DUST Search - Shields are still broken

DeathwindRising wrote:

After some thought, I think that manipulating the shield damage threshold is the cleanest solution.

We can do some pretty creative things without breaking any current shield design mechanics. Here's an example idea: if the threshold is high enough, then the meta changes to low damage per shot weapons using high dps to defeat shields, while high damage per shot / low dps weapons would break the threshold.

And also because of damage falloff, shield would be more effective at range. The trick is finding a number to set for the threshold.

Do we include projectile and explosive damage profiles in choosing a threshold?

Also, the threshold would be for caldari mainly and would be different for each class.

Currently the threshold is set to 6.

EDIT:

we could make the shield damage threshold a dropsuit stat. then add a modifier to shield rechargers and energizers. Make the base threshold something low, like 5 for cal sent for example. then we can increase it by using the rechargers and energizers.

one energizer at lvl 5 skils would give a ~75% increase to the threshold, taking it for 5 to 8.75.

two energizers would give you about 14.4

three energizers was about 22.5

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Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 867	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:05:00 - [1] - Quote I waited to check out the threshold, which isn't doing anything. I've been checking out the new tieracide. I know it's only been a day. Shields still seem terrible. Shields, the silent killer.
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 231	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:13:00 - [2] - Quote They are lol. Caldari needs their Base regen and Base delay numbers fixed. Now it's 5 and 6 six seconds for delay. Make it 3 and 5. Keep hp the same and change Base regen to 40 and shields might make a comeback. Lower hp, higher and faster regen: the way Shields are meant to be. But when we buff Shields we'll nerf armour -.- as always. CCP, KEEP ARMOUR THE SAME WHEN BUFFING SHIELDS, DO NOT TOUCH IT!
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 867	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:22:00 - [3] - Quote I don't really feel as though the regen, or even the "threshold" which sounds like a made up CCP thing. Is the issue. I really think it just needs an hp buff and a pg/cpu reduction Shields, the silent killer.
Apocalyptic Destroyerr Shining Flame Amarr Empire 517	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:23:00 - [4] - Quote I agree. Touching Armor while trying to give a buff to Shields will just destroy everything. (Non- exaggerated) Simply just continue to improve Shields.
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 7	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:26:00 - [5] - Quote I believe a threshold of 15hp, regulator buff, with a slight hp increase to Shield modules will do the trick. And after that REMOVE NATIVE ARMOR REPAIR FROM ALL SUITS. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 205	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:26:00 - [6] - Quote Or reduce shield base regen down to 20 on assaults and 30 on light suits, and give shield's the original ability to constantly regen through damage, that would be a much more balanced fix and if need be make it only so that caldari has this ability and no other race. That's a shield to armor balance for caldari, but alas that's my opinion and since rattati is more than likely never going to see this, we'll get our time Squagga, but it won't be for another 2-3 year's, at the rate this is going at least. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 232	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:31:00 - [7] - Quote Noooooooooo. Its not the amount of HP thats the problem. Its the benefits to Shields that arent being incorporated. 15hp threshold sounds good. Adding a hp buff to Shields wont fix anything. The suit needs to get its hp back fast so that it fits into hit and run suit. Which also means a slight buff to movement speed to further the difference between shield and armour suits. Shield suits are meant to be weak in that region, but instead they recover to full strength faster letting them wesr down their opponent. 500 for an advanced 600/700 for proto is more than enough. It just needs to regen quicker and move slightly faster.
Ace Ravager Horizons' Edge No Context 100	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:32:00 - [8] - Quote I really think that the hp buff is needed since nowadays most peopel are forced into close combat so it could help with survivability. Threshhold is required I know its anoying when I have 0 shields and 40 armor and there is a Gal assault with ARR (Use your own weapons) shooting at my while my shield is trying to regen. My shields get to 100 and im at a rang when basically the weapon is doing one damage and once that bullet hits me I'm waiting FOREVER so my shield can charge. Also fix that depleted delay and recharge it takes forever for regen to start and also increase regen. Gal can regen armor pretty easily and Caldari is kind of their counterpart so it should be better that shields can recharge fast since they are destroyed pretty easily. The MAIN thing we need is a hotfix that nerfs ASCR I shouldn't be taking on bullet and going from 600 shields to 0 and they shouldn't be able to do damage at a range that a RR has to effectiveness at. Come here for some Officer Gear
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 232	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:48:00 - [9] - Quote With the delay numbers at 3 and 5 youll begin regen around 1-2 seconds wirh a complex regulator, thats an Amazing refresh rate and along with a Base 40 hp regen and an energizer youll be upto like 60 a second. Thats a great buff to Shields, add a hp buff onto that itll be Op and itll get nerfed back to worse than we have now.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 867	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:16:00 - [10] - Quote It doesn't need a regen buff. I already have that. It doesn't help Shields, the silent killer.

VAHZZ 3	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:18:00 - [11] - Quote It is sad. I thought RatMan was buffing the shields and they would become the new meta. Guess the Caldari are still the red headed stepchilds. Until Lambs become Lions. GJR Approved
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:18:00 - [12] - Quote For the first time ever, I have skilled into the rail rifle and level 1 cal assault. I pull out the raven bpo, the mlt arr, and stack militia bpo shield mods in the highs and lows, with a compact hive. Its not a bad suit with about 450 shields and the hive to regen armor. Not a great suit, but I'm not a great player and even less so with shields... Id like to see how the changes would go through.. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 232	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:25:00 - [13] - Quote Squagga wrote: It doesn't need a regen buff. I already have that. It doesn't help Its certainly not crucial but it would definitely balance it more against armour. Core hp buff is just not the answer. Hp buff simply makes Caldari have the same hp as gal and Amarr but without the niche bonuses of shield tanking. It addresses the symptom and not the cause sort of thing.
XSoldierSaintX Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:39:00 - [14] - Quote what about stacking the stuff that shortens the shield regen time. it works wonders for me. i almost always manage to get away from stomping sonuva..... the point is it works -_-.
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 233	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:41:00 - [15] - Quote Yes they do, but thats stacking, and theres supposed to be a penalty.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 590	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:42:00 - [16] - Quote I'm supposed to be the enemy of all things Caldari, so I shouldn't even be talking. ButGÇª any room for improvement in your dropsuit DOES need to stay within the lore/racial technology of the dropsuit. Otherwise, there's no fun or racial motivation in choosing one suit over another. Caldari tech is about layering of shield energy and keeping a safe, covered distance from your enemy. Caldari don't explore recycling the energy faster, or restoring it quicker, or temporarily amplifying the shield in short durations. GÇª.Minmatar are reportedly the geniuses for "regen" and re-"energizing" the weakened shielding. GÇª.Amarr are (or will soon be) the masters of pumping POWER into "hardening" shielding in quick durations. Caldari are only interested in layering more shields or reactivating a depleted shield module sooner. For better or for worse, this is what you are stuck with if you love your Cald-design dropsuits. Your challenge is to make it work. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 233	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:44:00 - [17] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: I'm supposed to be the enemy of all things Caldari, so I shouldn't even be talking. ButGÇª any room for improvement in your dropsuit DOES need to stay within the lore/racial technology of the dropsuit. Otherwise, there's no fun or racial motivation in choosing one suit over another. Caldari tech is about layering of shield energy and keeping a safe, covered distance from your enemy. Caldari don't explore recycling the energy faster, or restoring it quicker, or temporarily amplifying the shield in short durations. GÇª.Minmatar are reportedly the geniuses for "regen" and re-"energizing" the weakened shielding. GÇª.Amarr are (or will soon be) the masters of pumping POWER into "hardening" shielding in quick durations. Caldari are only interested in layering more shields or reactivating a depleted shield module sooner. For better or for worse, this is what you are stuck with if you love your Cald-design dropsuits. Your challenge is to make it work. So are the other suits working to the exact racial stereotypes or do they need to change as well?
Henrietta Unknown Corrosive Synergy No Context 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:45:00 - [18] - Quote Improvement of Caldari Base Regen and Shield Delay stats. They are not very impressive right now, especially the Cal Commando, and if I hear it correctly, the Callogi/Calass. And reduced fitting requirements on Complex shield extenders. Seriously, complex armor mods take up less space. Selling Items Store - Player Trading
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 867	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:45:00 - [19] - Quote Kiiran-B wrote: Squagga wrote: It doesn't need a regen buff. I already have that. It doesn't help Its certainly not crucial but it would definitely balance it more against armour. Core hp buff is just not the answer. Hp buff simply makes Caldari have the same hp as gal and Amarr but without the niche bonuses of shield tanking. It addresses the symptom and not the cause sort of thing. And what do you mean it doesn't help? You cant feel a benefit difference between 30 hp/s regen and 50/60/s regen, along with a complex regulator, or two even? I have every shield skillbook maxed out. Trust me. I get get my shields back fast. I genuinely don't believe getting them back any faster will help. The threshold thing is a nice idea, and I don't know what would happen if they raised it. What I do know, is I lose my shields so goddamn fast. I need more shields to go through before I'm left with no shields. Alls I gots is shields! Shields, the silent killer.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 867	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:49:00 - [20] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: I'm supposed to be the enemy of all things Caldari, so I shouldn't even be talking. ButGÇª any room for improvement in your dropsuit DOES need to stay within the lore/racial technology of the dropsuit. Otherwise, there's no fun or racial motivation in choosing one suit over another. Caldari tech is about layering of shield energy and keeping a safe, covered distance from your enemy. Caldari don't explore recycling the energy faster, or restoring it quicker, or temporarily amplifying the shield in short durations. GÇª.Minmatar are reportedly the geniuses for "regen" and re-"energizing" the weakened shielding. GÇª.Amarr are (or will soon be) the masters of pumping POWER into "hardening" shielding in quick durations. Caldari are only interested in layering more shields or reactivating a depleted shield module sooner. For better or for worse, this is what you are stuck with if you love your Cald-design dropsuits. Your challenge is to make it work. I think you're 100% right. Why don't we make this a racial thing. How's abouts Cals gets a bonus to shields? Phenomenal idea! Shields, the silent killer.

BARAGAMOS Kinsho Swords Caldari State 79	Posted - 2015.07.09 02:51:00 - [21] - Quote Honestly, the best thing that can be done for shields right now is fix the Scrambler rifle. Three shot kills on the heaviest EHP suits is not the way it should work. Shortening delay times and raising the threshold only works when you actually survive a volley. Check my other posts for some real interesting numbers. Right now the AScrR is rampant. Every kid and their mom runs it. Notice the kill feed next time you play. No reasonable amount of shield buff can fix the fact that the scrambler family is just way out of line with the rest of the guns and right now way over used because of it.
Kiiran-B Seraphim Initiative. 233	Posted - 2015.07.09 03:09:00 - [22] - Quote BARAGAMOS wrote: Honestly, the best thing that can be done for shields right now is fix the Scrambler rifle. Three shot kills on the heaviest EHP suits is not the way it should work. Shortening delay times and raising the threshold only works when you actually survive a volley. Check my other posts for some real interesting numbers. Right now the AScrR is rampant. Every kid and their mom runs it. Notice the kill feed next time you play. No reasonable amount of shield buff can fix the fact that the scrambler family is just way out of line with the rest of the guns and right now way over used because of it. I agree it is over the top and does need fixed. But Shields have been broken for a long time, before the most recent occurance of the scram being op (yes, theres been many) and after the scram is fixed I think those numbers are a good place to start. As we've already said, Shields are not meant for close quarters brawling, and when the biggest threat to Shields is not as big a threat, adding more hp will just make Shields unbalanced and then what? Queue the next nerf, back to square one. As most people already state, nothing comes close to being complained about other than the scram. With a hp buff, other weapon users will just complain that Shields are too strong. It wont solve anything. And plus, with a higher Base HP regen you can fit another shield extender instead of an energizer; thus giving you more shields.
Squagga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 867	Posted - 2015.07.09 04:23:00 - [23] - Quote ScR are definitely an issue. However, that's not the issue we're discussing. Shields, the silent killer.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 207	Posted - 2015.07.09 05:39:00 - [24] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: I'm supposed to be the enemy of all things Caldari, so I shouldn't even be talking. ButGÇª any room for improvement in your dropsuit DOES need to stay within the lore/racial technology of the dropsuit. Otherwise, there's no fun or racial motivation in choosing one suit over another. Caldari tech is about layering of shield energy and keeping a safe, covered distance from your enemy. Caldari don't explore recycling the energy faster, or restoring it quicker, or temporarily amplifying the shield in short durations. GÇª.Minmatar are reportedly the geniuses for "regen" and re-"energizing" the weakened shielding. GÇª.Amarr are (or will soon be) the masters of pumping POWER into "hardening" shielding in quick durations. Caldari are only interested in layering more shields or reactivating a depleted shield module sooner. For better or for worse, this is what you are stuck with if you love your Cald-design dropsuits. Your challenge is to make it work. Well hey, I'm supposed to be the enemy of all thing's Gallente, but I'm trying to get you and your boy's the AR buff you so unrightfully deserve, so cut us a little slack will you? In regard's to shield's, it's clear, lore doesn't work on an FPS standpoint, EVE and FPS are clearly not going to go hand in hand together, something's work from EVE, others don't work at all. Simply return the constant recharge to Cal suit's and everything will balance itself out, if you also include a recharge nerf, keep delay's the same as they would be the prospect of how fast our shield's recharge in it's constant capabilities. Most suit's don't have to worry about weapon's as they either have the AHP to survive, or the wiggle dance to evade the shot's, shield suit's may have the wiggle as do every other suit does but their SHP get's shredded because the DPS of said weapon's outweigh's shield's abilities pretty heavily, even the CR can chew through shield's in less than 20 seconds, meaning we have to be try hard's just to fight in CCP's map design's. It doesn't matter what the lore say's, it doesn't matter if you think it'd be OP as hell, that's what armor is to us shield player's. AND worst of all, you can use any weapon with damage mod's and that mean's armor fit's can fight at ANY range they want, how well does that translate to the increasing disparity between armor and shield's, armor that only need's low slot's and shield's that need high's, where weapon mod's are placed at. Shield/Cal's MUST to fight at CQC range, even if it isn't lore friendly something need's to be done about shield's. Otherwise your better off deleting everything related to the entire race from the game and that's without exaggeration. Shield's aren't fun, their just a mean's to give armor player's free kill's. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 07:00:00 - [25] - Quote Squagga wrote: It doesn't need a regen buff. I already have that. It doesn't help Flux nades and laser weapons say you will never have enough hp. Ever. That said it's more important to be able to recover quickly. But since they have stacking penalties, you don't need more than two. What we need: our old caldari assault bonus to shield extenders.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 08:28:00 - [26] - Quote After some thought, I think that manipulating the shield damage threshold is the cleanest solution. We can do some pretty creative things without breaking any current shield design mechanics. Here's an example idea: if the threshold is high enough, then the meta changes to low damage per shot weapons using high dps to defeat shields, while high damage per shot / low dps weapons would break the threshold. And also because of damage falloff, shield would be more effective at range. The trick is finding a number to set for the threshold. Do we include projectile and explosive damage profiles in choosing a threshold? Also, the threshold would be for caldari mainly and would be different for each class. Currently the threshold is set to 6. I suggest bumping it up to 10, let things settle, then increase it by 5 until it feels right.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 10:59:00 - [27] - Quote The threshold is pointless. The only things that should be done to improve shield tanking, is to buff standard and advanced regulators, and buff energisers / rechargers.
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 1	Posted - 2015.07.09 11:58:00 - [28] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: After some thought, I think that manipulating the shield damage threshold is the cleanest solution. We can do some pretty creative things without breaking any current shield design mechanics. Here's an example idea: if the threshold is high enough, then the meta changes to low damage per shot weapons using high dps to defeat shields, while high damage per shot / low dps weapons would break the threshold. And also because of damage falloff, shield would be more effective at range. The trick is finding a number to set for the threshold. Do we include projectile and explosive damage profiles in choosing a threshold? Also, the threshold would be for caldari mainly and would be different for each class. Currently the threshold is set to 6. EDIT: we could make the shield damage threshold a dropsuit stat. then add a modifier to shield rechargers and energizers. Make the base threshold something low, like 5 for cal sent for example. then we can increase it by using the rechargers and energizers. one energizer at lvl 5 skils would give a ~75% increase to the threshold, taking it for 5 to 8.75. two energizers would give you about 14.4 three energizers was about 22.5 The threshold needs to be 20, or 50+ per 1 second Closed beta vet. Master troll. No lifer. Master lurker.
DeadlyAztec11 Defenders of the Helghast Dream 8	Posted - 2015.07.09 12:44:00 - [29] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I believe a threshold of 15hp, regulator buff, with a slight hp increase to Shield modules will do the trick. And after that REMOVE NATIVE ARMOR REPAIR FROM ALL SUITS. What will the last change accomplish? It will only damage shield users when they have their shields depleted. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Ydubbs81 RND Negative-Feedback 3	Posted - 2015.07.09 12:47:00 - [30] - Quote The shield weapons are the real issue....plus being able to stack damage mods and keep your main tank. You cant compete with amarr/scr combo if you're a shield tanker. The gun does 20% to shields, plus double or triple damage mods?? To make it fair, we need a ROF or damage mod in the low slots. That way we can compete on a dps level wothout sacrificimg our main tank. Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here



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