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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.22 04:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hide the other team's character names.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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Aiden Solferrous
IRON SUNS
9
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Posted - 2015.06.22 04:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
From people I've talked too its mainly seeing a group stacked from 1 corp or just 2 corps on the opposing side. Once they see that they leave because they know the enemy is going to be more organised and usually more advanced then their own team of randoms. |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 05:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
You could also include an AUR option to see this dossier/info. 
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2015.06.22 06:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Hide the other team's character names.
Not really fond of that idea, sorry.
There must be another way, either with a carrot or stick (or both).
We are already hiding enough information as it is. |
Krixus Flux
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
775
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 06:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nahhh
"Quick! Arm the desperation torpedoes!!".
My hope rests in tiercide.
Saying what's on people's minds
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2015.06.22 11:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Hide the other team's character names.
If you do that then people will still leave when the scoreboard swings massively against them, so what then, do we just hide the scoreboard? No, the idea is unworkable, if you hide the names then do you hide the k/d/WP of the enemy? You don't need the names.
The problem with a game where you actually have stuff to lose is that people want to protect the stuff they have to lose. Why would someone want to sit their in equipment that could have cost them a lot of isk to get killed over and over again for the losers isk payout at the end.
You can't stop people leaving in a game that has something to lose, barring actually stopping them leaving and you can't do that. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.22 12:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
If Scotty must serve low-quality matches, adjusting pay scales would be the very best way to keep players playing.
As a given lobby's Mu disparity increases, the underdog SP / Isk multiplier increases. The steeper the odds are against you, the more you get paid at the end of the match. Once it is worthwhile to do so, more players will stick it out and fight through the low-quality matches.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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V1RONXSS
X-SENSE Security
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 12:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or make matchmaking completely random, because any logic ccp trying to implement just not working at all..
And maybe a game mode without proto so "they" don't wine and be stomped by millitia/bpo fits instead lol
The "Chiki Briki v Damki" Starter Pack.
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Sergeant Sazu
Mantodea MC
594
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 12:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
The best solution is to incentivize intermediate players such as myself to throw proto at a stompsquad. Right now there is too much inertia when someone starts winning because of financial worries and/or demoralization of the losing side.
Also, I think doing something with Gallogi permascans would help. But that's another subject.
[61.7m SP - Next skill: Flaylock Pistol Op. 5]
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jordy mack
WarRavens
554
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 13:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
if the reds control all points for more than x amount of time, the defending faction starts dropping supplies. free vehicles? isk drops?
or...
the winning teams top x players are offered a bribe to switch sides midmatch.
:)
Less QQ more PewPew
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LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
207
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Posted - 2015.06.22 16:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
jordy mack wrote:if the reds control all points for more than x amount of time, the defending faction starts dropping supplies. free vehicles? isk drops?
or...
the winning teams top x players are offered a bribe to switch sides midmatch.
:)
This is diabolical, I love it
CEO of LulKlz/ chat channel LulKlz, code 0000 <--- numbers
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MrCriminal High Power
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 19:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
No.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
El Diablo 666
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demens grimwulff
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
461
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 19:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Regardless of the discussion on whether match making is broken or not, no one can argue that 90+% of the time that matchmaker puts you in something, the sides are uneven and the match outcome is already pre-determined.
As the archeology of our thought easily shows, man is an invention of recent date. And one perhaps nearing its end
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MrCriminal High Power
50
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Posted - 2015.06.22 19:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
demens grimwulff wrote:Regardless of the discussion on whether match making is broken or not, no one can argue that 90+% of the time that matchmaker puts you in something, the sides are uneven and the match outcome is already pre-determined.
This.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
El Diablo 666
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.06.22 19:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Hide the other team's character names.
Erm no. Now go back into your hole before i need to whack you.
Rudimentary Mercs of scrubs and incompetence. You touch my mind, fumbling in Ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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deezy dabest
2
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Posted - 2015.06.22 19:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:If Scotty must serve low-quality matches, adjusting pay scales would be the very best way to keep players playing.
As a given lobby's Mu disparity increases, the underdog SP / Isk multiplier increases. The steeper the odds are against you, the more you get paid at the end of the match. Once it is worthwhile to do so, more players will stick it out and fight through the low-quality matches.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=205813&find=unread
Exactly what I have been trying to say but no one seems to be able to wrap their head around the difference between buffing payouts and creating a payout system meant to drive good matches no matter how bad Scotty has been hit in the head. |
Aidualc
LATINOS KILLERS CORP
RUST415
333
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 20:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
It's easy... player who leave the battle... The Concord fine there with 2% of there total ISK... so.. If you have only 10M ISK ... Concord Takes you 200,000 ISK ... but if you have more that 100M ISK well.. the fine will be loosing almost 2,000,000 ISK...
Only applies if the player leve the battle by Menu option... (as a coward)
-- Ecce Initio -- Tomate Pote --
**Respectu, Honorem, Value, Unionem****
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MrCriminal High Power
50
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Posted - 2015.06.22 21:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ha no.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
El Diablo 666
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Dragonmeballs
Better Hide R Die
88
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Posted - 2015.06.22 22:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
demens grimwulff wrote:Regardless of the discussion on whether match making is broken or not, no one can argue that 90+% of the time that matchmaker puts you in something, the sides are uneven and the match outcome is already pre-determined.
And this is the great fallacy that has corrupted the playerbase.... (I'm not picking on you demens just the sentiment you expressed)
"There are 10 players on my side and 13 on theirs. We are so screwed. Lets bail. "
Initial conditions (before the match began and anybody dropped to the ground) were even based on the Mu sum of each of the teams.
That last part is the most important part. An equal Mu sum total may require one team to be larger than the other to balance the equation.
Get it?
The equation does not care about the disparity of the player count because it attempts to predict a balanced match based on the factors it incorporates.
What people do when they hit the ground is entirely up to skill, luck and.....and overall attitude!
If one gets caught up in "how many more guys do they have?" you are done before your second spawn.
I was in a Dom last night where we had them by 4 players (16-10). That is 25% advantage according to those who don't understand matchmaking. It was the hardest fight of the night and it didn't go our way for 1/3 of the match. Nobody from either team was out hacking crap or joy riding in a tank as we had a real fight on our hands. We ended the match with only 14 clones but won on MCC armor. 10 mercs almost beat 16. That might seem a bit messed up to some of you but that is exactly what you should expect when random veteran players stay focused and keep their heads.
As a note to CCP: Perhaps a way to soften this whole thing is to add another factor in the equation that restricts the max difference between teams to 2 players.
This won't fix the stomps but it will make the players "feel" like they are getting a fair shake at the start of the match.
Blueberry!....Make yourself useful and shoot the blurry thing running this way!
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Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.06.22 23:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
A lot of people that leave are often the side that will most assuredly lose. So: Make it so losing sucks less. Make it so risking your hide in a stompfest does more than feed WP and ISK to those doing the stomping. Make it so losers and victims of stomps/bad matchmaking have cause to stay and fight it out (besides the laughable notion of "e-honor").
Oh, wait. Doing that could actually fix a problem. Can't have that. Better to pretend to fix a problem by altering things that have little to do with the actual problem.
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.22 23:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:Make it so risking your hide in a stompfest does more than feed WP and ISK to those doing the stomping. Make it so losers and victims of stomps/bad matchmaking have cause to stay and fight it out (besides the laughable notion of "e-honor").
^
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 23:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Getting people to stay in matches requires the carrot, not the stick.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Mex-0
Corrosive Synergy
720
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 23:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
As much as I resent the idea of dust turning into a CSGO ripoff... maybe we could give a penalty for leaving a match?
If I insult you in some way, it's probably by accident.
probably.
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Kinky Fat Bastard
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 00:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dragonmeballs wrote:demens grimwulff wrote:Regardless of the discussion on whether match making is broken or not, no one can argue that 90+% of the time that matchmaker puts you in something, the sides are uneven and the match outcome is already pre-determined. And this is the great fallacy that has corrupted the playerbase.... (I'm not picking on you demens just the sentiment you expressed) "There are 10 players on my side and 13 on theirs. We are so screwed. Lets bail. " Initial conditions (before the match began and anybody dropped to the ground) were even based on the Mu sum of each of the teams. That last part is the most important part. An equal Mu sum total may require one team to be larger than the other to balance the equation. Get it?The equation does not care about the disparity of the player count because it attempts to predict a balanced match based on the factors it incorporates. What people do when they hit the ground is entirely up to skill, luck and.....and overall attitude! If one gets caught up in "how many more guys do they have?" you are done before your second spawn. I was in a Dom last night where we had them by 4 players (16-10). That is 25% advantage according to those who don't understand matchmaking. It was the hardest fight of the night and it didn't go our way for 1/3 of the match. Nobody from either team was out hacking crap or joy riding in a tank as we had a real fight on our hands. We ended the match with only 14 clones but won on MCC armor. 10 mercs almost beat 16. That might seem a bit messed up to some of you but that is exactly what you should expect when random veteran players stay focused and keep their heads. As a note to CCP: Perhaps a way to soften this whole thing is to add another factor in the equation that restricts the max difference between teams to 2 players. This won't fix the stomps but it will make the players "feel" like they are getting a fair shake at the start of the match.
So, you're a noob, with a 16 man team full of noobs and you got your butts kicked by a 10 man team of vets....
Kinda like he said, foregone conclusion...
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Panthrax Oblivion
228
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Posted - 2015.06.23 00:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
I have a solution!
Just play faction warfare. When one leaves, one joines
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Turbo controller sissies
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Aiden Solferrous
IRON SUNS
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 00:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mex-0 wrote:As much as I resent the idea of dust turning into a CSGO ripoff... maybe we could give a penalty for leaving a match?
The problem is with as small of a community you have here, as soon as you punish people for leaving a match that might be because job,power out, disconnect, family, school, food, bathroom, e.c.t., along with people not wanting to go into a match with a full corp or two on the other side. They will just not play and this already small group will be even smaller.
Mina Longstrike wrote:Getting people to stay in matches requires the carrot, not the stick.
This is exactly what should be discussed. Incentivising the people to stay for other reasons then just "you should or punishment". Others have said this better than me I'm just reinforcing it. |
Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact
Back and Forth
8
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Posted - 2015.06.23 00:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
that fixs the problem for about 2 minutes...
Vote Viktor Hadah for CPM2 or i'll hurt you.
CBM In the CPM
Get Dust ISK Here
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Aiden Solferrous
IRON SUNS
16
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Posted - 2015.06.23 00:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Then what do you suggest? |
Kinky Fat Bastard
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
29
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Posted - 2015.06.23 00:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aiden Solferrous wrote:Then what do you suggest?
I suggest you stop caring about it. |
Aiden Solferrous
IRON SUNS
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 00:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Kinky Fat Bastard wrote:
I suggest you stop caring about it.
Ignoring a community concern solves nothing, as your statement did nothing to help the conversation. |
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Kinky Fat Bastard
OMFGZOMBIESRUN
29
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Posted - 2015.06.23 00:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Aiden Solferrous wrote:Kinky Fat Bastard wrote:
I suggest you stop caring about it.
Ignoring a community concern solves nothing, as your statement did nothing to help the conversation.
You should stop caring about it because it doesn't really matter, its of little consequence.
I play the same game as you, run proto, run solo. Don't care which side I'm on, I'll kill what I can. A full team of useless scrubs is worse than half a team of decent players.
I've been playing 3? times longer than you (if that's your main) sometimes the odds are against you.
Htfu
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Aiden Solferrous
IRON SUNS
18
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Posted - 2015.06.23 01:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kinky Fat Bastard wrote:
I play the same game as you, run proto, run solo. Don't care which side I'm on, I'll kill what I can. A full team of useless scrubs is worse than half a team of decent players.
I've been playing 3? times longer than you (if that's your main) sometimes the odds are against you.
Htfu
Your ignoring the point but that's ok. You assume you've been on here longer then me which doesn't mean anything if true or not. I don't care about the odds I care about this subject matter of increasing the player base if by some small means. True new players aren't as good as a team of vets but when you want to encourage growth in the game you can't think small. I don't think I need to continue since my point is made.
And to your statement of htfu I say lolz to you sir just lozl  |
Milita Mable
Quafe Milita
2
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Posted - 2015.06.23 01:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
High Sec, Lo Sec, Null Sec.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
7
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Posted - 2015.06.23 02:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
Krixus Flux wrote:Nahhh
"Quick! Arm the desperation torpedoes!!".
My hope rests in tiercide.
Can't wait. I'll be able to put more militia BPOs on my BPO fits!
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 02:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aiden Solferrous wrote:From people I've talked too its mainly seeing a group stacked from 1 corp or just 2 corps on the opposing side. Once they see that they leave because they know the enemy is going to be more organised and usually more advanced then their own team of randoms.
Back in the day that put a big target on your back if you were the most respected corp in the match. People would come out swinging in proto because they knew they were in for a fight. But that was before 80% or more of the playerbase was solo all the time in crappy suits.
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 02:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
I was in consecutive FW matches last night where my Negative Feedback squad and Outer Heaven's squad were team killing each other while capturing points and killing the enemy. Consecutive redline matches, complete stomps.
This isn't a vet problem. People aren't even trying. In some matches a single tank can completely redline a team. They just simply can't be bothered with AV. The 4 snipers somehow can't see the 7 dudes on the pipes camping, not sure what those guys are looking for. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.23 02:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Kinky Fat Bastard wrote:
Htfu
That sentiment hasn't exactly worked very well for us. So far, at least.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 03:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:If Scotty must serve low-quality matches, adjusting pay scales would be the very best way to keep players playing.
As a given lobby's Mu disparity increases, the underdog SP / Isk multiplier increases. The steeper the odds are against you, the more you get paid at the end of the match. Once it is worthwhile to do so, more players will stick it out and fight through the low-quality matches.
Hell yeah, exactly the sort of solutions I'm looking for. +1 and posted in the OP.
This as well.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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JARREL THOMAS
Dead Man's Game
737
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Hide the other team's character names. Not really fond of that idea, sorry. There must be another way, either with a carrot or stick (or both). We are already hiding enough information as it is.
Yea but this isn't needed
Caldari Loyalist. ( -í° -£-û -í°) They see me rollin they Hating (..) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (..)
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able!
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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MrCriminal High Power
51
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able!
Coming from a guy who proto stomps with his corp 24/7.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
El Diablo 666
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
MrCriminal High Power wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able! Coming from a guy who proto stomps with his corp 24/7.
Coming from a guy who has obviously never played with/against me. I run bpos mostly homeboy.
I have been waiting for a chance to also tell you, your name is stupid, and it bothers me.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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MrCriminal High Power
51
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:MrCriminal High Power wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able! Coming from a guy who proto stomps with his corp 24/7. Coming from a guy who has obviously never played with/against me. I run bpos mostly homeboy. I have been waiting for a chance to also tell you, your name is stupid, and it bothers me.
Lol I know TR for a fact proto stomps cause I use to be in TR.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
El Diablo 666
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:52:00 -
[44] - Quote
MrCriminal High Power wrote:Reign Omega wrote:MrCriminal High Power wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able! Coming from a guy who proto stomps with his corp 24/7. Coming from a guy who has obviously never played with/against me. I run bpos mostly homeboy. I have been waiting for a chance to also tell you, your name is stupid, and it bothers me. Lol I know TR for a fact proto stomps cause I use to be in TR.
Ah I can neither confirm or deny, I dont run much with corp, usually only Gucci and Hateskull. Gucci just stomps, no proto, and hateskull....well he hates on things? We're not as organized as people like to think lll
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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MrCriminal High Power
51
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Posted - 2015.06.23 03:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:MrCriminal High Power wrote:Reign Omega wrote:MrCriminal High Power wrote:Reign Omega wrote:Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able! Coming from a guy who proto stomps with his corp 24/7. Coming from a guy who has obviously never played with/against me. I run bpos mostly homeboy. I have been waiting for a chance to also tell you, your name is stupid, and it bothers me. Lol I know TR for a fact proto stomps cause I use to be in TR. Ah I can neither confirm or deny, I dont run much with corp, usually only Gucci and Hateskull. Gucci just stomps, no proto, and hateskull....well he hates on things? We're not as organized as people like to think lll
Well then I'm done here for tonight. o7
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ¤.°n+ín+ƒGÿåGùÅ°.LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
El Diablo 666
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General John Ripper
27
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:01:00 -
[46] - Quote
An interesting and possibly effective solution that I would never have proposed. I am against the nerfing of information but I am also FOR and AGAINST alot of things that most of the community does not agree with. Of course I also think so little of the community that I regard them as unskilled, selfish, whiners who rather quit than do their best all the time.
Maybe it is time I stop thinking about what I think would be best for a fun competitive game for me, and look for a solution to appease these scrubs. heck it might even make for an even more fun game if I stop thinking so selfishly. I am not even being sarcastic. The only reason this idea is a good one is because the community is just so bad in attitude. Nobody wants to try and put forth effort. If the odds are slightly against their favor they will give up. Do these scrubs have any clue how many times I went 1 vs 6 and won?? How many times I soloed objectives??? Do they realize that the only reason I can be so cocky is because I never gave up??
Sadly I cannot have such high expectations for this community. maybe such high expectations works on myself and improving my gameplay but it is not for everyone. +1 for this idea, not because I like it but because I have such little respect for a bad community.
Regnyum for CPM. He will bang your wife, He will eat your children. He will save DUST%!$.
GreatestCPMOFAllTime
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Immortal John Ripper
27
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
An interesting and possibly effective solution that I would never have proposed. I am against the nerfing of information but I am also FOR and AGAINST alot of things that most of the community does not agree with. Of course I also think so little of the community that I regard them as unskilled, selfish, whiners who rather quit than do their best all the time.
Maybe it is time I stop thinking about what I think would be best for a fun competitive game for me, and look for a solution to appease these scrubs. heck it might even make for an even more fun game if I stop thinking so selfishly. I am not even being sarcastic. The only reason this idea is a good one is because the community is just so bad in attitude. Nobody wants to try and put forth effort. If the odds are slightly against their favor they will give up. Do these scrubs have any clue how many times I went 1 vs 6 and won?? How many times I soloed objectives??? Do they realize that the only reason I can be so cocky is because I never gave up??
Sadly I cannot have such high expectations for this community. maybe such high expectations works on myself and improving my gameplay but it is not for everyone. +1 for this idea, not because I like it but because I have such little respect for a bad community.
Regnyum for CPM. He will bang your wife, He will eat your children. He will save DUST%!$.
GreatestCPMOFAllTime
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thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
461
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Posted - 2015.06.23 04:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:A lot of people that leave are often the side that will most assuredly lose. So: Make it so losing sucks less. Make it so risking your hide in a stompfest does more than feed WP and ISK to those doing the stomping. Make it so losers and victims of stomps/bad matchmaking have cause to stay and fight it out (besides the laughable notion of "e-honor").
Oh, wait. Doing that could actually fix a problem. Can't have that. Better to pretend to fix a problem by altering things that have little to do with the actual problem.
Payouts should be buffed across the board.
Being in a squad should grant some additional bonus. Just for those too stupid to realize their repeated stompings have something to do with running solo and hacking 4 installations before going near an objective. |
thor424
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
461
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 04:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
Immortal John Ripper wrote:An interesting and possibly effective solution that I would never have proposed. I am against the nerfing of information but I am also FOR and AGAINST alot of things that most of the community does not agree with. Of course I also think so little of the community that I regard them as unskilled, selfish, whiners who rather quit than do their best all the time.
Maybe it is time I stop thinking about what I think would be best for a fun competitive game for me, and look for a solution to appease these scrubs. heck it might even make for an even more fun game if I stop thinking so selfishly. I am not even being sarcastic. The only reason this idea is a good one is because the community is just so bad in attitude. Nobody wants to try and put forth effort. If the odds are slightly against their favor they will give up. Do these scrubs have any clue how many times I went 1 vs 6 and won?? How many times I soloed objectives??? Do they realize that the only reason I can be so cocky is because I never gave up??
Sadly I cannot have such high expectations for this community. maybe such high expectations works on myself and improving my gameplay but it is not for everyone. +1 for this idea, not because I like it but because I have such little respect for a bad community.
People think sniping is effective. They really think that they are doing some good. Once you realize that it really puts the current situation into perspective. |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
I punitive timer would really hurt this game.
Match leaving can't be completely fixed as long as teams are so frequently mis-matched.
A lot of vets forget what it's like to be new. Some people turn Dust on and just want to play pubs and have fun, while full squads of protostompers ruin that experience.
I never leave battles, but not everyone is rich enough to run proto forever.
It would be a pretty big slap in the face for a player who has already decided this game is not going to be enjoyable enough to play, and then force them to stare at an (increasingly long) penalty timer.
I couldn't think of a better way to drive away what's left of our player base.
Pending better balance and matchmaking, a much better idea for this problem is to reward players who routinely stick it through to the end
Official CPM Platform
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control
Otherworld Empire Productions
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 16:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Don't allow squads in public matches would lessen a lot of leavers I'm sure.
Just seeing tons of people from the same corp on the other team and randoms on mine usually makes my initial thought that this is a match that will be lost.
/c
DUSTBoard
DUST Server Status
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
3
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
The only time I leave a match is because I have to go do something in the real world...... or the occasional rage quit (Won't lie, it does happen from time to time)
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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maybe deadcatz
Horizons' Edge
No Context
208
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:10:00 -
[53] - Quote
what about that thing from cod? where if you leave too many matches in a row you have to wait to join another match? the times get longer as you leave more matches
Ewar? What's that? Some kind of new crutch? Learn how to use your eyes and ears you maggots. Batteskirts for the win!!
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
RUST415
1
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Dragonmeballs wrote:demens grimwulff wrote:Regardless of the discussion on whether match making is broken or not, no one can argue that 90+% of the time that matchmaker puts you in something, the sides are uneven and the match outcome is already pre-determined. And this is the great fallacy that has corrupted the playerbase.... (I'm not picking on you demens just the sentiment you expressed) "There are 10 players on my side and 13 on theirs. We are so screwed. Lets bail. " Initial conditions (before the match began and anybody dropped to the ground) were even based on the Mu sum of each of the teams. That last part is the most important part. An equal Mu sum total may require one team to be larger than the other to balance the equation.
That's not how that works.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
Have a pony
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Edgar Reinhart
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
EDIT: Sorry it's a wall of text..... didn't seem that long when I was typing! There is a sort of idea based around meta levels nearer the bottom but I'm not sure it's worth it!!!
As someone who still really only runs Starter Fits I have definitely been guilty of both AFKing 5mins into a match when already 5 capped and flat out leaving when I've seen the team sheet come up (There's only so many times in a night you can face a full Carne Con Papas, Negative Feedback stomp sync) and I accept the abuse and team kills it gets me in FW.
And that's part of the problem the player base is small enough that it doesn't take long to know who you're up against, who they'll be squadded with and how they're going to go about having you redlined in 5 mins.
There are also two problems to deal with. One is that people who can run proto give up and don't keep pushing because they can't out spend the opposition (an unfortunate hangover from PC as, I believe, ideally it should be very very difficult to finance running proto in pubs at all times. The trouble now is that some people can, and then some, so is it unfair if not everyone can? Hence calls to buff payouts).
The second problem is for people like me when it becomes apparent that there is actually no point in pushing, trying or doing anything other than run into a wall for 5 mins and make a cup of tea because anything you do you'll either be on your own or hunted down within seconds and one shotted by a Viziam or Kaalakiota. As much as people cry about not trying how much use to your team are you actually going 1/10 with 75WP?
Saying that I don't mind being cannon fodder IF THE MATCH IS EXCITING and there is a chance to turn the other team over, but I'm not going to simply be there to pad someones KD. Starting a match with two big corps on either team only for one to back out at the start is really irritating because it has potentially denied a whole bunch of people a good match to be involved in.
Having come up out of the lower tier of match making into the higher one a couple of times now it's a sad truth that the lower tier matches do seem better, more exciting, varied and dynamic...... and that's not just because my KD improved.
These frustrations are currently multiplied as I'm trying to grind LP (this is my own fault though not match making etc)
It'd be a shame if proto was removed from pubs (not that I have any yet), even if it's only because it adds to the variety and requirements to be aware of what's going on around you. Also most of the people who have it have earned it, invested in it, paid for it etc etc, and apparently even stomping like mad it's tricky to make enough ISK in pubs to fuel the proto habit (for some).
If meta levels come in I'd probably like to see a dynamic balance around them on a per match basis. Rather than just lock people using a certain meta out of pubs I'd like people to be able to run whatever they want but their meta level to be taken into account at the end of the match.
Now I know people are going to point out how open to abuse this probably is and how bad idea is bad but....
The oppositions average meta level, possibly based on everybody's preferred suit or simply on the highest meta level each person ran, could be calculated at the end of the match and then people get a multiplier on their WP or SP or ISK based on if their meta level was above or below that average.
Everybody on the opposition only in Milita and your out in a maxed out mk.0 assault?
Fine you can get your 40/1 KD but you're going to be getting an eg. -25% multiplier to your EOM WP/SP/ISK whichever whereas the guy on your team who also only showed up in Militia Gear will be getting a +/-0% multiplier meaning they may come away with as much of a payment as you.
Then because you've dragged your sides meta level up above the oppositions most of them will get an e.g +10% multiplier on their results. For them 1 or 2 kills could be worth as much in terms of WP/SP/ISK as 4/5 of yours.
or something like that. It's similar to the idea that if you kill a higher tier suit you get more WP than if you kill a lower tier one but team rather than individual based.
Maybe. |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.23 18:37:00 -
[56] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:I punitive timer would really hurt this game. Match leaving can't be completely fixed as long as teams are so frequently mis-matched. A lot of vets forget what it's like to be new. Some people turn Dust on and just want to play pubs and have fun, while full squads of protostompers ruin that experience. I never leave battles, but not everyone is rich enough to run proto forever. It would be a pretty big slap in the face for a player who has already decided this game is not going to be enjoyable enough to play, and then force them to stare at an (increasingly long) penalty timer. I couldn't think of a better way to drive away what's left of our player base. Pending better balance and matchmaking, a much better idea for this problem is to reward players who routinely stick it through to the end
I really don't think adding an artificial number system with which to guilt players that they have little to no control over is in the best interests of either the game or the community, especially one that can be so easily abused for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with match-making considering that it isn't even done after the fact.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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William Harold
highland marines
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 11:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
I find it funny that it's a proto-stomping Negative Feedback member to suggest additional penalties against those who wanted to get away from the proto-stomping (pubs and [M]FW) because it's just not feasible to play against it... and a waste of ISK with any modified free suit (rookie suits). Or, you die over and over again in said rookie suit.
But, I digress.
"Your penis just got fluxed." - Unholy Hategore
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
William Harold wrote:I find it funny that it's a proto-stomping Negative Feedback member to suggest additional penalties against those who wanted to get away from the proto-stomping (pubs and [M]FW) because it's just not feasible to play against it... and a waste of ISK with any modified free suit (rookie suits). Or, you die over and over again in said rookie suit.
But, I digress.
Lol. Proto-stomping is a consequence of fundamentally broken design, not a consequence of a player not having enough e-bushido to run militia against every player the match-maker pits against him. Acting as though my argument is invalid and that it is wrong for me to want a good fight, instead of fighting against a team of 2-6 people, because I run the best gear that I can applicably afford and have worked for over the course of three years... Is like saying that I shouldn't use every available advantage afforded to me by game design because it is unfair for the other guy.
If you want to stop proto-stomping, join me in the constant fight for tiercide. Join me in wanting a better match-maker overall. Join me in wanting better performance.
Or you can sit there and constantly confuse the issue with players doing exactly what the game allows and intends for them to do.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
William Harold wrote:I find it funny that it's a proto-stomping Negative Feedback member to suggest additional penalties against those who wanted to get away from the proto-stomping (pubs and [M]FW) because it's just not feasible to play against it... and a waste of ISK with any modified free suit (rookie suits). Or, you die over and over again in said rookie suit.
But, I digress.
One reason people leave battle is the one you mention here.
But I think you're not considering another: people don't even bother to find out if they're not gonna enjoy the battle, they just leave based on corp squads in the list of names. Some battles where I looked at the merc list at the start and thought "ugh this might be tough" have been great fun.
And when I'm getting owned....it's not always proto on the death screen. The attitude I have that made me hang around to find that out is something that is probably dying out. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
2
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:If Scotty must serve low-quality matches, adjusting pay scales would be the very best way to keep players playing.
As a given lobby's Mu disparity increases, the underdog SP / Isk multiplier increases. The steeper the odds are against you, the more you get paid at the end of the match. Once it is worthwhile to do so, more players will stick it out and fight through the low-quality matches.
Great idea. In addition, if this was applied dynamically throughout a match, it could solve a possible problem where the mu disparity applied at the end of the match does not reflect the average.
Might it somehow be applied for each scoring action at the time of the action? And to encourage mercs to stay...should there be a visual indication somewhere of the current multiplier?
That feels like it's overcomplicating things, but what if you're on the "stomp team" and enough stompees leave before the end for the *stomp* team to gain a multiplier? Or perhaps it should only apply to the losers?
Reign Omega wrote:Leaving a fight because of the opposition is like seeing a big booty and declining because you dont think you can handle it. Man up, go in there and perform as poorly as you are able!
fkin ay - turn this thought into an implant and give it out for free. |
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 12:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:William Harold wrote:I find it funny that it's a proto-stomping Negative Feedback member to suggest additional penalties against those who wanted to get away from the proto-stomping (pubs and [M]FW) because it's just not feasible to play against it... and a waste of ISK with any modified free suit (rookie suits). Or, you die over and over again in said rookie suit.
But, I digress. One reason people leave battle is the one you mention here. But I think you're not considering another: people don't even bother to find out if they're not gonna enjoy the battle, they just leave based on corp squads in the list of names. Some battles where I looked at the merc list at the start and thought "ugh this might be tough" have been great fun. And when I'm getting owned....it's not always proto on the death screen. The attitude I have that made me hang around to find that out is something that is probably dying out.
I'm curious if that argument will still hold weight after power-cores are implemented. Or this 'limited tiercide' that will be introduced relatively soon, prior to the introduction of power-cores.
Afterall, the problem is the power-levels, the match maker, and what not. No-one has an issue with APEX suits running around so clearly there is some merit in all suits having the same number of slots. Will the 'Proto-stomping' argument still have the same weight when the only difference is PG/CPU? What about if we nyxxed the power-cores all together and everyone ran suits with the same slots, same PG/CPU, etc?
Then it will probably be 'Team-work' and 'High SP players'. You'll never stop a player from leaving a match they feel will be difficult, the reasons will always change.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:23:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Then it will probably be 'Team-work' and 'High SP players'. You'll never stop a player from leaving a match they feel will be difficult, the reasons will always change.
"Difficult" is not the same as "Worthwhile".
* Kill a merc in higher meta gear than yours, receive a small Isk bonus EOM.
* Kill a merc in substantially higher meta gear than yours, receive a substantial Isk bonus EOM.
If players were able to farm Isk off of protostompers, they'd begin to see protostomps as opportunities to make money (rather than opportunities to lose money). This would address one of the major reasons why players leave battle.
As for teamwork, it does become a 'bit much when 6 players on one side of a 12v12 fight have unlimited resources and are each pushing 100M SP. Reducing squad size to 4 would make stompsquads more vulnerable and, in turn, their victories less assured. Once players see that 100M SP vets bleed like everyone else, they'll be less likely to run away. And -- perhaps most importantly -- if the groupings of 6 vets were reduced to 4, Scotty would have a much easier time serving up good fights in the first place.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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Starlight Burner
Arrary of Clusters
285
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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Hide the other team's character names.
Hell no
CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation
Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today!
Thank you for DUST
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William Harold
highland marines
Evil Syndicate Alliance.
11
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Posted - 2015.06.24 14:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:William Harold wrote:I find it funny that it's a proto-stomping Negative Feedback member to suggest additional penalties against those who wanted to get away from the proto-stomping (pubs and [M]FW) because it's just not feasible to play against it... and a waste of ISK with any modified free suit (rookie suits). Or, you die over and over again in said rookie suit.
But, I digress. Lol. Proto-stomping is a consequence of fundamentally broken design, not a consequence of a player not having enough e-bushido to run militia against every player the match-maker pits against him. Acting as though my argument is invalid and that it is wrong for me to want a good fight, instead of fighting against a team of 2-6 people, because I run the best gear that I can applicably afford and have worked for over the course of three years... Is like saying that I shouldn't use every available advantage afforded to me by game design because it is unfair for the other guy. If you want to stop proto-stomping, join me in the constant fight for tiercide. Join me in wanting a better match-maker overall. Join me in wanting better performance. Or you can sit there and constantly confuse the issue with players doing exactly what the game allows and intends for them to do.
It isn't totally, but there's another aspect to it. Right now, there are complaints that people are leaving matches all the time and the only fix to this offered is timer penalties. Well, what happens if nobody cares about those penalties? Then you're left in the Warbarge against anybody on the other side entirely. Then those same people don't want to play DUST anymore at all because of said penalties. Attention spans are small. "Why should I stick around and play," they will ask themselves.
I never said you were wrong either. There are absolutely issues with tier-ing and matchmaking. Just as there is also the issue of proto-stomping right now, until said teircide gets fixed. It all really goes hand-in-hand, but the point is that timer penalties aren't the fix. We want DUST to stick around and not die due to the community leaving for the next best thing.
GG, by the way. =)
"Your penis just got fluxed." - Unholy Hategore
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Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 15:09:00 -
[65] - Quote
William Harold wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:William Harold wrote:I find it funny that it's a proto-stomping Negative Feedback member to suggest additional penalties against those who wanted to get away from the proto-stomping (pubs and [M]FW) because it's just not feasible to play against it... and a waste of ISK with any modified free suit (rookie suits). Or, you die over and over again in said rookie suit.
But, I digress. Lol. Proto-stomping is a consequence of fundamentally broken design, not a consequence of a player not having enough e-bushido to run militia against every player the match-maker pits against him. Acting as though my argument is invalid and that it is wrong for me to want a good fight, instead of fighting against a team of 2-6 people, because I run the best gear that I can applicably afford and have worked for over the course of three years... Is like saying that I shouldn't use every available advantage afforded to me by game design because it is unfair for the other guy. If you want to stop proto-stomping, join me in the constant fight for tiercide. Join me in wanting a better match-maker overall. Join me in wanting better performance. Or you can sit there and constantly confuse the issue with players doing exactly what the game allows and intends for them to do. It isn't totally, but there's another aspect to it. Right now, there are complaints that people are leaving matches all the time and the only fix to this offered is timer penalties. Well, what happens if nobody cares about those penalties? Then you're left in the Warbarge against anybody on the other side entirely. Then those same people don't want to play DUST anymore at all because of said penalties. Attention spans are small. "Why should I stick around and play," they will ask themselves. I never said you were wrong either. There are absolutely issues with tier-ing and matchmaking. Just as there is also the issue of proto-stomping right now, until said teircide gets fixed. It all really goes hand-in-hand, but the point is that timer penalties aren't the fix. We want DUST to stick around and not die due to the community leaving for the next best thing. GG, by the way. =)
Yeah it was, lol. You totally caught me off guard on the wall there.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.24 15:09:00 -
[66] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:I punitive timer would really hurt this game. Match leaving can't be completely fixed as long as teams are so frequently mis-matched. A lot of vets forget what it's like to be new. Some people turn Dust on and just want to play pubs and have fun, while full squads of protostompers ruin that experience. I never leave battles, but not everyone is rich enough to run proto forever. It would be a pretty big slap in the face for a player who has already decided this game is not going to be enjoyable enough to play, and then force them to stare at an (increasingly long) penalty timer. I couldn't think of a better way to drive away what's left of our player base. Pending better balance and matchmaking, a much better idea for this problem is to reward players who routinely stick it through to the end I really don't think adding an artificial number system with which to guilt players that they have little to no control over is in the best interests of either the game or the community, especially one that can be so easily abused for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with match-making considering that it isn't even done after the fact.
Nah, wouldn't be easily abused. I've covered all the bases in that regard.
What you need to realize is that match-leaving is a symptom of the real problem, not the problem itself. That problem being the small community of drastically different levels of competitiveness.
The idea I posted wasn't posted as a complete solution to match-leaving, but merely a step in the right direction, or a method of at least giving people who play all their matches a sort of 'pat on the back'.
Hope this explanation helps.
Official CPM Platform
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3
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Posted - 2015.06.24 16:27:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:Getting people to stay in matches requires the carrot, not the stick.
How much ISK would you have to make to want to stay in a match where you're being severely stomped? It's probably so high that it would ruin game balance.
CCP should try to implement a way for squamates who disconnect, or don't make it into a match for whatever reason to redeploy with their squad mid-battle. This would eliminate "legit" reasons for quitting battle. After this I think they should use a pretty heavy stick to punish cowards because they screw up matchmaking for everyone else.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:05:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Getting people to stay in matches requires the carrot, not the stick. How much ISK would you have to make to want to stay in a match where you're being severely stomped? It's probably so high that it would ruin game balance. CCP should try to implement a way for squamates who disconnect, or don't make it into a match for whatever reason to redeploy with their squad mid-battle. This would eliminate "legit" reasons for quitting battle. After this I think they should use a pretty heavy stick to punish cowards because they screw up matchmaking for everyone else. e.g. The first time you quit you get a 10% reduction to passive SP for 24 hours, 2nd time 30% reduction, 3rd time 70% reduction, etc.
I agree with the first part of your post. The second part is one of the more ridiculous ideas that I've read on this particular forum. Do you actually understand what you're suggesting?
What you think of as legitimate reasons for quitting is irrelevant. Any reason for quitting a match is legitimate. You don't get to define legitimacy.
I don't think you understand what freedom of choice means. Maybe you should go look that up before posting asinine nonsense about how you think everyone should do things your way? There is nothing in the terms we agree to that states you must finish a game you join. Do you know why there is nothing in those terms? Because it's absolutely UNENFORCEABLE. As a result your "opinion" on people's freedom to choose who, how, when and if they play and finish a game is irrelevant. If you don't like it, then don't play. Simple as that.
Because there is nothing in the terms and conditions of the game that states I have to finish a game, then a PUNISHMENT for me not finishing a particular match of any kind is unreasonable and will just lead to people quitting the game. So instead of unbalanced matches, you'll trade that for much longer queue's to potentially no matches as the numbers in this game are already close to rock-bottom according to other posts with verifiable figures on eve-offline.
Let me put this in a way you can (hopefully) understand: This is not a job. I have one job and I don't want another one. This is a game. I play this to have fun. If I'm not having fun, then I'm going to leave. It's got nothing to do with me wanting to ruin your game specifically, it's because I want to have fun which leads me to the following equation:
My Fun's Importance > Your Fun's Importance
If it comes right down to it, then to hell with your fun. Now note, that there's nothing personal there, but if I'm not having fun then I'm not going to waste my already precious free time. That doesn't mean I'll auto-quit if I'm losing, some of the best matches I've played have been losses, but they've been tense, they've been exciting, they've been enjoyable. If I'm just getting stomped the moment I spawn with no opportunity to defend myself? There's nothing fun in that, I'll just leave as per my above.
Punishing people for staying in a game where they are already not having fun, is even less fun. In a game where you have nothing to lose, a la halo some people might stay, because they have nothing to lose. This isn't that game. People have potentially a lot of isk that they will lose by staying and I'll post up another variant of the equation for you below:
My ISK's Importance > Your ISK's importance.
Thirdly, I'm not a child. You can't punish me because I don't want to play the game the way you think I should play the game (I'll refer you back to my freedom of choice spiel further up). If we want people to stay in a game where (and here's the crucial point again) they have something to lose, then they have to be incentivised as others have said.
If you go the punitive route, people will just stop playing so it must be incentivised. You say ISK would be unbalanced, so go a combination of ISK and Skill Point Multipliers, Warbarge Components, Salvaged weapons and items. Something that would offset the massive losses and lack of fun that would be involved in staying in these matches, but using a stick will just stop people playing. It's the wrong way to go all around. |
One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 17:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
Three questions that anyone can supporting character name removal can feel free to answer:
1) How does this fix people leaving because of the map?
2) How will this fix people leaving because a member of their squad did not get into the game?
3) How will this fix people leaving because of the match already being in progress (and the sever decrease in ISK paid as a result)?
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Mina Longstrike wrote:Getting people to stay in matches requires the carrot, not the stick. How much ISK would you have to make to want to stay in a match where you're being severely stomped? It's probably so high that it would ruin game balance. CCP should try to implement a way for squamates who disconnect, or don't make it into a match for whatever reason to redeploy with their squad mid-battle. This would eliminate "legit" reasons for quitting battle. After this I think they should use a pretty heavy stick to punish cowards because they screw up matchmaking for everyone else. e.g. The first time you quit you get a 10% reduction to passive SP for 24 hours, 2nd time 30% reduction, 3rd time 70% reduction, etc. I agree with the first part of your post. The second part is one of the more ridiculous ideas that I've read on this particular forum. Do you actually understand what you're suggesting? What you think of as legitimate reasons for quitting is irrelevant. Any reason for quitting a match is legitimate. You don't get to define legitimacy. I don't think you understand what freedom of choice means. Maybe you should go look that up before posting asinine nonsense about how you think everyone should do things your way? There is nothing in the terms we agree to that states you must finish a game you join. Do you know why there is nothing in those terms? Because it's absolutely UNENFORCEABLE. As a result your "opinion" on people's freedom to choose who, how, when and if they play and finish a game is irrelevant. If you don't like it, then don't play. Simple as that. Because there is nothing in the terms and conditions of the game that states I have to finish a game, then a PUNISHMENT for me not finishing a particular match of any kind is unreasonable and will just lead to people quitting the game. So instead of unbalanced matches, you'll trade that for much longer queue's to potentially no matches as the numbers in this game are already close to rock-bottom according to other posts with verifiable figures on eve-offline. Let me put this in a way you can (hopefully) understand: This is not a job. I have one job and I don't want another one. This is a game. I play this to have fun. If I'm not having fun, then I'm going to leave. It's got nothing to do with me wanting to ruin your game specifically, it's because I want to have fun which leads me to the following equation: My Fun's Importance > Your Fun's Importance If it comes right down to it, then to hell with your fun. Now note, that there's nothing personal there, but if I'm not having fun then I'm not going to waste my already precious free time. That doesn't mean I'll auto-quit if I'm losing, some of the best matches I've played have been losses, but they've been tense, they've been exciting, they've been enjoyable. If I'm just getting stomped the moment I spawn with no opportunity to defend myself? There's nothing fun in that, I'll just leave as per my above. Punishing people for staying in a game where they are already not having fun, is even less fun. In a game where you have nothing to lose, a la halo some people might stay, because they have nothing to lose. This isn't that game. People have potentially a lot of isk that they will lose by staying and I'll post up another variant of the equation for you below: My ISK's Importance > Your ISK's importance. Thirdly, I'm not a child. You can't punish me because I don't want to play the game the way you think I should play the game (I'll refer you back to my freedom of choice spiel further up). If we want people to stay in a game where (and here's the crucial point again) they have something to lose, then they have to be incentivised as others have said. If you go the punitive route, people will just stop playing so it must be incentivised. You say ISK would be unbalanced, so go a combination of ISK and Skill Point Multipliers, Warbarge Components, Salvaged weapons and items. Something that would offset the massive losses and lack of fun that would be involved in staying in these matches, but using a stick will just stop people playing. It's the wrong way to go all around.
The importance of your fun < the importance of the 31 other players' fun
When players leave it creates a snowball effect of sh*tty gameplay for everyone else, more people end up leaving and you've got a f*cked match that's no fun for anyone. Lobby shoppers are like the d*ckheads that cut in line. Currently there are reasonable excuses for leaving battle because you can get separated from your squamates, but once that's fixed there is no legit reason to leave a battle.
When you join a battle you're signing up for a contract with an NPC corp. It make sense that there would be repercussions for bailing out on your contract. With stiff penalties for bailing on your team, I guarantee there will be better matches for everyone and people will be less likely to want to bail as a result. It's a virtuous cycle. You may not be a child but your argument reads like it's been written by one. Freedom of choice... give me a f*cking break.
Best PvE idea ever!
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The KTM DuKe
0uter.Heaven
365
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
My solution: give the option leave the battle only to squad leaders, when he leaves all his squad mates will be kicked from the match in 1 minute(figure out a tanker who need to recall his tank). Create then a "vote to kick" option that work only for team mates, so if someone is on the MCC doing nothing he can get kicked with 51% of votes( on 16 players it is 9...maybe a bit to higher) any thoughts on this?
"Have fun and don't be an aGÇóGÇó hole" zaria min deir. \o/
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
The importance of your fun < the importance of the 31 other players' fun
When players leave it creates a snowball effect of sh*tty gameplay for everyone else, more people end up leaving and you've got a f*cked match that's no fun for anyone. Lobby shoppers are like the d*ckheads that cut in line. Currently there are reasonable excuses for leaving battle because you can get separated from your squamates, but once that's fixed there is no legit reason to leave a battle.
When you join a battle you're signing up for a contract with an NPC corp. It make sense that there would be repercussions for bailing out on your contract. With stiff penalties for bailing on your team, I guarantee there will be better matches for everyone and people will be less likely to want to bail as a result. It's a virtuous cycle. You may not be a child but your argument reads like it's been written by one. Freedom of choice... give me a f*cking break.
You still don't get it clearly. My fun is more important than anyone elses fun that I happen to be online with. That's the way people play games in an online setting. I don't know you and I couldn't care less about you or your fun. If I'M not having fun, then to hell with your fun. If people aren't having fun then what you are suggesting is happening will continue to happen.
If you implement your moronic suggestion then *I* guarantee you that the players who are more casual will just stop playing the game entirely and you'll be left with nothing but the hardcore dedicated people like yourself who seem to feel that complete strangers somehow *owe* them something.
I don't owe you anything you arrogant individual and the fact that you seem to think otherwise is the biggest problem with your suggestion. Any reason someone leaves is legitimate. They don't owe you anything, least of all an explanation for why they left a game. The fact is that you're stomping your feet like a petulant child because they have the "audacity" to want to have fun, or whatever other reason they leave, and are doing the equivalent of complaining to your parents. What you are asking is unenforceable and will lead to this game simply dying. No other game ever has attempted to punish its players for leaving games, no MMO, no online FPS, RTS or Grand Strategy because to do so would be complete suicide for that game.
What makes sense in terms in-game is irrelevant, like I tried to explain to you, if people aren't having fun, they will stop playing. You seem to think that they owe you their time. I don't think so. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
10
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:... match-leaving is a symptom of the real problem, not the problem itself.
100% agree.
Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
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TIGER SHARK1501
Savage Bullet
RUST415
247
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Posted - 2015.06.24 22:59:00 -
[74] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:If Scotty must serve low-quality matches, adjusting pay scales would be the very best way to keep players playing.
As a given lobby's Mu disparity increases, the underdog SP / Isk multiplier increases. The steeper the odds are against you, the more you get paid at the end of the match. Once it is worthwhile to do so, more players will stick it out and fight through the low-quality matches.
Reward the brave o7 |
Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 05:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
Krias Thracian wrote:Vell0cet wrote:
The importance of your fun < the importance of the 31 other players' fun
When players leave it creates a snowball effect of sh*tty gameplay for everyone else, more people end up leaving and you've got a f*cked match that's no fun for anyone. Lobby shoppers are like the d*ckheads that cut in line. Currently there are reasonable excuses for leaving battle because you can get separated from your squamates, but once that's fixed there is no legit reason to leave a battle.
When you join a battle you're signing up for a contract with an NPC corp. It make sense that there would be repercussions for bailing out on your contract. With stiff penalties for bailing on your team, I guarantee there will be better matches for everyone and people will be less likely to want to bail as a result. It's a virtuous cycle. You may not be a child but your argument reads like it's been written by one. Freedom of choice... give me a f*cking break.
You still don't get it clearly. My fun is more important than anyone elses fun that I happen to be online with. That's the way people play games in an online setting. I don't know you and I couldn't care less about you or your fun. If I'M not having fun, then to hell with your fun. If people aren't having fun then what you are suggesting is happening will continue to happen. If you implement your moronic suggestion then *I* guarantee you that the players who are more casual will just stop playing the game entirely and you'll be left with nothing but the hardcore dedicated people like yourself who seem to feel that complete strangers somehow *owe* them something. I don't owe you anything you arrogant individual and the fact that you seem to think otherwise is the biggest problem with your suggestion. Any reason someone leaves is legitimate. They don't owe you anything, least of all an explanation for why they left a game. The fact is that you're stomping your feet like a petulant child because they have the "audacity" to want to have fun, or whatever other reason they leave, and are doing the equivalent of complaining to your parents. What you are asking is unenforceable and will lead to this game simply dying. No other game ever has attempted to punish its players for leaving games, no MMO, no online FPS, RTS or Grand Strategy because to do so would be complete suicide for that game. What makes sense in terms in-game is irrelevant, like I tried to explain to you, if people aren't having fun, they will stop playing. You seem to think that they owe you their time. I don't think so.
If the lobby shoppers leave the game, most matches will be a lot closer and everyone will have more fun in general. I'd welcome that. With lots of close and fun matches more people will come back to the game and newer players will stick around. It's a small precent of the player base that's causing the problem for everyone. I have no problem with them quitting the game. DUST won't die with them gone, it will probably retain more players.
There are plenty of games that penalize you for leaving a PvP match early by the way.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Faquira Bleuetta
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
514
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Posted - 2015.06.25 06:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
lol wat a fking joke, "seriouly" why not use snuff video scene appear in ur screen when u leave match. |
Aeon Amadi
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
10
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Posted - 2015.06.25 07:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Three questions that anyone can supporting character name removal can feel free to answer:
1) How does this fix people leaving because of the map?
2) How will this fix people leaving because a member of their squad did not get into the game?
3) How will this fix people leaving because of the match already being in progress (and the sever decrease in ISK paid as a result)?
Thread did exactly what it was intended to: Spark a discussion. Proposed an idea that I knew would be controversial and people probably would disagree with and we got some really good counter-suggestions.
Name removal is sort of a last ditch effort, honestly. It is an extreme. It is the assumption that players are leaving because of the competition (which some do) and one of the suggestions proposed was to make it more lasting and rewarding for the players that stayed, something I fully agree with because it adds value to sticking with a losing battle.
Vote #TeamGreen
Because if you don't, the Caldari will be the next ones who are bias!
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Krias Thracian
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2015.06.25 08:08:00 -
[78] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
If the lobby shoppers leave the game, most matches will be a lot closer and everyone will have more fun in general. I'd welcome that. With lots of close and fun matches more people will come back to the game and newer players will stick around. It's a small precent of the player base that's causing the problem for everyone. I have no problem with them quitting the game. DUST won't die with them gone, it will probably retain more players.
There are plenty of games that penalize you for leaving a PvP match early by the way.
It can't be a small percentage of players causing the problem, because you claim the problem is huge. One or two people leaving a game doesn't make any real difference to the outcome. 15v15 or 14v15 or 14v16 doesn't make any real difference and everyone involved can still have fun.
The problem comes when you have a match where it gets down to 9 v 16, well 7 people from 32 is over 20%, that's not a small percentage. The "problem" is endemic enough that it's spawning large conversations. The example above is a 5th of the players. I've seen matches where there are 3 v 16 players, that's a much larger percentage. Dust is currently at rock-bottom player numbers and over the last three months has averaged under 2000 players per day.
You think a conservative 400 of those leaving would render an international game in a good state? You must be dreaming. (Source: http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust)
You see you say there are plenty of games that penalise you for leaving a PVP match early but you haven't named one. I know WoW penalises you by making you wait 20 minutes to join whatever game type you left. That's a token punishment because in an MMO having a cooldown on that activity doesn't mean anything. There's plenty of other **** to be getting on with. You're talking about far more than a cooldown in a game like this your "punishment" will just alienate players that are casual.
No game can survive on its hardcore players alone. It won't work. You need casual players no matter if you think otherwise. Hardcore players just do not provide the numbers or the revenue stream for a game to survive. |
tffvbhb
Team Bukkakke
3
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Posted - 2015.06.25 15:29:00 -
[79] - Quote
Aidualc wrote:It's easy... player who leave the battle... The Concord fine there with 2% of there total ISK... so.. If you have only 10M ISK ... Concord Takes you 200,000 ISK ... but if you have more that 100M ISK well.. the fine will be loosing almost 2,000,000 ISK...
Only applies if the player leve the battle by Menu option... (as a coward)
Yea a way to get people in the mcc |
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