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[Brain storm] Loyalty rank, can we earn it faster

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Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9214	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:14:00 - [1] - Quote Gentlenerds of GD, The new player trading system requires players to be loyalty rank 4 before they can trade items. CCP Rattati has stated there are some exploits that are prevented by doing this, and I believe him. The issue is then becomes how can players who are not yet sure if they want to purchase AUR or not able to earn loyalty rank 4 before they die from old age? I suggest that on weekends* all activities that generate loyalty experience be increased; doubled, maybe even tripled. Perhaps we could increase the value of loyalty experience for WPs from 500 WP / 1 loyalty -> 250 WP / 1 loyalty Do you have any other ideas? *: Friday DT - Monday DT @Ripley_Riley
Cody Sietz Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 4475	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:15:00 - [2] - Quote Is rank 4 that hard to get to? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9214	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:18:00 - [3] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Depends on who you ask. Some players insist that it takes months of steady gameplay, others say a couple weeks. Since loyalty experience is accrued based on things like WPs earned, daily logins, and victories then that statement is probably modified by how a "gud" a player is. @Ripley_Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8085	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:19:00 - [4] - Quote I would actually offer that this is one place where I would like to see CCP's love for exponential cost multipliers go away. THe system should be simple, easy to track and reward player effort more. I understand that WP thresholds offer a point, I understand victories offer 4 points. but once you hit much past rank 5 the threshold for match earnings vs. aurum earnings is wildly evident. Earning a rank per month of hardcore play isn't an unreasonable thing, as at that pace a year and a half passes. a rank every two months of more casual, though regular play seems reasonable as well. if someone's been here for a year and a half, or two years, three? Odds are they're in it for the long-haul, and odds are they've blown a portion of their wallet for something like boosters anyway. I'd say they're pretty loyal. AV
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn 3089	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:23:00 - [5] - Quote Can't say: played intensively for 1 year and a half ( since the beginning to the Rouge Wedding :p ) bought 2 merc packs, and like 40k arum once. Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 169	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:23:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I would actually offer that this is one place where I would like to see CCP's love for exponential cost multipliers go away. THe system should be simple, easy to track and reward player effort more. I understand that WP thresholds offer a point, I understand victories offer 4 points. but once you hit much past rank 5 the threshold for match earnings vs. aurum earnings is wildly evident. Earning a rank per month of hardcore play isn't an unreasonable thing, as at that pace a year and a half passes. a rank every two months of more casual, though regular play seems reasonable as well. if someone's been here for a year and a half, or two years, three? Odds are they're in it for the long-haul, and odds are they've blown a portion of their wallet for something like boosters anyway. I'd say they're pretty loyal. It was quite a letdown for me when I saw my loyalty rank for the first time, just after they were introduced. It was rank 1 then, and I think it might be rank 2 now... Jack-of-most-trades, master of one.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9214	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:24:00 - [7] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I would actually offer that this is one place where I would like to see CCP's love for exponential cost multipliers go away. The system should be simple, easy to track and reward player effort more. There does seem to be a sharp increase in loyalty experience required when players advance to rank 6 - 8. It's a steep jump. I'm loyalty rank 11 and to get to 12 would cost me hundreds of dollars and thousands of matches. It's pretty insane. @Ripley_Riley
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9214	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:25:00 - [8] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. I believe Kane Spero confirmed that getting loyalty rank 4, from 0, costs roughly $20 worth of AUR. I personally don't think that is asking for much, but to a new player that is a high investment for a game you just downloaded two days ago. @Ripley_Riley
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn 3089	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:31:00 - [9] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. I believe Kane Spero confirmed that getting loyalty rank 4, from 0, costs roughly $20 worth of AUR. I personally don't think that is asking for much, but to a new player that is a high investment for a game you just downloaded two days ago. Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 8086	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:34:00 - [10] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. I believe Kane Spero confirmed that getting loyalty rank 4, from 0, costs roughly $20 worth of AUR. I personally don't think that is asking for much, but to a new player that is a high investment for a game you just downloaded two days ago. Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! aurum has a really low per-unit value. I think levelling off the actual rank requirement and capping how much you can get from aur purchases only might help a bit. but I'm just brainstorming right now. If I were to do matches to my next rank, it'll take over 129,000 victories to hit the next rank. that seems... excessive. AV

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9214	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:34:00 - [11] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! It's not that AUR is a higher reward, it is just faster. 2 AUR = 1 loyalty 1 match = 2 loyalty 1 victory = +2 loyalty 500 WPs = 1 loyalty 1 daily login = 5 loyalty Logging in daily, actively participating in matches, and earning victories does earn you loyalty experience... but no where near as quickly as just paying $20. @Ripley_Riley
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9214	Posted - 2015.04.15 14:36:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Aurum has a really low per-unit value. I think leveling off the actual rank requirement and capping how much you can get from aur purchases only might help a bit. but I'm just brainstorming right now. If I were to do matches to my next rank, it'll take over 129,000 victories to hit the next rank. that seems... excessive. It is excessive. I know Rattati has to prioritize changes based on reward vs. effort. What would be easier for him to change: the exponential rate loyalty experience requirements increase or the value of certain loyalty experience values? @Ripley_Riley
Harpyja 2372	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:19:00 - [13] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Yes. I'm only rank 2. Almooooost rank 3. Also, why not make SP factor into loyalty rank as well? Say something like 500 points for every 1 mil SP? Because I have 30 million SP yet I'm only rank 2, and my alt is somewhere around 17 million SP and only rank 1. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9218	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:21:00 - [14] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Yes. I'm only rank 2. Almooooost rank 3. How long have you been playing? Have you purchased any AUR? @Ripley_Riley
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4300	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:25:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Gentlenerds of GD, The new player trading system requires players to be loyalty rank 4 before they can trade items. CCP Rattati has stated there are some exploits that are prevented by doing this, and I believe him. The issue is then becomes how can players who are not yet sure if they want to purchase AUR or not able to earn loyalty rank 4 before they die from old age? I suggest that on weekends* all activities that generate loyalty experience be increased; doubled, maybe even tripled. Perhaps we could increase the value of loyalty experience for WPs from 500 WP / 1 loyalty -> 250 WP / 1 loyalty Do you have any other ideas? *: Friday DT - Monday DT My pet project here is to introduce life time achievements (ribbons, medals, trophies, whatever you'd like to call them). Have a wide and diverse array of them spanning all activities in match and with multiple layers of depth and difficulty. Each one would grant a one time XP boost to your Loyalty Rank upon completion with the more difficult and esoteric achievements granting a proportionally larger amount of LR XP. This not only allows for more activity vectors to earn LR XP, it also provides a set of scaled values (much like the XP requirements for ranks are currently) so that as players progress a character in the game they are still able to meaningfully impact their rank through active play even as they reach higher levels of LR. 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Another thought I've had is including LR XP as a reward item earn-able from the completion of daily missions. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Harpyja 2372	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:28:00 - [16] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Harpyja wrote: Yes. I'm only rank 2. Almooooost rank 3. How long have you been playing? Have you purchased any AUR? Since before open beta. Granted that I have been at college for the last year and a half and it has severely cut down on my playtime, I feel like I should have at least rank 4. Isn't my SP enough to show for it? "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4300	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:29:00 - [17] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Yes. I'm only rank 2. Almooooost rank 3. Also, why not make SP factor into loyalty rank as well? Say something like 500 points for every 1 mil SP? Because I have 30 million SP yet I'm only rank 2, and my alt is somewhere around 17 million SP and only rank 1. Using raw SP totals is problematic because of the nature of SP gains themselves. WPs already factor in, thus adding SP would compound the gains from WP. AUR already factors in, thus adding SP would compound the gains from AUR (if any boosters are used) SP can be gained passively by simply creating a character and letting it sit, thus adding SP would allow ranks to be earned while not even playing the game in any manner (this is feeds into the alt farming issue directly). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Harpyja 2372	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:33:00 - [18] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Harpyja wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Yes. I'm only rank 2. Almooooost rank 3. Also, why not make SP factor into loyalty rank as well? Say something like 500 points for every 1 mil SP? Because I have 30 million SP yet I'm only rank 2, and my alt is somewhere around 17 million SP and only rank 1. Using raw SP totals is problematic because of the nature of SP gains themselves. WPs already factor in, thus adding SP would compound the gains from WP. AUR already factors in, thus adding SP would compound the gains from AUR (if any boosters are used) SP can be gained passively by simply creating a character and letting it sit, thus adding SP would allow ranks to be earned while not even playing the game in any manner (this is feeds into the alt farming issue directly). Thing is though that it would still take a very long time of just passive SP to get to rank 4. I seriously feel like SP should also be counted as well. SP per WP ratios have changed several times. I have played since Mordu's Trials, have only 30 million SP due to college, yet I can't trade because I'm only rank 2. That upsets me. A lot. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9219	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:34:00 - [19] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Thing is though that it would still take a very long time of just passive SP to get to rank 4. I seriously feel like SP should also be counted as well. SP per WP ratios have changed several times. I have played since Mordu's Trials, have only 30 million SP due to college, yet I can't trade because I'm only rank 2. That upsets me. A lot. But a character can be made then left to gather dust while it accrues passive SP. How does that indicate loyalty to the game? Active play or active pay should determine loyalty rank. @Ripley_Riley
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn 3089	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:38:00 - [20] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! It's not that AUR is a higher reward, it is just faster. 2 AUR = 1 loyalty 1 match = 2 loyalty 1 victory = +2 loyalty 500 WPs = 1 loyalty 1 daily login = 5 loyalty Logging in daily, actively participating in matches, and earning victories does earn you loyalty experience... but no where near as quickly as just paying $20. Well, I meant, compared to gameplay is either too high the "value" of aur or too low the value of actually playing the game...Triple value would be better imo. Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4300	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:44:00 - [21] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Harpyja wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Yes. I'm only rank 2. Almooooost rank 3. Also, why not make SP factor into loyalty rank as well? Say something like 500 points for every 1 mil SP? Because I have 30 million SP yet I'm only rank 2, and my alt is somewhere around 17 million SP and only rank 1. Using raw SP totals is problematic because of the nature of SP gains themselves. WPs already factor in, thus adding SP would compound the gains from WP. AUR already factors in, thus adding SP would compound the gains from AUR (if any boosters are used) SP can be gained passively by simply creating a character and letting it sit, thus adding SP would allow ranks to be earned while not even playing the game in any manner (this is feeds into the alt farming issue directly). Thing is though that it would still take a very long time of just passive SP to get to rank 4. I seriously feel like SP should also be counted as well. SP per WP ratios have changed several times. I have played since Mordu's Trials, have only 30 million SP due to college, yet I can't trade because I'm only rank 2. That upsets me. A lot. SP is a derived sat, not a primary one. As you've noted the earning curve has changed various times but that's a ratio of activity to result, i.e. the value of the primary actions and the time they require remains the same only the SP gained from them has changed. The actions that SP is derived from are already counted, in that sense SP is already in the system, but without the extra distortion of having those differing values constraining or ballooning some peoples totals. While I totally understand being upset by not having access to the upcoming trade feature adding SP as a metric really is problematic. Purchase of Omega Boosters via AUR then trivializes the system (as another example of problems it would create) you'd get xp for the AUR use and then xp for the match play and the wp gains and then more xp for the sp you derived from those actions. But with the SP counting directly the Omega (and to a lessor extent all SP boosters) become xp boosters as well. One of the last things the LR system needs is to be weighted so that AUR has a larger impact than it currently does. To sum up, don't add an SP factor, keep AUR contributions to the system where they are, and add more ways for players activity while deployed in match to earn xp so it is not as hard for someone actively playing the game to earn ranks. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4300	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:56:00 - [22] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! It's not that AUR is a higher reward, it is just faster. 2 AUR = 1 loyalty 1 match = 2 loyalty 1 victory = +2 loyalty 500 WPs = 1 loyalty 1 daily login = 5 loyalty Logging in daily, actively participating in matches, and earning victories does earn you loyalty experience... but no where near as quickly as just paying $20. Depends on how quickly you earned that $20, if you're working at wal-mart it's actually faster to just play the game Back on topic more I do think added vectors for tracking activity would be a good thing thus enabling really active players to earn loyalty ranks faster. It allows them to become a small side goal to work on rather than this thing that sort of just "is" the way they are now. At some level "buying" a rank will always be faster than earning one through play alone because it only takes you moments to click through a PSN transaction no matter how much you are spending. As such I think our primary focus should not be on "what is AUR vs other stuff in earnings" but more directly tackling the baseline problem by asking "what can we do to make earning Loyalty Ranks through activity alone more accessible and rewarding" On that note I will shamelessly solicit more feedback and input on my suggestions of an achievements system and/or adding some loyalty rank xp rewards to daily missions See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization 1615	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:59:00 - [23] - Quote The "loyalty" rank has less to do with game loyalty and more to do with CCP loyalty/faith, as far as I see it. I spent a lot of dough to help their development efforts (with the original vision in mind), only to get this, whatever this is now - certainly not what I bought into, but hey, I enjoyed myself...... some of the time. Rare Item Trades
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Pwnycorn 3089	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:01:00 - [24] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! It's not that AUR is a higher reward, it is just faster. 2 AUR = 1 loyalty 1 match = 2 loyalty 1 victory = +2 loyalty 500 WPs = 1 loyalty 1 daily login = 5 loyalty Logging in daily, actively participating in matches, and earning victories does earn you loyalty experience... but no where near as quickly as just paying $20. Depends on how quickly you earned that $20, if you're working at wal-mart it's actually faster to just play the game Back on topic more I do think added vectors for tracking activity would be a good thing thus enabling really active players to earn loyalty ranks faster. It allows them to become a small side goal to work on rather than this thing that sort of just "is" the way they are now. At some level "buying" a rank will always be faster than earning one through play alone because it only takes you moments to click through a PSN transaction no matter how much you are spending. As such I think our primary focus should not be on "what is AUR vs other stuff in earnings" but more directly tackling the baseline problem by asking "what can we do to make earning Loyalty Ranks through activity alone more accessible and rewarding" On that note I will shamelessly solicit more feedback and input on my suggestions of an achievements system and/or adding some loyalty rank xp rewards to daily missions Wouldn't it be great if every week people are encouraged to play? For example, the first 15 matches: 1 loyalty each. The other 30 matches 2 loyalty each. the next 60 matches 3 loyalty each etc. This way you actually reward both the hardcore players and the paying crowd. After all, it would be more or less the same concept as Skill progression: if you are an hardcore player, you don't need to buy boosters etc. If you are a casual and want to stay up-to-date you might want to buy some aur items, boosters etc Guinea Dust Bunnies are watching you, CCP Rouge.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9221	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:02:00 - [25] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: On that note I will shamelessly solicit more feedback and input on my suggestions of an achievements system and/or adding some loyalty rank xp rewards to daily missions I think one of the simplest ways to implement more LR XP would be to award XP for each daily mission completed, then some more for doing all 10. Completing any mission: 8 XP Completing all 10: +4 XP @Ripley_Riley
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization 1616	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:18:00 - [26] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I think our primary focus should not be on "what is AUR vs other stuff in earnings" but more directly tackling the baseline problem by asking "what can we do to make earning Loyalty Ranks through activity alone more accessible and rewarding" On that note I will shamelessly solicit more feedback and input on my suggestions of an achievements system and/or adding some loyalty rank xp rewards to daily missions +1 Loyalty points in daily rewards? Yes please! Issues bought up in numerous threads: Warbarge Component farming - I have no personal need to trade these. Exclude from trading? Newsletter farming - Stop giving tradeable rewards in newsletters (warbarge components instead, if above applies). Already farmed items? Let me draw your attention to the accrued passive PC ISK (pre-nerf). Mhmm. Daily Mission Hacked Decryptor Keys - Remove and make them less rare as EoM salvage. MLT gear - LOL. Boosters - No more new-player-creation boosters. Missions in general - Use your new tier system to give noobs the stuff they can benefit from (boosters, ISK, SP, components, strongboxes) and the vets more appropriate stuff for harder missions (components, keys, specialist gear). Do all the above and remove this LR4 rubbish. Please and thank you. Rare Item Trades
DozersMouse XIII Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1025	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:24:00 - [27] - Quote buy loyalty rank with isk Shotgun me once, shame on me Shotgun me twice, scans on you
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9226	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:27:00 - [28] - Quote DozersMouse XIII wrote: buy loyalty rank with isk Too easily exploited. Have one of the old guard PC folks send you 500mil ISK, then convert it into LR XP. @Ripley_Riley
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 738	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:27:00 - [29] - Quote I also think adding Loyalty Points for Daily Missions completion are the way to go. Perhaps only for the "daily goal", which is normally like 5 missions.
DozersMouse XIII Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1025	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:34:00 - [30] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: DozersMouse XIII wrote: buy loyalty rank with isk Too easily exploited. Have one of the old guard PC folks send you 500mil ISK, then convert it into LR XP. I know I like the idea beneath this post Shotgun me once, shame on me Shotgun me twice, scans on you

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4310	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:06:00 - [31] - Quote Current XP earnings 1 match = 2 loyalty 1 victory = +2 loyalty 500 WPs = 1 loyalty 1 daily login = 5 loyalty Add xp to the 'Complete X daily missions' mission. 3 missions = 5 5 missions = 7 8 missions = 10 10 mission = 15 ^May need better numbers but the goal is to provide a meaningful addition to the xp without making it trivial. Keep in mind this is assuming that the 'Trophies' system is also going to be put in place, and those I would see as having much larger rewards since they are lifetime rather than repeatable. Bronze = 50 Silver = 100 Gold = 400 Platinum =2000 ^ Again these are just numbers off the top of my head to get discussion rolling. And the specific values would have to be tuned to the actual requirements of each achievement. But the idea is that as you unlock each one, the next is progressively harder/longer to attain but it gives substantially more of an xp reward when completed. Capping a 'Platinum' (or whatever they end up being called) level achievement should ideally give a visible improvement in the Loyalty Rank level bar (if it doesn't outright level you, possibly more than once, depending on your current level at the time). Net effect of the two combined is intended to be a more steady rate of increase through normal daily activity with occasional 'bursts' of growth as achievements/trophies are earned, thus giving additional day to day and long term methods of increasing LR XP through activity alone. I'd love help developing and refining this idea further so we can bring something to ccp that will increase community enjoyment of the Loyalty Rank system. I think it's come some potential to be a fun mini game, we just need to put our heads together and give it some polish. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 531	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:11:00 - [32] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? oh wait... I just saw that it was you buddy! You know I did the loyalty rank testing a while ago. I got 6 Loyalty Rank points whether I had under 500 WP or over 1000WP per win when I tested it.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9235	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:00:00 - [33] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I'd love help developing and refining this idea further so we can bring something to ccp that will increase community enjoyment of the Loyalty Rank system. I think it's come some potential to be a fun mini game, we just need to put our heads together and give it some polish. Not sure where I can expand upon this idea, but I do have a question... what exactly would the trophies be awarded for? 'X kills wearing a scout dropsuit' 'Perform X headshots' 'Counter-hack an objective X times' 'Earn X WPs from Team Resupply' Like the above? @Ripley_Riley
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2024	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:01:00 - [34] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? If you are a player like me that doesn't have a credit card and is broke and hasn't spent a penny on this game- then yes. It can take 3-4 months to go from 3 to level 4. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Onesimus Tarsus is-a-Corporation 3290	Posted - 2015.04.15 19:02:00 - [35] - Quote How they ever fooled anyone into being interested in factional gear is beyond this carbon unit. As of April 9, 2015, we have about 330 days of DUST 514 left. Enjoy them!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4313	Posted - 2015.04.15 22:40:00 - [36] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I'd love help developing and refining this idea further so we can bring something to ccp that will increase community enjoyment of the Loyalty Rank system. I think it's come some potential to be a fun mini game, we just need to put our heads together and give it some polish. Not sure where I can expand upon this idea, but I do have a question... what exactly would the trophies be awarded for? 'X kills wearing a scout dropsuit' 'Perform X headshots' 'Counter-hack an objective X times' 'Earn X WPs from Team Resupply' Like the above? Yes along those lines. I haven't even remotely developed an exhaustive list or anything, just that general notion. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet General Tso's Alliance 222	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:07:00 - [37] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Depends on who you ask. Some players insist that it takes months of steady gameplay, others say a couple weeks. Since loyalty experience is accrued based on things like WPs earned, daily logins, and victories then that statement is probably modified by how a "gud" a player is. Good, ...... addicted. Perhaps both.
JJ'S Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 85	Posted - 2015.04.15 23:58:00 - [38] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Gentlenerds of GD, The new player trading system requires players to be loyalty rank 4 before they can trade items. CCP Rattati has stated there are some exploits that are prevented by doing this, and I believe him. The issue is then becomes how can players who are not yet sure if they want to purchase AUR or not able to earn loyalty rank 4 before they die from old age? I suggest that on weekends* all activities that generate loyalty experience be increased; doubled, maybe even tripled. Perhaps we could increase the value of loyalty experience for WPs from 500 WP / 1 loyalty -> 250 WP / 1 loyalty Do you have any other ideas? *: Friday DT - Monday DT How about the system be properly defined and actually polished? As the system stands right now... It is an invisible boogey man that magically gains points based on random stuff CCP claims... There is absolutely no development polish or professionalism put into the system what so ever... There is no gaining loyalty rank points at the end of the match showing you gained 5-10... There is no information even displaying that your gained points.. when they are added to the value.. If you went out and tried to track what gives you points and how much? You couldn't because the system is delayed and not explained in anyway.. The only thing they did is tell us that it exists... Gave us a under delivered UI display... If CCP never gave us that UI and forgot to mention that the code is in place to give us bonuses based on the system... Would the average player even notice any gains in Payout and EXP? I never noticed a difference from my alt rank 1 to my main at rank 13... Unless you're looking for it. The entire ranking system is a classic CCP Shanghai Feature... AWESOME in concept.. But lack luster and done half fast in execution.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1054	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:35:00 - [39] - Quote xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. I believe Kane Spero confirmed that getting loyalty rank 4, from 0, costs roughly $20 worth of AUR. I personally don't think that is asking for much, but to a new player that is a high investment for a game you just downloaded two days ago. Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! I have about 24k kills on this acct - without buying 'some' aurum (think i did about 10k) I would likely be Lvl 3
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 1054	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:38:00 - [40] - Quote JJ'S wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Gentlenerds of GD, The new player trading system requires players to be loyalty rank 4 before they can trade items. CCP Rattati has stated there are some exploits that are prevented by doing this, and I believe him. The issue is then becomes how can players who are not yet sure if they want to purchase AUR or not able to earn loyalty rank 4 before they die from old age? I suggest that on weekends* all activities that generate loyalty experience be increased; doubled, maybe even tripled. Perhaps we could increase the value of loyalty experience for WPs from 500 WP / 1 loyalty -> 250 WP / 1 loyalty Do you have any other ideas? *: Friday DT - Monday DT How about the system be properly defined and actually polished? As the system stands right now... It is an invisible boogey man that magically gains points based on random stuff CCP claims... There is absolutely no development polish or professionalism put into the system what so ever... There is no gaining loyalty rank points at the end of the match showing you gained 5-10... There is no information even displaying that your gained points.. when they are added to the value.. If you went out and tried to track what gives you points and how much? You couldn't because the system is delayed and not explained in anyway.. The only thing they did is tell us that it exists... Gave us a under delivered UI display... If CCP never gave us that UI and forgot to mention that the code is in place to give us bonuses based on the system... Would the average player even notice any gains in Payout and EXP? I never noticed a difference from my alt rank 1 to my main at rank 13... Unless you're looking for it. The entire ranking system is a classic CCP Shanghai Feature... AWESOME in concept.. But lack luster and done half fast in execution. Dude but... Wtf is 'half fast' think you mean 'halfassed'

Sicerly Yaw Quantum times 77	Posted - 2015.04.16 01:45:00 - [41] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Is rank 4 that hard to get to? Depends on who you ask. Some players insist that it takes months of steady gameplay, others say a couple weeks. Since loyalty experience is accrued based on things like WPs earned, daily logins, and victories then that statement is probably modified by how a "gud" a player is. lifetime sp 18mill lifetime wp 1mill kills 9.8k deaths 12.5k kd 0.79 rank 3 with 6992 points till rank 4 log in daily and have been playing for about a year now multiple matches a day haven't spent a penny on this game yet but I am very tempted to I still get put up against full proto teams and I tend to lose more matches then I win due to that so my win loss is pretty bad too 0.97
Russel Mendoza 7th air cav 47	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:10:00 - [42] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Well, if that's the case, it may be way too high reward for buying aur and way too low for actually playing the game. I used to play like 3-4 hours day! It's not that AUR is a higher reward, it is just faster. 2 AUR = 1 loyalty 1 match = 2 loyalty 1 victory = +2 loyalty 500 WPs = 1 loyalty 1 daily login = 5 loyalty Logging in daily, actively participating in matches, and earning victories does earn you loyalty experience... but no where near as quickly as just paying $20. is this the actual base for getting lp thanks for the info. I'm the biggest Dustard in the universe!!! Summoning technique "Gorgon no jutsu" Vehicle request accepted.
Guildo Crow Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 222	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:26:00 - [43] - Quote Does anyone know exactly how many LPs you need to get to rank 4?
The Eristic Dust 90210 893	Posted - 2015.04.16 05:12:00 - [44] - Quote Guildo Crow wrote: Does anyone know exactly how many LPs you need to get to rank 4? Measuring how many I need vs the size of the bar, I'd figure 8-10k just to get from 3 to 4. Rank should be combined across all chars on an account for starters, but the rank required to trade really needs to drop to 2 and/or have some other metric factored in. Something like a higher payout per WP unit (or lowered WP unit), maybe a multiplier when WP exceeds certain threshold so people will see greater gains the more they play. Actually playing the game should be rewarded far more handsomely than it is. It should not require literally thousands of victories to be able access a critical, game-changing (not to mention long-promised, highly anticipated) feature in a would-be MMOFPS, especially one centered around gear-centric competitive PVP and resource management with an already small playerbase/player retention issues. The scale is way off compared to the traditional Aur vs time gain in Dust's otherwise unusually good F2P model (well, except the Warbarge, but that's little more than a minigame of sorts right now - will be interesting to see how Corp barges are handled). Could just let Aur goods be sold back to the market for Aur, too. ;^) Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4403	Posted - 2015.04.16 08:10:00 - [45] - Quote The only idea i have is to not tie trading items and loyalty rank, there are several other values in game which can be used to prevent exploit. Loyalty rank is an aur meter, nothing more, nothing less, i'm fine with it, but it should not be related to important aspects of the game, especially to a feature that we have required since forever and only comes after 2 years or more. More than any other reason, this system do not prevent exploit. You only need to pay to use the exploit. Shifted in time, your tomorrow, my today.
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5358	Posted - 2015.04.16 08:34:00 - [46] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. I believe Kane Spero confirmed that getting loyalty rank 4, from 0, costs roughly $20 worth of AUR. I personally don't think that is asking for much, but to a new player that is a high investment for a game you just downloaded two days ago. If you downloaded the game two days ago, what kind of items do you really need to trade anyways? 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4321	Posted - 2015.04.16 16:45:00 - [47] - Quote shaman oga wrote: More than any other reason, this system do not prevent exploit. You only need to pay to use the exploit. Not entirely accurate, many of the items that can be farmed via exploit can also be attained in game for AUR or via other means. The fact however that they can be acquired via microtransaction means that if you spend the AUR to acquire them the exploit is just a more convoluted way to do what you can already do on the market. As to the larger scale exploits requiring multiple alts it is true this method alone would not fully address that but it is not slated as the only method just a part of the puzzle and let is be blunt there is no such thing as a system 100% proof against exploits (just look at the encryption decryption "wars" for an object lesson in this phenomena) so in the out of game context of managing a real world product such as software heavily mitigating the ability to exploit while also requiring either an investment of cash or a substantial activity level within game is on balance pretty effective. So, does this system prevent all exploits? No, nothing does that. But it is not the only system and it does make an impact on the ability to exploit via alts. EDIT: All of that being said I still want more vectors for active players to earn LR XP, as outlined in my prior posts in this thread. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4321	Posted - 2015.04.16 16:50:00 - [48] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: Now I'm rank 8 and 1/2, so yeah, it could be pretty hard (if not impossible) to get rank 4 in 2 weeks without any aur item. I believe Kane Spero confirmed that getting loyalty rank 4, from 0, costs roughly $20 worth of AUR. I personally don't think that is asking for much, but to a new player that is a high investment for a game you just downloaded two days ago. If you downloaded the game two days ago, what kind of items do you really need to trade anyways? Very little. Having say roughly two months be required from download to unlocking trade isn't a bad situation to be in, especially because AFAIK you can still receive items you just cannot send them. And frankly until we have a more complex trade system which provides better tools to avoid getting scammed it isn't such a bad thing to keep trade out of the hands of new bros who don't know how much glee some members of New Eden take in ripping people off. Nothing like having all the gear or money you start with being stolen during your first week or two of play to turn you off on continuing in a game. 0.02 ISK See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6277	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:23:00 - [49] - Quote I suggest that we just change the requirement to Loyalty Rank 4 or Faction Standing 4 (or a higher number depending on desired level of effort) so that people who don't want to buy AUR can grind up to access to trading in another manner. I like basing it on Faction Standing since you only get Faction Standing when you win FW matches. It is also easy to track your progress toward your goal and predict the effort involved. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 6277	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:27:00 - [50] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: you can still receive items you just cannot send them. That is a good point... Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4322	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:35:00 - [51] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I suggest that we just change the requirement to Loyalty Rank 4 or Faction Standing 4 (or a higher number depending on desired level of effort) so that people who don't want to buy AUR can grind up to access to trading in another manner. I like basing it on Faction Standing since you only get Faction Standing when you win FW matches. It is also easy to track your progress toward your goal and predict the effort involved. That's an interesting idea, I hadn't considered that one. May have some issues related to the possible loss of FW standing, but maybe there's a way to make it a simple unlock such as "if you have ever attained X rank during your character lifetime". Certainly bears more consideration. CPM 1 mail me your feedback and remember to have fun!
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1510	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:44:00 - [52] - Quote Anyone that pays $20 of real money to be able to trade items for make believe money is a fool. Why not make it character creation date based? Any toon over a year old should be able to trade. If they keep it Loyalty Rank based, then it should be dropped to 2 or 3. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9302	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:46:00 - [53] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Anyone that pays $20 of real money to be able to trade items for make believe money is a fool. They aren't spending $20 to trade items. They are spending $20 on Jara, some boosters, a BPO or whatever... The ability to trade is just a bonus. @Ripley_Riley
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1510	Posted - 2015.04.16 17:57:00 - [54] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: Anyone that pays $20 of real money to be able to trade items for make believe money is a fool. They aren't spending $20 to trade items. They are spending $20 on Jara, some boosters, a BPO or whatever... The ability to trade is just a bonus. I agree. A Merc Pack remains the best deal in Dust. To be forced to spend $20 just for the ability to trade is still ridiculous. It's a hidden cash grab. Or you can no life the game for 2 years, earn level 4, and then cry as the servers are turned off before you even make your first trade. IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOU DON'T NEED GLASSES


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