DUST Search - Need Quick Explanation

Lynn Beck wrote:

Happy Violentime wrote:

Diablo Gamekeeper wrote:

Happy Violentime wrote:

Diablo Gamekeeper wrote:

So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need?

5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer

So, 25 different power cores?

No, just 5.

You have 4 races

Each race has 5 suits

There are 5 levels of power core

Militia power core on assault frame gives you equivalent of a militia assault.

Officer core on assault frame gives you equivalent of officer assault.

I don't think we'd have officer power cores, sense the suit would have to have an extra slot here or there and that's not possible.

Plus, even if there ARE offisuits without different layouts, consistency.

Also I have a feeling these cores will either have to be % based and have different ones for each frame size(Commandos for example would need more PG than a Scout at similar tiers) or we'd have to make what it gives be based on the frame, which would be convoluted IMO.

Also up for grabs is the 5 cores but for each race, i'd imagine.

Someone needs to flesh this out more...

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition No Context 270	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:23:00 - [1] - Quote So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? I have DESTROYED CCP Rattati
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:25:00 - [2] - Quote I believe they said something about every suit giving a bonus to the core's stats. Either way, power cores eliminate extra models, which take up much more memory. Some details can be ignored
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:25:00 - [3] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition No Context 270	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:29:00 - [4] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I believe they said something about every suit giving a bonus to the core's stats. Either way, power cores eliminate extra models, which take up much more memory. We would still need the actual frame itself. I have DESTROYED CCP Rattati
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition No Context 270	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:30:00 - [5] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer So, 25 different power cores? I have DESTROYED CCP Rattati
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:45:00 - [6] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer So, 25 different power cores? No, just 5. You have 4 races Each race has 5 suits There are 5 levels of power core Militia power core on assault frame gives you equivalent of a militia assault. Officer core on assault frame gives you officer assault.
Lynn Beck Delta Vanguard 6 2	Posted - 2015.05.21 22:52:00 - [7] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer So, 25 different power cores? No, just 5. You have 4 races Each race has 5 suits There are 5 levels of power core Militia power core on assault frame gives you equivalent of a militia assault. Officer core on assault frame gives you equivalent of officer assault. I don't think we'd have officer power cores, sense the suit would have to have an extra slot here or there and that's not possible. Plus, even if there ARE offisuits without different layouts, consistency. Also I have a feeling these cores will either have to be % based and have different ones for each frame size(Commandos for example would need more PG than a Scout at similar tiers) or we'd have to make what it gives be based on the frame, which would be convoluted IMO. Also up for grabs is the 5 cores but for each race, i'd imagine. Someone needs to flesh this out more... General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation'
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1	Posted - 2015.05.21 23:13:00 - [8] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer So, 25 different power cores? No, just 5. You have 4 races Each race has 5 suits There are 5 levels of power core Militia power core on assault frame gives you equivalent of a militia assault. Officer core on assault frame gives you equivalent of officer assault. I don't think we'd have officer power cores, sense the suit would have to have an extra slot here or there and that's not possible. Plus, even if there ARE offisuits without different layouts, consistency. Also I have a feeling these cores will either have to be % based and have different ones for each frame size(Commandos for example would need more PG than a Scout at similar tiers) or we'd have to make what it gives be based on the frame, which would be convoluted IMO. Also up for grabs is the 5 cores but for each race, i'd imagine. Someone needs to flesh this out more... Why just officer??? Slot layout currently changes at every tier. We're either looking at tiercide (try typing that with auto correct) or the cores enabling slots. Why is saying a gal assault suit has 300cpu and 50pg with a milita core and a minmitar assault suit has 310 CPU and 45PG when you fit the same core convoluted?
danie sous DUST BRASIL S.A Rise Of Legion. 42	Posted - 2015.05.22 01:46:00 - [9] - Quote The cores would not have a visual asset associated. Even if they have 120 cores they would be smaller in size. If thats achievable then they could make the game load faster or add more content. So the droupsuits give basic parameters ( slot layout, movement speed, hitbox etc) Cores give cpu and pg restrictions Skins give the visual layout. Its a game breaking idea, but... It's not going to happen. Remember pve? CCP would need to do some major coding and risk deploying buggy content. That would likely drive away players if its not done right. I dont see people going through two betas for one game. They need a PC or current gen release. Period. Go check out the witcher and see how nuts that game looks on a ps4.
Diablo Gamekeeper Escrow Removal and Acquisition No Context 270	Posted - 2015.05.22 02:05:00 - [10] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer So, 25 different power cores? No, just 5. You have 4 races Each race has 5 suits There are 5 levels of power core Militia power core on assault frame gives you equivalent of a militia assault. Officer core on assault frame gives you equivalent of officer assault. No, 25 power cores. Different races and for different suit ie. scout, medium, heavy I have DESTROYED CCP Rattati

Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 07:08:00 - [11] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Happy Violentime wrote: Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 5 militia/STD/ADV/proto/officer So, 25 different power cores? No, just 5. You have 4 races Each race has 5 suits There are 5 levels of power core Militia power core on assault frame gives you equivalent of a militia assault. Officer core on assault frame gives you equivalent of officer assault. No, 25 power cores. Different races and for different suit ie. scout, medium, heavy You could do it with 25 power cores or you could do it with 5 - you don't NEED 25 different power cores though. You could attach the CPU and pg stats to the suit - if you fit a mil power core it enables the mil stats a proto core would enable the proto stats. Or you could do it with 25 power cores for each race/suit type with each power core having a different stat. If I was coding it I'd do the former though just to have less things.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10	Posted - 2015.05.22 07:44:00 - [12] - Quote Ultimately depends if CCP can simply pull off say one advanced powercore that would affect all suits and races, then you'd have 3 tiers 3 purchase methods (ISK, AUR, LP) 9 total cores. While this certainly wouldn't be impossible if designed from ground up, it's much more likely each core can only fit to a specific race and role combination, so 3 tiers 3 purchase methods 4 races 5 roles 180 total cores As noted since cores aren't an actually object in game that needs to be rendered we'd still save a lot of space having 180 cores opposed to 180 suits. Praetoriani Classiarii Templares = PIE Inc, Amarr dedicated Corp Channel for AFW Squads & Orbitals: PIE Ground Control
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:01:00 - [13] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: So this is sorta a question to 'Eliminating Redundant Assets' thread that everyone is freaking out about. So if power cores are going to be eliminate different suits, would we not need the 180 or so to come up with every combination of suit layouts that there is currently? Whoever made the thread (can not recall who you are, I apologize) said that we would need 20 dropsuits if this is implemented. How many different power cores do we need? 3 for each suit. Since it would be a module slot it requires an insanely lower server load than a full suit. Example take a assault c-1 and a quafe assault c-1. Same thing right? Just a different paint job. Unfortunately (and this part will make you headdesk Just like I heard Rattati did) the game treats the two as entirely separate entities. It renders them as though they had separate base models as well as animations. So in reality what should be a skin change becomes (memory-wise) the same thing as rendering an assault c-1 adjascent to an assault g-1. The c-1, c/1 and ck.0 all use identical base models but each one is considered a separate asset that must be mapped and pre-loaded individually. Now the game pre-loads (and thus pre-renders) each discrete battle unit. That's 160 potential items loaded per match. But wait. It gets better. Each INDIVIDUAL PERSON has 30 potential fitting slots. That's 30 different potential suits (if you saw muy fitting list you would be horrified) for 32 people. That means the game is pre-loading 960-ish discrete fits per match. The BULK of that memory usage is allocated to the 160 discrete dropsuits. If everyone in the match ran (in their fitting window), for example, nothing but assault C-1s, the game would only have to rrnder one dropsuit and apply it universally. AAlmost no memory allocation wasted. But there's 160 of them. And 960 potential fits. Dropping that load to 20 (plus outliers like officer suits) cuts that load down to 1/8th of the old potential. That's a potentially heavy-handed boost. Creepily enough I'm wondering how many of the problems we have now can be tracked to this issue. Word on the strestreet was that IN all the demos at fanfest all of the uprising demos were smooth as butter. Everyone was absolutely singing it's praises. Then launch, and suddenly the entire game goes straight to sh*t. But it occurs to me. The fanfest demos happened with premade characters and preloaded fittings with little to no massive variation. IE All proto/no aur suits/ minimal variance. So the server oNly had to load maybe 12 dropsuits to each character in each match. I'd laugh my ass of if this was the reason uprising tried to kill itself. Edit: none of this takes vvehicles into account... OH GOD!!!! WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:37:00 - [14] - Quote danie sous wrote: The cores would not have a visual asset associated. Even if they have 120 cores they would be smaller in size. If thats achievable then they could make the game load faster or add more content. The issue isn't from visual assets. It's from repeated instances of the same types to while only changing a small set of attributes. Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 08:56:00 - [15] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: danie sous wrote: The cores would not have a visual asset associated. Even if they have 120 cores they would be smaller in size. If thats achievable then they could make the game load faster or add more content. The issue isn't from visual assets. It's from repeated instances of the same types to while only changing a small set of attributes. Doesn't cause nearly the same load as graphical pre-renders. If you had all 180 cores in play you might match a single dropsuit render load. Maybe. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 09:00:00 - [16] - Quote All the system has to do is calculate final stats of the suit(in fitting window) and preload those values. It only needs to load modules into each suit. The power cores are not even a concern in battle. All the cores do is allow the server to go Suit stats valid: yes/no. That's why when you change a suit in the fitting window the system lugs. It is unloading the old suit and stats and re-loading them on the fly. All pg/cpu do is allow the system to say yes, this is a legal fitting. Those values are irrelevant in-match. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.05.22 10:06:00 - [17] - Quote I am still working on some of the details, but there is no technical issue that we can see hindering us from implementing something like this. Just depends on scope and time. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 128	Posted - 2015.05.22 10:07:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am still working on some of the details, but there is no technical issue that we can see hindering us from implementing something like this. Just depends on scope and time. we would need 3 core types. (AUR, LP and ISK) with 2 teirs (ADV, PRO) which means 6 cores! xavier zor xavier zor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 10:13:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am still working on some of the details, but there is no technical issue that we can see hindering us from implementing something like this. Just depends on scope and time. I made another post. You may be interested about waepon models as well. If this initiative does as much damage to the memory allocation issues as I think it will I'd say take the time you need, make it a priority and get it doedone right instead of rushing. I seriously believe that this may have a lot to do with uprising launch issues. I'm not being facetious here. Nothing else that has been looked at would account for the problems that have plagued this game. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 10:18:00 - [20] - Quote Nachos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am still working on some of the details, but there is no technical issue that we can see hindering us from implementing something like this. Just depends on scope and time. we would need 3 core types. (AUR, LP and ISK) with 2 tiers (ADV, PRO) which means 6 cores unless you want power cores for logis, scouts, ect. source: In my mind cores will increase CPU/PG by x%....depending on the core purchased Actually you can make aur and LP items the same thing since they have identical stats. So that saves one spot. And you need STD as well as ADV/PRO. No core should give militia level fitting stats. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.

Nachos Rogue Instincts New Eden's Heros 128	Posted - 2015.05.22 10:29:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Nachos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am still working on some of the details, but there is no technical issue that we can see hindering us from implementing something like this. Just depends on scope and time. we would need 3 core types. (AUR, LP and ISK) with 2 tiers (ADV, PRO) which means 6 cores unless you want power cores for logis, scouts, ect. source: In my mind cores will increase CPU/PG by x%....depending on the core purchased Actually you can make aur and LP items the same thing since they have identical stats. So that saves one spot. And you need STD as well as ADV/PRO. No core should give militia level fitting stats. Streamlining and consolidation should always be considered the superior option. you don't need STD power cores.....you didn't think about it did you? You start off with an amarr assault (No A-1, A-1 series or ak.0) and it has the same slot layout as the current PRO ak.0 assault. It has reduced CPU/PG JUST like the APEX suits. Now, want to add better gear? You add a power core, which increases CPU/PG by X%. edit: We keep some suits, like militia suits, and the basic frames if the devs want but they will also have power core slots as well. We still have the BPO suits to think about....what about them? Will they get the PRO layout with a power core slot? xavier zor xavier zor
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8	Posted - 2015.05.22 10:40:00 - [22] - Quote Tiericide across the board. WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:09:00 - [23] - Quote Nachos wrote: you don't need STD power cores.....you didn't think about it did you? You start off with an amarr assault (No A-1, A-1 series or ak.0) and it has the same slot layout as the current PRO ak.0 assault. It has reduced CPU/PG JUST like the APEX suits. Now, want to add better gear? You add a power core, which increases CPU/PG by X%. It makes things a lot easier for a newbie to understand if all suits came with a yellow pre-fit Standard Power Core with +0CPU and +0PG, so you can upgrade it with a better one, but a fit will always have something in that slot. Dust/Eve transfers
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:24:00 - [24] - Quote If loading one suit into memory consumed 10x more resources than loading one power core, would we not maintain status quo even if power cores were 10x more numerous than suits? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:32:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Doesn't cause nearly the same load as graphical pre-renders. If you had all 180 cores in play you might match a single dropsuit render load. Maybe. The frame stutters are caused by garbage collection/lack of memory. Visual assets should be loaded directly from disk to to the GPU. In DUST however the assets are generated using data to create base color patterns(e.g. cameo pattern) and colors provided by the type internally. This is likely stored momentarily while it's being generated in RAM but is hopefully freed after it's given to the GPU. Mace yourself, blame someone else itGÇÖs okay, no one will believe you AIV member.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 820	Posted - 2015.05.22 13:50:00 - [26] - Quote I prefer my logi in my Ishkune Gold as opposed to shoot-me yellow or low-res purple. I don't need my enemies knowing I have extra equipment slots and no sidearm. End result, across all tiers I have identical gold suits...I might be in my APEX Assault or Quafe Logi or Proto Assault...annonomity is a kind of stealth I don't intend to collect different redundant skins.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 14:10:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: If loading one suit into memory consumed 10x more resources than loading one power core, would we not maintain status quo even if power cores were 10x more numerous than suits? No, because the items on your suits do not really exist during a match. They're just numbers. When you switch suits, the game engine applies all the stats from your skills and modules and creates a map (e.g. { shield_hp: 440, armor_hp: 216, sprint_speed: 7.7, weapon_slot_1_dispersion: 0.05, weapon_slot_1_max_ammo: 335, grenade_slot_radius: 7.2, ... } you get the picture. That uses up very little memory, and once the calculations are done, can be stored away for the entire match (since you can't change a fit during a game, just swap between existing fits). Dust/Eve transfers
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 6	Posted - 2015.05.22 14:51:00 - [28] - Quote Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I believe they said something about every suit giving a bonus to the core's stats. Either way, power cores eliminate extra models, which take up much more memory. We would still need the actual frame itself. But far less of them. We can remove redundant models. Some details can be ignored
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1	Posted - 2015.05.22 14:52:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: All the system has to do is calculate final stats of the suit(in fitting window) and preload those values. It only needs to load modules into each suit. The power cores are not even a concern in battle. All the cores do is allow the server to go Suit stats valid: yes/no. That's why when you change a suit in the fitting window the system lugs. It is unloading the old suit and stats and re-loading them on the fly. All pg/cpu do is allow the system to say yes, this is a legal fitting. Those values are irrelevant in-match. So why not lock the fitting window and limit the number of suit layouts each character can use in a match? Say you go into the warbarge or merc quarters before deployment and you select five suits that you want to use for your match. These five suits become "active" and only these give suits can/will be used in the match. You can not alter the suit once you enter a match but you can restock the suits if you run out. Doesn't this reduce memory load even further?
Mahal Daj Mahal Tactical Enterprises 158	Posted - 2015.05.22 14:59:00 - [30] - Quote So, to use an example from the Tech 3 Strategic Cruisers and/or rigging in Eve... What if each suit was a basic suit, then you could add to a mid-slot or power core slot attribute-changing elements, so that instead of a fixed number of powercores, you could modify your suit's advancement between basic and prototype functionality... You could add fitting capacity without adding slots You could add a lot of slots without a large increase in fitting capacity You could change your sensor suit to that of a scout on a heavy frame You could put 0-4 equipment slots on the suit You could add base armor and sheild stats You can add more speed an take an armor penalty You could use the 'fitting' resource to fit your suit, and according to the existing logic: heavies would have the least calibration, then medium suits, then light suits. You could further reinforce the nature of each race by giving a fixed-penalty and level-dependent-boost to what types of module-cores they could fit: (Min +speed/-armor; Amarr +armor/-speed) so that its encouraged to go in the direction of the racial-lore. You could then assign as skin to each suit based on meta-level and number of equipment slots: 0-20 gets militia drab, 20-40 basic garb, 40-60 prototype livery or something like that! -daj See my Post on Crashes: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2413361#post2413361



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