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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance
1566
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:JIMvc2 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dust =/= Eve
The amount of crap we destroyed in our own isk rivals eve's entire economy just to give an idea. Can you provide more information on that ? <--- Im serious lol I like to go over data You deserve that much. The economy of eve and dust are two entirely seperate monsters. Eve is an eeconomy based on item generation and destruction. The holy trinity of this is creation, possession, and destruction. Remove or disportionate any of those and you destroy the eve economy. This further evolves the game play into the realm of being highly efficent with what little equipment you may have. Some players can indeed lose 10-20-30 ships in a sitting but they generally do it for greater gains to buy 60 ships so to say. Dust in spirit shares this but there is one massive major factor not accounted for. Location. Dust 514 magically teleports all of its items where capsuleeer have to manually ship them. Without the means of location in dust 514 right now our economic model is somewhat too superior if we where to be placed in to the new eden soup as such. This facilitates our ability to die as much as 30 times in a single 15 minute span where an eve player would struggle to keep up in a similar manner unless he's an idiot undocking from his home station in shuttles. I'm pretty sure he wanted numbers. That the entire eve economy is like 7 trillion in assets and dust 514 destroys that much ever 3 months? unadjusted that is. (imagine it being adjusted for the 10 to 1 ratio)
its in the eve economic fanfest 2013 video, was trying to get the URL but my internet crapped out on me
In favor of removing vehicles only so Spkr quits everything.
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
1176
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:08:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dont like it dont use it, APEX is the only thing CCP has ever done to give noobs a half chance of amassing any kind of isk without feeling like an *******.
Edit: Why is IWS still a CPM lol this dude hasnt ever had a clue.
Nemo me impune lacessit
CCP - Announcing games at the same time as killing the ones you love
CCP - No Credibility
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
11045
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
I don't know anything about how much ISK was lost in Dust since its official release back in 14 May 2013 compared to Eve Online in the same time frame, but I do agree with IWS about the differences between the Eve and Dust economies.
Eve Online's economy is a beast of its own. It's almost entirely driven by a secondary player-run free-market system where everything that is destroyed in the game is created by the players. The primary NPC market that it has is minuscule in comparison and only provide few things of any use at all such as BPOs that require minerals to use, and civilian modules that are so weak and pathetic that they quickly become useless even to a new player a week into the game. That and skill books. Not much else of note. The secondary economy is backed by a massive and thriving industry where players have mastered manufacturing down to not just a science but also an art in order to maintain maximum efficiency and profits.
Dust 514's economy is strictly NPC controlled. Even when Simple Trading arrives in April/May the secondary player-run market will be small compared to the primary NPC market. Plans for manufacturing are still in the backlog according to the Trello boards. So even if BPOs were removed from the game, it won't change the fact that the Eve and Dust economies are just not compatible with each other in any way even with Simple Trading implemented.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Protocake JR
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
1701
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Byozuma Kegawa wrote:So... BPOs should instead of being actual suits be limited run reskins? And that there shouldn't be a marketplace, just an auction house to sell goods gathered from PC for use in the manufacture of suits and weapons? Cause... just to let you know, that kind of hardcore player base... doesn't exist in Dust. Eve is populated by the hardcore, those who take the game so seriously as to have it down to a science. This is Dust, full of CoD casual meatheads that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag (no insults intended, honest). Yes, I have played Eve, that particular dynamic would fail miserably in Dust. Plain and simple. There are plenty of players that min/max Dust as seriously as Eve. We are waiting for the noobs to squad up and get with the program. Let them wallow in darkness as we pad our k/d. I'd love to, but sometimes I do stupid stuff like spawn at camped CRUs in a heavy multiple times to make campers earn it. If I could only make myself snipe in those matches
Same! I'd like to imagine the guy that dies feels like an idiot for being killed. |
Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
252
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Byozuma Kegawa wrote:So... BPOs should instead of being actual suits be limited run reskins? And that there shouldn't be a marketplace, just an auction house to sell goods gathered from PC for use in the manufacture of suits and weapons? Cause... just to let you know, that kind of hardcore player base... doesn't exist in Dust. Eve is populated by the hardcore, those who take the game so seriously as to have it down to a science. This is Dust, full of CoD casual meatheads that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag (no insults intended, honest). Yes, I have played Eve, that particular dynamic would fail miserably in Dust. Plain and simple. There are plenty of players that min/max Dust as seriously as Eve. We are waiting for the noobs to squad up and get with the program. Let them wallow in darkness as we pad our k/d. I'd love to, but sometimes I do stupid stuff like spawn at camped CRUs in a heavy multiple times to make campers earn it. If I could only make myself snipe in those matches Same! I'd like to imagine the guy that dies feels like an idiot for being killed.
I like to imagine the guy that dies feels like an idiot for playing this game. |
Thor Odinson42
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
6097
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:42:00 -
[66] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:CCP should make them stronger, but add the resources to produce them, and add a salvage gamemode where these items usually drop, but not in great numbers the better the bpo the more resources it requires.
The faction faction bpo's should be the best Kallakiota ect with the limited time bpo's like templar up there aswell.
This would be a way to separate the eve/dust currency wouldn't it? Would it not provide a way for the much lower scale ecomomy to work within Eve?
I'm selling Templar Codes. 2 of 5 remaining. 225 mil ISK. Message me in game.
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TritusX
PH4NT0M5
316
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Posted - 2015.02.23 00:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:APEX suits help:
-Players looking to grind ISK in pubs -CCP looking to increase revenue -This entire community through CCP having more development money
I really don't see a downside to them. I don't mind seeing "standardized" racial fits in pubs and FW, with players still having every option in the world to make far better customized fits.
They are good enough that a lot of players would want to use them, but not good enough that they are anywhere near OP.
You really want to bankrupt newberries in pubs that bad that you think they should be removed? You want to hurt someones wallet then play a competitive game mode like PC where you'll never ever see a BPO of any type. Now that you mention that, I don't recall ever using a BPO suit or module in a PC match. They just couldn't compete with full-proto players stomping each other. I've seen a Toxin SMG
Killer of Grand Master Kubo by a shotgun, Gav by a BAR, and countless others
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FLAYLOCK Steve
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
413
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Posted - 2015.02.23 02:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
I really don't see Bpo's as a problem. I own elite pack and veteran pack and the tiger scout apex suit. And pretty much most of the milita bpo's. Only reason I wanted to buy them was to support the game, and because they look cool. They don't really give you an advantage. It's just standard and below grade gear (other than the apex suit which is far from OP) |
KILL3R H3LLH0UND
Nos Nothi
247
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:I really don't see Bpo's as a problem. I own elite pack and veteran pack and the tiger scout apex suit. And pretty much most of the milita bpo's. Only reason I wanted to buy them was to support the game, and because they look cool. They don't really give you an advantage. It's just standard and below grade gear (other than the apex suit which is far from OP)
Look, they don't give you an advantage, I know this. It just breaks the whole immersive gameplay idea of New Eden.
Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again.
I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
756
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:21:00 -
[70] - Quote
I really wish we had to buy some resource that then used our blueprints to make these tiems. I agree that it feels wrong that we can just use any suit.
At least BPO's are mainly for standard items. Still though, it should be just like regular BPO's and BPC;s. We should be using these to make things. Maybe buy resources off the market that EVE miners mine eventually. |
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KILL3R H3LLH0UND
Nos Nothi
247
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:24:00 -
[71] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:I really wish we had to buy some resource that then used our blueprints to make these tiems. I agree that it feels wrong that we can just use any suit.
At least BPO's are mainly for standard items. Still though, it should be just like regular BPO's and BPC;s. We should be using these to make things. Maybe buy resources off the market that EVE miners mine eventually. Yeah, exactly what I've been asking for. I still think APEX shouldn't exist. They just ruin the immersion effect for me.
Ex-Master Scout Trainer, been falling in love with my Minja again.
I <3 my Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
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Michael Epic
Horizons' Edge VP Gaming Alliance
510
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
@OP
I think you're just pissed that people with BPO suits that lose nothing can own your ass and you lose lots of shiny stuff because you can't wreck in bpo suits with bpo gear. |
Mobius Wyvern
Sky-FIRE
5813
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:Let me play the worlds smallest violin for you and ask what isn't killing the game? Poorly fit proto suits with basic weapons and mods and 3,000 ISK cheaper loadouts will be added to the list. Obviously you didn't read my entire post. This is new ended you can do whatever you please so long as you pay the price. Nothing is free, replace BPOs with skins and remove apex suits, they totally break immersion. I enjoy being immersed in my gaming, to eel like its surreal. When people can hrs have INFINATE of string it ruins the immersion. Make it like eve where everything is manufactured by players and sold, and skins are also build able, with the right BpCs Immersion?
You seem to think you are playing a game that is part of the New Eden universe.
I support Keshava for Gallente Specialist HAV
R.I.P. Kesha
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1788
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:58:00 -
[74] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:New Eden, a place where Mega-corporations clash for power, a place where bloody and brutal never ending way always continues on. A place with no limits, a place, where one shot can change the course of history.
Aka CCP, remove all BPOs (or modify them) to it's like EVE. Aka you BUILD them, and my kaalakiota c-1 would just be a skin, not something truly unlimited. Nothing should ever be free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The only things that should be unlimited is our starter fits. Just like rookie ships in EVE.
APEX. I say just remove them. It was a aggressive monetization technique, but they need to be removed and refunded aurum, ISK and LP.
*Sigh* time to go hop back the car, gotta 8 hour drive ahead of me, ILL BE BACK.
Agreed that the CCPs very own design team did have some very good reasons on driving the removal of BPOs on the latter part of 2013. Until the second change of heart. Not that any given decision should be stuck on no matter what.
The answer
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
11050
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Posted - 2015.02.24 20:06:00 -
[75] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:New Eden, a place where Mega-corporations clash for power, a place where bloody and brutal never ending way always continues on. A place with no limits, a place, where one shot can change the course of history.
Aka CCP, remove all BPOs (or modify them) to it's like EVE. Aka you BUILD them, and my kaalakiota c-1 would just be a skin, not something truly unlimited. Nothing should ever be free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The only things that should be unlimited is our starter fits. Just like rookie ships in EVE.
APEX. I say just remove them. It was a aggressive monetization technique, but they need to be removed and refunded aurum, ISK and LP.
*Sigh* time to go hop back the car, gotta 8 hour drive ahead of me, ILL BE BACK. Agreed that the CCPs very own design team did have some very good reasons on driving the removal of BPOs on the latter part of 2013. Until the second change of heart. Not that any given decision should be stuck on no matter what.
The only reason they had about wanting to remove BPOs was because there originally were plans to merge Dust's economy with that of Eve's economy one day. But since that's now out the window, we might as well have BPOs. The only concern is how to transfer them to Legion if Project Legion ever gets to be a full game.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Dropship One
DROPSHIP ONE OPERATIONS
0
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Posted - 2015.02.24 21:11:00 -
[76] - Quote
If everyone in a battle uses only BPOs the entire battle, would the ISK rewards be only limited to the contractual payout? If yes, players are forcing less ISK payout thus BPOs are hurting the game. If no, the in-game economy is out of balance (total ISK cost should equal total ISK payout) thus BPOs are hurting the game. Damn. Same answer either way. It's madness! |
SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
347
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Posted - 2015.02.24 21:23:00 -
[77] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Without BPOs you'd have more fun watching paint dry.
The payouts are too low to support putting up an effort for below average players. The payouts are not supposed to support running ADV and PROTO 24/7. STD should make you a profit ADV should just break even Proto should be at a loss
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
892
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Posted - 2015.02.24 21:26:00 -
[78] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Dont like it dont use it, APEX is the only thing CCP has ever done to give noobs a half chance of amassing any kind of isk without feeling like an *******. Edit: Why is IWS still a CPM lol this dude hasnt ever had a clue.
apex suits are more of an isk remover than they are an isk maker.
if your able to save up the currency to buy that crap. then your able to save even more by not buying it.
if only we could pilot the mcc.
id end the matches real quick.
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Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
353
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Posted - 2015.02.25 02:36:00 -
[79] - Quote
I'll spend isk to make sp. I'll bpo to make isk. I'll proto if I feel like it.
As far as bpos ruining the game. Most bpos support the game.
I traded words earlier with IWS but he got sidetracked. I would rather have civil discourse.
I stated BPOS were back because the economies will never merge. What else should I believe? I was here when they cut them. Why? Their effect on the economy. I have not received information that they switched economists or got different math. Forgive my assumption. Until I hear otherwise I gotta call em as I see em.
Any links or info would be great. |
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
1312
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Posted - 2015.02.25 03:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
okay.....
Please support fair play!
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Proto Annihilator
16 Vandals
369
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Posted - 2015.02.25 03:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
So buy them while they're cheap? Thank you. |
The Infected One
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
1438
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Posted - 2015.02.25 05:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote: Your sig. o7
01001001011101000111001100100000011001100111010101101110
I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS?
--. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
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rasputin900000
Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION
29
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Posted - 2015.02.25 13:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Proto Annihilator wrote: BPOS are back precisely because the economies will never be merged. It's a way to keep the servers going while CCP fulfill their legal obligations.
says someone who has no idea what is really going on. Enlighten me Get Elected
Another example of why we don't really need cpm's thought you guys were supposed to be the go to people. I was always told the meta level was what the payouts are based on in which case the apex suits have more than basic or advanced. I'd have to agree that the word dude is looking for would be milita as well. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
3969
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Posted - 2015.02.25 13:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
Wrong
BPOs never hurt the economy because the economy doesnt exist in DUST
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
1312
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Posted - 2015.02.25 13:57:00 -
[85] - Quote
Proto Annihilator wrote:So buy them while they're cheap? Thank you.
...i never buy BPO 4 aurum, m8.
Please support fair play!
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Billi Gene
545
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Posted - 2015.02.25 13:58:00 -
[86] - Quote
while we're at it, can CCP please remove Trial Accounts from EvE, I'm sick of my mining ships getting blown up by suicide gankers. After all, this is New Eden... nothing is free right?
Pedant, Ape, Troll.
My Beard makes Alpha's sook :P
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Flyingconejo
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
1154
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Posted - 2015.02.25 14:03:00 -
[87] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Wrong
BPOs never hurt the economy because the economy doesnt exist in DUST
^^^^ What he said.
There is no economy in Dust. You would need trading between players, player crafting, and only basic level gear on the NPC market for a Dust economy to exist.
I love this kind of threads. They always go like:
"We need this game to be harsher! Harsher and more unforgiving! This is a brutal universe. There is too much hand holding! Everyone should have to deal with consequences and HTFU!"
Followed by variations of:
"I'm tired of fighting the same 20 guys all day." or "Why is everyone always camping behind the redline?"
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
2999
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Posted - 2015.02.25 14:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
KILL3R H3LLH0UND wrote:New Eden, a place where Mega-corporations clash for power, a place where bloody and brutal never ending way always continues on. A place with no limits, a place, where one shot can change the course of history.
Aka CCP, remove all BPOs (or modify them) to it's like EVE. Aka you BUILD them, and my kaalakiota c-1 would just be a skin, not something truly unlimited. Nothing should ever be free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The only things that should be unlimited is our starter fits. Just like rookie ships in EVE.
APEX. I say just remove them. It was a aggressive monetization technique, but they need to be removed and refunded aurum, ISK and LP.
*Sigh* time to go hop back the car, gotta 8 hour drive ahead of me, ILL BE BACK. Sandbox
Go cry elsewhere.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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