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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
771
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Posted - 2015.04.19 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Actual feed back, not a whine thread, promise.
I'm a Galmando enthusiast. Purely for the PLC, you understand, but the AR fits well with the suit on paper so I try and make it work. In short, it doesn't. Here's why:
Standard assault rifle: -clip size and damage per shot is good. -ROF and dispersion in hip fire is awful; compare the feel of the AR to, say, the ACR; the latter feels like it is pushing out an uninterrupted stream of bullets that go pretty much where you point the gun. The former fires slower, with a much (I feel) wider spray, making missed shots a more prominent occurrence that costs you a significant portion of your potential applied dps. -effective range compounds the above issue further; against other Rifles the AR user needs to close in quickly, which is a risk, and then engage opponents well within HMG, CR and Scram effective ranges. It also puts the user at greater risk to quick counters from shotgun scouts. There is no reward for the risk in regards to performance. The AR is not the blaster of EvE. -also, those iron sights. Thanks CCP. Cheers.
Burst AR: -better in every respect to the standard rifle. Tighter hip fire. Reasonable scope. ROF is solid for those with a steady trigger finger. -again, though, effective range is an issue. It feels great until you engage a min assault with a CR at 60m out, at which point you get destroyed utterly. Which is a shame. To what degree this issue is down to the CR being too good and the AR being innately poor is up for discussion.
Breach AR: -also good. Again, tight hip fire, good damage, reasonable range. Will actually hurt stuff, can CQC. clip size is a fair balancing factor. -doesn't really need to be touched.
TAC -the best, by far. Maybe even a bit too good; the recent increase to clip size has made it a much less tactical weapon. You can just spray and pray withvitnwith decent results. -keep as is for now.
Conclusion; the standard variant is just poor. It's too short ranged, too underpowered, not accurate enough. I propose that we tighten the dispersion so it's closer to the burst and then up the ROF to 900, dropping the damage per bullet slightly to compensate. But it needs some serious punch if it's designed to be the CQC brawler we expect it to be.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18349
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Posted - 2015.04.19 20:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Actual feed back, not a whine thread, promise.
I'm a Galmando enthusiast. Purely for the PLC, you understand, but the AR fits well with the suit on paper so I try and make it work. In short, it doesn't. Here's why:
Standard assault rifle: -clip size and damage per shot is good. -ROF and dispersion in hip fire is awful; compare the feel of the AR to, say, the ACR; the latter feels like it is pushing out an uninterrupted stream of bullets that go pretty much where you point the gun. The former fires slower, with a much (I feel) wider spray, making missed shots a more prominent occurrence that costs you a significant portion of your potential applied dps. -effective range compounds the above issue further; against other Rifles the AR user needs to close in quickly, which is a risk, and then engage opponents well within HMG, CR and Scram effective ranges. It also puts the user at greater risk to quick counters from shotgun scouts. There is no reward for the risk in regards to performance. The AR is not the blaster of EvE. -also, those iron sights. Thanks CCP. Cheers.
Agreed with your first point though not so much on the second being a big fan of the hipfire in close quarters combat as it makes firing from the hip very manageable. Won't comment on ranges. And you do not love the Ironsights?
However I'm a total rookie picking up the AR with the impending ScR nerfs on the horizon but I find the weapon to feel great to use and is really pretty good at doing what it should.
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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Genral69 death
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
167
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Posted - 2015.04.19 23:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
I too agree that the basic assault rifle lacks slightly. It believe its the rate of fire compared to other weapons. Could we try it with faster fire rate but abit less damage ? Also not sure I anyone else noticed this but the breach ar fires alot faster then it used to but the range has been lowered even further
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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Lightning35 Delta514
48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE
270
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Posted - 2015.04.19 23:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
That's what I said along time ago and people ignored and said I was whining. I my self have noticed a big decrease in assault rifle usage in the kill board. You will see breach, tac and burst, but few to no assault rifles. I propose-
Tactical assault rifle- perfect. Don't touch it.
Breach assault rifle- It's very good right now. Don't touch it.
Burst assault rifle-INCREASE RANGE
Assault rifle- INCREASE ROF and DECREASE dispersion.
And give us standard versions of the burst and tac.
48th Special Operations Force.
Twitter- @48SOF
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Kalante Schiffer
Ancient Exiles.
1096
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Posted - 2015.04.20 01:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
yep. If rattati buffs the AR duvolle also buff the officer weapons accordingly. Last time that we got a RoF and mag increase the officer weapons got untouched. Next buff, AR's are gonna have almost identical stats because we are buffing them but not the officer AR's defeating the purpose of the stats given to the officer AR's to be OP. To me the officer AR's are what the regular weapons should have been.
The Tac AR is the only one that is the overachiever of all the variants. I don't know why it needs a buff last time we saw.
AE. Ringing fee. 2 isk.
yahoo is full of racists
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DR DEESE NUTS
85
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Posted - 2015.04.20 01:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's kind of funny that the ascr is the best cqc rifle against shield rather then the ar. The Ar always gets the short end of the stick.
The USS m`dick
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Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
3021
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Posted - 2015.04.20 01:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Buff AR ROF to 850 and call it a day.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
10199
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Posted - 2015.04.20 02:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
The TAC AR needs its mag sized reduced.
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18365
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Posted - 2015.04.20 02:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ignore
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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The Eristic
Dust 90210
901
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Posted - 2015.04.20 03:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Would probably be ok with higher RoF on vanilla. Kinda wish they all had different sights.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Genral69 death
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
168
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Posted - 2015.04.20 09:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:yep. If rattati buffs the AR duvolle also buff the officer weapons accordingly. Last time that we got a RoF and mag increase the officer weapons got untouched. Next buff, AR's are gonna have almost identical stats because we are buffing them but not the officer AR's defeating the purpose of the stats given to the officer AR's to be OP. To me the officer AR's are what the regular weapons should have been.
The Tac AR is the only one that is the overachiever of all the variants. I don't know why it needs a buff last time we saw.
I wouldn't say the tac ar needs a buff or even a nurf. . Its great at range but if you get into a cqc battle you need a good sidearm orvone damn good triga finger
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion.
348
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Posted - 2015.04.20 10:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
I don't think it needs a buff... It deals with shield bros pretty well...
A slight increase to optimal is all i can say... I guess.
The ADS tourney! Join today!
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
23262
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Posted - 2015.04.20 10:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm not convinced it needs significant buffing.
I'd like a reflex sight, because I've always hated the ironsights. I rarely have problems with the hipfire on the standard variant, although I have fully maxed the plasma rifle and the Galassault, so that's already a 50% reduction.
Range... I don't think it should be a long range weapon. But if it's not genuinely worth the range tradeoff for CQC strength, that's the real problem.
Gallente Guide
one day i may leave the basement but that day is not today
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
473
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
The normal ar seriously falls short in range ..tbh if they left it how it is and gave it a range buff it would be awesome ..but then recently I used my alt and it sucks with no skill invested..i forgot how much kick it has without sharp shooter
I don't really understand the level of QQ over the normal ar ..it may be slightly up ..but not majorly ..I've broken 30 with it on a adv gal assault
The death of love
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Maiden selena MORTIMOR
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
473
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I'm not convinced it needs significant buffing.
I'd like a reflex sight, because I've always hated the ironsights. I rarely have problems with the hipfire on the standard variant, although I have fully maxed the plasma rifle and the Galassault, so that's already a 50% reduction.
Range... I don't think it should be a long range weapon. But if it's not genuinely worth the range tradeoff for CQC strength, that's the real problem. I think it's operating as a solid average gun and ccp should Buff it's range slightly ..because it doesn't really shine in cqc ..but i mean 20 to 45 it's great ..If only that was maybe 60 ..Ide be happy acr..seriously wrecks ar at range
I ******* wish ccp would give guns more reflex sights the smg has the model ..
But overall I kill pretty efficiently with ar
The death of love
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
10209
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:44:00 -
[16] - Quote
The only issue I have with the AR is that the assault variants of other weapons are clearly better in a lot of situations.
It's not like this burst and combat, or scrambler and TAC.
But Assault Rail vs. AR or ACR vs. AR. You see there's an imbalance. They shouldn't be as good as their primary variants but they should be good in their own racial areas of that variant weapon.
Not better all around.
As long as 5/6 (83%) of infantry AV weapons are Anti Armor based you're never going to achieve vehicle balance CCP
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Edgar Reinhart
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
95
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:The only issue I have with the AR is that the assault variants of other weapons are clearly better in a lot of situations.
Was going to type this. Someone already has so I'll put something else here instead. |
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
772
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 12:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks for the input peeps.
I've got three ranks in gal assault and five in sharpshooter, and the difference in performance for the standard variant when those two are combined is remarkable. My main issue with the AR is that once I've closed the distance to my target I have no desire to ADS because I'm absolutely in the thick of it, so I need to keep moving or I'm dead. Now, with max sharpshooter on a non-gal assault the AR just doesn't hit hard enough, quickly enough, with the right amount of precision. I often feel like they got some aspects of the CR and AR mixed up; projectile weapons are the very definition of the spray and pray philosophy, and they're not supposed to be consistently accurate at any range save point blank. Blasters, by turn, have a tiny effective range, but once you're in it, it will consistently deliver brutal carnage. But as it stands the CR has amazing hip fire, precision accuracy at range and a TAC-like clip. The AR is spray, spray and die horribly. It only performs when it tried to emulate other racial rifle types.
So, I again propose: -an increase to ROF to 850. -minor reduction to damage per bullet, but with an overall invpcrease to DPS. -for the baseline dispersion in hip fire to be equivalent to what a gal assault with sharpshooter currently enjoys; somewhere around the 30%-40% mark. -keep optimal as it is, reduce falloff further to compensate for increase to damage potential and application. -and, as a pie-in-the-sky idea, for the whole lineup to have access to the charge-shot of the of the ion pistol. I've been using it recently due to Sgt. kirk's videos, and it is the perfect gallanente weapon in terms of doctrine and execution. It needs to put the fear of God back into people at CQC ranges, or at least stay competitive to a HMG.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Alena Ventrallis
Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback
3024
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 18:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
I only agree with buffing the ROF. Gallente are actually quite similar to Minmatar in terms of warfare philosophy: get in close and start hosing everything. The details differ (plasma vs projectiles) but the basic strategy remains the same.
As such, there needs to be some inaccuracy in the PR in order to have the spray part down.The current problem is they are simply inferior to the CR, and not just because of armor meta. A buff to ROF will let them outDPS all other assault variant by a significant margin, save the AScR which Rattati has already stated should break the DPS/range curve due to heat. IMO, the way the PR performs on a Galmando feels like how it should perform in general.
Whirly gun make much thunder! - Victor
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The Eristic
Dust 90210
902
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Posted - 2015.04.20 19:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:-and, as a pie-in-the-sky idea, for the whole lineup to have access to the charge-shot of the of the ion pistol.
Not necessarily pie-in-the-sky. Every weapon already has the potential for charge functionality per the SDE, just needs to be turned on by changing the fire mode attribute and assigning values in a couple places. You'll lose full auto, though.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
774
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Which kind of makes it a moot point, I guess. Ah well.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Vesta Opalus
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
626
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Posted - 2015.04.20 20:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote:Actual feed back, not a whine thread, promise.
I'm a Galmando enthusiast. Purely for the PLC, you understand, but the AR fits well with the suit on paper so I try and make it work. In short, it doesn't. Here's why:
Standard assault rifle: -clip size and damage per shot is good. -ROF and dispersion in hip fire is awful; compare the feel of the AR to, say, the ACR; the latter feels like it is pushing out an uninterrupted stream of bullets that go pretty much where you point the gun. The former fires slower, with a much (I feel) wider spray, making missed shots a more prominent occurrence that costs you a significant portion of your potential applied dps. -effective range compounds the above issue further; against other Rifles the AR user needs to close in quickly, which is a risk, and then engage opponents well within HMG, CR and Scram effective ranges. It also puts the user at greater risk to quick counters from shotgun scouts. There is no reward for the risk in regards to performance. The AR is not the blaster of EvE. -also, those iron sights. Thanks CCP. Cheers.
Burst AR: -better in every respect to the standard rifle. Tighter hip fire. Reasonable scope. ROF is solid for those with a steady trigger finger. -again, though, effective range is an issue. It feels great until you engage a min assault with a CR at 60m out, at which point you get destroyed utterly. Which is a shame. To what degree this issue is down to the CR being too good and the AR being innately poor is up for discussion.
Breach AR: -also good. Again, tight hip fire, good damage, reasonable range. Will actually hurt stuff, can CQC. clip size is a fair balancing factor. -doesn't really need to be touched.
TAC -the best, by far. Maybe even a bit too good; the recent increase to clip size has made it a much less tactical weapon. You can just spray and pray withvitnwith decent results. -keep as is for now.
Conclusion; the standard variant is just poor. It's too short ranged, too underpowered, not accurate enough. I propose that we tighten the dispersion so it's closer to the burst and then up the ROF to 900, dropping the damage per bullet slightly to compensate. But it needs some serious punch if it's designed to be the CQC brawler we expect it to be.
Kind of agree with all your points, except considering how meta favors anti armor CR weaponry vs. the anti shield plasma junk, Im not sure these weapons are bad enough to need buffing (especially considering how bad shield suits are right now).
TAC AR is outperformed by the scrambler right now, and I think the TAC AR may need a little bit of a nerf, but I'd want to see how things settle out after scrambler nerf first.
I think your analysis of range is spot on in terms of leaving you too open to certain weapons in normal usage (ex. HMG's and all that good stuff) and I think if any buff is needed to the AR, we might want to do it by increasing effective/optimal ranges to just under the combat rifle's, instead of buffing damage (this is effectively a damage buff anyway since you will be getting higher damage at longer ranges, just that the damage caps off at the 100% effective mark). |
Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
774
|
Posted - 2015.04.20 21:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
The thing is, if we buff it with range increases it just becomes another combat rifle. And where's the fun in that? I'm actually happy with it being point-blank range in effectiveness, that can be its neiche, it just needs to be able to have the attributes that allow it to do so.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Bishop Harcourt
K-A-O-S theory
17
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Posted - 2015.04.21 13:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
There should not be an Assault variation that outclasses the Gallente Plasma Rifle There should not be a Tactical variation that outclasses the Amarr Scrambler Rifle There should not be a Burst variation that outclasses the Minmatar Combat Rifle There should not be a Breach variation that outclasses the Caldari Rail Rifle
Logibro,
Director,
KAOS THEORY's Official Minister of Science and Magic.
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Genral69 death
Random Gunz Rise Of Legion.
170
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Posted - 2015.04.21 14:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bishop Harcourt wrote:There should not be an Assault variation that outclasses the Gallente Plasma Rifle There should not be a Tactical variation that outclasses the Amarr Scrambler Rifle There should not be a Burst variation that outclasses the Minmatar Combat Rifle There should not be a Breach variation that outclasses the Caldari Rail Rifle 1) the tactical does not out do the scrambled rifle , the scrambled has more in the clip and more accurate at range 2) the burst is not anywhere near as close to the combat rifle. The combate has better acuracy when hip firing and has more range, let alone being Amor based 3) the breach like the rail . The rail has (yet again) better range, where as the breach as little range. Rail is good for distance and the breach is good cqc .
General limited: warming failure to pay, may lead to death,massive amount of pain or even lose of family. Since 1995
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