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Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 14:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Assuming that the HMG damage profile significantly benefits the shield tankers and is the balancing factor is ignorance.
The gal/amarr sentinels also have 487 and 450 shields respectively that are benefited by the HMG damage profile, this equates to 560 and 517 eHP against HMG respectively. Whereas the cal and min's armour (487 and 575) equates to 341 and 403 eHP against the HMG.
3 extender cal sent fit = 1346 eHP vs HMG
4 ferro amarr sent fit = 1435 eHP vs HMG
3 ferro gal sent fit = 1283 eHP vs HMG
2 extender min sent fit = 1159 eHP vs HMG
I haven't factored in damage mods either but the amarr has the most eHP and deals the second most damage (1 damage mod less than the gal). The amarr sentinel is the best sentinel overall. From my PC experience, the HMG heat nerf has made the amarr sent being the best gap a lot wider - it is now far more harder to down an amarr heavy that is on reps in my cal sent since I have to be cautious with the HMG heat, in the time that I wait for the HMG to cool down a bit the amarr sent has repped at least a third of his armour back however, the min sent with a burst HMG seems to be the best counter but is also extremely hard compared to being an amarr sent on reps.
The only buffs I could see helping is giving the gal/cal better base regen to compensate. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 15:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen.
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Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 15:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it.
Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 15:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Joel II X wrote:Caldari Sentinels and arguably the Minmatar as well, use shields as their main tank, so they have an innate 15% resistance against it. Believing that this is the balancing factor is ignorant. That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). The armour heavies also have shields that benefit from this resistance which is likely to not be contested by damage mods when going against shield heavies. That's not what ignorant means...? Armor heavies have around 400 shields, while the Caldari can reach up to what? Low 700s? That 300 makes a huge difference when going up against another HMG, so what is your point again?
Did you not just read what you quoted me on?
That innate resistance equates to about 10% or 6% resistance depending on which armour heavy you go up against (damage mods). Paired with their resistance and subsequent more eHP they are better, more specifically the amarr sentinel.
Sorry, I am not trying to insult you. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 15:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
EHP isn't the only consideration, nor it it the most critical.
I am pointing out that it is the eHP paired with the damage dealt. If it is not this then what is?
Breakin Stuff wrote:
the cookie cutter for sentinels everyone insists on is idiotic.
The cookie cutter everyone insists on is what I'm against.
Breakin Stuff wrote:
the fact that PC meta is centered on fattys moreso.
Is this just a statement with no point? Because the supposed fatty PC meta would be ideal for comparing heavies. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 16:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:
I didn't even mention the resistance rate in my second point, just raw shield eHP. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but 10% more won't really do THAT much better against 300 raw shield HP. As for the 6%, I'm not quite sure.
I didn't take it as an insult. I just happen to see more shield heavies winning 1v1 against an armor heavy of both are same tier and fitted well.
If you have numbers that I can go on, by all means post them. Numbers don't lie. I'm just too lazy to do it myself through mobile.
Okay consider this assuming max skills:
Amarr sentinel vs Caldari sentinel.
Amarr sent 4 ferro fit:
450 shields (+15%) = 518 eHP
1080 armour (-15%) = 918 eHP
Total eHP vs cal sent HMG = 1436
Cal sent 3 extender fit:
874 shields (+10%) = 961 eHP
487 armour (-35%) = 317 eHP
Total eHP = 1278 eHP vs amarr sent HMG |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 16:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Edau Skir2 wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Joel II X wrote:
I didn't even mention the resistance rate in my second point, just raw shield eHP. I don't know what you're trying to prove, but 10% more won't really do THAT much better against 300 raw shield HP. As for the 6%, I'm not quite sure.
I didn't take it as an insult. I just happen to see more shield heavies winning 1v1 against an armor heavy of both are same tier and fitted well.
If you have numbers that I can go on, by all means post them. Numbers don't lie. I'm just too lazy to do it myself through mobile.
Okay consider this assuming max skills: Amarr sentinel vs Caldari sentinel. Amarr sent 4 ferro fit: 450 shields (+15%) = 518 eHP 1080 armour (-15%) = 918 eHP Total eHP vs cal sent HMG = 1436 Cal sent 3 extender fit: 874 shields (+10%) = 961 eHP 487 armour (-35%) = 317 eHP Total eHP = 1278 eHP vs amarr sent HMG God, imagine the eHP of the Amarr Sent if it used 4 Armor Plates instead of Ferro. I guess there'd have to adjustments for less mobility made but.... *whistle
I assume this is why Rattati proposed a plate nerf, and we're not even talking about a min logi repping that amarr sent yet. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 16:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Edau Skir2 wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Lol no-ones busting anything, I'm quite enjoying this two-sided debate. I'm surprised no-one brought it up before, or did everyone just not notice?  I noticed this a while ago but never bothered making a thread. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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Posted - 2015.02.21 16:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Edau Skir2 wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Edau Skir2 wrote:LUGMOS wrote:Quit busting your heads, simple solution is limit the resistances to light weapons. Lol no-ones busting anything, I'm quite enjoying this two-sided debate. I'm surprised no-one brought it up before, or did everyone just not notice? I noticed this a while ago but never bothered making a thread. I'll probably get nova-shanked later for this, I've let their secret out the bag!
What you mean the fact that the amarr sentinel is the best? It always has been, it's the most used sentinel if not suit in PC. |
Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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335
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Posted - 2015.02.21 21:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:But max caldari (with necessary cores plus armor skills all at 5) is comparable in utility to the amsent, easily able to trade HMG fire for HMG fire without any feeling of futility. You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen. Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed
Lol any fit works in pubs, I'm speaking about competitive fits. |
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Mexxx Dust-Slayer
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337
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Posted - 2015.02.22 00:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:You probably feel this way because 90% of pub heavies are bad. The amarr sentinel has more eHP than the cal sent and ideally deals more damage. The amarr sent is superior in 1v1, the cal sent is useful for brawling with already low on HP amarr sentinels then running away to regen.
Slap 3 damage mods on cal sentinel and a kincat. Use six kin. It kills everything. Over heat isn't an issue unless you fight 4 or more targets. Flux are nice but not needed Lol any fit works in pubs, I'm speaking about competitive fits. Lol. Competitive As in FW and PC, where winning matters
Yeah I mean competitive as in when going up against players that know what they're doing with optimal competitive fits. |
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