DUST Search - My Opinion on the Scrambler Rifle

Genral69 death wrote:

Deadly Goliath wrote:

So there have been a lot of people saying that the Scrambler Rifle needs to be nerfed and there have been a lotof people saying it is balanced, and its quite funny how the people that say it is balanced are the ones who use it Ugh

It is pretty obvious that it is stronger than other weapons due to the high damage combined with the high rate of fire. But what bothers me the most is that it isn't only good against shield but it can take 1100 armor out with a few shots, even tho it is only doing 80% of its potential damage! This is clearly not balanced. In my opinion it can be balanced with other weapons by simply reducing the damage, although there are probably other, better ways of balancing it, anyways this is just my opinion and I do run a Caldari Assault and my opinion can be a little bit biased, but I do also like to run a Heavy with 1100, and when that gets shot down in 0.5 seconds by a Standard Scrambler Rifle it bothers me.

Doesn't matter how fast I spam that trigger. I can't kill a heavy rushing me, hell I can't kill the dominus sentinel rushing me. Its great against shield ill give it that, but gave you consider that most of the dust population like there super fast min assaults and that the best way to kill them is a scrambler. Seriously if there was no scrambler min assaults would be declared op already . Certainly the AR doesn't kill them quick enough, so we have a fast spamming shield weapon for those strafing (kbam) doughbags

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Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 620	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:24:00 - [31] - Quote it just needs an increase to the hip fire dispersion and it'd be in a good place ADS Ramming Revenge! Plasma Cannon Rampage
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:31:00 - [32] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: it just needs an increase to the hip fire dispersion and it'd be in a good place That's not necessarily a nerf though. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:37:00 - [33] - Quote Deadly Goliath wrote: its quite funny how the people that say it is balanced are the ones who use it Its quite funny how the people who say it is overpowered are the ones who get killed by it. Everyone's opinion sucks. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:39:00 - [34] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Deadly Goliath wrote: its quite funny how the people that say it is balanced are the ones who use it Its quite funny how the people who say it is overpowered are the ones who run caldari/matari. Everyone's opinion sucks. FTFY 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:41:00 - [35] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Deadly Goliath wrote: its quite funny how the people that say it is balanced are the ones who use it Its quite funny how the people who say it is overpowered are the ones who run caldari/matari. Everyone's opinion sucks. FTFY No you didn't. See my edit above. A lot of the complainers are people who think armor tanking should be immune to scramblers. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:46:00 - [36] - Quote I run speed fit armor tanks 90% of the time. I'm talking <600ehp, and rarely die to ScR. RR kills me more than anything.. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 00:59:00 - [37] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Deadly Goliath wrote: At 100% accuracy, yes, but the Scrambler Rifle just seems to hit more, I don't know? You can't shoot enough shots to matter without Amarr Assault 5 LOL. I think maybe you're just bad. Am I? I'm sure many would disagree with you. It's just not worth running over half of the other options without Amarr assault 5. Similarly so with the tactical assault rifle and Gallente assault. Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.
nelo kazuma Ecce Initio RLC. RUST415 226	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:20:00 - [38] - Quote So many people have said its balanced when its obviously not. Fact is its supposed to be the alpha shield weapon polar opposite to rr in profile. For it to be doing more armor dmg than any weapon is a joke. How ccp lets this continue and buff other weapons befor dealing with this is pitiful. on a brighter note when it gets nerfed and it will I hope that its not overdone but to a fair understandable point. Next weapon in line is combat rifle for same issue ridiculous fire rate that makes its assault variant like the ascr useless. It will be funny to see how many abandon it n whine on forums. FOR THE STATE ^(-_-) Cal Loyalist For Life
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 01:42:00 - [39] - Quote nelo kazuma wrote: For it to be doing more armor dmg than any weapon is a joke. Pretty sure True just proved this statement wrong (with math) less than a page ago. Do these people not read (or arithmetic,) or do they just enjoy spouting nonsense? 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 02:08:00 - [40] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: nelo kazuma wrote: For it to be doing more armor dmg than any weapon is a joke. Pretty sure True just proved this statement wrong (with math) less than a page ago. Do these people not read (or arithmetic,) or do they just enjoy spouting nonsense? Armour = 572 [Base], 675 [3xCDM] Vs Duvolle Tactical AR = Armour = 657 [Base], 775 [3x CDM] "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`

iKILLu osborne T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 773	Posted - 2015.05.27 03:58:00 - [41] - Quote Scr is op that's the truth however the assault bonus is what makes ppl say wtf ccp why you no fixie. I would recommend. Bringing up the other assault bonus to par before making any nerfs happen (n`-´)+Æ;;; shotgun blast yo ASs
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 04:11:00 - [42] - Quote True Adamance wrote: P14GU3 wrote: nelo kazuma wrote: For it to be doing more armor dmg than any weapon is a joke. Pretty sure True just proved this statement wrong (with math) less than a page ago. Do these people not read (or arithmetic,) or do they just enjoy spouting nonsense? If someone can provide me with the correct formula for damage modification I'll do comparisons of all existing weapons. That being said only two races of the four have Tactical Rifles thus comparing them to other rifle variations is pointless. However in terms of the two tactical weapons I think they both roughly have the same capabilities for the most part. I count the Burst CR as a "tactical" variant. It is semi auto and has a scope. IMO the RR is the only rifle without a tactical variant. That being said, they all perform about equally. I use the CR for most pubs because "armor meta," the TAR for when there is a good mix of suits on the field, and the ScR for scout spam and that one occasional caldari that peeves me off. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 04:14:00 - [43] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: Scr is op that's the truth however the assault bonus is what makes ppl say wtf ccp why you no fixie. I would recommend. Bringing up the other assault bonus to par before making any nerfs happen That's a point worthy of debate as it is by comparison of the Tactical ScR against another rifle of a different type that this conclusion is reached. At this point while I acknowledge the ScR needs alteration the approach of the general community is more akin to a witch hunt than reasonable discussion or constructive feedback. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 04:16:00 - [44] - Quote BLEGH "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 04:20:00 - [45] - Quote @true, why is that because it fires 3 rounds instead of one? It still has about the same damage per burst as a tactical single round. Other than that, it is exactly the same.. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 04:23:00 - [46] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: @true, why is that because it fires 3 rounds instead of one? It still has about the same damage per burst as a tactical single round. Other than that, it is exactly the same.. Redacted that last post until I am content that I can explain what I mean properly. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Nestil Nos Nothi 284	Posted - 2015.05.27 15:58:00 - [47] - Quote Deadly Goliath wrote: So there have been a lot of people saying that the Scrambler Rifle needs to be nerfed and there have been a lotof people saying it is balanced, and its quite funny how the people that say it is balanced are the ones who use it It is pretty obvious that it is stronger than other weapons due to the high damage combined with the high rate of fire. But what bothers me the most is that it isn't only good against shield but it can take 1100 armor out with a few shots, even tho it is only doing 80% of its potential damage! This is clearly not balanced. In my opinion it can be balanced with other weapons by simply reducing the damage, although there are probably other, better ways of balancing it, anyways this is just my opinion and I do run a Caldari Assault and my opinion can be a little bit biased, but I do also like to run a Heavy with 1100, and when that gets shot down in 0.5 seconds by a Standard Scrambler Rifle it bothers me. I have sometimes games where my team gets stomped hard by a strong proto team. So I need a strong weapon to take out these guys as fast as possible. I use either a shotgun for that or a scrambler rifle (depends on map and framerate, cause the SCR is total trash on low fps games). I can overcome enemies with it which I normally would be not able to bring down....which is good in my book. But I use it on a gal scout and you really have to watch out not to overheat that thing ( so you can't take on two guys at the same time, so you have to pick targets carefully). BUT this weapon is absurdly op on amarr Assaults... So in conclusion I hope CCP don't fucks this weapon up without nerfing it too hard on non amarr assaults. Maybe the Amarr assault bonus should be changed ( but this would also affect other weapons I don't consider op...Lasers which would be bad ) 'LR4-Trading' Protester
deezy dabest 2	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:22:00 - [48] - Quote Do not fear soon the scrambler will be 100% useless to anyone not wearing an Amarr assault. Probably only decent even with the bonuses applied. Those of you that want a useful bonus on your assault suit just remember that this is what happens. Only a level 5 assault user can make it through an armor heavy like people complain about it. Now that the weapon will be balanced based on millions of SP invested in both the weapon and the suit required to use it you shield suits are plenty safe. Have fun whining about the next thing that kills you.
Adicto One 1.U.P 76	Posted - 2015.05.27 16:28:00 - [49] - Quote Buy a Turbo Controller and look this, very easy, if you are noob buy a turbo controller, same than oositaa. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMCXExt60Fs AddictPunk -
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 897	Posted - 2015.05.27 18:23:00 - [50] - Quote True Adamance wrote: P14GU3 wrote: @true, why is that because it fires 3 rounds instead of one? It still has about the same damage per burst as a tactical single round. Other than that, it is exactly the same.. Redacted that last post until I am content that I can explain what I mean properly. I think the Charge Shot is the biggest difference, and why people have a hard time agreeing with your math (excluding those who just enjoy disagreement). The way you calculated the DPS of the Tactical AR was fine because there isn't a charge shot. Those numbers accurately reflect how people use the weapon. However, I think that if you factor in a charge shot as the first shot into the DPS calculations, you'll get more inflated (and more accurate to in-game usage) numbers for the scrambler rifle's DPS. Although I'm sure the Tac Ar has a higher DPS than a charged scrambler rifle over a long period of time, that time interval is longer than the TTK, so it's not very useful. Because the overheat doesn't really matter for the majority of fights that an AmAssault gets into, I think that they pack a much higher DPS per fight than what your calculations suggest (I agree with your math). TL;DR - Re-do the calculations for the Scrambler Rifle DPS assuming the first shot is a charged shot followed up by regular shot and see how that compares to the Tac Ar to more accurately model how the two weapons are used in game I got enemies, got a lot of enemies , got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 19:57:00 - [51] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: True Adamance wrote: P14GU3 wrote: @true, why is that because it fires 3 rounds instead of one? It still has about the same damage per burst as a tactical single round. Other than that, it is exactly the same.. Redacted that last post until I am content that I can explain what I mean properly. I think the Charge Shot is the biggest difference, and why people have a hard time agreeing with your math (excluding those who just enjoy disagreement). The way you calculated the DPS of the Tactical AR was fine because there isn't a charge shot. Those numbers accurately reflect how people use the weapon. However, I think that if you factor in a charge shot as the first shot into the DPS calculations, you'll get more inflated (and more accurate to in-game usage) numbers for the scrambler rifle's DPS. Although I'm sure the Tac Ar has a higher DPS than a charged scrambler rifle over a long period of time, that time interval is longer than the TTK, so it's not very useful. Because the overheat doesn't really matter for the majority of fights that an AmAssault gets into, I think that they pack a much higher DPS per fight than what your calculations suggest (I agree with your math). TL;DR - Re-do the calculations for the Scrambler Rifle DPS assuming the first shot is a charged shot followed up by regular shot and see how that compares to the Tac Ar to more accurately model how the two weapons are used in game That's one aspect of the weapon I acknowledge and have suggested a potential fix to since Rattati himself has made rather derogatory comments about the rifles function. Rather than allow the charged shot followed by rapid fire rounds why not have it function with a 1-2 second weapons cooling animation like the Ion Pistol. Lets ScR keep the charge as a tactical option while not allowing it to apply both its alpha and DPS. Just one or the other. "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Templar XIII Vherokior Combat Logistics 191	Posted - 2015.05.27 20:02:00 - [52] - Quote Golden Day wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: All is fair in the eyes of the winner I suppose. But since the ScR has a comparatively higher risk factor than most rifles, people tend to get defensive if it gets a nerf. It's getting a dps nerf as said by CCP Raticate so don't worry you won't be killed by ScR as much anymore. The Plasma rifles on the other hand though....... I regret clicking that link in your sig.... Damn you, Golden, now I clicked it too... But have to admit, I love ukulele music, makes everything sound beautiful, just like french...ain't nothing wrong with that...
P14GU3 UNIVERSAL C.A.R.N.A.G.E 1	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:09:00 - [53] - Quote @ piercing serenity, the charge shot actually does LESS DPS than just firing normal. The real issue with the charge shot is that you can hold a charge, so when someone turns the corner you already have 2-3 shots worth of damage waiting. If you couldn't hold the charge, the DPS would be very little in comparison to the TAR, or even firing normally. 'Sault AK.0 - Logi AK.0 - Logi GK.0 - Scout GK.0 - 'Mando MK.0 - Masshole in every sense of the word.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 19	Posted - 2015.05.27 22:36:00 - [54] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: @ piercing serenity, the charge shot actually does LESS DPS than just firing normal. The real issue with the charge shot is that you can hold a charge, so when someone turns the corner you already have 2-3 shots worth of damage waiting. If you couldn't hold the charge, the DPS would be very little in comparison to the TAR, or even firing normally. There's nothing wrong as I see it with holding the charge, it's almost necessary to get full value out of the shot. However I know you personally favour a "no hold" approach to balancing it. My preferred manner is to see it have a seizure animation post shot preventing it from coupling alpha with DPS. Separating the charged shot into a viable but tactical fire mode that has its own individual draw back. Kage made a thread about this. Post you opinion in it as well! "Crush all who complain!" `- Arkena Wyrnspire`
Zindorak Nyain Chan 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 00:42:00 - [55] - Quote Id say its balanced I get as many kills with it as i do with the CR Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Mejt0 Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.05.28 01:03:00 - [56] - Quote Sure whiners will get it nerfed. They already did. I am really curious how many will whine about buffed AR and minmandos with six kins. Caldari Loyalist Uka ki onuoto Kirjuun. Nei ya arekaini saaja hui ka Heiian! Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu
2Berries Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 888	Posted - 2015.05.28 01:25:00 - [57] - Quote Georgia Xavier wrote: Deadly Goliath wrote: True Adamance wrote: Deadly Goliath wrote: True Adamance wrote: Interesting. According to Protofits [NOT ACCURATE I KNOW] the DPS against...... Shield = 858 [Base], 987 [Proficiency V], and 1164 [Proficiency + 3x CDM] Armour = 572 [Base], 675 [3xCDM] While the Tac AR hits in terms of DPS against..... Shield = 803 [Base], 923 [Proficiency V], 1090 [Proficiency V + 3xCDM] Armour = 657 [Base], 775 [3x CDM] If I am not mistaken. What's this about the ScR thrashing armour too quickly? At 100% accuracy, yes, but the Scrambler Rifle just seems to hit more, I don't know? "the Scrambler Rifle just seems to hit more"...... ......is a logical fallacy known as "anecdote". I don't know man you tell me, why are they so much ScR running around and no TARs? Because the TAR is just an imitation of the ScR. I don't actually know, perhaps it's the charg? TAC AR has kick, ScR does not. Charge is pretty nice too. It's nice to see the two heavy hitters from the old days back on top, been running alot of GEK's & CRW's again. Evening Boys, Hows the water?
2Berries Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 888	Posted - 2015.05.28 01:26:00 - [58] - Quote Templar XIII wrote: Golden Day wrote: Georgia Xavier wrote: All is fair in the eyes of the winner I suppose. But since the ScR has a comparatively higher risk factor than most rifles, people tend to get defensive if it gets a nerf. It's getting a dps nerf as said by CCP Raticate so don't worry you won't be killed by ScR as much anymore. The Plasma rifles on the other hand though....... I regret clicking that link in your sig.... Damn you, Golden, now I clicked it too... But have to admit, I love ukulele music, makes everything sound beautiful, just like french...ain't nothing wrong with that... I followed the link, stopped at the title. Pretty happy with myself right now. Evening Boys, Hows the water?
Piercing Serenity Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 897	Posted - 2015.05.28 04:53:00 - [59] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: @ piercing serenity, the charge shot actually does LESS DPS than just firing normal. The real issue with the charge shot is that you can hold a charge, so when someone turns the corner you already have 2-3 shots worth of damage waiting. If you couldn't hold the charge, the DPS would be very little in comparison to the TAR, or even firing normally. I'll take your word on the DPS dip, but the DPS that it does apply is very front-loaded. With True's numbers, I think that dealing 900 damage within the first 0.5 seconds of the engagement is more powerful than 1100 damage over a full second, because no other weapon can match that kind of DPS over the range that the ScR can. @True: I know, and liked, your suggestion. I would be fine with a small seize up - it would change the charge shot from a CQC option to a long range engagement starter, where you are closing in on an enemy you have flanked or something. I got enemies, got a lot of enemies , got a lot of people tryna drain me of this energy
Nachos 208	Posted - 2015.05.28 05:00:00 - [60] - Quote Genral69 death wrote: Deadly Goliath wrote: So there have been a lot of people saying that the Scrambler Rifle needs to be nerfed and there have been a lotof people saying it is balanced, and its quite funny how the people that say it is balanced are the ones who use it It is pretty obvious that it is stronger than other weapons due to the high damage combined with the high rate of fire. But what bothers me the most is that it isn't only good against shield but it can take 1100 armor out with a few shots, even tho it is only doing 80% of its potential damage! This is clearly not balanced. In my opinion it can be balanced with other weapons by simply reducing the damage, although there are probably other, better ways of balancing it, anyways this is just my opinion and I do run a Caldari Assault and my opinion can be a little bit biased, but I do also like to run a Heavy with 1100, and when that gets shot down in 0.5 seconds by a Standard Scrambler Rifle it bothers me. Doesn't matter how fast I spam that trigger. I can't kill a heavy rushing me, hell I can't kill the dominus sentinel rushing me. Its great against shield ill give it that, but gave you consider that most of the dust population like there super fast min assaults and that the best way to kill them is a scrambler. Seriously if there was no scrambler min assaults would be declared op already . Certainly the AR doesn't kill them quick enough, so we have a fast spamming shield weapon for those strafing (kbam) doughbags lol what is wrong with you....i down a heavy in 2 seconds with a scrambler rifle but overheat afterwards. 1v1 this gun wins 100% of the time. 2v1, this gun gets you killed...by the time you switch to your sidearm the player has done 1+second of damage to you with is probably 500....it is balanced, but the TAR needs no kick to it like the bolt pistol (fire, it centers back to original position) xavier zor's alt xavier zor



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Gk0 Scout yay :)