowslots If you dont support it then Ratatti just simply takes the second option which devalues all of your armor suits. IGÇÖm not a fan of any module that alters gun performance and that includes damage mods. And CCP should have added middle slots from the start anyway; we wouldnGÇÖt have this problem if they had. All races could add damage mods or other performance altering mods without sacrificing their main tank. And if this came to be, I have no problems sacrificing my reps to get RoF. So I would have three damage mods and two RoF mods which would, again, vastly outdo the Caldari as they cannot sacrifice that many high slots but I can sacrifice two low slots. I can always carry a nifty hive to replenish my armour or swap to reactive plates. These modules would also be very popular for heavies. Their base HP is so high that a Gallente or Amarr slapping RoF mods instead of plates would be very popular, especially if they are leashed by a logi. I guess the Caldari could use damage mods instead but thatGÇÖs a harsh price to pay. I would honestly advocate middle slots rather than new modules that have the chance to really make a mess. Or just get rid of the damage mods. Everyone happy then? =ƒÿ¦



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