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re balancing the speed of the roles with ehp

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Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 362	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:04:00 - [1] - Quote So atm we have .. Heavy. Number 1 in ehp number 5 in speed Commando number 3 in ehp number 4 in speed ...hp buff needed Assault number 2 in ehp number 2 in speed Logi number 4 in ehp number 3 in speed speed buff needed Scout number 5 in ehp number 1 in speed Scout and heavy are great but logi and commando ..fail Make commando have more ehp than assault as fits their speed Give logis more speed as suits Their ehp logis become second fastest to match having the second worst tank ability ..commando become second in ehp matching being the second slowest suit in dust Thoughts no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
robin williams' ghost whisky tango foxtrot sir 1080	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:12:00 - [2] - Quote Buff commandos ehp, buff logi speed, leave everything else alone, yeah I could get on board with that. And give commandos a grenade slot already. Robin Williams endorses this corp
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 362	Posted - 2015.03.23 14:15:00 - [3] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: Buff commandos ehp, buff logi speed, leave everything else alone, yeah I could get on board with that. And give commandos a grenade slot already. I wish commando had a grenade slot I try and keep my posts simple Small requests easy changes no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8763	Posted - 2015.03.23 15:27:00 - [4] - Quote I agree that HP needs to have a speed correlate. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 362	Posted - 2015.03.23 16:05:00 - [5] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I agree that HP needs to have a speed correlate. How would you propose we fix the lack of correlation no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Flint Beastgood III Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1546	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:37:00 - [6] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: Buff commandos ehp, buff logi speed, leave everything else alone, yeah I could get on board with that. And give commandos a grenade slot already. :) win win win Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8239	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:42:00 - [7] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Thoughts? Idea 1) Implement a mass:movement model which scales speed with HP. Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. Idea 1 - Illustrated: CCP Rattati wrote: I want each frame to have mass, each module to have mass, and speed is dynamically related to mass. base speed = 6 at zero mass Scout = 100 (could substitute mass for hp) base speed 100/X = 5.2 plate = 10 1 plate = 10% speed reduction 5 plates = 50% reduction new speed = base speed * penalty Sentinel = 500 base speed = 500/X = 4.5 plate = 10 1 plate = 2% speed reduction 5 plates = 10% reduction new speed = base speed * penalty penalty wouldn't have to be linear I already have some calculations and ideas without a true encumbrance model, I can share that Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 367	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:32:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Thoughts? Idea 1) Implement a mass:movement model which scales speed with HP. Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. Idea 1 - Illustrated: CCP Rattati wrote: I want each frame to have mass, each module to have mass, and speed is dynamically related to mass. base speed = 6 at zero mass Scout = 100 (could substitute mass for hp) base speed 100/X = 5.2 plate = 10 1 plate = 10% speed reduction 5 plates = 50% reduction new speed = base speed * penalty Sentinel = 500 base speed = 500/X = 4.5 plate = 10 1 plate = 2% speed reduction 5 plates = 10% reduction new speed = base speed * penalty penalty wouldn't have to be linear I already have some calculations and ideas without a true encumbrance model, I can share that swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3263	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:03:00 - [9] - Quote robin williams' ghost wrote: Buff commandos ehp, buff logi speed, leave everything else alone, yeah I could get on board with that. And give commandos a grenade slot already. I could also get on board with that, roughly speaking at least. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8241	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:35:00 - [10] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png You asked for a solution to rectify Mobility / HP paradigm; I've provided you with a solution. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8770	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:41:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8241	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:44:00 - [12] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on. Tough to say. But if the past is any indication, throwing more HP at the problem doesn't serve to shake up the King HP meta. Assaults are too mobile for the HP they're packing. The obvious solution is to make them less mobile. The popular solution will be more HP creep. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8770	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:47:00 - [13] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on. Tough to say. But if the past is any indication, throwing more HP at the problem doesn't serve to shake up the King HP meta. Assaults are too mobile for the HP they're packing. The obvious solution is to make them less mobile. The popular solution will be more HP creep. But if we have a baseline to use like some HP/Speed ratio, we could perhaps have more data to demonstrate how much HP really does affect killing potential, or over performing suits, and we could maybe increase costs of HP mods/ Lower costs of KinCats proportionally. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 370	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:54:00 - [14] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. Things have changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png I consider it a direct buff if it directly results in the scout role becoming the best slayer. With the current new backpedal speeds nerfing assault speed to logi speed would cause assaults ehp to be irrelevant the would be slugs and scout would be better at slaying in every way You can nitpick my words all you want lowering assaults speed is not a good idea. There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 370	Posted - 2015.03.23 20:58:00 - [15] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on. Tough to say. But if the past is any indication, throwing more HP at the problem doesn't serve to shake up the King HP meta. Assaults are too mobile for the HP they're packing. The obvious solution is to make them less mobile. The popular solution will be more HP creep. Giving the logi more speed won't make them slayers they are very tight on fitting and even if said slayer ran cheapo gear they still wouldn't compare to assaults higher ehp I don't think the min amar and gal logi would threaten my min gal and amar assaults slaying ability ..maybe this is not the case for cal i dunno I don't have them cal assault is kinda weak vs the other 3 so maybe it's logi could surpass it no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 370	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:01:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos. swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers [/quote] A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png[/quote] Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on.[/quote] Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 260	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:21:00 - [17] - Quote I agree with you, commando and logi need a buff. Just, commandos have more eHP than assaults, don't they? Commando (gallente for example) : 312 + 500 = 812eHP Assault (gallente) : 194 + 344 = 638eHP Finqlly assault have more hp but actually at the beginning they don't. And don't forget, commandos have 2 light weapons, and logi have many equipment :) But yes, both need a speed buff, but for example a logi must not be faster than assaults, same for commandos. I'm sorry for my bad English writting and comprehension.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 8776	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:30:00 - [18] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8241	Posted - 2015.03.23 21:37:00 - [19] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 374	Posted - 2015.03.24 16:58:00 - [20] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind. Then how do you explain the popularity of kinkat and reactive or ferroscales combos on armor style assaults no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 374	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:00:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well A mix of high-hp and high-speed makes for optimal survivability. See MinAssault. This and as for assaults vs scouts I disagree I think the new backpedal speeds brought shotty scout back to even ground I've noticed my scout performing much better since echo no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8256	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:00:00 - [22] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind. Then how do you explain the popularity of kinkat and reactive or ferroscales combos on armor style assaults Because Wiggle Wiggle. Increased strafe penalty was added to vanilla plates; ferros and reactives were not affected. Following this change, many non-heavies migrated away from vanilla plates. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 374	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:01:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind. Then how do you explain the popularity of kinkat and reactive or ferroscales combos on armor style assaults Because Wiggle Wiggle. Increased strafe penalty was added to vanilla plates; ferros and reactives were not affected. Following this change, many non-heavies migrated away from vanilla plates. Because speed greatly effects survivability ..as for brick tanking heavies most real heavies moved to non vanilla plates as well ..in fact I don't know a single decent heavy who completely tanks nowadays no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3231	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:03:00 - [24] - Quote Personally I think logis need more ehp rather than speed. They're a support role with (supposedly) lower offenses, so it makes sense that they'd be more defensive. The order would follow: Heavies - Commando - Logi - Assault - Scout Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8256	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:04:00 - [25] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well A mix of high-hp and high-speed makes for optimal survivability. See MinAssault. This and as for assaults vs scouts I disagree I think the new backpedal speeds brought shotty scout back to even ground I'm running 1 precision and a couple Myofibs on my Assault fits. If a shotgunner gets within optimal range, I'll pick him up on TacNet. If I fail to notice him and he blaps me, I can tank his first strike and hop away -- well out of his range -- before his places his second. If the shotgunner is a scout, I'll kill him somewhere between 50% and 100% of the time. If the shotgunner is a MN Assault, he has better odds of surviving the flank-attack-turned-face-to-face engagement. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6799	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:05:00 - [26] - Quote I have a question. Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race? For example, should an Amarr Scout be faster than a Minmatar Assault, or should it only beat the Amarr Assault in terms of base speed. Another question is: should there be a set ratio for eHP:speed?
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 374	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:07:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well A mix of high-hp and high-speed makes for optimal survivability. See MinAssault. This and as for assaults vs scouts I disagree I think the new backpedal speeds brought shotty scout back to even ground I'm running 1 precision and a couple Myofibss on my Assault fits. If a shotgunner gets within optimal range, I'll pick him up on TacNet. If I fail to notice him and he blaps me, I can still tank his first strike and hop away before his second. If the shotgunner is a scout, I'll kill him in 3 out of 4 cases. If the shotgunner is a MN Assault, he has better odds of surviving my retaliation and winning. You describing 1 fit vs Scout 1 assault fit yes jump mods may help you get away from SOME SCOUTS but I've yet to have the happen to me Pats my pinpoint accurate smg ..at least as far as the amar scout goes scouts are fine no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 374	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:08:00 - [28] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I have a question. Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race? For example, should an Amarr Scout be faster than a Minmatar Assault, or should it only beat the Amarr Assault in terms of base speed. Another question is: should there be a set ratio for eHP:speed? I think there should be a set ratio for ehp and speed correlation but that it should also vary depending on frame type .. yes an amar scout should be faster than a min assault but it should also be the slowest scout It's a light frame at base all light frames should be faster than medium But then the amar race us also supposed to be the slowest race ..and min the fastest ....and amar scout would be op if it got a speed buff no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8256	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:12:00 - [29] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: (1) You describing 1 fit vs Scout 1 assault fit yes jump mods may help you get away from SOME SCOUTS but I've yet to have the happen to me Pats my pinpoint accurate smg .. (2) at least as far as the amar scout goes scouts are fine 1. Myofibs are not uncommon. I'm explaining to you why SG Scout kill/spawn efficiency will decline this build. 2. It would not surprise me if AM Scout usage rates were among the lowest of any suit in the game. But we're speculating. Efficiency and utilization rates will be what they'll be. If they come in low, you'll know I was right. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8256	Posted - 2015.03.24 17:13:00 - [30] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race? MN Assault is presently faster than AM Scout. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley



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