DUST Search - Vehicle Handling

Pokey Dravon wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow.

I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful.

Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer.

I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion.

But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot.

I am happy to entertain tweaks like

increase this speed, decrease this speed etc.

The primary issue with handling on a controller is that in order to turn, you have to rotate the control stick which in turn pulls back on the forward throttle, M&K doesn't suffer from this because acceleration and turning are separate control points. this is also why I use the control scheme for LAVs where throttle is on the shoulder buttons and rotation is entirely on the control sticks, it gives MUCH more control over the handling. Sadly that control scheme doesn't exist for HAVs.

Sadly the means to fix this issue is likely outside the scope of what can actually happen.

As for ramping up the handling...seems reasonable. One thing I would note is that I actually like that some HAVs handle better than other. For example it would make sense to me that a Minmatar HAV would turn faster with a tighter radius than an Amarrian tank. Basically saying, if you change them, don't make them all the same.

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Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.11 22:46:00 - [1] - Quote Pretty much every vehicle has issues with some form of handling. It's annoying to pilot when you can't do something the way you want it to because of the ** poor handling, or dying because of something as stupid as flipping or hitting something that you should have been able to avoid, and that needs changing. HAV's: HAV's, particularrly Gal HAV's needs to be able to turn better, more so on controllers. Sometimes, it doesn't turn the way you expect it to turn (sometimes the complete opposite way), or the turn itself is unrealistically wide, so you end up hitting something, or has to stop mid turn, win which both will kill you a lot of the time. Also, there's for some reason hills that looks like it should be climbable, but isn't due to the fact that there's simply not enough power, even if you're going already with nitro, and that needs changing. Additionally, they accelerate and decelerate as if they have little mass. It went from never even getting to full speed to this, it needs to be somewhere in the middle. Also, the collision physics are odd. HAV ramming shouldn't be a thing tbh, but driving over them like ramps shouldn't be either. sidenote: the camera tracking speed needs to be higher than the turret tracking speed in 3rd person view simply to see where you're going; every tank game has this for a reason. LAV's: LAV's handle like sports cars in rough terrain. illogical, and not even close to practical. If a HAV sees a LAV, it's most likely going to die (especially in Echo), even if it tries to run. On top of that, they bounce around like they have no weight, and they definitely don't grip the ground at all (which causes the flips, which causes the deaths). Even the tinest piece of rock can send these things flying. They should perform like they are built to be in rough terrain, being able to drive over small objects, and landing soon after jumps (not flying through the air). They should be pretty hard to flip too, being heavy and all. Kinda like this, or this, or this (I can go all day, you know what I mean). Also, The fact that touching another vehicle, particularly a HAV, and blowing up is silly. Simply headbutting a HAV doesn't have anywhere near the kinetic force that swarms or a FG (or my Blasters) have. It's just silly. Also JLAVing is a thing because of it. DS's**: DS's are relatively fine, other than collisions with projectiles of certain kinds (MD rounds) Can make for silly crashes. It's bad enough that unless you gun it out of there at that second under AV fire (or kill them before they kill you) you die, messing up your flight pattern doesn't help. BLUB click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
MRBH1997 Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 185	Posted - 2015.03.11 23:08:00 - [2] - Quote I use all 3 vehicles and handlin is fine, I agree though that collision damage I ridiculous a lot of the time to vehicles or the sheer force caused by AV on DS sometimes. CEO of Knights of Ender Corporation Recruitment Channel: Ender's Keep KOE Agents now doing community events!
Foo Fighting Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 204	Posted - 2015.03.11 23:50:00 - [3] - Quote Also if you land a ds and end up touching a wall or even an aerial on a rooftop with the side of your craft, half the time you cannot take off again without flipping.
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.12 01:27:00 - [4] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: Also if you land a ds and end up touching a wall or even an aerial on a rooftop with the side of your craft, half the time you cannot take off again without flipping. I've never had that issue (but then again, I can take off and land on hills), so I can see that issue. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.12 01:27:00 - [5] - Quote MRBH1997 wrote: I use all 3 vehicles and handlin is fine, I agree though that collision damage I ridiculous a lot of the time to vehicles or the sheer force caused by AV on DS sometimes. So you think that the LAV's current handling, and the ****** turning mechanics of the HAV's are fine, especially when compared to other games? lol click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17598	Posted - 2015.03.12 01:43:00 - [6] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: MRBH1997 wrote: I use all 3 vehicles and handlin is fine, I agree though that collision damage I ridiculous a lot of the time to vehicles or the sheer force caused by AV on DS sometimes. So you think that the LAV's current handling, and the ****** turning mechanics of the HAV's are fine, especially when compared to other games? lol Which games? Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 18373	Posted - 2015.03.12 04:41:00 - [7] - Quote I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis Intara Direct Action Caldari State 2645	Posted - 2015.03.12 05:21:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. I would increase turn speed, but decrease forward/back speed. Tanks should be stand and deliver, but now they can just zip around. Unless they are functioning how you want them too already. In that case, maybe look at giving tanks LAV controls, to make them easier to control? Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17600	Posted - 2015.03.12 05:45:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. I'd suggest if you are going to make turning/tracking on the spot more receptive you could hold off on the acceleration boosts. Personally I am not a huge fan of the instant acceleration 0-Max speed in 1 second....the vehicles lack weight/mass if this is the case, especially the armour vehicles. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5369	Posted - 2015.03.12 06:49:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. The primary issue with handling on a controller is that in order to turn, you have to rotate the control stick which in turn pulls back on the forward throttle, M&K doesn't suffer from this because acceleration and turning are separate control points. this is also why I use the control scheme for LAVs where throttle is on the shoulder buttons and rotation is entirely on the control sticks, it gives MUCH more control over the handling. Sadly that control scheme doesn't exist for HAVs. Sadly the means to fix this issue is likely outside the scope of what can actually happen. As for ramping up the handling...seems reasonable. One thing I would note is that I actually like that some HAVs handle better than other. For example it would make sense to me that a Minmatar HAV would turn faster with a tighter radius than an Amarrian tank. Basically saying, if you change them, don't make them all the same. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7618	Posted - 2015.03.12 06:56:00 - [11] - Quote DS3 controls for the vehicles are horribad and need work. fixing the way the inputs control the vehicles would go a long way to improving tank/LAV quality of life. AV
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17601	Posted - 2015.03.12 07:21:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. The primary issue with handling on a controller is that in order to turn, you have to rotate the control stick which in turn pulls back on the forward throttle, M&K doesn't suffer from this because acceleration and turning are separate control points. this is also why I use the control scheme for LAVs where throttle is on the shoulder buttons and rotation is entirely on the control sticks, it gives MUCH more control over the handling. Sadly that control scheme doesn't exist for HAVs. Sadly the means to fix this issue is likely outside the scope of what can actually happen. As for ramping up the handling...seems reasonable. One thing I would note is that I actually like that some HAVs handle better than other. For example it would make sense to me that a Minmatar HAV would turn faster with a tighter radius than an Amarrian tank. Basically saying, if you change them, don't make them all the same. That's not necessarily true the faster your tank is driving forwards the less control you have over precise turning due to inertia. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5371	Posted - 2015.03.12 07:29:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: That's not necessarily true the faster your tank is driving forwards the less control you have over precise turning due to inertia. Well in that particular case I was speaking more in terms of a dead stop. Even now Gallente HAVs turn considerably slower than Gunnlogis, though that may be a function of the turning radius as well. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.12 11:22:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: That's not necessarily true the faster your tank is driving forwards the less control you have over precise turning due to inertia. Well in that particular case I was speaking more in terms of a dead stop. Even now Gallente HAVs turn considerably slower than Gunnlogis, though that may be a function of the turning radius as well. And that should be opposite imo, seeing as Gal HAV's are more based in CQ click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Dust 66	Posted - 2015.03.12 15:18:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. Make a control scheme that acceleration is on either L1 or R1 (or L2/R2, or something that isn't a stick) and left stick is only for turning and right stick is camera control, if you ever played BF3 or BF4 many people will be familiar with this control scheme. And it works too. Also remove KB/M, it's a console game. For ease of further balancing issues (strafing, turning,moving and handling in general) get rid of KB/M and focus on the controller.
Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 604	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:07:00 - [16] - Quote There is the Nullarbour dropship that is totally -out of whack-, please add that one to your list, many users have made bug reports about it. I would also add that it seems strange to me, even after all the time I've spent flying dropships, that holding the thrust long enough always ends with the nose eventually pointing up. I would think on a VTOL aircraft, steady thrust should not change the orientation of the vehicle, simply allow it to rise while maintaining whatever angle it is at. This works well in the first few seconds of thrust, but then the nose starts to climb independently of the rest of the ship. All pilots have accepted this and work around it, but when you look at it properly, it's quite wrong. Know what cannot be known.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 401	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:12:00 - [17] - Quote Can we just fix dropship momentum? Tanks and lavs don't have any movement change from av but dropships fly off target It's such an annoying mechanic when you're fighting the enemy since the forge or swarm launcher can fire fast enough to constantly knock you off target and into buildings, coupled with the fact that these weapons can kill tanks with ease it just means an ads has an extra problem to deal with... It could be easily resolved if momentum numbers were changed so the effect was reduced or nullified "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3058	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:14:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. It's already faster to turn the hull if it's missile or rail. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 443	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:22:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. When HAV's Shields are active as a small gunner I can't see.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5374	Posted - 2015.03.12 16:24:00 - [20] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: That's not necessarily true the faster your tank is driving forwards the less control you have over precise turning due to inertia. Well in that particular case I was speaking more in terms of a dead stop. Even now Gallente HAVs turn considerably slower than Gunnlogis, though that may be a function of the turning radius as well. And that should be opposite imo, seeing as Gal HAV's are more based in CQ Sorta. You also have to consider that the Madrugar has a higher top speed and the fact that shield vehicles are supposed to be more hit and run, so they need to be a bit more agile in general, but thats up for debate. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Kaeru Nayiri Ready to Play 612	Posted - 2015.03.12 17:55:00 - [21] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Can we just fix dropship momentum? Tanks and lavs don't have any movement change from av but dropships fly off target It's such an annoying mechanic when you're fighting the enemy since the forge or swarm launcher can fire fast enough to constantly knock you off target and into buildings, coupled with the fact that these weapons can kill tanks with ease it just means an ads has an extra problem to deal with... It could be easily resolved if momentum numbers were changed so the effect was reduced or nullified It'd be silly if I got hit by a forge gun and didn't get jostled around. I know it's annoying but I wouldn't want it any other way. Know what cannot be known.
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1306	Posted - 2015.03.12 19:04:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. Months tuning??? Hell they didn't even come close to finishing the job. Anyways, the maddie def needs better turning. No reason it should turn like a brick. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 336	Posted - 2015.03.12 19:39:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. TBh ds3 is inferior with tanks there are deads spaces in the analog control also you can accelerate and turn with kbm but not with ds3 ...compare old lav controls analog ..vs New lav controls ..vs kbm lav controls which never changed .. Tanks control layout needs to have accel mapped to a button like lavs to remove the disadvantage kbm has when moving no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2964	Posted - 2015.03.12 20:36:00 - [24] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am interested in this as I feel HAV turn very slowly, and was wondering if I was doing it wrong somehow. I would prefer myself to pivot much faster, but could sacrifice turret rotation if it's too powerful. Second, I hate how slowly they accelerate, and turn slowly at full speed. It kind of feels right when nitroing, but then it's difficult to steer. I understand that it's better on MKB but controller needs work, in my opinion. But I also know this took months of tuning by my predecessors, so it's not something we can turn around on the spot. I am happy to entertain tweaks like increase this speed, decrease this speed etc. TBh ds3 is inferior with tanks there are deads spaces in the analog control also you can accelerate and turn with kbm but not with ds3 ...compare old lav controls analog ..vs New lav controls ..vs kbm lav controls which never changed .. Tanks control layout needs to have accel mapped to a button like lavs to remove the disadvantage kbm has when moving Problem is how would you steer, control the turret, AND use modules. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 900	Posted - 2015.03.12 22:33:00 - [25] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Problem is how would you steer, control the turret, AND use modules. Do L3 or R3 do anything in a tank? (I feel so stupid having tanked for ages and paying no attention to this, lol.) If not then: Click analogue stick to bring up the modules. or... Have modules set to L2, while R2 is accelerate, click R3 or L3 to change between back and forwards. maybe?
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 2969	Posted - 2015.03.12 23:04:00 - [26] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Problem is how would you steer, control the turret, AND use modules. Do L3 or R3 do anything in a tank? (I feel so stupid having tanked for ages and paying no attention to this, lol.) If not then: Click analogue stick to bring up the modules. or... Have modules set to L2, while R2 is accelerate, click R3 or L3 to change between back and forwards. maybe? Oh ****, I forgot L3 doesn't do anything. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 2969	Posted - 2015.03.12 23:05:00 - [27] - Quote blub click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 22669	Posted - 2015.03.12 23:15:00 - [28] - Quote The main thing that keeps putting me off Gal tanks is the awkward starting. Gallente Guide
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17616	Posted - 2015.03.12 23:49:00 - [29] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The main thing that keeps putting me off Gal tanks is the awkward starting. The slow start is something I would argue that all tanks should have. These things are heavy, and while they have amazing power systems they are still using conventional means of drive. Accelerating in a super dense armoured vehicle should take a bit of time for your to get going, capping at say 3/4-4/5 of your total speed and taking a few more seconds to reach those upper limits. It takes roughly 7 seconds for a modern tank to go from 0-20mph. Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you. Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 2969	Posted - 2015.03.13 00:50:00 - [30] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The main thing that keeps putting me off Gal tanks is the awkward starting. The slow start is something I would argue that all tanks should have. These things are heavy, and while they have amazing power systems they are still using conventional means of drive. Accelerating in a super dense armoured vehicle should take a bit of time for your to get going, capping at say 3/4-4/5 of your total speed and taking a few more seconds to reach those upper limits. It takes roughly 7 seconds for a modern tank to go from 0-20mph. Just to clarify: You are saying start moving at full throttle, it instead of hitting max speed hits around 75-80% speed, and then accelerates over time to full speed? Would it slow down similarly as well? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-



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"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014