DUST Search - Shields are still broken

DeadlyAztec11 wrote:

Zan Azikuchi wrote:

DeadlyAztec11 wrote:

Nocturnal Soul wrote:

I believe a threshold of 15hp, regulator buff, with a slight hp increase to Shield modules will do the trick. And after that REMOVE NATIVE ARMOR REPAIR FROM ALL SUITS.

What will the last change accomplish? It will only damage shield users when they have their shields depleted.

Except that shield user's native repair's are negligible at best, 1.50 is worthless to me and it didn't matter before hand, however on armor user's who stack straight up armor plate's, will maintain their damage done prior, possibly you could remove armor repair's module's, the native repair and make the repair tool the sole mean's for armor to regen, that'd be a particularly nice way to balance armor and shield's, since shield suit's can naturally repair and armor wouldn't be able to.

(Oh how I will love how people make "but lore" excuses for this, but let's face it, if we managed to obtain lasting damage's done to armor, it'd make thing's a lot more balanced.)

Armor would be completely useless and everyone would skill into Caldari IMMEDIATELY.

That is not balanced at all. If you are forced to stay together with someone else just to survive more than one fight, then the game is broken.

There is no situation where your proposition is O.K.

When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.


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Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 205	Posted - 2015.07.09 01:26:00 - [1] - Quote Or reduce shield base regen down to 20 on assaults and 30 on light suits, and give shield's the original ability to constantly regen through damage, that would be a much more balanced fix and if need be make it only so that caldari has this ability and no other race. That's a shield to armor balance for caldari, but alas that's my opinion and since rattati is more than likely never going to see this, we'll get our time Squagga, but it won't be for another 2-3 year's, at the rate this is going at least. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 207	Posted - 2015.07.09 05:39:00 - [2] - Quote CELESTA AUNGM wrote: I'm supposed to be the enemy of all things Caldari, so I shouldn't even be talking. ButGÇª any room for improvement in your dropsuit DOES need to stay within the lore/racial technology of the dropsuit. Otherwise, there's no fun or racial motivation in choosing one suit over another. Caldari tech is about layering of shield energy and keeping a safe, covered distance from your enemy. Caldari don't explore recycling the energy faster, or restoring it quicker, or temporarily amplifying the shield in short durations. GÇª.Minmatar are reportedly the geniuses for "regen" and re-"energizing" the weakened shielding. GÇª.Amarr are (or will soon be) the masters of pumping POWER into "hardening" shielding in quick durations. Caldari are only interested in layering more shields or reactivating a depleted shield module sooner. For better or for worse, this is what you are stuck with if you love your Cald-design dropsuits. Your challenge is to make it work. Well hey, I'm supposed to be the enemy of all thing's Gallente, but I'm trying to get you and your boy's the AR buff you so unrightfully deserve, so cut us a little slack will you? In regard's to shield's, it's clear, lore doesn't work on an FPS standpoint, EVE and FPS are clearly not going to go hand in hand together, something's work from EVE, others don't work at all. Simply return the constant recharge to Cal suit's and everything will balance itself out, if you also include a recharge nerf, keep delay's the same as they would be the prospect of how fast our shield's recharge in it's constant capabilities. Most suit's don't have to worry about weapon's as they either have the AHP to survive, or the wiggle dance to evade the shot's, shield suit's may have the wiggle as do every other suit does but their SHP get's shredded because the DPS of said weapon's outweigh's shield's abilities pretty heavily, even the CR can chew through shield's in less than 20 seconds, meaning we have to be try hard's just to fight in CCP's map design's. It doesn't matter what the lore say's, it doesn't matter if you think it'd be OP as hell, that's what armor is to us shield player's. AND worst of all, you can use any weapon with damage mod's and that mean's armor fit's can fight at ANY range they want, how well does that translate to the increasing disparity between armor and shield's, armor that only need's low slot's and shield's that need high's, where weapon mod's are placed at. Shield/Cal's MUST to fight at CQC range, even if it isn't lore friendly something need's to be done about shield's. Otherwise your better off deleting everything related to the entire race from the game and that's without exaggeration. Shield's aren't fun, their just a mean's to give armor player's free kill's. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 210	Posted - 2015.07.09 16:54:00 - [3] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I believe a threshold of 15hp, regulator buff, with a slight hp increase to Shield modules will do the trick. And after that REMOVE NATIVE ARMOR REPAIR FROM ALL SUITS. What will the last change accomplish? It will only damage shield users when they have their shields depleted. Except that shield user's native repair's are negligible at best, 1.50 is worthless to me and it didn't matter before hand, however on armor user's who stack straight up armor plate's, will maintain their damage done prior, possibly you could remove armor repair's module's, the native repair and make the repair tool the sole mean's for armor to regen, that'd be a particularly nice way to balance armor and shield's, since shield suit's can naturally repair and armor wouldn't be able to. (Oh how I will love how people make "but lore" excuses for this, but let's face it, if we managed to obtain lasting damage's done to armor, it'd make thing's a lot more balanced.) When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 210	Posted - 2015.07.09 18:06:00 - [4] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Zan Azikuchi wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I believe a threshold of 15hp, regulator buff, with a slight hp increase to Shield modules will do the trick. And after that REMOVE NATIVE ARMOR REPAIR FROM ALL SUITS. What will the last change accomplish? It will only damage shield users when they have their shields depleted. Except that shield user's native repair's are negligible at best, 1.50 is worthless to me and it didn't matter before hand, however on armor user's who stack straight up armor plate's, will maintain their damage done prior, possibly you could remove armor repair's module's, the native repair and make the repair tool the sole mean's for armor to regen, that'd be a particularly nice way to balance armor and shield's, since shield suit's can naturally repair and armor wouldn't be able to. (Oh how I will love how people make "but lore" excuses for this, but let's face it, if we managed to obtain lasting damage's done to armor, it'd make thing's a lot more balanced.) Armor would be completely useless and everyone would skill into Caldari IMMEDIATELY. That is not balanced at all. If you are forced to stay together with someone else just to survive more than one fight, then the game is broken. There is no situation where your proposition is O.K. Armor would be completely useless? With how much ARMOR you have? And you think that armor has the right to run about solo? What is there for caldari? We don't have the mean's to do what armor does, so it make's NO sense that we get fked over at every single update, even now, 900+ armor that can be repaired fast with a rep tool vs a 600+ shield HP that require's for us to wait and use plenty of shield related modules to survive, every weapon does an UNGODLY amount of damage vs shield's, and armor get's the right and deserves that right to stay in the field longer because, why the ** not? Armor fit's using every other gun, by no mean's are armor fit's balanced when you can equip any number of weapon's that can fight at distance, bare in mind, you have to actually get in there and HACK the bloody objective to win the game, and many objective's have ** poor open area's that anybody can simply zip through to get to a shield player, destroy him and hack the OBJ back, where as an armor fit, could talk the talk and walk the walk against many different player's, exception's being SG's and heavies, also bane to shield's. So, how balanced is it if you can equip an armor fit with so much armor, refit it with a weapon of their desire and excel better with that weapon than a shield fit that was created for it racially? Backward's logic here. To top it all off, how many amarr, gallente and minmatar fit's do you see in comparison to shield fit's out there? Excluding the calmando for obvious reason's..... When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 225	Posted - 2015.07.10 16:30:00 - [5] - Quote Y'know, at this point... It appears nobody seems to know how to properly fix shield's so, I'm just gonna sit in the corner here and wait for people to actually realize what's needed.... When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 225	Posted - 2015.07.10 18:05:00 - [6] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: What if they made a shield module that was based around a "shield" reactive plate? Basically: It gives some hp (smaller than extender) and gives shield regen... when running. (This shield regen being independent of other types of shield regen) This way it promotes shields to be done on the move, and helps to enhance their appeal in quick movement / skirmish situations. Also, make the Shield Energizer provide (in addition to its other bonuses) a bonus to threshold. (not a big one, but something to help make the module more attractive.) 2 problem's. 1. the running module wouldn't be appealing and would be seen as a coward's module. If CCP did this, shield user's would lose their faith in the company, in terms of shield balance. Also, the module itself sound's very complex, and almost worthless, given how much damage high alpha shield weapon's do. Simplicity vs Complexity, simplicity will win out in this game. 2. energizers are highly appealing as they are and it would be nice if they did that. BUT, then we'd be looking at other shield modules to do the same that energizers do, but in different aspect's, putting more in CCP's bowl of **** to balance. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 225	Posted - 2015.07.10 19:15:00 - [7] - Quote Devadander wrote: All of this and a ball of twine. First, I would like to point out, threshold is for all suits. Raise this too high and that's the end of that. Second, we have brainstormed time and time again over possible equipment/augment/tools, with no response. Third, at this point I've lost any hope of an answer to shield users laments. We could have 3 types of extenders... We could have better racial skillboosts... We could have tools and equipment... But we don't, and most likely never will. [Bittervetting intensifies] Y'know how Tony Stark built the "Stark Reactor" in the first Iron Man movie and Obadiah Stane said: "That thing was made just to shut the hippies up!". That's what the threshold for shield's is used for, just to shut the shield's up. EDIT: Still won't stop me from making the arguments that shield's are worthless, until they buff them at least. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 226	Posted - 2015.07.10 20:18:00 - [8] - Quote Squagga wrote: Whelp shield regen is gonna effect all the suits. Not just shield suits. Also I already have a high regen. It's not working. It's not working for any of us. It should be a Caldari bonus, to have more shield hp at a lower cost Or caldari suit's shield's could constantly regen... Given the massive DPS from weapon's, it'd balance itself out. And in exchange we can remove the native armor repairs to the caldari suit. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 228	Posted - 2015.07.10 22:34:00 - [9] - Quote Squagga wrote: Also I'm pretty sure I'd rather just have a Caldari bonus to shield hp at a lower cost. Which it should already be a lower cost, than what it is now Well, more HP won't stop us from getting thrashed by SCR no doubt, but constant regen would stop gun's like the CR from insta gibbing us. Aside from that, HP or constant regen, that's what we'd have to decide here, either one get's us the results we want. Bonus' side however, yeah we should be getting racial bonus' for shield's, but CCP refuses to do so, racial bonus' that is. Well, regardless of whichever, this game wasn't made intended for the play style made up for caldari, it need's to be changed. When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 233	Posted - 2015.07.12 19:26:00 - [10] - Quote Either way, when you look at it, there are a few sure good fire way's to fix the problem, many ways to fix the problem, you could fix base shield's and armor, example written below. Caldari Assault Armor:120 +25% (natural skilling to armor) = 150 Shield's: 400 +25% (natural skilling to shield) = 500 (Something regular for all basic caldari shield suits delays wise) Delay: 3 Depleted Delay: 4 Shield Recharge Unchanged (30) Anything not mentioned remain's unchanged. Caldari Sentinel Armor:200 +25% (armor skill) = 250 Shield:600 +25% (shield skill) = 750 Delay:2 Depleted Delay:1 Shield Recharge: 50 Anything not mentioned remain's unchanged Caldari Scout Armor: 80 +25% (armor skill) = 100 Shield:280 +25% (shield skill) = 350 Delay: 5 Depleted Delay: 6 Recharge: 40 Scan Precision: 35 Suit Profile: 30 Anything not mentioned remain's unchanged. Well let me know what you think about the stat's. Try to keep in mind that shield's get destroyed easily by EVERYTHING as well (talk to you armor boy's). When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.

Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 238	Posted - 2015.07.13 15:22:00 - [11] - Quote Bump When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 252	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:31:00 - [12] - Quote I hope most people realize that we should be looking at this from a lore stand-point, think about it, that's how Gallente got their small buff, looking at lore-side and how to implement it, could fix the shield vs armor situation proper..... You can't argue with lore. (I took a long break from everything dust/ccp to come to this realization). When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
Zan Azikuchi G.R.A.V.E The Ditanian Alliance 252	Posted - 2015.09.07 21:44:00 - [13] - Quote Bump When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.