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Moochie Cricket
The Templis Dragonaurs
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.22 23:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel?
Caldari Tribute Montage
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
24
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Posted - 2015.06.23 14:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel?
We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.23 14:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel? We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
Think it'd be a pretty good way to keep players from leaving the initial match. Can't tell you how many times I've watched droves of players leave the battle because they saw 'Negative-Feedback' on the other end while still in the warbarge, at least in FW.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
907
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Posted - 2015.06.23 14:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't think this is a good long-term idea. Currently, the PC player pool is too small to have any sort of mystery to it. I would need to hear a good argument for why limiting this information - in and of itself - is beneficial.
I got enemies,
got a lot of enemies
, got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
17
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Posted - 2015.06.23 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
This would fit more with a sandbox variant of DUST, not what we have right now.
"To find out if they consent, poke the giant boobs. If they jiggle once, that means no. If twice, that means yes" - Anon
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Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
197
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Posted - 2015.06.23 15:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
With the way the chat system is right now, this is a bad idea. Last minute restructuring of squads in the war barge is not uncommon, and currently relies on the scoreboard to do that.
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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Bri Bub
Eternal Beings
237
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Posted - 2015.06.23 16:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think it is a novel suggestion and one that would shake things up in the battle preparation for sure but... It doesn't really make sense to me that there would be no advance intel on the composition of the other team... Sure, maybe knowing actual merc names is something that doesn't need to me obvious at the outset of a battle but at least knowing the tags/corps that are involved seems like it should be within the grasp of technology 22,000 years in the future...
As an example, maybe think of it in terms of the movie Braveheart... You look across the battlefield to see the English force on one side and the Scottish, Irish and other contingents that are remarkable based on their attire, battle gear, flags...
I mean, IRL today we have technology that can read license plates from drones or satellites but in 22,000 years battle tech has diminished to having practically no intelligence in the minutes leading up to the fight? other than the attacking/defending corp's name which becomes meaningless with ringers particularly if you can't see at least the corp tags that are participating...
And if we are going to remove the player list from the warbage, you may as well just turn off the lights completely and have everyone bumping around in a big dark room since the recent removal of squad/team lists made it extremely difficulty to simply adjust how your team is allocated across squads... To completely remove player list will eliminate any possibility to moving squad members around...
I don't hate this idea, above are just some of my thoughts around the topic... Maybe it makes more sense in Pubs to reduce the reasons for people to quit the fight when they some big baddies that are about to push their teeth in...
Be just and if you can't be just be arbitrary.
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Weznof Nalek
Providentia Aeternam
Astroya Conglomerate.
102
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Posted - 2015.06.23 17:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel? We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
It is better that you keep this idea but for an other concept of battle. I propose to remove list of player for the wormhole space.
No alliee, no friend in the unknow space.
1 vs 31.
No alliee, no friend.
No HUD.
Weznof Nalec, Judge Magister
CEO of Providentia Aeternam
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.23 17:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maybe not PC and FW matches because people use actual, you know, strategies in those.
But for Pub matches I quite like the idea for the reason that Aeon mentioned. Stops people checking out the player list and deciding it'll easy or hard and promptly sodding off if its the latter.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Moochie Cricket
The Templis Dragonaurs
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 17:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Maybe not PC and FW matches because people use actual, you know, strategies in those.
But for Pub matches I quite like the idea for the reason that Aeon mentioned. Stops people checking out the player list and deciding it'll easy or hard and promptly sodding off if its the latter.
I could definitely get behind removing the player list from pubs. Would you also advocate removing player names from the killfeed in pubs? It gives you the same info eventually if you are paying attention.
As for using strategy in PC or FW, this proposed change would only shift the prematch gameplan to a more reactive strategy during the actual battle. FCs would need to make sure they build a versatile team of 16 able to respond to any challenge rather than spamming "x". Feints during mass attacks could actually succeed since you wouldnt be able to send one person to every district under attack just to see where the main enemy force will show up.
Caldari Tribute Montage
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Moochie Cricket
The Templis Dragonaurs
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bri Bub wrote:I think it is a novel suggestion and one that would shake things up in the battle preparation for sure but... It doesn't really make sense to me that there would be no advance intel on the composition of the other team... Sure, maybe knowing actual merc names is something that doesn't need to me obvious at the outset of a battle but at least knowing the tags/corps that are involved seems like it should be within the grasp of technology 22,000 years in the future...
As an example, maybe think of it in terms of the movie Braveheart... You look across the battlefield to see the English force on one side and the Scottish, Irish and other contingents that are remarkable based on their attire, battle gear, flags...
I mean, IRL today we have technology that can read license plates from drones or satellites but in 22,000 years battle tech has diminished to having practically no intelligence in the minutes leading up to the fight? other than the attacking/defending corp's name which becomes meaningless with ringers particularly if you can't see at least the corp tags that are participating...
And if we are going to remove the player list from the warbage, you may as well just turn off the lights completely and have everyone bumping around in a big dark room since the recent removal of squad/team lists made it extremely difficulty to simply adjust how your team is allocated across squads... To completely remove player list will eliminate any possibility to moving squad members around...
I don't hate this idea, above are just some of my thoughts around the topic... Maybe it makes more sense in Pubs to reduce the reasons for people to quit the fight when they some big baddies that are about to push their teeth in...
Real life doesn't matter in Dust, just look at railgun rounds that dissappear after only 600 meters. Plus, counter intelligence evolves alongside intelligence gathering. Take a look at isis members using a single shared email account to communicate without the emails being intercepted, by only writing drafts and not actually sending anything.
Caldari Tribute Montage
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel? We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
I would say that for pubs sure as it would help some of the leaving battle issue, but I'm on the fence about this for PC.
On one hand it would actually make spying have some point, but on the other I think it would potentially give teams of ringers too much of an advantage. Also, this would make no show matches kinda ridiculous unless something is done where if less than X players show for a match it's forfeited.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
I can see how this might cut down the number of people leaving battle prematurely, but I strongly disagree with removing the list from PC.
The stress and difficulty of getting a team ready went up ten fold after chat was removed from the warbarge, and I believe it would become harder still if the player list was removed.
With PC 2.0 coming fast, we should be doing everything we can to get newer players into the PC community, rather than make it even more complicated and daunting than it is now.
YouTube
Pink Scramblers!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Weznof Nalek wrote:It is better that you keep this idea but for an other concept of battle. I propose to remove list of player for the wormhole space.
No alliee, no friend in the unknow space.
1 vs 31.
No alliee, no friend.
No HUD.
A gamemode that evokes wormhole space, and all the unknowns that go with it.
A very interesting idea...
YouTube
Pink Scramblers!
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 19:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel? We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
So now i have to throw the dice to see if i have to put on my super duper tryhard pants. Ideas like this are rather counter productive and no FPS game on the market does this. This idea is just silly. In my opinion there should rather be a quitting penalty then not beeing aible to see who you are going to fight against.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.23 21:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
With all due respect:
Fixing Problems > Hiding Problems
My two cents, at least.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Piercing Serenity
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
910
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Posted - 2015.06.23 22:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
1) No issues from me here
2) Fundamentally disagree
3) Disagree
For suggestion 2, I personally believe that expense should always be part of the equation. Bleeding out your opponent's wallets - either in small scale skirmishes or as a War tactic - should be a viable victory condition. I think that the vast wallets of many players is a huge reason why stomping in proto suits is so prolific. Proto suits were still rare and very expensive (particularly heavies) before the asset wipe.
For suggestion 3, I think that we need alternative ways to make money, instead of giving more help to the losers. PvE, Player Trading, and Manufacturing come to mind. If players feel like they can fund some PvP action by doing some easier work on the side, then the disparity between winning and losing payouts seems more acceptable to me. If I've made 30 mil off of player trading, ISK will be "out of the equation" for as much of that 30m as I budget for PvP.
I think that alternative, lucrative methods of making money will reduce the strain of feeling like you need to make 500K in a pub match to break even after a loss.
I got enemies,
got a lot of enemies
, got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
203
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Posted - 2015.06.23 23:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Isn't one of the (sorta) useful traits of Dust knowing people's strategies and fits and using that information agaimst them? Perhaps from the in battle text, but letting teammates know about certain threats ie which tanker is the one with 2 reps v or the one with 2 hardeners, or which guy is running the alex hmg vs assault hmg vs burst hmg for heavies. I enjoy that strayegic element. Especially since most pc people have allianced up and removed removed what little espionage that could be done in Dust.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.23 23:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:
1) No issues from me here
2) Fundamentally disagree
3) Disagree
For suggestion 2, I personally believe that expense should always be part of the equation. Bleeding out your opponent's wallets - either in small scale skirmishes or as a War tactic - should be a viable victory condition. I think that the vast wallets of many players is a huge reason why stomping in proto suits is so prolific. Proto suits were still rare and very expensive (particularly heavies) before the asset wipe.
For suggestion 3, I think that we need alternative ways to make money, instead of giving more help to the losers. PvE, Player Trading, and Manufacturing come to mind. If players feel like they can fund some PvP action by doing some easier work on the side, then the disparity between winning and losing payouts seems more acceptable to me. If I've made 30 mil off of player trading, ISK will be "out of the equation" for as much of that 30m as I budget for PvP.
I think that alternative, lucrative methods of making money will reduce the strain of feeling like you need to make 500K in a pub match to break even after a loss.
On Point 2, I'd completely agree if not for the massive wealth generated by PC 1.0, and with it what presents to be a permanent proto standard. I've run proto gear on a near consistent basis for the past year; at my average rate of daily loss, I could probably make it another 2-3 years before going broke. At ~250M Isk, I don't consider myself to be inordinately rich by PC standards.
The state of the pub play as I see it is either (1) be PC rich and run whatever gear you want or (2) be poor and stay poor in advanced gear or make a little Isk in STD/BPO gear while getting your teeth kicked in by spoiled rich kids. This doesn't make for the greatest match quality, and it doesn't make for an optimal gameplay experience. No one likes getting their teeth kicked in, and no one likes spoiled rich kids :-)
In my estimation, better contract pay (or making good gear affordable) would make the wealth gap less meaningful and ultimately lead to better fighs. I think we messed up when we permitted PC 1.0's creation of a super wealthy class, and I think we'd do well to devalue the permanent edge super wealth affords.
On Point 3, I completely agree. If there were other ways to generate wealth, Point 2 would be less at issue.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Moochie Cricket
The Templis Dragonaurs
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 01:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
CeeJ Mantis wrote:Isn't one of the (sorta) useful traits of Dust knowing people's strategies and fits and using that information agaimst them? Perhaps from the in battle text, but letting teammates know about certain threats ie which tanker is the one with 2 reps v or the one with 2 hardeners, or which guy is running the alex hmg vs assault hmg vs burst hmg for heavies. I enjoy that strayegic element. Especially since most pc people have allianced up and removed removed what little espionage that could be done in Dust.
I disagree with you on the espionage bit. If knowing who you are fightingoing is so useful(as you mentioned), having an anonymous mole within an alliance or corp suddenly becomes very important. And if this game has taught me anything, it is that isk talks.
Caldari Tribute Montage
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 02:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
How about we go even further? We can just remove the other players? Just display the icons, it would be like an arcade game. It would be sooo cool. Maybe even the coolest. 
/snark off
No, please no. If I don't know who I am coming up against then what is the purpose of this? I prefer to know if I am coming up a known PRO/OFF stomper squad. Or two. Also, EVE Online is big into vengeance. Granted Dust doesn't actually have a 'payback' or 'revenge' bonus (like MOG*) but the urge is there. However, there is no possible gain to dropping a -1 tank or using STD gear when the Reds are filled with Q-sync Stompers. No, let me adjust to the battle. If I have to drop PRO gear to survive let me make that decision.
This entire process of making the game a horrific experience baffles me. What is the thinking behind forcing players to lose lives/ISK/Gear in a Free To Play game? A couple of battles where they get stomped out of the gate will just make people look elsewhere. Granted there aren't that many F2P games on PS3 but anybody with a laptop can find a better solution to have fun. You know, fun?
How about releasing a game that is fun instead? You know, like Chromosome was. For that matter, give us back TacNet. That set this game apart from all the other Space Marine FPS games, F2P or not.
* MOG My Other Game - see my foot locker posts.
My favorite tank is a Lightning. Just sayin.
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Starlight Burner
Arrary of Clusters
285
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Posted - 2015.06.24 06:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel? We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
Hell no
CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation
Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today!
Thank you for DUST
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DJINN Jecture
Templar of the Glowing Blade
412
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Posted - 2015.06.24 07:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
I really like the idea of removing the names from pub matches aside from the kill-feed but think removing the lobby would be a better idea. Some time ago CCP had been talking about having Eve pilots move mercs around to hotspots for deployment, having no lobby could mean better interaction with pilots as well as possibly having to search out targets to shoot at.
-ç +æ+Ä ß+¦ß¦+Gé¦ß+¡ !!!
ߦäߦâ-à
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g li2
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
Rise Of Legion.
924
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Posted - 2015.06.24 09:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Public.
I do not like the idea at all.
If someone is afraid, seeing the enemy. Change the game.
BC.
Inadmissible.
Know who fights against you, can make changes in strategy and such details, DUST turns something different
G.A.C.
CHACALES
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 09:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
You dont eliminate the problem by hiding who you are up against. Its then just going to be that when you die 3 times in a row you leave the match cause you have a general idea who you are up against. I could just run some router tools from my PC and highlight the IP's from prominent stompers/corps that do not belong to my region.
See 6 people from NA via IP check= leave battle
See 6 people from japan via IP check= leave battle
What you are about to do is just implement more scrubbery to the game and alienate your allready small playerbase.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.24 10:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:You dont eliminate the problem by hiding who you are up against. Its then just going to be that when you die 3 times in a row you leave the match cause you have a general idea who you are up against. I could just run some router tools from my PC and highlight the IP's from prominent stompers/corps that do not belong to my region.
See 6 people from NA via IP check= leave battle
See 6 people from japan via IP check= leave battle
What you are about to do is just implement more scrubbery to the game and alienate your allready small playerbase.
that's pathetic.
That's really, incredibly pathetic.
People are b*tching nonstop about people leaving matches, I don't want to be put in matches too late, and the turn around and VEHEMENTLY argue against eliminating the intel that allows people to go "Huh, that'll be a challenge, since I want to stomp, not fight, I'm out."
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me. With the low playerbase, we aren't going to have good matchmaking precisely because of this attitude.
People screamed for good matchmaking and good fights. When the matchmaking works? people instantly b*tch out.
Pull off the bandaid and remove people's ability to easily spot challenges and evacuate. This crap is really getting old and not fun.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
11
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Posted - 2015.06.24 11:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
I wholly agree with this and would even like it extended to FW.
Lucent Echelon Chat Channel is fixed
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:]
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me.
God forbid someone disagree with whatever's on Breakin's mind.
CPM Material?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:You dont eliminate the problem by hiding who you are up against.
Exactly this.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Bright Cloud wrote:You dont eliminate the problem by hiding who you are up against. Its then just going to be that when you die 3 times in a row you leave the match cause you have a general idea who you are up against. I could just run some router tools from my PC and highlight the IP's from prominent stompers/corps that do not belong to my region.
See 6 people from NA via IP check= leave battle
See 6 people from japan via IP check= leave battle
What you are about to do is just implement more scrubbery to the game and alienate your allready small playerbase. that's pathetic. That's really, incredibly pathetic. People are b*tching nonstop about people leaving matches, I don't want to be put in matches too late, and the turn around and VEHEMENTLY argue against eliminating the intel that allows people to go "Huh, that'll be a challenge, since I want to stomp, not fight, I'm out." This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me. With the low playerbase, we aren't going to have good matchmaking precisely because of this attitude. People screamed for good matchmaking and good fights. When the matchmaking works? people instantly b*tch out. Pull off the bandaid and remove people's ability to easily spot challenges and evacuate. This crap is really getting old and not fun.
Pathetic? So it is pathetic that i adapt my gameplay to the opposition im facing? Sorry but if i see a full squad from Prima Gallacious i know that using a vehicle is a suicidal task cause all 6 of them will actively hunt down any vehicle. If i see tank drivers/ADS pilots i can decide to spawn as a commando with swarms from the get go to counter them before they murder half of my team.
You are pathetic for encouraging chaotic gameplay. Dust is about strategys and adapting those based on who is on the opposition. If i cant even remotely check who im playing against its just becomes a random factor and randomness is cancer for every FPS game. Its my choice as EU player to leave a match when im facing amercians or japanese who only contribute a annoying match full of lag. And trust me the second CCP goes trough with this i will run IP checks from my PC to see who im up against.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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Moochie Cricket
The Templis Dragonaurs
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Bright Cloud wrote:You dont eliminate the problem by hiding who you are up against. Its then just going to be that when you die 3 times in a row you leave the match cause you have a general idea who you are up against. I could just run some router tools from my PC and highlight the IP's from prominent stompers/corps that do not belong to my region.
See 6 people from NA via IP check= leave battle
See 6 people from japan via IP check= leave battle
What you are about to do is just implement more scrubbery to the game and alienate your allready small playerbase. that's pathetic. That's really, incredibly pathetic. People are b*tching nonstop about people leaving matches, I don't want to be put in matches too late, and the turn around and VEHEMENTLY argue against eliminating the intel that allows people to go "Huh, that'll be a challenge, since I want to stomp, not fight, I'm out." This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me. With the low playerbase, we aren't going to have good matchmaking precisely because of this attitude. People screamed for good matchmaking and good fights. When the matchmaking works? people instantly b*tch out. Pull off the bandaid and remove people's ability to easily spot challenges and evacuate. This crap is really getting old and not fun. Pathetic? So it is pathetic that i adapt my gameplay to the opposition im facing? Sorry but if i see a full squad from Prima Gallacious i know that using a vehicle is a suicidal task cause all 6 of them will actively hunt down any vehicle. If i see tank drivers/ADS pilots i can decide to spawn as a commando with swarms from the get go to counter them before they murder half of my team. You are pathetic for encouraging chaotic gameplay. Dust is about strategys and adapting those based on who is on the opposition. If i cant even remotely check who im playing against its just becomes a random factor and randomness is cancer for every FPS game. Its my choice as EU player to leave a match when im facing amercians or japanese who only contribute a annoying match full of lag. And trust me the second CCP goes trough with this i will run IP checks from my PC to see who im up against.
Real strategy is adapting to the battlefield conditions, not a player list.
Caldari Tribute Montage
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:
Real strategy is adapting to the battlefield conditions, not a player list.
Know your enemy?
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me.
Universe forbid someone see things differently than Breakin. Else Breakin will be pretty much disgusted, and we'll all have to hear about it. CPM Material?
I can contribute from a cpm seat or the floor. I don't feel like candy coating my opinions in the blind hope of becoming more popular.
People who agree with me might vote for me, but I'm not going to backpedal because you invoked an election I might lose.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me.
Universe forbid someone see things differently than Breakin. Else Breakin will be pretty much disgusted, and we'll all have to hear about it. CPM Material? I can contribute from a cpm seat or the floor. I don't feel like candy coating my opinions in the blind hope of becoming more popular. People who agree with me might vote for me, but I'm not going to backpedal because you invoked an election I might lose.
I wouldn't expect you to backpedal, Breakin. But I would expect you to at least try to have an open mind when interacting with the community. Given the job description, and all. There's a good chance you might win.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me.
Universe forbid someone see things differently than Breakin. Else Breakin will be pretty much disgusted, and we'll all have to hear about it. CPM Material? I can contribute from a cpm seat or the floor. I don't feel like candy coating my opinions in the blind hope of becoming more popular. People who agree with me might vote for me, but I'm not going to backpedal because you invoked an election I might lose. I wouldn't expect you to backpedal, Breakin. But I would expect you to at least try to have an open mind when interacting with the community. Given the job description, and all. There's a good chance you might win.
Possibly. I'm not banking on anything here, I might have to back out because of circumstance changes. We'll see.
But bluntly, this leaving battle crap needs to end. and it needs to end hard.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
... this leaving battle crap needs to end. and it needs to end hard.
Completely agree. But dumbing down the game won't address the underlying issues. I'm of the opinion that there is more at play here than cowardice. We should at least give the playerbase the benefit of the doubt.
Breakin Stuff wrote:
... because of circumstance changes.
Hope all is well. o7
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Moochie Cricket
The Templis Dragonaurs
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:
Real strategy is adapting to the battlefield conditions, not a player list.
Know your enemy?
Yep. Get a spy in place or pay someone isk to divulge team composition rather than looking at a list. I feel this type of deception fits in nicely with the Eve mentality.
Caldari Tribute Montage
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Not allowing the list in pubs will not fix people leaving, it will result in people not playing.
People leave the battle because they get tired of pub stomps (or have some other issues, like the map etc.), or are pub stompers and don't want a fair fight.
I greatly dislike the idea of leaving battle. I never do it unless I am in a squad and someone in squad got Scotty'd out of a match. But this is not the answer, if anything, it will further erode player population.
First of all, removing the list will not fix some of the reasons people leave a game, like a match being already in progress, getting a certain map they hate, or losing a squad member to Scotty.
Second, for those problems you think it will fix, it won't. If people leave because they find the prospect of fighting the same squads repeatedly, and getting stomped repeatedly, frustrating and not fun, and you try and force them to play frustrating matches THEY WILL JUST LEAVE.
Not leave battle, leave the game.
I don't think reducing player numbers is a good way to fix the game at this point.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
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Posted - 2015.06.25 16:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
I'm up for removing player lists and kill feeds from PC and maybe FW.
But not for pubs.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Moochie Cricket wrote:I would even go as far as removing enemy names from the killfeed.
PC should be hard. It is too easy to figure out an opposing teams strategy just by who they bring in. It would add a whole new dimension of strategy and deception. Imagine coming across an enemy and not knowing whether it is Kalente or King Thunderbolt, or if you are even going up against a full 16. Maybe they only sent 10 B team mercs in to make noise and keep you at that district while the A team hits the real target. You would never know.
If you wanted to get crazy, maybe incorporate raiding districts with rewards granting you the intel? We have actually discussed this, even for pubs. You can see the list after the match.
Yes for pub, no for everything else.
Besides, it's usually not at the start of the match where everyone leaves but somewhere between the start of it and the middle of it. And why don't you know, like maybe, try refilling battles??? Unless it's already halfway over.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.25 19:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me.
Universe forbid someone see things differently than Breakin. Else Breakin will be pretty much disgusted, and we'll all have to hear about it. CPM Material?
Always been my problem with him, you aren't right unless you full agree with his "assessment". Disagreeing with him leads to him instantly bashing you on how unreasonable you are and hiding it behind his "sarcasm".
Smart guy sure, has a lot of great ideas. Though he can't stand for any disagreements with his own thought process. He could add a lot to his discussions if he would drop the superiority complex and attempt to entertain the more reasonable among us.
In any case, it's not always because people are looking to "stomp" the other team so they leave to try to find one where they can. This thinking is so narrow minded and in the fluxin box it makes me sick.
NOBODY I run with backs out of a fight because we see a "challenge" on the other side. Most of the people I run with try hard it up 24/7, best gear and often less worried about KD and more about the point (unless it's bush then yes, KD is important for a win).
There have been a few instances that yes, we all backed out because someone didn't get in, we need to go pick someone else up, ect ect. There have been very FEW instances where we did back out of a stomp (only one comes to mind) in ambush. We had been so beat so hard, that when we saw basically the same team on the other side we left. A single squad can't win a match and I'm not going to bother with such a poorly balanced match.
Honestly, if people leave at the start of a game (often times what happens) is it really that hard to refill the match. It starts a cascading affect when a few people leave because the games typically NEVER refill so eventually it's usually just our squad against their 16.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.26 07:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:Maybe not PC and FW matches because people use actual, you know, strategies in those.
But for Pub matches I quite like the idea for the reason that Aeon mentioned. Stops people checking out the player list and deciding it'll easy or hard and promptly sodding off if its the latter. I could definitely get behind removing the player list from pubs. Would you also advocate removing player names from the killfeed in pubs? It gives you the same info eventually if you are paying attention. As for using strategy in PC or FW, this proposed change would only shift the prematch gameplan to a more reactive strategy during the actual battle. FCs would need to make sure they build a versatile team of 16 able to respond to any challenge rather than spamming "x". Feints during mass attacks could actually succeed since you wouldnt be able to send one person to every district under attack just to see where the main enemy force will show up.
I'd get behind kill feed removal from Pubs.
But like I said, PC and FW should remain as it.
CPM 2 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.26 10:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Hey tebu.
My accusation only applies when I see six names leave the battle, all from the same corp.
I see this a lot, usually against squads you and your buddies run, or when N-F or O.H. are in play.
When you see five bodies from the same corp drop? That's actually fairly uncommon. And that fits the pattern you describe, leaving the battle to grab a teammate. Especially since on more than one occasion I see the same five names plus 1 pulled right back into the match 30-60 seconds later. Usually after another 3-5 morons bug out and then they stay.
Most of the dropouts are... singletons. No corp affiliation. Between 2 and 4 at a time on average. Believe it or not I pay attention and I watch for patterns.
But scotty screwups are not so common that it accounts for more than a fraction of mass-abandonments.
I pays attention to what goes on believe it or not.
Why in the flaming ever - living hell do you think I don't name names? I could absolutely say that "I saw tebu gan runnin from teh matchez! He afraid of fire!" But its BS.
I speak in generalization because for the most part, the evidence holds up to scrutiny. I avoid naming names because there are exceptions to the rule.
And when I see five leave and come back with six? That means there's more than "just b*tching out."
But in the vast majority of mass abandonnments of games? The theory holds up to scrutiny.
And you never give credence to a damn word I say, why should I extend you a courtesy you refuse to give?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
481
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Posted - 2015.06.26 13:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
This whole thread, save for the OP and rattati's response pretty much disgusts me.
Universe forbid someone see things differently than Breakin. Else Breakin will be pretty much disgusted, and we'll all have to hear about it. CPM Material? I can contribute from a cpm seat or the floor. I don't feel like candy coating my opinions in the blind hope of becoming more popular. People who agree with me might vote for me, but I'm not going to backpedal because you invoked an election I might lose. I wouldn't expect you to backpedal, Breakin. But I would expect you to at least try to have an open mind when interacting with the community. Given the job description, and all. There's a good chance you might win.
There would be some merit to all this coddling that you and others desire if the issues weren't compounded after I am supposedly matched up against veteran players.
The issues plaguing pub matches at the moment aren't from poor, helpless new players. Those dudes running to the hills with sniper rifles are veteran players. Those guys dropping links on top of 200m towers for people to inertia dampen to their slaughter, veterans. Those dudes who stop pushing after two clones at the objective, veterans.
Something has to change. We have matchmaking and from what I can tell it does match up veterans with veterans for the most part. From that point, what do you do? Should we remove all the objectives and put big sandbox toys in the middle of the maps for everyone to build sand castles? |
Dragonmeballs
Better Hide R Die
95
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Posted - 2015.06.26 17:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
"There would be some merit to all this coddling that you and others desire if the issues weren't compounded after I am supposedly matched up against veteran players.
The issues plaguing pub matches at the moment aren't from poor, helpless new players. Those dudes running to the hills with sniper rifles are veteran players. Those guys dropping links on top of 200m towers for people to inertia dampen to their slaughter, veterans. Those dudes who stop pushing after two clones at the objective, veterans.
Something has to change. We have matchmaking and from what I can tell it does match up veterans with veterans for the most part. From that point, what do you do? Should we remove all the objectives and put big sandbox toys in the middle of the maps for everyone to build sand castles?"
I had assumed it was predominantly the newbs leaving but if the vets compose the bulk of the cowards then this might be FUBAR
Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
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Dragonmeballs
Better Hide R Die
95
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Posted - 2015.06.26 17:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Has anyone really established the reasons people leave matches other than technical issues or are we just all speculating?
Is there a forum thread that has actually made a list?
Is it possible to create some kind of poll and get some hard numbers?
I don't see how this can be addressed without....you know...data.
Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.26 21:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Hey tebu.
My accusation only applies when I see six names leave the battle, all from the same corp.
I see this a lot, usually against squads you and your buddies run, or when N-F or O.H. are in play.
When you see five bodies from the same corp drop? That's actually fairly uncommon. And that fits the pattern you describe, leaving the battle to grab a teammate. Especially since on more than one occasion I see the same five names plus 1 pulled right back into the match 30-60 seconds later. Usually after another 3-5 morons bug out and then they stay.
Most of the dropouts are... singletons. No corp affiliation. Between 2 and 4 at a time on average. Believe it or not I pay attention and I watch for patterns.
But scotty screwups are not so common that it accounts for more than a fraction of mass-abandonments.
I pays attention to what goes on believe it or not.
Why in the flaming ever - living hell do you think I don't name names? I could absolutely say that "I saw tebu gan runnin from teh matchez! He afraid of fire!" But its BS.
I speak in generalization because for the most part, the evidence holds up to scrutiny. I avoid naming names because there are exceptions to the rule.
And when I see five leave and come back with six? That means there's more than "just b*tching out."
But in the vast majority of mass abandonnments of games? The theory holds up to scrutiny.
And you never give credence to a damn word I say, why should I extend you a courtesy you refuse to give?
Then why assume that everyone that leaves, does so because they want to stomp? A broad generalization, that I think misses the point. And any fix, with that in mind, won't fix the heart of the issue.
The reasons for leaving are varied and many and not always due to people pandering to their KD/R. I myself have left matches, that were complete and utter stomps, or one sided enough that my only option is go suicide and hope for a kill. The one option not available is win the match, which in the end, is my main goal in the first place. Generally it is, though not always of course.
Matching players according to skill levels is one thing. But creating well balanced teams in terms of roles and gears is another. There is a reason PC tends to be incredibly close and it's due to the fact that roles (logi's, heavies, ect) are balanced to what we need to put up a good fight. Same for the other team. Not to mention everyone pulling their weight and not goofing off.
In a pub match you have none of this, so the nature of the beast that is a pub can never really be balanced. So you get lopsided matches you can't hope to win. Say we have 3 or 4 snipers, 2 sitting on redline turrets, 8 heavies, whatever. If the other team has their roles more balanced than my own teams, a loss is highly likely.
If our team is running MLT or STD gear to conserve money, and the other team is throwing around proto, a loss is very likely to occur. Fact of the matter is I will NOT stick out a broken, lopsided, stomp of a match, just because people want a full 16. We never started out with a full 16 or a chance for that matter.
My time is limited and valuable, and if I feel the need to leave for the hope of a better match next round I will. And I didn't do it for my "precious" KDR. Sure I could "stick it out" and lose the match, or sit in the redline, or even throw myself at the enemy for no good reason but to "kill a proto suit to make myself feel better" ( I won't btw), yet none of these options are in the least bit fun.
That's why I enjoy PC so much, for a good fight. I'll leave a pub in a heart beat for a PC match. I'm playing to have fun. And it isn't fun playing a lost cause. Full 16 or not, stomps aren't enjoyable and attempting to force people to stick with a lost cause is wrong and WILL drive people away.
BTW, I have gave credence to things you say. Yet every time I've ever entertained a notion counter to what you believe, it's instantly me that isn't listening. I personally don't mind disagreeing with someone, what I do mind is someone disagreeing in a manner uncivil, aimed to break and hurt a person because they hold they are more right and intelligent than the rest of the community.
The very first time I EVER posted on one of your postings, you bashed and berated me for having an opinion contrary. All because I had an opinion on the situation that differed from your own. Nothing in my response to your post was negative or wrote in such a way to convey negativity. Yet you felt it necessary to tell me that I'M not listening. I'm sorry, I was and conveying the situation as I saw it.
Though clearly, your depictions are the only "right" ones.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
9
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Posted - 2015.06.26 23:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Uh huh. seems we both have a difference of opinion there. Fuggit. I'm not having this argument here.
But bluntly I do believe it was said best a few posts up.
It's not the newbs that are backing out. If it were newbies? I could understand it.
But most newbies aren't looking at the killboard as an intel tool.
I sure as hell don't look at it, as I only nominally see a difference between shooting miscellaneous randoms, or shooting at Kane and his packs of rowdies.
I occasionally glance up at the killfeed when I die to see if it was anyone I know.
But there's far, far too much leaving for this to be "scotty" every single time.
And far too many people who are willing to cop to "welp, not fighting them. Peace."
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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