DUST Search - Ugh, Swarms

DUST Fiend wrote:

jordy mack wrote:

when u say "facing" do u mean u are trying to kill them in a 1v1?
if so i would agree that fg and ds are probly pretty good battle.
but i tend to think of swarms like a massdriver. an area denial weapon that gives u some warning but if u ignore the warning ur guna have a bad time.
fg actually pisses me off more because there is no warning just insta pop after taking damage from someone else.
but i no complain, ds's are pretty cheap now.

Well I don't fly anymore for the most part, not till dropships get the vehicle treatment too. If you wait literally 1 second too long to run away (which generally must start BEFORE the first volley hits), you die. And nevermind that as you run away, you get chased for 400 meters by auto lock death, and god forbid anyone else on the map shoots you during this time. I just got tired of always having to run away from everything ever. If they were putting more effort into it I wouldn't mind as much, but area denial weapons aren't supposed to be as powerful as precision anti armor. But, they are.

It's just an unsatisfying weapon to face, and I can't imagine it's very satisfying to use either.

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DUST Fiend 16349	Posted - 2015.04.12 18:04:00 - [31] - Quote danthrax martin wrote: Somebody's on crack. I mainly swarm because forge gun was too easy... Lmfao I'm gonna assume this is troll bait, because I refuse to believe anyone could actually be so dense Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Knightshade Belladonna Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 1087	Posted - 2015.04.12 18:17:00 - [32] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Should have to reload after every volley and have lock on time doubled. Currently can lock onto target from cover, through textures, out dps most AV weapons. If you had to maintain or reaquire lock on target in between volleys it would add an element of skill for the amount of damage it dishes out. You do have to reaquire lock after each volley, a couple seconds wait time after each. And I wish I could lock things through barriers, that sounds like only certain situations and bad terrain more than a problem with the weapon.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9096	Posted - 2015.04.12 18:30:00 - [33] - Quote "It killed me therefore it is broken and requires no skill." @Ripley_Riley
DUST Fiend 16350	Posted - 2015.04.12 18:32:00 - [34] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: "It requires no aim or effort in order to land hits and gain WP, and thus requires no skill" So glad you agree Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18188	Posted - 2015.04.12 20:22:00 - [35] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Should have to reload after every volley and have lock on time doubled. Currently can lock onto target from cover, through textures, out dps most AV weapons. If you had to maintain or reaquire lock on target in between volleys it would add an element of skill for the amount of damage it dishes out. You do have to reaquire lock after each volley, a couple seconds wait time after each. And I wish I could lock things through barriers, that sounds like only certain situations and bad terrain more than a problem with the weapon. However, and this is not a complaint about the weapon, it can require it lock very quickly after firing. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
ROTFL Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2015.04.12 20:32:00 - [36] - Quote LMAO @ pilots crying about swarms........... GG Serious, you MUST suck. I pilot and have NO problems ducking behind a building. Only a scrub will sit there and get popped like a cherry. TEAM WORK is the key. Even if you just get on mic and ask someone to wack the guy....... Swarms are in a good place! Adapt or die.... Knowing is half the battle! The other half involves guns! GI JOE!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 18188	Posted - 2015.04.12 20:36:00 - [37] - Quote ROTFL wrote: LMAO @ pilots crying about swarms........... GG Serious, you MUST suck. I pilot and have NO problems ducking behind a building. Only a scrub will sit there and get popped like a cherry. TEAM WORK is the key. Even if you just get on mic and ask someone to wack the guy....... Swarms are in a good place! Adapt or die.... I think you are mistaking statements about the proliferation of high tier AV as players develop their characters, rendering of swarms, and of course the occasional phase through terrain glitch as complaining. These are more or less common place concerns. GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥ -The Nameless City
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION 781	Posted - 2015.04.12 20:36:00 - [38] - Quote I see pilots that dodge swarms with good flying skills.
DUST Fiend 16359	Posted - 2015.04.13 01:50:00 - [39] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: I see pilots that dodge swarms with good flying skills. First of all, define "Dodge" Secondly, that's something I would have to see to believe, but please elaborate anyways. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
DUST Fiend 16359	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:27:00 - [40] - Quote ROTFL wrote: LMAO @ pilots crying about swarms........... GG Serious, you MUST suck. I pilot and have NO problems ducking behind a building. Only a scrub will sit there and get popped like a cherry. TEAM WORK is the key. Even if you just get on mic and ask someone to wack the guy....... Swarms are in a good place! Adapt or die.... Ahh, someone who didn't actually read my post, welcome :) It was a musing about my discontent with the sheer amount of space that swarm launchers deny. A full clip entering the air is all but GUARANTEED unless the swarmer is entirely incompetent or extremely unlucky. Swarm tracking still definitely finds its way around buildings, particularly if you're closer to the launch point. So the answer to swarms, at least for Incubus, is to run. Unless you run a double hardener fit then you can stay and tank the first couple hits, but it's situational thanks to the long window of opportunity. Basically I would envision swarms like this. Not that I have any confidence that the mechanics can be adjusted at this point, but anyways: Higher zoom at least, possibly a short range scope. There's a dotted circle on in the center of the screen, something like the one the HMG has, but more noticeable. When aimed at a hostile installation or vehicle, it will turn red and you can immediately fire, or acquire your lock first and then fire. If fired without a lock, they will scream forward in a straight line until you acquire your lock. Once locked, you can only maintain your lock by keeping that circle red; if at any point you fail to maintain this lock, the missiles explode. This leads into the next change: 50% additional acceleration, 225 meter lock on range, 225 meter flight duration. Much lower turning capability, so they mostly move in a slowly altering curve, but at really high speeds. This will allow for pilot skill to come into play by being able to outmaneuver the missiles if they react quickly enough. Damage needs a significant spike to maintain similar dps, math junkies, please feel free to chime in here. Leading into: 2 round in the magazine, slightly longer reload than plasma cannon, total clip should be between 6 to 8 I think. This gives the swarmer excellent surprise advantage, but adds in more vulnerability due to having to stay still to maintain a lock. A swarmer could dispense of installations rather quickly up close with the help of a nanohive or two. Nevermind if they come across a tanker not paying any attention and loafing around. It becomes an engaging activity between two players, instead of something automatic and frustrating. I'm the worst player in the history of ever, which upsets me deeply when I wander into the top 3 pretty consistently when playing solo. I don't care, I haven't cared in a very long time now. All I care about is that it's a boring engagement right now from both sides, and I wish imagination was possible with this game, but CCP has put a strangle hold on the budget, and it's suffocating. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe

MythTanker Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 302	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:31:00 - [41] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why must an auto aim weapon travel so far? @_@ Give it some kind of buff I don't even care (even though they reaaaalllyy don't need one), just please for the love of God don't make them travel all over the map after you lol. Forge Gunners are like AV Unicorns ever since swarms got buffed lol How I imagine Swarm Launchers My FG works just fine. Just ask 0.H. Drink Quafe F@gg0t -CPM Awox FA's offical FG bitch
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5787	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:32:00 - [42] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: So you're ok with the forge which can engage and hit anything within 300m, but you're not ok with a weapon that can only engage at 175m but can hit at 400? Would you prefer Swarm Lock be 300m and max range be 300m? Don't get me wrong, I'd love for Swarms to have a larger skill element associated with them, but I'm a little confused about why you're fine with Forges but no Swarms on a range-basis. If you are gonna do that comparison, your words are "forge gun must have Auto Aim". Calm down, I only made that comparison (and I even state later in the post) on a range-basis since the range of swarms vs the forge gun. Additionally I go on to say "I'd love for swarms to have a large skill element". which would be to make them less "fire and forget". God people are so ***** quick to jump to toxicity over this . "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend 16360	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:35:00 - [43] - Quote MythTanker wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Why must an auto aim weapon travel so far? @_@ Give it some kind of buff I don't even care (even though they reaaaalllyy don't need one), just please for the love of God don't make them travel all over the map after you lol. Forge Gunners are like AV Unicorns ever since swarms got buffed lol How I imagine Swarm Launchers My FG works just fine. Just ask 0.H. FG's are in a wonderful place, and they have been for some time. I just mean that there are a lot of swarmers and not so many forge gunners lol. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5787	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:36:00 - [44] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: MythTanker wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Why must an auto aim weapon travel so far? @_@ Give it some kind of buff I don't even care (even though they reaaaalllyy don't need one), just please for the love of God don't make them travel all over the map after you lol. Forge Gunners are like AV Unicorns ever since swarms got buffed lol How I imagine Swarm Launchers My FG works just fine. Just ask 0.H. FG's are in a wonderful place, and they have been for some time. I just mean that there are a lot of swarmers and not so many forge gunners lol. I agree. I would love to see a rational method design built around the forge gun, to use it as a baseline for all the other AV weapons. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend 16360	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:38:00 - [45] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: MythTanker wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Why must an auto aim weapon travel so far? @_@ Give it some kind of buff I don't even care (even though they reaaaalllyy don't need one), just please for the love of God don't make them travel all over the map after you lol. Forge Gunners are like AV Unicorns ever since swarms got buffed lol How I imagine Swarm Launchers My FG works just fine. Just ask 0.H. FG's are in a wonderful place, and they have been for some time. I just mean that there are a lot of swarmers and not so many forge gunners lol. I agree. I would love to see a rational method design built around the forge gun, to use it as a baseline for all the other AV weapons. READ MY OVERLY LENGTHY RE-IMAGINING OF SWARM LAUNCHERS AND UNLEASH THINE WRATH!!!!!! Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5787	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:41:00 - [46] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: READ MY OVERLY LENGTHY RE-IMAGINING OF SWARM LAUNCHERS AND UNLEASH THINE WRATH!!!!!! You know if I thought you and Breakin' Stuff could not kill each other, you two could probably come up with something pretty solid. Sadly I don't know enough about flying dropships to comment much in that regard. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend 16361	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:42:00 - [47] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: READ MY OVERLY LENGTHY RE-IMAGINING OF SWARM LAUNCHERS AND UNLEASH THINE WRATH!!!!!! You know if I thought you and Breakin' Stuff could not kill each other, you two could probably come up with something pretty solid. Sadly I don't know enough about flying dropships to comment much in that regard. I don't handle the numbers. That's why we have smart people. And computers. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5787	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:43:00 - [48] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: READ MY OVERLY LENGTHY RE-IMAGINING OF SWARM LAUNCHERS AND UNLEASH THINE WRATH!!!!!! You know if I thought you and Breakin' Stuff could not kill each other, you two could probably come up with something pretty solid. Sadly I don't know enough about flying dropships to comment much in that regard. I don't handle the numbers. That's why we have smart people. And computers. Which is why you could come up with something solid, but again I think you would try to kill each other, and not in the good way. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net
DUST Fiend 16364	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:50:00 - [49] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: READ MY OVERLY LENGTHY RE-IMAGINING OF SWARM LAUNCHERS AND UNLEASH THINE WRATH!!!!!! You know if I thought you and Breakin' Stuff could not kill each other, you two could probably come up with something pretty solid. Sadly I don't know enough about flying dropships to comment much in that regard. I don't handle the numbers. That's why we have smart people. And computers. Which is why you could come up with something solid, but again I think you would try to kill each other, and not in the good way. I refuse to engage in actual rigorous balance and design discussions without the means for those discussions to potentially bear fruit. My little bitter shriveled berry can't handle it anymore. Such vet. Very bitter. I do like to muse from time to time though, when I'm not busy rustling jimmies. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5787	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:56:00 - [50] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I refuse to engage in actual rigorous balance and design discussions without the means for those discussions to potentially bear fruit. My little bitter shriveled berry can't handle it anymore. Such vet. Very bitter. I do like to muse from time to time though, when I'm not busy rustling jimmies. Just continue to muse in my general direction and I'll try to De-bitter it and pull out useful information thingies. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast & Blog www.biomassed.net

DUST Fiend 16364	Posted - 2015.04.13 02:59:00 - [51] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I refuse to engage in actual rigorous balance and design discussions without the means for those discussions to potentially bear fruit. My little bitter shriveled berry can't handle it anymore. Such vet. Very bitter. I do like to muse from time to time though, when I'm not busy rustling jimmies. Just continue to muse in my general direction and I'll try to De-bitter it and pull out useful information thingies. DON'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE POKEY!!!!! (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+ Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION 782	Posted - 2015.04.13 03:09:00 - [52] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: SILENTSAM 69 wrote: I see pilots that dodge swarms with good flying skills. First of all, define "Dodge" Secondly, that's something I would have to see to believe, but please elaborate anyways. I mean that I watched my swarms go toward him, and when they were almost there he had a hard turn and they missed him. He may have used an Afterburner to turn that quickly, I am not sure. I have seen some pilots do some crazy stuff. I once watched my buddy do a backflip in a Drop Ship in order to crash it into one that was chasing him. Sure they both died, but it looked amazing.
DUST Fiend 16365	Posted - 2015.04.13 03:11:00 - [53] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: SILENTSAM 69 wrote: I see pilots that dodge swarms with good flying skills. First of all, define "Dodge" Secondly, that's something I would have to see to believe, but please elaborate anyways. I mean that I watched my swarms go toward him, and when they were almost there he had a hard turn and they missed him. He may have used an Afterburner to turn that quickly, I am not sure. I have seen some pilots do some crazy stuff. I once watched my buddy do a backflip in a Drop Ship in order to crash it into one that was chasing him. Sure they both died, but it looked amazing. I'm imagining that was a Python you were shooting? I've heard it's technically possible from time to time, but I've never witnessed it. First hand or otherwise. At worst I've watched the seemingly endless swarming of missiles in a circle around your ship till they finally impact, but that hasn't happened in quite a while. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION 783	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:14:00 - [54] - Quote The other maneuver I see is putting some type of tower between you and the missiles. I would guess you see these more when firing at people then when being fired upon.
Vesta Opalus Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 610	Posted - 2015.04.15 20:30:00 - [55] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: jordy mack wrote: when u say "facing" do u mean u are trying to kill them in a 1v1? if so i would agree that fg and ds are probly pretty good battle. but i tend to think of swarms like a massdriver. an area denial weapon that gives u some warning but if u ignore the warning ur guna have a bad time. fg actually pisses me off more because there is no warning just insta pop after taking damage from someone else. but i no complain, ds's are pretty cheap now. Well I don't fly anymore for the most part, not till dropships get the vehicle treatment too. If you wait literally 1 second too long to run away (which generally must start BEFORE the first volley hits), you die. And nevermind that as you run away, you get chased for 400 meters by auto lock death, and god forbid anyone else on the map shoots you during this time. I just got tired of always having to run away from everything ever. If they were putting more effort into it I wouldn't mind as much, but area denial weapons aren't supposed to be as powerful as precision anti armor. But, they are. It's just an unsatisfying weapon to face, and I can't imagine it's very satisfying to use either. You're right, its not satisfying at all, its aweful. AV v Vehicle balance is in a horrible place right now, so is tank v dropship, tank v tank, and so on Its too hard for a single AV player to kill a dropship Its too easy to kill dropships with multiple AV players Madrugers are invincible due to hardener/rep combo being OP as fudge and make both AV and Gunnlogis and anti-vehicle dropships completely worthless Large Railgun Turrets STILL absolutely murder dropships even faster than AV after consecutive patches where this has been the case LAVs are so fragile right now its rediculous, and unlike tanks you cant fit enough modules to make them reasonably tanky


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