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Posted - 2015.03.23 17:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Thoughts?
Idea 1) Implement a mass:movement model which scales speed with HP.
Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
Idea 1 - Illustrated:
CCP Rattati wrote: I want each frame to have mass, each module to have mass, and speed is dynamically related to mass.
base speed = 6 at zero mass
Scout = 100 (could substitute mass for hp)
base speed 100/X = 5.2
plate = 10
1 plate = 10% speed reduction
5 plates = 50% reduction
new speed = base speed * penalty
Sentinel = 500
base speed = 500/X = 4.5
plate = 10
1 plate = 2% speed reduction
5 plates = 10% reduction
new speed = base speed * penalty
penalty wouldn't have to be linear
I already have some calculations and ideas without a true encumbrance model, I can share that
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers
A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few.
http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png
You asked for a solution to rectify Mobility / HP paradigm; I've provided you with a solution.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8241
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Posted - 2015.03.23 19:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
Idea 2) Swap Logi and Assault speed profiles. Add a slot to Commandos.
swapping logi and assaults speed is a bad idea it's a direct buff to scouts lol scouts would once again be king slayers A "direct buff" would involve directly buffing Scouts. If buff at all, this would be indirect. But much has changed since Scouts were king slayers. Cloakblind, Decloak Delay, Strafe Penalties, Falloff ... to name a few. http://i.imgur.com/soGuQpJ.png Not to mention the fitting capabilities of Logis. If anything, you would see a Logi Slayer come back rather than Scout Slayer. Assaults still have the ability and fitting capacity/space for KinCats, Dampeners etc. Personally, I like the 1) option the best. This would give some sort of metric to base future changes on.
Tough to say. But if the past is any indication, throwing more HP at the problem doesn't serve to shake up the King HP meta. Assaults are too mobile for the HP they're packing. The obvious solution is to make them less mobile. The popular solution will be more HP creep.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Posted - 2015.03.23 21:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect
Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8256
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Posted - 2015.03.24 17:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
If that were true, why aren't Minjas the games best slayer, and Heavies the worst? If Speed meant more than HP, Speed tanking would be super popular, but its not. Speed does not mean more, because a Speed tanked Minja at 200 or 300 HP is not going to survive spray and pray with even 10% accuracy, or in the case of an HMG 2% accuracy from a distance. Survivibality is key, which is why HP mods are THE MOST used modules in the game. HP is far and away the most telling indicator of killing capacity, with other facets at a distance behind. Then how do you explain the popularity of kinkat and reactive or ferroscales combos on armor style assaults
Because Wiggle Wiggle.
Increased strafe penalty was added to vanilla plates; ferros and reactives were not affected.
Following this change, many non-heavies migrated away from vanilla plates.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8256
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Posted - 2015.03.24 17:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
There is a precious balance between assaults scouts and heavies and right now it's close to perfect
Can't speak for Assault vs Heavy, but for Assault vs Scout I suspect the scales have flipped too far in favor Assaults. I could be wrong in this, but what I expect we'll see over the course of Echo is a decline in Scout utilization rates and slumping kill/spawn efficiency. Time will tell. Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Up to a point I think speed is more important than ehp in dust when it comes to survivability and ide prefer option 1 as well
A mix of high-hp and high-speed makes for optimal survivability. See MinAssault. This and as for assaults vs scouts I disagree I think the new backpedal speeds brought shotty scout back to even ground
I'm running 1 precision and a couple Myofibs on my Assault fits. If a shotgunner gets within optimal range, I'll pick him up on TacNet. If I fail to notice him and he blaps me, I can tank his first strike and hop away -- well out of his range -- before his places his second. If the shotgunner is a scout, I'll kill him somewhere between 50% and 100% of the time. If the shotgunner is a MN Assault, he has better odds of surviving the flank-attack-turned-face-to-face engagement.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Posted - 2015.03.24 17:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
(1) You describing 1 fit vs Scout 1 assault fit yes jump mods may help you get away from SOME SCOUTS but I've yet to have the happen to me Pats my pinpoint accurate smg .. (2) at least as far as the amar scout goes scouts are fine
1. Myofibs are not uncommon. I'm explaining to you why SG Scout kill/spawn efficiency will decline this build.
2. It would not surprise me if AM Scout usage rates were among the lowest of any suit in the game.
But we're speculating. Efficiency and utilization rates will be what they'll be. If they come in low, you'll know I was right. 
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8256
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Posted - 2015.03.24 17:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:
Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race?
MN Assault is presently faster than AM Scout.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8258
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Posted - 2015.03.24 17:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
... but I dont think just putting all the suits on a hp vs. speed curve you graphed out and calling it a day is a good way to do things.
Why not ?
I'm with Morte on this one. Why not, Vesta?
Shouldn't Speed and HP be inversely related?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8261
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Posted - 2015.03.24 18:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Joel II X wrote:
Should all scouts be faster than all Assaults, or should it stay the same based on race?
MN Assault is presently faster than AM Scout. And it shouldn't be
Agreed. I'm wondering if MN Assault movement speed was entered in error.
Speed Comparisons
Base movement of 5.20 fits the pattern better than the current 5.30.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8264
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Posted - 2015.03.24 19:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:
Amar scout and min assault should swap movement and sprint speeds
Added Sheet: "Maths for Morte"
(appears to further "denormalize" the progression)
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8265
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Posted - 2015.03.24 21:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Definitely in favor of commando EHP buff. CCP kept buffing the assault and they didn't realize that they ended up giving it higher EHP potential than commandos. Honestly I would prefer a slot increase opposed to be EHP increase so the players have more options.
As for Amarr scout, I would like to point out that is not like the Amarr Empire doesn't know how to make stuff fast, they just prefer not too in direct combat. But when they need to be fast they can be, the Imperial Navy Slicer is the second fastest ship if I recall. Still I'd settle with at least being faster than the Minmatar assault. But how many slots Amarr and Gallente +1 low all tiers, Minmatar and Caldari +1 high all tiers. Off the top of my head. One slot seems reasonable. Not sure if that would make Caldari commando inadvertently too much of a sniping monster. Or make minmando broken for swarms
Agreed. Min and Calmandos would be risky.
Might it be safer to assign +1 low (all tiers, all races)?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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8268
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Posted - 2015.03.24 22:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
@ Morte, Aero
This is a 'bit off-topic, but if you don't mind my asking ... what do you two think of trading out the AM Scout precision bonus for a bonus to Biotic Efficacy?
As of December, there hasn't been much practical benefit to the current racial bonus. What the AM Scout scans at short and mid range is as readily scanned by an (arguably superior) Gal or Cal Scout or more easily scanned by a GalLogi. Passive Recon was intentionally crippled, so I don't see Recon Scouts ever making a comeback. Meanwhile, AM Scout waits without a meaningful role. What if that role were to become Biotic Scout?
Specifically ...
Current AM Scout Racial Bonus:
+5% base stamina, +5% base scan precision
Proposed AM Scout Racial Bonus:
+10% base stamina, +5% biotic module efficacy
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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