CCP is trying to force shield tanks to play a long range game style, but the maps aren't made for this and nor are the turrets.

CCP is trying to force shield tanks to play a long range game style.

Okay, but the maps aren't made for this and nor are the turrets. This is just one problem.

It's fine if CCP want shield tanks to play a long range battle, but the simple fact is that armor tanks are just much better at everything than shield tanks.

Why? Because their slot layout. Armor tanks benefit heavily from the fact that most of the turret modules are on the high slots which make them supper effective at using railguns (which heat up like a biottchh) where as they are able to tank in the lows. On the other hand, shield tanks not only have laughable tanking modules.

Even with two complex heavy shield extenders on Shield HAV's, an Armor tank can easily surpass the total EHP just by using a enhanced armor plate.

Guess what though, in a minute, an Armor tank will repair more armor than a Shield tank with Heavy booster and passives will repair shields.

Not only that, the heavy shield boosters take the same PG as two complex armor repairs. This is a flippin shield tank mate, we don't have that much PG nor can we afford it.

Simply put, armor passive repairs are much better than those regenerative capabilities of shield tanks.

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Now for the Shield hardener vs Armor hardener.

In every way, armor hardener is much better than shield.

1.) Armor Hardener lasts much longer. 6 whole seconds longer without skills (gap increases with skill)

2.) The fitting:
The PG of Shield hardener and CPU of Armor hardener is proportionate. BUT...
Complex Shield Hardener CPU cost vs Armor Hardener PG cost.

The CPU cost of a Complex Shield extender is 341 which is 1/4 or 26.6% of my CPU on a Gunnlogi
The PG cost of a Complex Armor hardener is 400 PG which is like is approx 13% of the Madrugars PG

Gåæ That does not seem fair at all. Why does it take twice the fitting space to fit a shield hardener on a shield tank than a Armor Hardener on a Armor tank?

Fitting a Complex shield extender on Gunnlogi takes up 26.6% of CPU and 9% of the PG
ON the other hand, a Armor Hardener on a Madrugar takes up 13% CPU and 13% PG.

So why is it so uneven for the Gunnlogi/why is it so advantageous to use Armor Hardener on Armor tank than a Shield Hardener on Shield tank?

I am sorry but the entire idea of a 'glass cannon' tank makes no sense. Well, it might be worth thinking about except for the very actions of CCP. Specifically how can you shoot at range when there is no range in the game anymore? Tanks and turrets have gotten repeatedly ganked by the shank masters. FG and AV can get close enough to the red line that CCP's idea just cost anyone silly enough to listen to them a tank. Not to mention these forums and the chats are filled with QQs about red line tanks (but CCP likes it doesn't stem the tide of QQs).

My alt got in a tank fight tonight (UTC morning) and the Red tank fired from extreme (okay, Dust's pizz ant) range. I backed up, put on the hardener, enabled the missile damage mod, rolled forward and dumped a clip. Dead shield tank (C/1). I suspect that target acquisition focus cost them their tank (that a bad fit). With the exception of the blaster tanks both missile and rail guns have effective damage at exactly the same range. With hardeners coming with 2 second delays waiting until you see the shields dropping is too late. Once I have blasted through their shields they are dead.

It is rare that a shield tank can get away from my Maddies. They have, but not many. Not saying my Maddies are perfect. Losing them happens more than I like and it is much too expensive. One of the reason not to play Dust too long, this game is so weird in that playing costs game currency. Win or lose, you lose.

I am sorry but the entire idea of a 'glass cannon' tank makes no sense. Well, it might be worth thinking about except for the very actions of CCP. Specifically how can you shoot at range when there is no range in the game anymore? Tanks and turrets have gotten repeatedly ganked by the shank masters. FG and AV can get close enough to the red line that CCP's idea just cost anyone silly enough to listen to them a tank. Not to mention these forums and the chats are filled with QQs about red line tanks (but CCP likes it doesn't stem the tide of QQs).

My alt got in a tank fight tonight (UTC morning) and the Red tank fired from extreme (okay, Dust's pizz ant) range. I backed up, put on the hardener, enabled the missile damage mod, rolled forward and dumped a clip. Dead shield tank (C/1). I suspect that target acquisition focus cost them their tank (that a bad fit). With the exception of the blaster tanks both missile and rail guns have effective damage at exactly the same range. With hardeners coming with 2 second delays waiting until you see the shields dropping is too late. Once I have blasted through their shields they are dead.

It is rare that a shield tank can get away from my Maddies. They have, but not many. Not saying my Maddies are perfect. Losing them happens more than I like and it is much too expensive. One of the reason not to play Dust too long, this game is so weird in that playing costs game currency. Win or lose, you lose.

Lowering the cost of shield boosters would be quite nice, since the only thing that really makes the armour HAV stand out, is its ability to recover from damage.

Really, map and turret type decide more than the tanks themselves... Small maps leave every tanker in the redzone with a rail, or getting shot from the redzone by AV and Rails (why in the hell do such tiny maps exist anyway?)

But on the better maps it's really just turret preference... If the Maddi is sporting anything other than a blaster, you can run rings around it with a Gunni... If it's got a blaster, then rails are the best best, because even though missiles do a decent amount of damage, the turbo Maddi is going to be in range within seconds and when a blaster is in range, you're pretty much fooked.


Madrugas with rails are pretty laughable... Like a turtle with a slingshot.

Caldari isn't Galente enough, serious problem yo.

Missiles are almost absolutely pointless against an armor tank. Also, the blaster turret can probably dig through 2000-3000 of my shields before the shield hardener is up (My primary defense) which is a major issue. Armor tanks get a warning because they have shield as a buffer. Their majority of HP is Armor so they have plenty of time to turn on hardeners. Not fair.

What does that mean?

Non-EVE player.

They mean people are complaining that caldari aren't good at using fittings and tactics that the gallente are meant to use.

It works with just about every complaint about the caldari

To be fair though Shields are not well depicted in Dust nor are the Caldari. They are essentially the Amarr of Shields.

Sorry, I run XTs more than any other turret (I have yet to adjust to the heat reduced rail guns). I pop more armor tanks than shields. There are more armor on the field, so that is normal. But I can eat through their shields in just a few missiles and most of their armor in one clip. Fast reload and I can get enough back in the magazine to finish it off, even with hardeners and with repair going constantly. Every now and then I find a tanker that neither can get the edge over. Quite funny when it happens and we both have back off. Hoping for AV support or another tanker (or our side).

You are correct on their shield warning. I use Maddy shields as a I got shot flag.

To survive in a shield you must enter the fight with at least one hardener active. They reduce missile strikes by a significant amount. For blasters, you simply cannot get close to them. Armor or shield. Turning on a hardener after you get hit will usually be fruitless, as in you get no apple today - cause you're dead. 2 second delays are lethal. Two hardeners take 4-5 seconds to be active.

The great TANK SHANK of 1.7/1.8 redesigned tank warfare. It is quite a bit simpler, easier to understand, less rewarding and it moved me from shields to armor. As designed by CCP. That is what they stated they wanted to accomplish. Shields are glass cannons, meant to hit and run. Or come in close and die.

It worked. Of course, I have very few of my friends left here down in the dust.

Possibly not as they planned.

Sorry, I run XTs more than any other turret (I have yet to adjust to the heat reduced rail guns). I pop more armor tanks than shields. There are more armor on the field, so that is normal. But I can eat through their shields in just a few missiles and most of their armor in one clip. Fast reload and I can get enough back in the magazine to finish it off, even with hardeners and with repair going constantly. Every now and then I find a tanker that neither can get the edge over. Quite funny when it happens and we both have back off. Hoping for AV support or another tanker (or our side).

You are correct on their shield warning. I use Maddy shields as a I got shot flag.

To survive in a shield you must enter the fight with at least one hardener active. They reduce missile strikes by a significant amount. For blasters, you simply cannot get close to them. Armor or shield. Turning on a hardener after you get hit will usually be fruitless, as in you get no apple today - cause you're dead. 2 second delays are lethal. Two hardeners take 4-5 seconds to be active.

The great TANK SHANK of 1.7/1.8 redesigned tank warfare. It is quite a bit simpler, easier to understand, less rewarding and it moved me from shields to armor. As designed by CCP. That is what they stated they wanted to accomplish. Shields are glass cannons, meant to hit and run. Or come in close and die.

It worked. Of course, I have very few of my friends left here down in the dust.

Possibly not as they planned.

Putting two hardeners on a shield tank take up 40% of the CPU though.

Also, I doubt you are able to take out a proto madrugar with XT-201s too. My missiles even with damage mods barley scratch their armor while they just chip away at my shield with their blasters with ease.

Lowering the cost of shield boosters would be quite nice, since the only thing that really makes the armour HAV stand out, is its ability to recover from damage.

Really, map and turret type decide more than the tanks themselves... Small maps leave every tanker in the redzone with a rail, or getting shot from the redzone by AV and Rails (why in the hell do such tiny maps exist anyway?)

But on the better maps it's really just turret preference... If the Maddi is sporting anything other than a blaster, you can run rings around it with a Gunni... If it's got a blaster, then rails are the best best, because even though missiles do a decent amount of damage, the turbo Maddi is going to be in range within seconds and when a blaster is in range, you're pretty much fooked.


Madrugas with rails are pretty laughable... Like a turtle with a slingshot.

Lowering the cost of shield boosters would be quite nice, since the only thing that really makes the armour HAV stand out, is its ability to recover from damage.

Really, map and turret type decide more than the tanks themselves... Small maps leave every tanker in the redzone with a rail, or getting shot from the redzone by AV and Rails (why in the hell do such tiny maps exist anyway?)

But on the better maps it's really just turret preference... If the Maddi is sporting anything other than a blaster, you can run rings around it with a Gunni... If it's got a blaster, then rails are the best best, because even though missiles do a decent amount of damage, the turbo Maddi is going to be in range within seconds and when a blaster is in range, you're pretty much fooked.


Madrugas with rails are pretty laughable... Like a turtle with a slingshot.

Free access to fitting modules bro.

Free access to fitting modules bro.

What do you mean?

Fitting a Complex shield extender on Gunnlogi takes up 26.6% of CPU and 9% of the PG
ON the other hand, a Armor Hardener on a Madrugar takes up 13% CPU and 13% PG.

Unfair advantage for Armor Tanks.

3x CMP Shield Extenders and 2x ADV Hardeners with 1x ADV PG enhancer can amount to 6175 Shields and 10,000+ Effective Shielding in combat and fit any turret barring the Missile Launcher which requires a BSC CPU Upgrade. Thing about Shield HAV currently is that they have essentially unrestricted access to PG and CPU modifiers which can massive impact on how your fit your HAV.

So yes Shield Modules do cost a larger percentage of their base fitting allocation but can modify those allocations without sacrificing their racial tank.

Also why are you comparing a Shield Extender to an Armour Hardener. That's not a good comparison at all since one is a raw HP modifier while the other is an effective hit point modifier.

3x CMP Shield Extenders and 2x ADV Hardeners with 1x ADV PG enhancer can amount to 6175 Shields and 10,000+ Effective Shielding in combat and fit any turret barring the Missile Launcher which requires a BSC CPU Upgrade. Thing about Shield HAV currently is that they have essentially unrestricted access to PG and CPU modifiers which can massive impact on how your fit your HAV.

So yes Shield Modules do cost a larger percentage of their base fitting allocation but can modify those allocations without sacrificing their racial tank.

Also why are you comparing a Shield Extender to an Armour Hardener. That's not a good comparison at all since one is a raw HP modifier while the other is an effective hit point modifier.

??? so you have 6175 shields, a 4 sec delay and 126 shields a sec? No booster no nothing. How is that even a viable fit outside the redline? What are you going to do when you get attacked? Run to the redline? LOL.

Also, I'm comparing shield and Armor hardener.

Just a typo.

3x CMP Shield Extenders and 2x ADV Hardeners with 1x ADV PG enhancer can amount to 6175 Shields and 10,000+ Effective Shielding in combat and fit any turret barring the Missile Launcher which requires a BSC CPU Upgrade. Thing about Shield HAV currently is that they have essentially unrestricted access to PG and CPU modifiers which can massive impact on how your fit your HAV.

So yes Shield Modules do cost a larger percentage of their base fitting allocation but can modify those allocations without sacrificing their racial tank.

Also why are you comparing a Shield Extender to an Armour Hardener. That's not a good comparison at all since one is a raw HP modifier while the other is an effective hit point modifier.