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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently this gun is alright but it doesn't fit any sort of niche except being a Caladari sidearm. Which would be fine if there weren't much better options available that surpass the Magsec in every way except range. So since its a longer range sidearm why don't we tweak it to become more appealing?
Design
-Give it a scope
-Give it a suppressor
-Make it a longer range tactical sidearm
-Make variants with & without scopes
Why?
Even though regular SMGs are really good, they are loud, everyone can hear them. There is no finisher weapon thats quiet, when it comes to sidearms anyway. There's the Bolt Pistol, but its awful in CQC as it should be and like everything Caladari its much better at range.
How it would work
-A burst-fire SMG fires three shots per burst
-The variant without a scope will fire full-auto as it does now
-The burst would be the most accurate best at range, would do more damage
-The full-auto variant would be good up close, but like ARR becomes more unstable with continued fire, would do less damage
-Basically mimic its RR brothers but with more stability and making a mini tactical RR
Not completely sure how to balance it with the regular SMG variants or if i even should, by i think its a start nonetheless.
Thoughts?
Matari In-Game & Out
Infiltrator-Sneaks behind enemy lines doing work no one else can
Training again... Lets do this
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benandjerrys
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
237
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Minus the suppressor +1.
ONE UNIVERSE//ONE WAR
Let's bring back Dust/EvE cross content
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
As I've noted in quite a few other locations having the entire racial line of weapons at significant disadvantage in short to mid range fights when the primary method of securing victory in a match is attack and defend small objectives in close quarters is ridiculous.
The absolute biggest detractor for the MagSec for me is the charge time. I would gladly trade a little bit of range for no charge time.
My thought is that the racial line of weapons should generally accentuate the themes of a race as a whole while giving you solid options across the engagement spectrum. The MagSec can be quickly balanced to still give you solid striking power and range for a sidearm but lose the ridiculous charge mechanic and give the Caldari a good option in CQC.
I run logi about 90% of the time I play and if the MagSec didn't have the charge time it would probably be a "go to" weapon for several of my builds.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:Minus the suppressor +1.
The game art in game has it with a suppressor last time i checked. Maybe a variant without a suppressor as well, it will be the vanilla variant of the Mag. Like it is now, basically.
Matari In-Game & Out
Infiltrator-Sneaks behind enemy lines doing work no one else can
Training again... Lets do this
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2015.07.02 11:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:As I've noted in quite a few other locations having the entire racial line of weapons at significant disadvantage in short to mid range fights when the primary method of securing victory in a match is attack and defend small objectives in close quarters is ridiculous.
The absolute biggest detractor for the MagSec for me is the charge time. I would gladly trade a little bit of range for no charge time.
My thought is that the racial line of weapons should generally accentuate the themes of a race as a whole while giving you solid options across the engagement spectrum. The MagSec can be quickly balanced to still give you solid striking power and range for a sidearm but lose the ridiculous charge mechanic and give the Caldari a good option in CQC.
I run logi about 90% of the time I play and if the MagSec didn't have the charge time it would probably be a "go to" weapon for several of my builds.
I'm thinking of that too i just don't know which variant besides tactical to put it on. Maybe it be a similar thing with regular SMG
-Assault longest range least damage
-Breach highest damage shortest range
-Regular in the middle
Mag
-Tactical longest range least damage
-Breach highest damage shortest range
-Vanilla in the middle
So breach would have longest charge-up cause highest damage, tactical would have barely any, and the vanilla would have no charge-up but would be a Master of None due to its.... in-betweeness. I just think it should partially mimic the RR.
What about that Jaysyn?
Matari In-Game & Out
Infiltrator-Sneaks behind enemy lines doing work no one else can
Training again... Lets do this
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
11
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Posted - 2015.07.02 12:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Like the idea, though I disagree on one point. The BP is not awful in CQC.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2015.07.02 12:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Like the idea, though I disagree on one point. The BP is not awful in CQC.
Its alright in CQC but a CQC based weapon would be better no doubt. Just saying currently 9/10 you're better of with a Bolt Pistol in CQC then the Mag. Just comparing it cause both Caladari tech, while Bolt mimics the Sniper, Mag should mimic the RR. All im saying.
ALL ABORD THE MAG TRAIN! CHOO! CHOO! (+1 for the actual MAG reference)
Matari IRL xD
Matari=Gets SCR BPO. It really doesn't matter what race you are :shrugs:
Doesn't comprehend stupid
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benandjerrys
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
237
|
Posted - 2015.07.02 14:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:benandjerrys wrote:Minus the suppressor +1. The game art in game has it with a suppressor last time i checked. Maybe a variant without a suppressor as well, it will be the vanilla variant of the Mag. Like it is now, basically.
I know. But parity with suppressors for the smg would be qq'd. I'm tired of hearing qq.
ONE UNIVERSE//ONE WAR
Let's bring back Dust/EvE cross content
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
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Posted - 2015.07.02 14:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
benandjerrys wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:benandjerrys wrote:Minus the suppressor +1. The game art in game has it with a suppressor last time i checked. Maybe a variant without a suppressor as well, it will be the vanilla variant of the Mag. Like it is now, basically. I know. But parity with suppressors for the smg would be qq'd. I'm tired of hearing qq.
It would be QQd by people that don't or don't care to understand stealth. It shouldn't be a problem if its introduced properly, but that doesn't mean wouldn't. So certain ideas just get swept under cause some people don't like it?
I want to make it more appealing without it being OP and bring in a little lore as well. Since there's no way to make everyone happy i am going with it.
Matari IRL xD
Matari=Gets SCR BPO. It really doesn't matter what race you are :shrugs:
Doesn't comprehend stupid
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
I agree the best way to describe the MSMG is 'alright'.
The one thing the bothers me but it is that it's worse at hipfire than the actual rail rifle.
Meaning it's inferior to the RR in every way.
I think there should be a situation where your rifle is ideal, and a situation for your side IE: Short range, long range.
Official CPM Platform
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Last time I checked the bolt pistol was still king of pistols, good in long range and cqc.
"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited."
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
177
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Posted - 2015.07.02 20:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Currently this gun is alright but it doesn't fit any sort of niche except being a Caladari sidearm. Which would be fine if there weren't much better options available that surpass the Magsec in every way except range. So since its a longer range sidearm why don't we tweak it to become more appealing? Design -Give it a scope -Give it a suppressor -Make it a longer range tactical sidearm -Make variants with & without scopes Why? Even though regular SMGs are really good, they are loud, everyone can hear them. There is no finisher weapon thats quiet, when it comes to sidearms anyway. There's the Bolt Pistol, but its awful in CQC as it should be and like everything Caladari its much better at range. How it would work -A burst-fire SMG fires three shots per burst -The variant without a scope will fire full-auto as it does now -The burst would be the most accurate best at range, would do more damage -The full-auto variant would be good up close, but like ARR becomes more unstable with continued fire, would do less damage -Basically mimic its RR brothers but with more stability and making a mini tactical RR Not completely sure how to balance it with the regular SMG variants or if i even should, by i think its a start nonetheless. Thoughts?
Or just give the Magsec's the BP optic's and remove the BP's optic's, boom instant balancing, your opticless BP is now harder to use for it's damage, and the Magsec's optic now make's the gun easier to use. But that's one non-essential fix.
A good fix, would be to force SMG's into a specialist only weapon, limit it's use, that's why none of the SMG's are probably balanced for what they are, sure they do good damage, but good damage doesn't equal balance, and limiting said weapon's make's them viable to be better and improved.
Specialist weapon's would be, Swarm Launcher, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle, Laser Rifle, Mass Driver, Forge gun, and any Pistol. If a Rifle of any kind or an HMG of any kind, tactical, burst, or standard, were to be equipped, you would receive a "Fitting Error". This would allow sidearm weapon's to shine in CQC or Distance as intended, while forcing player's, newb's and vet's alike, to equip a pistol sidearm, which you rarely see now.
(Yes I understand that this game is ALL about the freedom of fitting, but if that freedom mean's that certain weapon's shouldn't function as intended or correctly, or at all, then that freedom should be limited, I mean we have a red line after all).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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demens grimwulff
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
601
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Posted - 2015.07.06 13:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Using the MagSec, as it sits, is an exercise in futility. There are much better options available (BP for Cal loyalist, SMG for someone who wants a full auto back-up, and Flaylock for a good AoE back-up), and, as it sits, it is broken and worthless. Several things need to be changed... charge time vs range, and hip fire spread are huge issues.
CPM2 Candidate
Intent to run is found here: Intent
Allow me to help improve Dust
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2015.07.06 14:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:As I've noted in quite a few other locations having the entire racial line of weapons at significant disadvantage in short to mid range fights when the primary method of securing victory in a match is attack and defend small objectives in close quarters is ridiculous.
The absolute biggest detractor for the MagSec for me is the charge time. I would gladly trade a little bit of range for no charge time.
My thought is that the racial line of weapons should generally accentuate the themes of a race as a whole while giving you solid options across the engagement spectrum. The MagSec can be quickly balanced to still give you solid striking power and range for a sidearm but lose the ridiculous charge mechanic and give the Caldari a good option in CQC.
I run logi about 90% of the time I play and if the MagSec didn't have the charge time it would probably be a "go to" weapon for several of my builds. I'm thinking of that too i just don't know which variant besides tactical to put it on. Maybe it be a similar thing with regular SMG -Assault longest range least damage -Breach highest damage shortest range -Regular in the middle Mag -Tactical longest range least damage -Breach highest damage shortest range -Vanilla in the middle So breach would have longest charge-up cause highest damage, tactical would have barely any, and the vanilla would have no charge-up but would be a Master of None due to its.... in-betweeness. I just think it should partially mimic the RR. What about that Jaysyn?
Technically, the Caldari are the "breach" race. That said, the naming conventions and design themes are pretty muddled...the Caldari should be the "tactical" weapons race w/ long range and perhaps even the RR functioning like the SCR (semi-auto and heavy hitting charged shot). The spool mechanic in LW / Sidearms appears to be a poor mechanic just dropped in to make them feel different.
Recommendations (based on protofits.com stats)
- Remove spool time on the weapon. Consider a charge shot option (ala SCR) if they every make a Tactical MagSec.
- lower the range to 40m optimal / 60m effective (-4m / -3m) ...could shave another 3m off the optimal if there is a compelling reason.
- increase base DPS to 380 (+10)....can be combination of slight ROF & dmg increase (I would weight it towards dmg)
- mild increase in hipfire accuracy
- noticeable decrease in recoil...the sights are atrocious it's very tough to get the rounds on target sometimes
- noticeable decrease in dispersion (not sure if this is a major contributor to the shots landing not landing on target)
On a side note - I'm a HUGE fan of putting the bolt pistol sight on the MagSec & Assault Rail Rifle.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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demens grimwulff
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
602
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Posted - 2015.07.06 14:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:On a side note - I'm a HUGE fan of putting the bolt pistol sight on the MagSec & Assault Rail Rifle.
I love me a good red dot sight. After using the ARR extensively, I can say I am not a fan of its iron sights, despite being an iron sight loyalist. If we could get modular weapons with the ability to place different scopes on different weapon platforms, I would change the ARR and the Boundless CR immediately (the zoom factor messes with me to much).
As far as the dispersion is concerned, the MagSec blue shields and misses enemies way to frequently. Not sure if there is a glitch in the code or if the dispersion on it is just psychotic, but something is going on there. Will talk to Amadi about making a trial video on it.
CPM2 Candidate
Intent to run is found here: Intent
Allow me to help improve Dust
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2015.07.06 15:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
demens grimwulff wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:On a side note - I'm a HUGE fan of putting the bolt pistol sight on the MagSec & Assault Rail Rifle. I love me a good red dot sight. After using the ARR extensively, I can say I am not a fan of its iron sights, despite being an iron sight loyalist. If we could get modular weapons with the ability to place different scopes on different weapon platforms, I would change the ARR and the Boundless CR immediately (the zoom factor messes with me to much). As far as the dispersion is concerned, the MagSec blue shields and misses enemies way to frequently. Not sure if there is a glitch in the code or if the dispersion on it is just psychotic, but something is going on there. Will talk to Amadi about making a trial video on it.
We've gotten favorable responses on the Trello from CCP Rattati on reflex & red dot sights for quite a few weapons but apparently it's not quite as easy to execute as he would like.
Ref. dispersion in general...it's a ridiculous stat IMO. Shots going at random 20 degree angles from the barrel? Not a good mechanic.
The MagSec I think should have the feel of a precision close quarters tool...accurate and lethal for ADS and tight controlled hip fire that rewards good engagements and gives minimal value to spray-n-pray (where the Minmatar SMG shines).
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
193
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Posted - 2015.07.06 16:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:demens grimwulff wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:On a side note - I'm a HUGE fan of putting the bolt pistol sight on the MagSec & Assault Rail Rifle. I love me a good red dot sight. After using the ARR extensively, I can say I am not a fan of its iron sights, despite being an iron sight loyalist. If we could get modular weapons with the ability to place different scopes on different weapon platforms, I would change the ARR and the Boundless CR immediately (the zoom factor messes with me to much). As far as the dispersion is concerned, the MagSec blue shields and misses enemies way to frequently. Not sure if there is a glitch in the code or if the dispersion on it is just psychotic, but something is going on there. Will talk to Amadi about making a trial video on it. We've gotten favorable responses on the Trello from CCP Rattati on reflex & red dot sights for quite a few weapons but apparently it's not quite as easy to execute as he would like. Ref. dispersion in general...it's a ridiculous stat IMO. Shots going at random 20 degree angles from the barrel? Not a good mechanic. The MagSec I think should have the feel of a precision close quarters tool...accurate and lethal for ADS and tight controlled hip fire that rewards good engagements and gives minimal value to spray-n-pray (where the Minmatar SMG shines).
Reduce ammo capacity, increase damage....
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2015.07.06 17:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:demens grimwulff wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:On a side note - I'm a HUGE fan of putting the bolt pistol sight on the MagSec & Assault Rail Rifle. I love me a good red dot sight. After using the ARR extensively, I can say I am not a fan of its iron sights, despite being an iron sight loyalist. If we could get modular weapons with the ability to place different scopes on different weapon platforms, I would change the ARR and the Boundless CR immediately (the zoom factor messes with me to much). As far as the dispersion is concerned, the MagSec blue shields and misses enemies way to frequently. Not sure if there is a glitch in the code or if the dispersion on it is just psychotic, but something is going on there. Will talk to Amadi about making a trial video on it. We've gotten favorable responses on the Trello from CCP Rattati on reflex & red dot sights for quite a few weapons but apparently it's not quite as easy to execute as he would like. Ref. dispersion in general...it's a ridiculous stat IMO. Shots going at random 20 degree angles from the barrel? Not a good mechanic. The MagSec I think should have the feel of a precision close quarters tool...accurate and lethal for ADS and tight controlled hip fire that rewards good engagements and gives minimal value to spray-n-pray (where the Minmatar SMG shines). Reduce ammo capacity, increase damage....
With my aforementioned changes that would fit well.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
194
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 18:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:As I've noted in quite a few other locations having the entire racial line of weapons at significant disadvantage in short to mid range fights when the primary method of securing victory in a match is attack and defend small objectives in close quarters is ridiculous.
The absolute biggest detractor for the MagSec for me is the charge time. I would gladly trade a little bit of range for no charge time.
My thought is that the racial line of weapons should generally accentuate the themes of a race as a whole while giving you solid options across the engagement spectrum. The MagSec can be quickly balanced to still give you solid striking power and range for a sidearm but lose the ridiculous charge mechanic and give the Caldari a good option in CQC.
I run logi about 90% of the time I play and if the MagSec didn't have the charge time it would probably be a "go to" weapon for several of my builds. I'm thinking of that too i just don't know which variant besides tactical to put it on. Maybe it be a similar thing with regular SMG -Assault longest range least damage -Breach highest damage shortest range -Regular in the middle Mag -Tactical longest range least damage -Breach highest damage shortest range -Vanilla in the middle So breach would have longest charge-up cause highest damage, tactical would have barely any, and the vanilla would have no charge-up but would be a Master of None due to its.... in-betweeness. I just think it should partially mimic the RR. What about that Jaysyn? Technically, the Caldari are the "breach" race. That said, the naming conventions and design themes are pretty muddled...the Caldari should be the "tactical" weapons race w/ long range and perhaps even the RR functioning like the SCR (semi-auto and heavy hitting charged shot). The spool mechanic in LW / Sidearms appears to be a poor mechanic just dropped in to make them feel different. Recommendations (based on protofits.com stats) - Remove spool time on the weapon. Consider a semi-auto & charge shot option (ala SCR) if they ever make a Tactical MagSec. - lower the range to 40m optimal / 60m effective (-4m / -3m) ...could shave another 3m off the optimal if there is a compelling reason. - increase base DPS to 380 (+10)....can be combination of slight ROF & dmg increase (I would weight it towards dmg) - mild increase in hipfire accuracy - noticeable decrease in recoil...the sights are atrocious it's very tough to get the rounds on target sometimes - noticeable decrease in dispersion (not sure if this is a major contributor to the shots landing not landing on target) On a side note - I'm a HUGE fan of putting the bolt pistol sight on the MagSec & Assault Rail Rifle.
Y'know, on another post, someone though of removing all the Charge Spool's on the railgun's, and instead have a battery, if you run out of the energy in the battery the gun cease's to fire, it's a better penalty to the RG's in my opinion currently as it allows feathering of the weapon's and increase's usefulness of the RG related weapon's
(Rail Gun)
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
|
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2015.07.06 21:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
repeated post
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 21:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:
Y'know, on another post, someone though of removing all the Charge Spool's on the railgun's, and instead have a battery, if you run out of the energy in the battery the gun cease's to fire, it's a better penalty to the RG's in my opinion currently as it allows feathering of the weapon's and increase's usefulness of the RG related weapon's
(Rail Gun)
Yeah, that was probably some of my posts you were referring to. I've been pitching ideas on rail mechanics and the long term issues with them in general for a while.
Other than the battery, aka capacitor, idea (functionally same as heat in Amarr weapons) the other way to put a brake on the spool time nonsense is to have the Caldari infantry weapons with the same spool mechanic where a charge penalty is incurred if you charge but fail to fire a round same as the rail turrets. Then you could dramatically shorten the spool time to around .15 since the charge time is a true hard cap and can't be overcome with pre-charging or fluttering the trigger.
Back on topic...the MagSec is supposed to be the close range component of the Caldari Weapon family and something like spool time is directly counter to that. Even in EVE where the Caldari are long range specialists they have very viable and popular short range options.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
11
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 00:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:
Y'know, on another post, someone though of removing all the Charge Spool's on the railgun's, and instead have a battery, if you run out of the energy in the battery the gun cease's to fire, it's a better penalty to the RG's in my opinion currently as it allows feathering of the weapon's and increase's usefulness of the RG related weapon's
(Rail Gun)
Yeah, that was probably some of my posts you were referring to. I've been pitching ideas on rail mechanics and the long term issues with them in general for a while. Other than the battery, aka capacitor, idea (functionally same as heat in Amarr weapons) the other way to put a brake on the spool time nonsense is to have the Caldari infantry weapons with the same spool mechanic where a charge penalty is incurred if you charge but fail to fire a round same as the rail turrets. Then you could dramatically shorten the spool time to around .15 since the charge time is a true hard cap and can't be overcome with pre-charging or fluttering the trigger. Back on topic...the MagSec is supposed to be the close range component of the Caldari Weapon family and something like spool time is directly counter to that. Even in EVE where the Caldari are long range specialists they have very viable and popular short range options.
In my personal opinion, spool-up times are needed on the RR, ARR and (especially) the Bolt Pistol. I'm at max proficiency in both trees, and I use these weapons on the majority of my loadouts. could see it being reduced/replaced on the MagSec, but the others I'm not so sure. On the topic, if Heavy/Sentinel performance creeps beyond acceptable bounds, spool up would be a great way to balance an overperforming HMG.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
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Posted - 2015.07.07 03:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:
Y'know, on another post, someone though of removing all the Charge Spool's on the railgun's, and instead have a battery, if you run out of the energy in the battery the gun cease's to fire, it's a better penalty to the RG's in my opinion currently as it allows feathering of the weapon's and increase's usefulness of the RG related weapon's
(Rail Gun)
Yeah, that was probably some of my posts you were referring to. I've been pitching ideas on rail mechanics and the long term issues with them in general for a while. Other than the battery, aka capacitor, idea (functionally same as heat in Amarr weapons) the other way to put a brake on the spool time nonsense is to have the Caldari infantry weapons with the same spool mechanic where a charge penalty is incurred if you charge but fail to fire a round same as the rail turrets. Then you could dramatically shorten the spool time to around .15 since the charge time is a true hard cap and can't be overcome with pre-charging or fluttering the trigger. Back on topic...the MagSec is supposed to be the close range component of the Caldari Weapon family and something like spool time is directly counter to that. Even in EVE where the Caldari are long range specialists they have very viable and popular short range options. In my personal opinion, spool-up times are needed on the RR, ARR and (especially) the Bolt Pistol. I run these weapons on the majority of my loadouts and would oppose a buff in the form spool-up replacement on the grounds that they'd become OP. That said, I could definitely see spool-up being reduced/replaced on the MagSec. On the topic, spool-up would be a great way to bring into balance an overperforming HMG should Heavy/Sentinel performance creep beyond acceptable bounds again.
You'll notice that I don't advocate leaving all stats the same and just cutting spool time.
The concept of a general purpose infantry weapon that has a very noticeable delay to fire is honestly pretty ridiculous. In total, I would slightly buff the AR range and nerf the RR / ARR range so there is less of a dramatic gap. This in conjunction with tweaking the DPS so they are still lowest in class but competitive would be a more than welcome tradeoff for the loss of Spool time. This is one time that i'm squarely in CCP Rattati's camp that EVE lore sometime just doesn't transfer to the FPS format.
I will say that the RR / ASCR should have paralleled the SCR / ASCR with adjustments to range and damage from jump street and we could have made things much simpler on everyone.
The MagSec is the where the all Cal weapons must have a charge time starts to come off the track give that it is mostly intended as a back up weapon or for relatively close quarters.
I would also point out that the Bolt Pistol is way out there in the OP zone whether it has spool time or not. Why the need for a pocket sniper rifle came to someones mind I have absolutely no idea. It out ranges all but a handful of weapons and hits like a ton of bricks for the cost of a sidearm slot.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
6
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Posted - 2015.07.07 03:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Personally I've always seen SMGs as shorter ranged versions of their light weapon counterparts. That being said, despite being longer range, the Magsec is innately a closer quarters weapon. Traditionally speaking the spool time has been a means to counterbalance the longer range of Caldari weapons which is for the most part fine. However as Jay pointed out, this betrays the close quarters style that is the SMG/Magsec.
I think Jay has it spot on...instead of trying to force the charge mechanic for the Magsec, pull in the range/dps curve a bit to make it more similar to the SMG (but still maintaining a longer range/lower DPS) and then remove/significantly reduce the charge time so the weapon is viable in a wide range of situations.
Also I would totally use a burst Magsec if it were available, and getting a proper sight on that thing would do the weapon wonders. It pretty much has the original Plasma Rifle sights which were changed for a good reason 
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
859
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 17:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:Currently this gun is alright but it doesn't fit any sort of niche except being a Caladari sidearm. Which would be fine if there weren't much better options available that surpass the Magsec in every way except range. So since its a longer range sidearm why don't we tweak it to become more appealing? Design -Give it a scope -Give it a suppressor -Make it a longer range tactical sidearm -Make variants with & without scopes Why? Even though regular SMGs are really good, they are loud, everyone can hear them. There is no finisher weapon thats quiet, when it comes to sidearms anyway. There's the Bolt Pistol, but its awful in CQC as it should be and like everything Caladari its much better at range. How it would work -A burst-fire SMG fires three shots per burst -The variant without a scope will fire full-auto as it does now -The burst would be the most accurate best at range, would do more damage -The full-auto variant would be good up close, but like ARR becomes more unstable with continued fire, would do less damage -Basically mimic its RR brothers but with more stability and making a mini tactical RR Not completely sure how to balance it with the regular SMG variants or if i even should, by i think its a start nonetheless. Thoughts?
This is an idea, and lord knows the magsec needs some ideas.
SMG is pretty quiet though, people outside of ~10-20 meters will generally not hear it. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
201
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 18:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sad part is, we have some pretty long range map's, so why not increase the range of all the weapon's across the board? Closed Beta had lot's of old long range map's, why not bring them back?
(This is haphazardly unrelated to the Magsec, but all thing's considering it would gain quite a bit from extended range).
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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demens grimwulff
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
603
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 21:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jaysyn, Amadi and I have done some initial testing on the MagSec (before being banned from FW for 24 hours) and we have, in preliminary tests, shown that:
1) roughly 20% of bullets miss at 20m, standing still and ADS
2) during a slow side strafe (consistently in one direction) the miss rate increases to 55%
If we get any no-show PCS tonight, we will continue filming and get 3 more repeated experiments... as we have 1 experiment of standing still, and 2 of him strafing.
CPM2 Candidate
Intent to run is found here: Intent
Allow me to help improve Dust
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
861
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 23:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Last time I checked the bolt pistol was still king of pistols, good in long range and cqc.
Ion pistol is better at close range than the bolt, which is fine. Doesnt matter since the SMG is better than both in CQC, so only the bolt pistol is useful. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 00:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Actually, we could nerf the DMG of the RR's in a replacement for the spool in exchange for the Battery, hell we could even make much more preffered drawbacks to all the Caldari Light and Sidearm weapon's.
Like (These are only example's) only being able to fire half the clip due to battery count per shot (differentiate's based on variant and differentiate's between light and sidearm weapon's), and for every 10 recharge you get 1 charge by number of the recharge delay, so as to emphasize the use and requirement of a shield specialized suit like the min's and cal's (again differentiate's between light and sidearm).
Assault variant's and SMG's would gain 1 charge for every 1 shield recharge and would have their own innate recharge delay (meaning less requirement's to use shield recharges and less requirement of shield regulators).
Getting on topic of the Magsec, a damage increase, a magazine decrease, and increase accuracy, (apparently it does have bad accuracy) and a dot sight, the battery as a draw back should keep it from being FOTM at least in anyone but a min or cal's hand, while a removal of charging mechanic's would help it better excel at being a CQC weapon, and if it has at least 35 damage that increases by 2 from basic to adv to proto, it should do fine.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 02:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Actually, we could nerf the DMG of the RR's in a replacement for the spool in exchange for the Battery, hell we could even make much more preffered drawbacks to all the Caldari Light and Sidearm weapon's.
Like (These are only example's) only being able to fire half the clip due to battery count per shot (differentiate's based on variant and differentiate's between light and sidearm weapon's), and for every 10 recharge you get 1 charge by number of the recharge delay, so as to emphasize the use and requirement of a shield specialized suit like the min's and cal's (again differentiate's between light and sidearm).
Assault variant's and SMG's would gain 1 charge for every 1 shield recharge and would have their own innate recharge delay (meaning less requirement's to use shield recharges and less requirement of shield regulators).
Getting on topic of the Magsec, a damage increase, a magazine decrease, and increase accuracy, (apparently it does have bad accuracy) and a dot sight, the battery as a draw back should keep it from being FOTM at least in anyone but a min or cal's hand, while a removal of charging mechanic's would help it better excel at being a CQC weapon, and if it has at least 35 damage that increases by 2 from basic to adv to proto, it should do fine.
Well put, Zan.
You've definitely captured quite a few of the points i've been kicking around and applied some additional thought in a direction I hadn't.
If only we could get someone that does development on Dust 514 to check out this thread.... 
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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