DUST Search - Rate of fire module discussion.

Sir Dukey wrote:

Bright Cloud wrote:

as CCP ratatti allready brought up in a different thread we might get rate of fire enhancing modules which should go into lowslots. However to make them viable they have to do more then just increasing the rate of fire due to some weapons have charge up times etc. What im looking at is that this module should reduce the charge up time for all weapons that have it (rail rifles, magsecs, scramblers etc.) and aswell grant the rate of fire bonus. The reasoning behind that is that damage mods dont just simply improve direct hit damage but aswell splash damage for massdrivers etc. So with that in mind i was thinking about a lineup like this:

Light weapon rate of fire enhancers

Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time
Enhanced= +5% rate of fire and -5% charge time
Complex= +7% rate of fire and -7% charge time

Heavy weapon rate of fire enhancers

Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time
Enhanced= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time
Complex=+5% rate of fire and -5% charge time

Sidearm rate of fire enhancers

Basic= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time
Enhanced= +6% rate of fire and -6% charge time
Complex= +8% rate of fire and -8% charge time

The values are exact mirrors to damage mods. The thing which is going to make them a bit weaker then damage mods is that they do not increase the damage per clip and only the DPS. So in a gunfight you will run out of ammo much quicker compared to some one who has damage mods fitted. I suggest that dropsuit fits will become invalid if you try to use damage mods and rate of fire enhancers at the same time. Simply to prevent insta melting fits.

Edit: Made the important part about fitting DPS modules easier to read cause people are ignorant.

You do realize that -7% to charge is absolutely nothing. My sniper would charge in like 3.72 secs instead of 4. WOW!

Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.


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Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 19:22:00 - [1] - Quote as CCP ratatti allready brought up in a different thread we might get rate of fire enhancing modules which should go into lowslots. However to make them viable they have to do more then just increasing the rate of fire due to some weapons have charge up times etc. What im looking at is that this module should reduce the charge up time for all weapons that have it (rail rifles, magsecs, scramblers etc.) and aswell grant the rate of fire bonus. The reasoning behind that is that damage mods dont just simply improve direct hit damage but aswell splash damage for massdrivers etc. So with that in mind i was thinking about a lineup like this: Light weapon rate of fire enhancers Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time Enhanced= +5% rate of fire and -5% charge time Complex= +7% rate of fire and -7% charge time Heavy weapon rate of fire enhancers Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time Enhanced= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time Complex=+5% rate of fire and -5% charge time Sidearm rate of fire enhancers Basic= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time Enhanced= +6% rate of fire and -6% charge time Complex= +8% rate of fire and -8% charge time The values are exact mirrors to damage mods. The thing which is going to make them a bit weaker then damage mods is that they do not increase the damage per clip and only the DPS. So in a gunfight you will run out of ammo much quicker compared to some one who has damage mods fitted. I suggest that dropsuit fits will become invalid if you try to use damage mods and rate of fire enhancers at the same time. Simply to prevent insta melting fits. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:11:00 - [2] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: Most weapons don't even have a charge time so how exactly would the -7% charge time work????? Plus also taking into account the Plasma Cannon, Forge Gun, Bolt Pistol, and Charge Sniper, the Module would basically cancel itself out for these weapons It would not apply just like the splash damage bonus from damage mods to normal rifles. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 20:48:00 - [3] - Quote Hector Carson wrote: ok just to be blunt this module needs more stats, you need to be more specific on what this module affects and what they affect otherwise this module makes no sense. Give the Module an affect for if it is a charge up weapon it gives a shorter charge time EXCLUDING the RR the rail rifle is not really usable due to the insane hip fire kick. And as ive sayd it makes your gun shot faster and reduces the charge time for weapons that have a charge up time. Like forgeguns, rail rifles, bolt pistols, ion pistols etc. Its a simple design to approach DPS increase for shield tanked suits. It should aswell be obvious that the faster your gun fires the worse the dispersion and kick gets. But thats just normal for every FPS game. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 10:17:00 - [4] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I don't think ROF is the way to go to be honest. Some weapons would get far more benefit than others. People could theoretically gravitate to the weapons that would get the most benefit from RoF, then put on both damage and RoF mods in moderate numbers while maintaining a reasonable amount of tank and/or speed. As I suggested in the other thread, I think an accuracy mod would be better. It's a bit more skill reward based -- and it can't be abused by modded controllers that can reset the resulting dispersion/recoil penalties that would come with an RoF mod. The very same thing can be sayd about damage mods. A scrambler/tac AR gets more damage out of the module then a assault combat rifle. So that logic is flawed. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 13:35:00 - [5] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: What would be the point of these? Why do we need them? Why create modules that make balancing yet again more difficult? I think these would just create more problems than they are worth. I donGÇÖt even like damage mods but I do use them religiously. And if you do these then you also must add range mods and heatsinks. If weGÇÖre going to start taking gun drawbacks away then we must do them all. We need it as a way to increase the DPS on shield suits. Armor suits have damage mods to increase their DPS. The reason why shield suits+damage mods is a no go is simply the fact that you give up a primary module slot to gain damage, while on armor suits their primary tank stays intact when fitting damage mods into highslots. The grim alternative from Ratatti would be to move damage mods into lowslots and that would mean armor gets the short stick. So what would you prefer: A game where you have damage mods in highslots and rate of fire modules in lowslots A game where you only have damage mods but they would go into lowslots If you dont support it then Ratatti just simply takes the second option which devalues all of your armor suits. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.10 16:42:00 - [6] - Quote Meee One wrote: These rof mods could be a problem. Remember how burst HMGs dramatically overpowered repair tools? Remember how everyone started using them because of that fact? Remember how they got drastically nerfed because of the fact they were so OP? I would like the ROF mods to effect equipment. More frequent scans. Faster repairs. Faster hive pulses. Faster cloak recharge. Etc. No. We allready have perma scanning gal. logis, reptools are allready borderline OP on minlogis and if you want to have a better cloak regen then use a better cloak. And lol nanohive. This here is about weapons, not equipment. I highly question it that anyone in their right mind would want that you could do perma scans with just 1 scanner. If you want a seperate module that affect equipment usage then make your own idea but do not try to pervert the idea of ROF modules to your liking. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.11 11:06:00 - [7] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: Imp Smash wrote: I don't think ROF is the way to go to be honest. Some weapons would get far more benefit than others. People could theoretically gravitate to the weapons that would get the most benefit from RoF, then put on both damage and RoF mods in moderate numbers while maintaining a reasonable amount of tank and/or speed. As I suggested in the other thread, I think an accuracy mod would be better. It's a bit more skill reward based -- and it can't be abused by modded controllers that can reset the resulting dispersion/recoil penalties that would come with an RoF mod. The very same thing can be sayd about damage mods. A scrambler/tac AR gets more damage out of the module then a assault combat rifle. So that logic is flawed. Er...I don't see how that follows. How is 'that logic flawed" if your assertion is true and scram/Tac AR get more of damage mods than ACRs? And how does that affect modded controllers? Or the self limiting factor of ROF modules where higher fire rates affect accuracy? You aren't making any sense to me -- so you'll have to explain this one. Proto scrambler does 71,5HP damage add a +7% damage mod and you do 76,51HP damage Proto assault combat rifle does 21.83 HP damage add a +7% damage mod and you do 23.36HP damage As you can see the scrambler gets more damage per bullet then the ACR. The damage per clip on the scrambler rifle is significantly greater then that from the ACR. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.11 20:59:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'm on the fence here. I like RoF adjusting mods. I'm on the fence until I know how this stuff is going to work. put module on suit= your gun shots faster by the amount that the module provides. Its not really rocket science. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.13 01:00:00 - [9] - Quote People probs overlook it but my OP has the intend to only allow one kind of DPS enhancing module on it. You have to chose to either have ROF modules or dmage mods, which means you can only stack one kind of module and not both at once which would turn the fit invalid. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:03:00 - [10] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Did I already mention that ROF modules would be somewhat redundant, and would wreck all the careful work devs been doing in the TTK vs HP sector? So no, rof mods aren't really needed. They can be done, but better focus on something else. TTK would not change apart from the fact that shield suits could have similar DPS like armor tanked suits. Its not changing anything except that shields are becoming viable in taking and holding objectives. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.13 17:25:00 - [11] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I am completely against ROF mods. 1. They provide the exact same DPS boost that raw damage mods do. 2. I want everyone to imagine a minassault with stacked damage and ROF mods sitting in the redline with a Thales. Just wonder on that for a minute. Re-read my OP again and dont just post random nonesense. My OP advises CCP to make dropsuit fits invalid that try to use both modules. So you have to make the choice of having ROF or damage mods but not both at once which would make the suit unusable. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 12:06:00 - [12] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I do not like the idea of rate of fire modules. It would unbalance auto and semi auto weapons, and also give an unfair advantage to suits with a large number of module slots, since there would be synergy to using a combination of rate of fire and damage. Re-read my OP it states that using both modules on a suit would make the fit invalid. Geez would people please read the whole thing before splurting nonesnese on my thread? Thanks. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:31:00 - [13] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: as CCP ratatti allready brought up in a different thread we might get rate of fire enhancing modules which should go into lowslots. However to make them viable they have to do more then just increasing the rate of fire due to some weapons have charge up times etc. What im looking at is that this module should reduce the charge up time for all weapons that have it (rail rifles, magsecs, scramblers etc.) and aswell grant the rate of fire bonus. The reasoning behind that is that damage mods dont just simply improve direct hit damage but aswell splash damage for massdrivers etc. So with that in mind i was thinking about a lineup like this: Light weapon rate of fire enhancers Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time Enhanced= +5% rate of fire and -5% charge time Complex= +7% rate of fire and -7% charge time Heavy weapon rate of fire enhancers Basic= +3% rate of fire and -3% charge time Enhanced= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time Complex=+5% rate of fire and -5% charge time Sidearm rate of fire enhancers Basic= +4% rate of fire and -4% charge time Enhanced= +6% rate of fire and -6% charge time Complex= +8% rate of fire and -8% charge time The values are exact mirrors to damage mods. The thing which is going to make them a bit weaker then damage mods is that they do not increase the damage per clip and only the DPS. So in a gunfight you will run out of ammo much quicker compared to some one who has damage mods fitted. I suggest that dropsuit fits will become invalid if you try to use damage mods and rate of fire enhancers at the same time. Simply to prevent insta melting fits. Edit: Made the important part about fitting DPS modules easier to read cause people are ignorant. You do realize that -7% to charge is absolutely nothing. My sniper would charge in like 3.72 secs instead of 4. WOW! Why would you use ROF on a sniper? Snipers are all about high damage and headhsots. On a tactical sniper however this might work wonders. You could aswell use 3 of them and get a significant higher bonus. The value is the same cause it could have the potential to break the forgegun charge time. Just imagine a forgegun with tripple stacked ROF mods and each reduces the time by 35% (as some one suggested). Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.17 01:02:00 - [14] - Quote About the loss of regulators on lowslots by fitting ROF mods: we could eventually speculate about it to merge regulators with shield rechargers and make them a single highslot module. Which in my opinion is more interesting cause you would free up lowslots for more then just ROF mods. It would make more sense and stick to the philosophy of that armor only uses lows and shields should only use highs. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:34:00 - [15] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: I suggest that dropsuit fits will become invalid if you try to use damage mods and rate of fire enhancers at the same time. Simply to prevent insta melting fits. I counter that comment with this: We should have "insta melting fits" because we ourselves will become glass cannons. Very shiny glass cannons as well, since almost everyone will be able to see us. Really, stacking both leaves you with default armor/shield/ewar/biotic values. As soon as you start killing one or two people, the survivors will turn on you and blap you faster than you blap them. Consider they also have some sort of RoF/+Dmg Yes but sniper rifles and forgeguns could become a problem. having a tactical sniper with 3 damage mods and 2 ROF mods on a cal.mando might be a bit too powerfull setup or a min sentinel with the same setup and a forgegun. Or a minmando with a massdriver standing up high and spamming massdrivers like crazy. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:33:00 - [16] - Quote Commander Noctus wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: Yes but sniper rifles and forgeguns could become a problem. having a tactical sniper with 3 damage mods and 2 ROF mods on a cal.mando might be a bit too powerfull setup or a min sentinel with the same setup and a forgegun. Or a minmando with a massdriver standing up high and spamming massdrivers like crazy. Ah, but then wouldn't the issue with those weapons be the RoF boost? The+dmg would be icing on the cake. Even w/o +dmg, the mass driver spam would be ludicrous, especially since they already kill effectively at their base rof. Imagine the standard variant firing as fast as the Assault. Sniper as well. It's already possible to nail someone twice with a Tac Sniper. I could potentially hit them 3 times now-headshots not withstanding-for a kill. grumble now I'm reconsidering RoF mods altogether... Thats why i want that you have to choose to either fit damage or rate of fire mods. Having a rack full with one kind of module is ok but filling both sides with DPS enhancing modules is a no go espacially since this would be bypassing stacking penalty. Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.