DUST Search - So assaults are now going down, ey?

Sleepy Shadow wrote:

Scheneighnay McBob wrote:

Sleepy Shadow wrote:

Scheneighnay McBob wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

Say what?

Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped.

Absolutely! It is time we had slayer logis again, they have been sorely missed. After people get tired of them, we need to nerf the logi in order to buff the scouts. When people have yet again gotten tired of the beefy scouts, I think itGÇÖs time we bring the HMG back while kicking scouts in the teeth! Yeah, thatGÇÖll show them scouts. And then we look at all them heavies everywhere and might remember that having assaults in assault suits was a pretty good thing.

Buffing anything at the expense of another is never a good thing.

It isn't buffing one thing at the expense of another, and it's not just assaults and logis.
Rattati wanted to normalize the ratio between eHP and speed, so a lot of suits got changed, just assaults and logis are the most noticeable change.

Thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203785&find=unread

I know the thread, you can find few of my responses there.

And it is buffing at the expense of another, quite literally. You are taking assaultGÇÖs speed and giving it to the logis. I have no problem with logis getting a speed buff, none at all, but I do have a problem with taking it away from the assaults. Why must we buff one suit by taking it away from another? Why not give logis more speed without touching the assaults? One little thing at a time would be much better.

Those speed values for assaults on RattatiGÇÖs graphs are heartbreakingly low. We have seen where it leads us when assault suits are lacklustre in comparison to others.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 13:07:00 - [1] - Quote Caldari assault will be too slow to run back inside redline to hide behind a rock. Caldari Loyalist Uka ki onuoto Kirjuun. Nei ya arekaini saaja hui ka Heiian! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu
IVIaster LUKE Art.of.Death 837	Posted - 2015.05.27 13:28:00 - [2] - Quote In that case. Head glitch don't fail me know! What has 0.3 spool up time and 'Donkey kick to the balls recoil' ? Miss Piggy! =ƒÉ+
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:32:00 - [3] - Quote Say what? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Genral69 death Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 301	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:36:00 - [4] - Quote I don't understand why assaults must suffer. I agree that commandos are to need a small speed buff, not so sure about the logi as people always amor stack th em anyway General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
tal mrak-thanl Corrosive Synergy 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:37:00 - [5] - Quote Rise of the scout Director - Corrosive Synergy
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 372	Posted - 2015.05.27 14:47:00 - [6] - Quote tal mrak-thanl wrote: Rise of the scout For me it will be the rise of the logi. More equipment, better scan range and hacking speed! And all I have to sacrifice is... Nothing! =ƒÿ¦
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:04:00 - [7] - Quote Not sure yet what to make of this. I hope we don't go back to the days of the assault-logi !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:24:00 - [8] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Not sure yet what to make of this. I hope we don't go back to the days of the assault-logi Kinda thinking we will. Did some theory crafting and my Gal Log already looks more impressive than my Gal Assault for a variety of reasons. - Better Role Bonus Application (more reduction from equipment, don't need to fit a sidearm anyway) - Better scanning capability - Better fitting capability (both in PG/CPU and slot count) - Better mobility (after changes) - Less EHP (can be handled up on with more versatile fitting) - No sidearm (usually don't need it anyway) Minmatar Commando is also looking pretty impressive too considering that it's bonuses are generally just better, two light weapons means higher firepower, and it's mobility will be on par with the Assaults. More base EHP means that I won't have to worry as much fitting buffer and can focus on fitting regen/damage/scan modules to improve on it's weaknesses and hallmark on it's strengths. IMO, this may just be the final nail in the coffin for the poor old Caldari/Gallente Assaults. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:27:00 - [9] - Quote So why are assaults getting nerfed? Is it because of the Minmatar assault? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Talos Vagheitan Ancient Exiles. 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:36:00 - [10] - Quote What's CCP's stated goal/intent behind this? I'd be curious to read it. I can't really see what this is supposed to accomplish. !--CCP, let's push for the license of Dust on both current Gen consoles--!

Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 373	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:40:00 - [11] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: What's CCP's stated goal/intent behind this? I'd be curious to read it. I can't really see what this is supposed to accomplish. Because it looks pretty on paper, that's what I got from it. It's in the feedback section: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203785&find=unread =ƒÿ¦
Aeon Amadi Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:38:00 - [12] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: What's CCP's stated goal/intent behind this? I'd be curious to read it. I can't really see what this is supposed to accomplish. Because it looks pretty on paper, that's what I got from it. It's in the feedback section: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203785&find=unread As much as I want to don the tin-foil hate and say it's because The Barbershop has been bitching for something along these lines for a while now, I'm just going to leave it at that and see what happens. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:43:00 - [13] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: So why are assaults getting nerfed? Is it because of the Minmatar assault? This + apparently CCP listened to logis as they want to be faster than assaults. I'm happy for commando buff. I really like MD minmando. But we'll see what it will look like after changes. I hope there won't be assault-logis around. Caldari Loyalist Uka ki onuoto Kirjuun. Nei ya arekaini saaja hui ka Heiian! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:18:00 - [14] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Say what? Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped. Aloha snackbar
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 374	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:47:00 - [15] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Say what? Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped. Absolutely! It is time we had slayer logis again, they have been sorely missed. After people get tired of them, we need to nerf the logi in order to buff the scouts. When people have yet again gotten tired of the beefy scouts, I think itGÇÖs time we bring the HMG back while kicking scouts in the teeth! Yeah, thatGÇÖll show them scouts. And then we look at all them heavies everywhere and might remember that having assaults in assault suits was a pretty good thing. Buffing anything at the expense of another is never a good thing. =ƒÿ¦
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4	Posted - 2015.05.27 17:51:00 - [16] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Say what? Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped. Absolutely! It is time we had slayer logis again, they have been sorely missed. After people get tired of them, we need to nerf the logi in order to buff the scouts. When people have yet again gotten tired of the beefy scouts, I think itGÇÖs time we bring the HMG back while kicking scouts in the teeth! Yeah, thatGÇÖll show them scouts. And then we look at all them heavies everywhere and might remember that having assaults in assault suits was a pretty good thing. Buffing anything at the expense of another is never a good thing. And with all the extra SP and skill refunds we all have/will have one! Suck it broke newbies! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 468	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:03:00 - [17] - Quote All assaults (not only the Min Ass) are able to be too fast when you see how much HP they have. People were complaining about 700HP gal scouts when 1.8 came out and they were slowed down by their armour plates belowed assault speed. Now assaults can have 800-900HP while being as fast as a gal scout without armour plates and you guys are surprised they get a speed nerf However I do agree it may be slightly excessive. Assaults and logis should have been both brought to a speed level between the 2 current ones. Assaults are slowed down by their HPs, logis by their equipment
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 750	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:10:00 - [18] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: All assaults (not only the Min Ass) are able to be too fast when you see how much HP they have. People were complaining about 700HP gal scouts when 1.8 came out and they were slowed down by their armour plates belowed assault speed. Now assaults can have 800-900HP while being as fast as a gal scout without armour plates and you guys are surprised they get a speed nerf However I do agree it may be slightly excessive. Assaults and logis should have been both brought to a speed level between the 2 current ones. Assaults are slowed down by their HPs, logis by their equipment Comparing assaults to scouts by HP and speed again misses the critical factors that made people complain about scouts: SCOUTS CAN BE INVISIBLE TO SCANS, this combined with their speed, superior passive scans, and the shotgun made them absurdly deadly, so people complained. This is not the case for assaults and never has been, so their higher hp is not just fair, its necessary for them to be effective at all. And similarly this new change to assault speeds and logi speeds is ignoring the massive utility of the logi and balancing solely on an hp v. speed scale, which is entirely inappropriate. If you balance only by speed v. HP, then classes like Logi and scout will do disproportionately better because they have advantages that go well beyond the one dimensional scale you are balancing them on (equipment, stealth, scanning, etc).
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:18:00 - [19] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Say what? Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped. Absolutely! It is time we had slayer logis again, they have been sorely missed. After people get tired of them, we need to nerf the logi in order to buff the scouts. When people have yet again gotten tired of the beefy scouts, I think itGÇÖs time we bring the HMG back while kicking scouts in the teeth! Yeah, thatGÇÖll show them scouts. And then we look at all them heavies everywhere and might remember that having assaults in assault suits was a pretty good thing. Buffing anything at the expense of another is never a good thing. It isn't buffing one thing at the expense of another, and it's not just assaults and logis. Rattati wanted to normalize the ratio between eHP and speed, so a lot of suits got changed, just assaults and logis are the most noticeable change. Thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203785&find=unread Aloha snackbar
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 377	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:35:00 - [20] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Say what? Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped. Absolutely! It is time we had slayer logis again, they have been sorely missed. After people get tired of them, we need to nerf the logi in order to buff the scouts. When people have yet again gotten tired of the beefy scouts, I think itGÇÖs time we bring the HMG back while kicking scouts in the teeth! Yeah, thatGÇÖll show them scouts. And then we look at all them heavies everywhere and might remember that having assaults in assault suits was a pretty good thing. Buffing anything at the expense of another is never a good thing. It isn't buffing one thing at the expense of another, and it's not just assaults and logis. Rattati wanted to normalize the ratio between eHP and speed, so a lot of suits got changed, just assaults and logis are the most noticeable change. Thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203785&find=unread I know the thread, you can find few of my responses there. And it is buffing at the expense of another, quite literally. You are taking assaultGÇÖs speed and giving it to the logis. I have no problem with logis getting a speed buff, none at all, but I do have a problem with taking it away from the assaults. Why must we buff one suit by taking it away from another? Why not give logis more speed without touching the assaults? One little thing at a time would be much better. Those speed values for assaults on RattatiGÇÖs graphs are heartbreakingly low. We have seen where it leads us when assault suits are lacklustre in comparison to others. =ƒÿ¦

Booby Tuesdays Bad Mother Thukkers 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:51:00 - [21] - Quote I look forward to watching TryHards attempt to convert a suit with less HP than an Amarr Scout into a slayer fit. A much more expensive fit than an Assault fit as well. Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 751	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:05:00 - [22] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: I look forward to watching TryHards attempt to convert a suit with less HP than an Amarr Scout into a slayer fit. A much more expensive fit than an Assault fit as well. You mean like scouts have been doing since forever? Like Ive been saying: Speed and HP are not the only stats on your suits. Balancing as if they are is not going to get you a balanced game, its going to get you either a boring game (if you strip out everything but speed and HP to have actual balance) or an imbalanced one (if you leave in dampening/scanning/equipment/etc dominance).
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:07:00 - [23] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: IMO, this may just be the final nail in the coffin for the poor old Caldari/Gallente Assaults. Might as well put the nail in the coffin of the Amarr (slower than Min Heavy) and Min Assault as well. The only thing I ever loved about the Min Assault was the Speed and the 4/4. Other than that, there was nothing special about it. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN New Eden's Heros 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:09:00 - [24] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: I look forward to watching TryHards attempt to convert a suit with less HP than an Amarr Scout into a slayer fit. A much more expensive fit than an Assault fit as well. You mean like scouts have been doing since forever? Like Ive been saying: Speed and HP are not the only stats on your suits. Balancing as if they are is not going to get you a balanced game, its going to get you either a boring game (if you strip out everything but speed and HP to have actual balance) or an imbalanced one (if you leave in dampening/scanning/equipment/etc dominance). This is one thing CCP Rattati fails to understand. looking at the numbers vs the real impact on the game is like comparing school to real life. I will almost never need to know the formula of a Hyperbola or the angles on a Triangle. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:18:00 - [25] - Quote I started the gal logi fotm back in the day..when I was in AE, don't think I can't start a new fotm =ƒÿÇ Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:51:00 - [26] - Quote Sleepy Shadow wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Say what? Because their movement speeds are inconsistent with their eHP, assaults and logis are getting their speeds swapped. Absolutely! It is time we had slayer logis again, they have been sorely missed. After people get tired of them, we need to nerf the logi in order to buff the scouts. When people have yet again gotten tired of the beefy scouts, I think itGÇÖs time we bring the HMG back while kicking scouts in the teeth! Yeah, thatGÇÖll show them scouts. And then we look at all them heavies everywhere and might remember that having assaults in assault suits was a pretty good thing. Buffing anything at the expense of another is never a good thing. It isn't buffing one thing at the expense of another, and it's not just assaults and logis. Rattati wanted to normalize the ratio between eHP and speed, so a lot of suits got changed, just assaults and logis are the most noticeable change. Thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203785&find=unread I know the thread, you can find few of my responses there. And it is buffing at the expense of another, quite literally. You are taking assaultGÇÖs speed and giving it to the logis. I have no problem with logis getting a speed buff, none at all, but I do have a problem with taking it away from the assaults. Why must we buff one suit by taking it away from another? Why not give logis more speed without touching the assaults? One little thing at a time would be much better. Those speed values for assaults on RattatiGÇÖs graphs are heartbreakingly low. We have seen where it leads us when assault suits are lacklustre in comparison to others. They aren't buffing one BY nerfing the other, it's buffing one WHILE nerfing the other. It's completely re-thinking how things work, not a simple buff or nerf. I agree that assaults need to stand out from commandos more, but this change makes sense. Aloha snackbar
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:15:00 - [27] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: I look forward to watching TryHards attempt to convert a suit with less HP than an Amarr Scout into a slayer fit. A much more expensive fit than an Assault fit as well. You mean like scouts have been doing since forever? Like Ive been saying: Speed and HP are not the only stats on your suits. Balancing as if they are is not going to get you a balanced game, its going to get you either a boring game (if you strip out everything but speed and HP to have actual balance) or an imbalanced one (if you leave in dampening/scanning/equipment/etc dominance). Scouts have an eWar advantage, logis don't. Aloha snackbar
Sleepy Shadow Qualified Scrub 382	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:17:00 - [28] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Sleepy Shadow wrote: I know the thread, you can find few of my responses there. And it is buffing at the expense of another, quite literally. You are taking assaultGÇÖs speed and giving it to the logis. I have no problem with logis getting a speed buff, none at all, but I do have a problem with taking it away from the assaults. Why must we buff one suit by taking it away from another? Why not give logis more speed without touching the assaults? One little thing at a time would be much better. Those speed values for assaults on RattatiGÇÖs graphs are heartbreakingly low. We have seen where it leads us when assault suits are lacklustre in comparison to others. They aren't buffing one BY nerfing the other, it's buffing one WHILE nerfing the other. It's completely re-thinking how things work, not a simple buff or nerf. I agree that assaults need to stand out from commandos more, but this change makes sense. If assaults were to receive a tiny nerf to their speed while logis were buffed you might have a point. As it stands though, logis are being buffed at the expense of assaults. After this change my Gallente assault will have the speed of a Gallente logi, while that logi is out enjoying the speed my assault used to have. Assaults and logis are both medium suits and directly compete with each other. ItGÇÖs a very fine line between them and speed is crucial in this game. Why use a gimped assault suit when thereGÇÖs a logi suit with bountiful equipment and other bonuses just waiting to be used. But worry not effendi, I have all roles protoGÇÖd through variety of races, I will adapt. IGÇÖm just saddened that my dear four eyes may become just a suit I stare at in my merc quarters. =ƒÿ¦
ROMULUS H3X research lab 540	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:29:00 - [29] - Quote and the nerf-buff cycle continues. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition No Context 290	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:45:00 - [30] - Quote Why do we buff one thing and nerf the opposite of the buffed thing? I have DESTROYED CCP Rattati



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"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.

"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.