DUST Search - Um, CCP... about the Apex...

CCP Rattati wrote:

CeeJ Mantis wrote:

The main concern I have for the APEX suits it that the marginalize the utility of basic bpos. Often times for similar or better fitting space, I have more slots. Fitting 2 complex repair modules on my basic commando was a difficult task, but fitting 3 enhanced ones can be done for less fitting. They end up being better than basic tier suits that I could make with a traditional bpo. Especially when weapons and modules overlap. Definitely makes my existing bpo suits obsolete. I did some math for the suits I didn't get yet, due to specific fitting preferences, and instead I can get them, and fit them better than previously.

There are arguments to be made for tieracide, and that apex suits have tremendous up-front costs, so them being equivalent to advanced or less suits is acceptable. My main concern is that its hard to justify shelling out cash for that bpo you wanted, or get excited for one you recieved in a strongbox when you have an apex suit, or can get one. It also hurts the secondary resale value of old bpos as anything more than skins (after future adjustments make them into a skin/bpo). While I argueably recieved value from my old items, I doubt people will want to buy them in the future.

Good points

There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Apocalyptic Destroyer L.O.T.I.S. 481	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:29:00 - [31] - Quote Dropship One wrote: Amar APEX suits with Proto scramblers. Great:( Guess who was the only guy to get the Apex Amarr Commando :) This guy. I'll have fun frying you all with my laser from 100meters out and If any of you think of coming close I'll bring out my AScR True Amarr In Disguise Pain is Weakness Leaving the Body. In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
Dropship One DROPSHIP ONE OPERATIONS 5	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:29:00 - [32] - Quote Does anyone know if you can duplicate a APEX suit? I haven't tried.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8438	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:33:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: CeeJ Mantis wrote: The main concern I have for the APEX suits it that the marginalize the utility of basic bpos. Often times for similar or better fitting space, I have more slots. Fitting 2 complex repair modules on my basic commando was a difficult task, but fitting 3 enhanced ones can be done for less fitting. They end up being better than basic tier suits that I could make with a traditional bpo. Especially when weapons and modules overlap. Definitely makes my existing bpo suits obsolete. I did some math for the suits I didn't get yet, due to specific fitting preferences, and instead I can get them, and fit them better than previously. There are arguments to be made for tieracide, and that apex suits have tremendous up-front costs, so them being equivalent to advanced or less suits is acceptable. My main concern is that its hard to justify shelling out cash for that bpo you wanted, or get excited for one you recieved in a strongbox when you have an apex suit, or can get one. It also hurts the secondary resale value of old bpos as anything more than skins (after future adjustments make them into a skin/bpo). While I argueably recieved value from my old items, I doubt people will want to buy them in the future. Good points I'll weight in here. Shogun sentinel. Freedom AHMG. I love that gun. Hat's off. it's lethal as hell without being god-tier, and the calsent is holding up smashingly well vs. armor tanks. Have yet to test the minsent. Honest opinion Rattati? I think a tiericide solution would be the answer. But I understand this would be a pain in the ass rework on the database and I imagine that's part of why it's a dirty word. if you did it, I would recommend making the PG/CPU increase based off of the dropsuit skill. So at level 0 you get the basic apex, and at level 5 you have a proto suit PG/CPU base and just increment it up. Make the APEX package come with a single BPO of each item included in the APEX fit, and put the individual BPOs onto the loyalty market for 40,000 LP. 4,000,000 ISK each (or the equivalent AUR cost). Or just enjoy the fact that APEX come with pre-loaded mods and regular BPOs do not. Especially since the APEX BPOs include fittings that cannot be found on the AURUM market. Lots of ways to play, and I'm actually enjoying the hell out of this change. Ok done spergin' about APEX. Off to shoot more mans and waste more HMGs on enemy squads who chew my ass up. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8438	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:35:00 - [34] - Quote Dropship One wrote: Does anyone know if you can duplicate a APEX suit? I haven't tried. You can. Just did it to check. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Dropship One DROPSHIP ONE OPERATIONS 5	Posted - 2015.05.07 17:41:00 - [35] - Quote Thanks. I'm tired of work getting in the way of DUST.
bogeyman m Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 458	Posted - 2015.05.07 18:57:00 - [36] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Heh, someone might actually use a fitting upgrade. Honestly I think APEXes should be restricted to just STD modules, if possible. The only problem with them was that some of them had suboptimal fits and they were inflexible, not a lack of power. APEXes were very useful items - now they've effectively been buffed so that they're at least equivalent to an ADV suit BPO. This^ Professional Logibro and avid AVer -- I support my team for the ISK, but I blow up vehicles for the LOLz.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3451	Posted - 2015.05.07 19:05:00 - [37] - Quote Wait what.... we can actually adjust our APEX suit's fitting now?! When did this happen!? OMG awesome, I've not long been home from work but damn! I need to get logged into DUST asap to check this out! Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Anaheim Darko Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion. 452	Posted - 2015.05.07 19:26:00 - [38] - Quote Added proto uplinks. Check. Create another fit with proto light weapon. Check. Whilst I love it, the othe BPOs need some love now, or we'll see a nerf incoming next hotfix. Caldari Assault ck.0. Caldari Scout ck.0.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8438	Posted - 2015.05.07 19:32:00 - [39] - Quote Anaheim Darko wrote: Added proto uplinks. Check. Create another fit with proto light weapon. Check. Whilst I love it, the othe BPOs need some love now, or we'll see a nerf incoming next hotfix. doubt it. We're more likely to see a buff and AUR prices normalized, or the other BPOs replaced with SKINS and the APEX sub-pros replacing them. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 5148	Posted - 2015.05.07 20:08:00 - [40] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Was the intention to allow prototype to be placed on these things? I know the fitting is kind of low at the moment, but... I can stick on proto weapons now, even complex modules... like... the fitting capacity can be bumped up easily with PG and CPU modules, and then you're pretty much free to put anything you want on them, while removing the cost of the suit you're modifying. I like the fact that I can put my skin on it, but I'm not sure if allowing all module, equipment and weapon levels was a good idea. Costs about 80k can make a std suit almost as good 20k that's an extra 4 deaths if you're poor Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

ROMULUS H3X research lab 518	Posted - 2015.05.07 20:20:00 - [41] - Quote Are you bloody serious? I went out of my way to not get an APEX suit because it's not customizable and non of the suits fit my playstyle, and now you went and made them custumizable? Screw you. I'm dead serious. Screw you. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 104	Posted - 2015.05.07 20:41:00 - [42] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Are you bloody serious? I went out of my way to not get an APEX suit because it's not customizable and non of the suits fit my playstyle, and now you went and made them custumizable? Screw you. I'm dead serious. Screw you. I don't understand your anger. Is it cause you're beating yourself up for not buying one when you had the chance? You can still buy them in the marketplace. CEO / Art.of.Death
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization 1727	Posted - 2015.05.07 21:39:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ice Royal Glantix wrote: Apex "Hawk" Scout 'Exile' Assault Rifle 'Toxin' ICD-9 SMG Flux Grenade Compact Nanohive Compact Nanohive Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Basic Profile Dampener Advanced Profile Dampener It's not as good as proto, but this is still a bit too powerful for 22k in my opinion. Removing the cloak saves a huge amount of fitting room, and is quite easy to abuse to create fits like this. removing the cloak should give zero extra fitting, that was a loophole that was to be addressed. It's late here in shanghai, will study this all tomorrow It shows as 0CPU/0PG on my Republic Tiger Scout. 'LR4-Trading' Protester
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization 1727	Posted - 2015.05.07 21:40:00 - [44] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Are you bloody serious? I went out of my way to not get an APEX suit because it's not customizable and non of the suits fit my playstyle, and now you went and made them custumizable? Screw you. I'm dead serious. Screw you. No FOTW for you. 'LR4-Trading' Protester
DozersMouse XIII Nos Nothi 1066	Posted - 2015.05.07 21:42:00 - [45] - Quote I think apex suits should only be able to swap current modules and weapons with other standard modules and weapons Shotgun me once, shame on me Shotgun me twice, scans on you
Quil Evrything Nos Nothi 2141	Posted - 2015.05.07 21:46:00 - [46] - Quote DozersMouse XIII wrote: I think apex suits should only be able to swap current modules and weapons with other standard modules and weapons I may not disagree with you. however, I was suddenly hit by the discontinuity of the name. If that becomes the case... the name is then (once more) completely inappropriate. They are nowhere near the "Apex" of dropsuits :-}
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization 1727	Posted - 2015.05.07 21:50:00 - [47] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: DozersMouse XIII wrote: I think apex suits should only be able to swap current modules and weapons with other standard modules and weapons I may not disagree with you. however, I was suddenly hit by the discontinuity of the name. If that becomes the case... the name is then (once more) completely inappropriate. They are nowhere near the "Apex" of dropsuits :-} No, just the apex of BPOs I guess. Only the AUR ones are actually called APEX, no dirty APEX label on mine only Republic, Federation and Imperial. 'LR4-Trading' Protester
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 290	Posted - 2015.05.07 23:54:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: send us your terrorfits to [email protected], we are trying our best to give freedom to users, without breaking the system. Make APEX suits "cool" but don't give me the option of making them too powerful, perhaps make APEX's a separate category in suit fitting that does not count toward the 30 limit (this may be possible because APEXs have less options than the other suits) and allow very limited options such as flux or locus. Basic scanner or basic needle etc.
Mr.Pepe Le Pew Art.of.Death 105	Posted - 2015.05.08 17:50:00 - [49] - Quote Why do we post about APEX suits assuming there's something wrong with them? I read post after post suggesting different ideas on how to CHANGE them. As they are right now, they're not OP. Anyone who suggests anything is OP is taken from a small sample: your crappy gameplay. Just outsmart your opponent, take different routes, quite whining. If you think APEX is OP and you're constantly getting killed by them. Counter them. Sheesh. APEX suits are awesome now. They even out the playing field without the risk of losing too much isk. CEO / Art.of.Death
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1478	Posted - 2015.05.08 23:02:00 - [50] - Quote The Apex fit I settled with costs me 37k isk, my advanced which kicks it's ass... a whole 10k more thinking I might just upgrade the dmg mods on it and call it a day for that suit from now on.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8463	Posted - 2015.05.08 23:08:00 - [51] - Quote Mr.Pepe Le Pew wrote: Why do we post about APEX suits assuming there's something wrong with them? Hell dude, if this is wrong, I don't wanna be right. Seriously, this is more fun. There's never enough sh**posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Balamob Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 55	Posted - 2015.05.09 14:12:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ice Royal Glantix wrote: Apex "Hawk" Scout 'Exile' Assault Rifle 'Toxin' ICD-9 SMG Flux Grenade Compact Nanohive Compact Nanohive Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Basic Profile Dampener Advanced Profile Dampener It's not as good as proto, but this is still a bit too powerful for 22k in my opinion. Removing the cloak saves a huge amount of fitting room, and is quite easy to abuse to create fits like this. removing the cloak should give zero extra fitting, that was a loophole that was to be addressed. It's late here in shanghai, will study this all tomorrow Not even the 40 cpu/7.5 pg when u have lvl 5 scout? exMAG vet. Sver faction
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5887	Posted - 2015.05.09 16:02:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: send us your terrorfits to [email protected], we are trying our best to give freedom to users, without breaking the system. You did that the moment you removed risk vs reward from the ******* game. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8491	Posted - 2015.05.09 16:09:00 - [54] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: send us your terrorfits to [email protected], we are trying our best to give freedom to users, without breaking the system. You did that the moment you removed risk vs reward from the ******* game. Do you ever have anything constructive to say? or do you just like shtposting? There's never enough sh*posting going on, so let's add a few more teaspoons of the guy posting after me to the recipie!
Yoda Boss Dem Durrty Boyz 42	Posted - 2015.05.09 16:43:00 - [55] - Quote I dont know what to say about this. Now I can run a 1000hp free suit and free modules with my boundless hmg. I'm just happy I have an lp apex to try it out on. It's actually 973hp cuz I had to fit the core grenade. My suit used to cost 150k. Just paying for the gun and grenades now. Thanks. Free BPO for New Recruits https://dust514.com/recruit/fCH9zc/ smokingdrinkingsmokingdrinking
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5888	Posted - 2015.05.09 18:26:00 - [56] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: send us your terrorfits to [email protected], we are trying our best to give freedom to users, without breaking the system. You did that the moment you removed risk vs reward from the ******* game. Do you ever have anything constructive to say? or do you just like shtposting? Sure. Remove APEX from the game and refund the Aurum. Then put in an ISK destroyed stat so the meta can actually function like it was originally supposed to -- with schadenfreude being the primary motivation behind any engagement. You know, it being the sole thing* that has kept EVE as popular as it has throughout the years. There, something constructive. Shouldn't have had to say it, but I suppose posting a lot doesn't actually mean a person is entirely holistic. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Archer Killian A13 SHIELD 1	Posted - 2015.05.09 19:36:00 - [57] - Quote Apex suits... mmm, shiny "The best enemy is the one that shoots at you all game... and misses!" Dedicated Commando:- All races
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 973	Posted - 2015.05.09 21:46:00 - [58] - Quote Honestly i dont see a issue here. Just do tericide for dropsuits and call it a day. Give all Suits the same slot layout as proto so the only thing that gets better over tiers is PG/CPU. We have the same thing with tanks so why shouldnt this work with our dropsuits? If this would make it into the game then the apex suits have only a marginally advantage with slightly better PG/CPU then a standard suit. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5893	Posted - 2015.05.10 10:58:00 - [59] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Honestly i dont see a issue here. Just do tericide for dropsuits and call it a day. Give all Suits the same slot layout as proto so the only thing that gets better over tiers is PG/CPU. We have the same thing with tanks so why shouldnt this work with our dropsuits? If this would make it into the game then the apex suits have only a marginally advantage with slightly better PG/CPU then a standard suit. Contrary to popular belief, making everything the same does not actually make a game more interesting. For example proto suits of the armored variety can run 3 myo's. Lesser suits cannot. Very big difference in what is capable here, and if tiericide happened to them it would change how those suits are used in a big way for pubs. That's just one example. Plenty of low input mods that can be stacked for a specific role only currently available to proto. Usually banned for being too awesome.
cammando 007 Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 16	Posted - 2015.05.10 11:24:00 - [60] - Quote how about allowing them to use all modules but only factional modules could use a few tweakes though



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