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Why Sentinels are unbalanced

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Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 557	Posted - 2015.02.21 12:46:00 - [1] - Quote This is talking about heavies vs heavies, so bear with it. Firstly, all Sents mainly use HMGs, one of only two heavy weapons. These are of course projectile weapons. All Sents get bonuses, but what makes them so unbalanced is that the Amarr and Gallente Sentinels get bonuses AGAINST Projectiles vs Armor, whereas Caldari and Minmatar do not get any bonuses against Projectiles whatsoever, just Hybrid/Laser. Now if there were Hybrid/Laser Heavy weapons (Gatling Laser anyone?), this would be a little more balanced. But as it stands now, in a straight up sent fight, Gal/Amarr Sents will wreck the other two in no time at all. Thoughts on possible balancing tweaks? Discuss Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 5440	Posted - 2015.02.21 12:49:00 - [2] - Quote Make more heavy weapons (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7351	Posted - 2015.02.21 12:53:00 - [3] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: This is talking about heavies vs heavies, so bear with it. Firstly, all Sents mainly use HMGs, one of only two heavy weapons. These are of course projectile weapons. All Sents get bonuses, but what makes them so unbalanced is that the Amarr and Gallente Sentinels get bonuses AGAINST Projectiles vs Armor, whereas Caldari and Minmatar do not get any bonuses against Projectiles whatsoever, just Hybrid/Laser. Now if there were Hybrid/Laser Heavy weapons (Gatling Laser anyone?), this would be a little more balanced. But as it stands now, in a straight up sent fight, Gal/Amarr Sents will wreck the other two in no time at all. Thoughts on possible balancing tweaks? Discuss I believe your assessment is incomplete and not entirely accurate. Some parts of it are OK but your assessment of plasma/laser making it easier for shield suits to even the odds vs. Armor is ccounterintuitive. In my experience, Hmg is 50/50 between a calsent and amsent In who kills wwho because the HMG does 15% less to shields. But it really boils dow to who fires first. AV
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 557	Posted - 2015.02.21 13:01:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: This is talking about heavies vs heavies, so bear with it. Firstly, all Sents mainly use HMGs, one of only two heavy weapons. These are of course projectile weapons. All Sents get bonuses, but what makes them so unbalanced is that the Amarr and Gallente Sentinels get bonuses AGAINST Projectiles vs Armor, whereas Caldari and Minmatar do not get any bonuses against Projectiles whatsoever, just Hybrid/Laser. Now if there were Hybrid/Laser Heavy weapons (Gatling Laser anyone?), this would be a little more balanced. But as it stands now, in a straight up sent fight, Gal/Amarr Sents will wreck the other two in no time at all. Thoughts on possible balancing tweaks? Discuss I believe your assessment is incomplete and not entirely accurate. Some parts of it are OK but your assessment of plasma/laser making it easier for shield suits to even the odds vs. Armor is ccounterintuitive. In my experience, Hmg is 50/50 between a calsent and amsent In who kills wwho because the HMG does 15% less to shields. But it really boils dow to who fires first. But also bear in mind, that an Amarr/Gal sent at Dropsuit Level 5 gets a 10% Projectile damage reduction vs Armor. Plus as they are both Armor tanking suits, it's pretty much cancelling out the Proj bonus vs armor. I'll explain again. I think adding Laser & Hybrid heavy weapons will definitely even the playing field. Not by races using their own weaponry, because that will never happen, players will use whatever they want to. But by allowing Minmatar and Caldari Sents to have a weapon that is as effective against Gal/Amarr as the HMG is now against Min/Cal. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3256	Posted - 2015.02.21 13:41:00 - [5] - Quote There's more to it beyond that. Gallente and Amarr Sentinels also happen to be able to pull over 1,000 Armor which allows Logistics to benefit them more than if they were Caldari or Minmatar. Amarr is 15% Armor Resistance against Projectiles and 10% Shield Resistance with Rail. Adding in a weapon that is +20/-20 would be far worse at killing them than even a weapon that is -15/0. If we assume that Forge Guns are the only Rail Weapon, then nothing really changes as anyone hit with a Forge Gun tends to go bye-bye. A +10/-10 Blaster weapon is likewise worse than than the HMG. For Gallente, it is the same. +15 Rail and +10 Projectile Armor Resistance. We run into the same problem: +10/-10 and +20/-20 is worse than -15/+5 against Gallente as they are so Armor focused. Arguing that "Gallente and Amarr Sentinels are unbalanced because the weapons that they are naturally strong against are not in the game" is very strange indeed. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6306	Posted - 2015.02.21 13:46:00 - [6] - Quote Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 557	Posted - 2015.02.21 13:47:00 - [7] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Arguing that "Gallente and Amarr Sentinels are unbalanced because the weapons that they are naturally strong against are not in the game" is very strange indeed. Thats not my point at all, my point is that Gal and Amarr Sents have armor resists against the only viable heavy weapon for other Sents. Put a Minmatar sent against am Amarr Sent, with the same health, the same damage, and the same level of suit skill, and the Amarr will win. That's what makes them unbalanced. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 557	Posted - 2015.02.21 13:50:00 - [8] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Potentially, but with the current ScR issues, Armor tanking has become more common. I mean, if the devs ever pay heed to the demands for Racial weapon parity, we'll no doubt have Heavy Laser and Rail weapons (Not Forge) soon anyway. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
iKILLu osborne T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 708	Posted - 2015.02.21 14:03:00 - [9] - Quote my m.sent is faster has a faster shield and stamina regen and i can rep full healh under 20 seconds. that and situational awareness makes my sent op. (n`-´)+Æ;;; shotgun blast yo ASs
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 250	Posted - 2015.02.21 14:23:00 - [10] - Quote I have 3 calsent builds (not PRO yet) 581 487 103.29 hp/s 2.46 0.62 Trash H v H, decent vs M L if I have cover. 874 487 Just meh. x3 hvy dmg mod and a cardiac shreds L and M still trash vs anything but a minsent... Just sayin "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever 07-28-12 ~Deal with it~

Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2015.02.21 14:34:00 - [11] - Quote Assuming that the HMG damage profile significantly benefits the shield tankers and is the balancing factor is ignorance. The gal/amarr sentinels also have 487 and 450 shields respectively that are benefited by the HMG damage profile, this equates to 560 and 517 eHP against HMG respectively. Whereas the cal and min's armour (487 and 575) equates to 341 and 403 eHP against the HMG. 3 extender cal sent fit = 1346 eHP vs HMG 4 ferro amarr sent fit = 1435 eHP vs HMG 3 ferro gal sent fit = 1283 eHP vs HMG 2 extender min sent fit = 1159 eHP vs HMG I haven't factored in damage mods either but the amarr has the most eHP and deals the second most damage (1 damage mod less than the gal). The amarr sentinel is the best sentinel overall. From my PC experience, the HMG heat nerf has made the amarr sent being the best gap a lot wider - it is now far more harder to down an amarr heavy that is on reps in my cal sent since I have to be cautious with the HMG heat, in the time that I wait for the HMG to cool down a bit the amarr sent has repped at least a third of his armour back however, the min sent with a burst HMG seems to be the best counter but is also extremely hard compared to being an amarr sent on reps. The only buffs I could see helping is giving the gal/cal better base regen to compensate.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3256	Posted - 2015.02.21 14:49:00 - [12] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Arguing that "Gallente and Amarr Sentinels are unbalanced because the weapons that they are naturally strong against are not in the game" is very strange indeed. Thats not my point at all, my point is that Gal and Amarr Sents have armor resists against the only viable heavy weapon for other Sents. Put a Minmatar sent against am Amarr Sent, with the same health, the same damage, and the same level of suit skill, and the Amarr will win. That's what makes them unbalanced. And how does adding a weapon that Gallente and Amarr are more resistant to going to fix this? Lasers are +20/-20. Projectiles against Amarr work out to be -15/+0. Which is a better weapon to use? Blasters are +10/-10. HMG's are -15/+0. Which is better to use when Amarr have much more Armor than Shields? Put another way: "Even with the 15% or 10% Armor resistance against Projectiles, it is still a better way to kill the Armor focused Gallente and Amarr Sentinels than Laser Weapons or Blaster Weapons." "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7353	Posted - 2015.02.21 14:53:00 - [13] - Quote There's more to it. The caldari sentinel is by far the LEAST dependent upon native or logi repair. Operating as an ambusher or pointman tends to work best. But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. Inroutinely use my quafe calsent to cut down proto amsents. The minsent doesn't work when put in the typical sentinel role. It is a **** poor defensive suit but a phenomenal skirmisher and can be used as a moderately slow assault. Combined wwith the burst HMG the minsent is ideal for running side by side with assaults. The galsent is the oddball. I've had remarkable luck damping it, putting scan range extender, a rep, two damage mods and playing ambusher for assault suits. But I'm weird. AV
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:07:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:13:00 - [15] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies.
Big miku Nation of Miku 410	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:18:00 - [16] - Quote I've been running min minsent, proto and std, and it just feels to slow and too tender.. You can stack kinkats to achieve 7.44 sprint speed at the behest of fitting anything else or you can use one and make a somewhat decent fit that is still out preformed in a stand up fight and only slightly faster than another heavy. I understand what they were trying to do, make a fast DPS hose, but as I said, it is too slow without having to gimp your fits. What did CCP want the minsent to be? Fast damage hose, shield tanker, omni tanker, something in-between? Whatever it is, it is out preformed by every other sent.
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1906	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:22:00 - [17] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: This is talking about heavies vs heavies, so bear with it. Firstly, all Sents mainly use HMGs, one of only two heavy weapons. These are of course projectile weapons. All Sents get bonuses, but what makes them so unbalanced is that the Amarr and Gallente Sentinels get bonuses AGAINST Projectiles vs Armor, whereas Caldari and Minmatar do not get any bonuses against Projectiles whatsoever, just Hybrid/Laser. Now if there were Hybrid/Laser Heavy weapons (Gatling Laser anyone?), this would be a little more balanced. But as it stands now, in a straight up sent fight, Gal/Amarr Sents will wreck the other two in no time at all. Thoughts on possible balancing tweaks? Discuss More heavy weapons, yo When we get those, we will have an easier time balancing them. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." http://royventus.tumblr.com
jade gamester Dead Man's Game RUST415 123	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:26:00 - [18] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. Exactly I use the min sentinel in pc where as mex uses the call sentinel I know this :p and I can happily say and I think many agree the amar gets too much shield 450?! That's insane, it's not viable to armour stack shield heavies the hitbox is so large our shields will melt then the armour is gone instantly. The bonus to the shield heavies isn't enough, that's how I see it. When you verse an amar heavy, the six kin which I use takes forever the first burst is mainly the shield then you go in to armour with the same resistance.. Whereas call and min? When the shield is gone bye bye and it is not viable to shield tank honestly, you win a fight? And regeneration is crap. You'll die on the second fight unless you play speed. So let's say a call heavy around 800 shield and that's without Dmg mods. Which the gal and amar use.. The min I don't use shield what's the point? I want shield heavies to have a resistance to flux grenades and a higher resistance to lazer and plasma. And there is no point hating this post I run all heavy suits and amar is most comfy suit iv ever seen and the min is my baby haha :p Swaglord of dust Role model - valwhore CEO thedick "oh no he took my lucky charms"
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:28:00 - [19] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Arguing that "Gallente and Amarr Sentinels are unbalanced because the weapons that they are naturally strong against are not in the game" is very strange indeed. Thats not my point at all, my point is that Gal and Amarr Sents have armor resists against the only viable heavy weapon for other Sents. Put a Minmatar sent against am Amarr Sent, with the same health, the same damage, and the same level of suit skill, and the Amarr will win. That's what makes them unbalanced. And how does adding a weapon that Gallente and Amarr are more resistant to going to fix this? Lasers are +20/-20. Projectiles against Amarr work out to be -15/+0. Which is a better weapon to use? Blasters are +10/-10. HMG's are -15/+0. Which is better to use when Amarr have much more Armor than Shields? Put another way: "Even with the 15% or 10% Armor resistance against Projectiles, it is still a better way to kill the Armor focused Gallente and Amarr Sentinels than Laser Weapons or Blaster Weapons." So, after you asked how adding new weapons will help, I said that's not my point at all. So you then again ask me how they will help. Same answer, that's not my point at all. Plenty of people are giving good detailed answers both sides of the issue, read those. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6308	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:31:00 - [20] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. That's not what ignorant means...? Armor heavies have around 400 shields, while the Caldari can reach up to what? Low 700s? That 300 makes a huge difference when going up against another HMG, so what is your point again?

Ardos 130297 Prima Gallicus 2	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:38:00 - [21] - Quote Personaly, I play the Minmatar sent with a cardiac regulator, kinetic and burst HMG, the sprint speed and the sprint time are very powerfull on this dropsuit. You straf, attack by the side or behind and destroy all other heavies ! If it's a caldari or an other you think you can lose the fight, the solution ? Flux grenade ! I have the Allotek version on my fit and i kill every heavies when they haven't shield. You do not win a war by making what is just... You win it by making what is necessary...
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:38:00 - [22] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. That's not what ignorant means...? Armor heavies have around 400 shields, while the Caldari can reach up to what? Low 700s? That 300 makes a huge difference when going up against another HMG, so what is your point again? His point is that the extra 300 shield that is resistant, is irrelevant next to the resistance you get for every point of armour Amarr/Gallente get. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:40:00 - [23] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. That's not what ignorant means...? Armor heavies have around 400 shields, while the Caldari can reach up to what? Low 700s? That 300 makes a huge difference when going up against another HMG, so what is your point again? Did you not just read what you quoted me on? That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). Paired with their resistance and subsequent more eHP they are better, more specifically the amarr sentinel. Sorry, I am not trying to insult you.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7353	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:42:00 - [24] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. EHP isn't the only consideration, nor it it the most critical. the cookie cutter for sentinels everyone insists on is idiotic. the fact that PC meta is centered on fattys moreso. AV
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 6308	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:46:00 - [25] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. That's not what ignorant means...? Armor heavies have around 400 shields, while the Caldari can reach up to what? Low 700s? That 300 makes a huge difference when going up against another HMG, so what is your point again? Did you not just read what you quoted me on? That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). Paired with their resistance and subsequent more eHP they are better, more specifically the amarr sentinel. Sorry, I am not trying to insult you. I didn't even mention the resistance rate in my second point, just raw shield eHP. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but 10% more won't really do THAT much better against 300 raw shield HP. As for the 6%, I'm not quite sure. I didn't take it as an insult. I just happen to see more shield heavies winning 1v1 against an armor heavy of both are same tier and fitted well. If you have numbers that I can go on, by all means post them. Numbers don't lie. I'm just too lazy to do it myself through mobile.
Izlare Lenix Pub Stars 1281	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:52:00 - [26] - Quote My min sent chews through gal/amarr sents very frequently in 1 v 1s. However since most amarr/gal sents are scubs and can't hmg without support they always seem to have logis attached to their ass so 1 v 1s can be rare against them. But there is an amazing thrill when I kill the scrub amarr/gal sent and his scrub logi. The only real truth in history is that it was bloody.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2015.02.21 15:53:00 - [27] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: EHP isn't the only consideration, nor it it the most critical. I am pointing out that it is the eHP paired with the damage dealt. If it is not this then what is? Breakin Stuff wrote: the cookie cutter for sentinels everyone insists on is idiotic. The cookie cutter everyone insists on is what I'm against. Breakin Stuff wrote: the fact that PC meta is centered on fattys moreso. Is this just a statement with no point? Because the supposed fatty PC meta would be ideal for comparing heavies.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 329	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:12:00 - [28] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I didn't even mention the resistance rate in my second point, just raw shield eHP. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but 10% more won't really do THAT much better against 300 raw shield HP. As for the 6%, I'm not quite sure. I didn't take it as an insult. I just happen to see more shield heavies winning 1v1 against an armor heavy of both are same tier and fitted well. If you have numbers that I can go on, by all means post them. Numbers don't lie. I'm just too lazy to do it myself through mobile. Okay consider this assuming max skills: Amarr sentinel vs Caldari sentinel. Amarr sent 4 ferro fit: 450 shields (+15%) = 518 eHP 1080 armour (-15%) = 918 eHP Total eHP vs cal sent HMG = 1436 Cal sent 3 extender fit: 874 shields (+10%) = 961 eHP 487 armour (-35%) = 317 eHP Total eHP = 1278 eHP vs amarr sent HMG
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:34:00 - [29] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: I didn't even mention the resistance rate in my second point, just raw shield eHP. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but 10% more won't really do THAT much better against 300 raw shield HP. As for the 6%, I'm not quite sure. I didn't take it as an insult. I just happen to see more shield heavies winning 1v1 against an armor heavy of both are same tier and fitted well. If you have numbers that I can go on, by all means post them. Numbers don't lie. I'm just too lazy to do it myself through mobile. Okay consider this assuming max skills: Amarr sentinel vs Caldari sentinel. Amarr sent 4 ferro fit: 450 shields (+15%) = 518 eHP 1080 armour (-15%) = 918 eHP Total eHP vs cal sent HMG = 1436 Cal sent 3 extender fit: 874 shields (+10%) = 961 eHP 487 armour (-35%) = 317 eHP Total eHP = 1278 eHP vs amarr sent HMG God, imagine the eHP of the Amarr Sent if it used 4 Armor Plates instead of Ferro. I guess there'd have to adjustments for less mobility made but.... *whistle Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 330	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:41:00 - [30] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Joel II X wrote: I didn't even mention the resistance rate in my second point, just raw shield eHP. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but 10% more won't really do THAT much better against 300 raw shield HP. As for the 6%, I'm not quite sure. I didn't take it as an insult. I just happen to see more shield heavies winning 1v1 against an armor heavy of both are same tier and fitted well. If you have numbers that I can go on, by all means post them. Numbers don't lie. I'm just too lazy to do it myself through mobile. Okay consider this assuming max skills: Amarr sentinel vs Caldari sentinel. Amarr sent 4 ferro fit: 450 shields (+15%) = 518 eHP 1080 armour (-15%) = 918 eHP Total eHP vs cal sent HMG = 1436 Cal sent 3 extender fit: 874 shields (+10%) = 961 eHP 487 armour (-35%) = 317 eHP Total eHP = 1278 eHP vs amarr sent HMG God, imagine the eHP of the Amarr Sent if it used 4 Armor Plates instead of Ferro. I guess there'd have to adjustments for less mobility made but.... *whistle I assume this is why Rattati proposed a plate nerf, and we're not even talking about a min logi repping that amarr sent yet.

LUGMOS Corrosive Synergy RISE of LEGION 2269	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:44:00 - [31] - Quote Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Official QuafeGäó Advocate Anti-FoTM Prof. V Forum Scavenger Prof. V
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:45:00 - [32] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Lol no-ones busting anything, I'm quite enjoying this two-sided debate. I'm surprised no-one brought it up before, or did everyone just not notice? Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 330	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:48:00 - [33] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Lol no-ones busting anything, I'm quite enjoying this two-sided debate. I'm surprised no-one brought it up before, or did everyone just not notice? I noticed this a while ago but never bothered making a thread.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:51:00 - [34] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Lol no-ones busting anything, I'm quite enjoying this two-sided debate. I'm surprised no-one brought it up before, or did everyone just not notice? I noticed this a while ago but never bothered making a thread. I'll probably get nova-shanked later for this, I've let their secret out the bag! Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 331	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:55:00 - [35] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: LUGMOS wrote: Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Lol no-ones busting anything, I'm quite enjoying this two-sided debate. I'm surprised no-one brought it up before, or did everyone just not notice? I noticed this a while ago but never bothered making a thread. I'll probably get nova-shanked later for this, I've let their secret out the bag! What you mean the fact that the amarr sentinel is the best? It always has been, it's the most used sentinel if not suit in PC.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 16:58:00 - [36] - Quote Yeah, I imagine the non-Amarr purists never noticed these stats. I only noticed because I was looking at every Race's suit bonuses. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
VAHZZ 515	Posted - 2015.02.21 18:28:00 - [37] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Make more heavy weapons This. ~ Seeker of the Quafe
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 560	Posted - 2015.02.21 18:29:00 - [38] - Quote VAHZZ wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Make more heavy weapons This. Why do you think that? Quite a few people in here disagree, but I'm with you on this Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Stormblade Green KnightKiller's inc. 8	Posted - 2015.02.21 18:45:00 - [39] - Quote The cladari sentinel has a lot of shielding...... So it kinda does have a resistance to HMGs...... Ever tried killing one with another heavy?? Not easy. The amarr sentinel is heavily logi friendly. The galentai well point taken. But yes heavy weapon parity will fix the HMG spam.... One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 4677	Posted - 2015.02.21 18:51:00 - [40] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Make more heavy weapons Maybe one that's fun and takes skill to use not spray and pray, maybe a laser hmg. Brb preparing my planet destroyer Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro

iKILLu osborne T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 711	Posted - 2015.02.21 19:58:00 - [41] - Quote Big miku wrote: I've been running min minsent, proto and std, and it just feels to slow and too tender.. You can stack kinkats to achieve 7.44 sprint speed at the behest of fitting anything else or you can use one and make a somewhat decent fit that is still out preformed in a stand up fight and only slightly faster than another heavy. I understand what they were trying to do, make a fast DPS hose, but as I said, it is too slow without having to gimp your fits. What did CCP want the minsent to be? Fast damage hose, shield tanker, omni tanker, something in-between? Whatever it is, it is out preformed by every other sent. bwahaha player skill needs to be factored in (n`-´)+Æ;;; shotgun blast yo ASs
Aramis Madrigal State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 369	Posted - 2015.02.21 20:26:00 - [42] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: Big miku wrote: I've been running min minsent, proto and std, and it just feels to slow and too tender.. You can stack kinkats to achieve 7.44 sprint speed at the behest of fitting anything else or you can use one and make a somewhat decent fit that is still out preformed in a stand up fight and only slightly faster than another heavy. I understand what they were trying to do, make a fast DPS hose, but as I said, it is too slow without having to gimp your fits. What did CCP want the minsent to be? Fast damage hose, shield tanker, omni tanker, something in-between? Whatever it is, it is out preformed by every other sent. bwahaha player skill needs to be factored in The min sentinel makes a decent forger and works as a more independent compliment to other heavies. It's also solid for supporting pushes. However, I do agree that it doesn't have a single role that it is best at. -Aramis
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2194	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:28:00 - [43] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed Who wants some?
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 335	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:32:00 - [44] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed Lol any fit works in pubs, I'm speaking about competitive fits.
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2194	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:35:00 - [45] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed Lol any fit works in pubs, I'm speaking about competitive fits. Lol. Competitive Who wants some?
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 820	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:46:00 - [46] - Quote I agree on making more heavy weapons, but all this HMG talk is nonsense anyway. As we all know forge gun trumps everything.
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 562	Posted - 2015.02.21 22:01:00 - [47] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed Lol any fit works in pubs, I'm speaking about competitive fits. Lol. Competitive As in FW and PC, where winning matters Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2195	Posted - 2015.02.21 22:06:00 - [48] - Quote To who? Who wants some?
Edau Skir2 Nefantar Raiders 562	Posted - 2015.02.21 22:35:00 - [49] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: To who? The people playing it? I don't know about you, but I definitely don't want to grind up to 100k lp by getting 295 a match. Nor would want to lose a district in PC. Come on, that crap is obvious. Logistics mk.0 / Logibro's Modified Logistics mk.0
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Negative-Feedback 337	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:32:00 - [50] - Quote Darken-Soul wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Darken-Soul wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed Lol any fit works in pubs, I'm speaking about competitive fits. Lol. Competitive As in FW and PC, where winning matters Yeah I mean competitive as in when going up against players that know what they're doing with optimal competitive fits.

Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2198	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:40:00 - [51] - Quote Sounds like ambush to me. I Who wants some?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7355	Posted - 2015.02.22 02:21:00 - [52] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: What you mean the fact that the amarr sentinel is the best? It always has been, it's the most used sentinel if not suit in PC. I do better with the Minsent and a burst HMG. But I'll be honest, I'm too fking aggressive for the Amsent to be the optimal solution for me. AV
Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES 2211	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:26:00 - [53] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: What you mean the fact that the amarr sentinel is the best? It always has been, it's the most used sentinel if not suit in PC. I do better with the Minsent and a burst HMG. But I'll be honest, I'm too fking aggressive for the Amsent to be the optimal solution for me. LAV Who wants some?


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