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The-Errorist
1049
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Posted - 2015.02.16 01:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
Trello card to vote on.
The Gallente assault bonus should be 5% dispersion and 6% recoil reduction per level. The current 25% total recoil reduction isn't enough, so bump it up to 30%.
This would make the tactical plasma rifle for the Gallente assault almost as good as a scrambler rifle for the Amarr assault.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Commander Noctus
Gallente Loyalist
214
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Posted - 2015.02.16 02:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
I don't see why not. If people don't want to give plasma weaponry a bonus that counters their weakness (like lasers and projectiles get...) then we might as well buff the hell out of the bonus we actually do have.
Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
7478
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Posted - 2015.02.16 02:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm all for improving the current bonus.
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
72
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Posted - 2015.02.16 04:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
I get the bonus should be weapon related, but it would be interesting to see how it works a bonus that affected the survival rate. For example, for gallente, a 2% armor repair efficiency extra per level; caldari; x% shield recharge per level; amar, x% armor plates per level: minmatar... I dont know this one.
I know, I know, its just an idea, but it would be cool something like this besides the weapon bonus, I think it would really make the Assaults even with other roles and make them the choice to push the enemy, the real frontlines.
(The "x%" is because I dont really use those races, so I dont know what would be a good amount) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4969
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Posted - 2015.02.16 07:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
 I feel like the Plasma Rifle hardly has any recoil at all as is...
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
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The-Errorist
1051
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Posted - 2015.02.16 07:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote: I feel like the Plasma Rifle hardly has any recoil at all as is...
The tactical plasma rifle has a ton of it though even with gal assault, it still gets in the way.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
291
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Posted - 2015.02.16 12:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote: I feel like the Plasma Rifle hardly has any recoil at all as is... The tactical plasma rifle has a ton of it though even with gal assault, it still gets in the way.
Recoil in Dust, and mostly on AR, isn't a big problem at all^^ Play other FPS and you'll see what having recoil means. The only weapon with recoil in dust is the RR..
I think the bonus is pretty useless and should be changed to something else.
Rise? That's what they used to call me. Sequal Rise. That was my name.
Now I come Back to you, at the turn of the tide.
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Green Living
Gallente Gay Swag Club
1342
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
I honestly hip-fire more with the TAC-AR than I ADS in my GalAss. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6732
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Assault Suits are already the best Suits.
Dare we buff them further?
http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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The-Errorist
1051
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Those graphs are not all that relevant to the issue of the gal assault bonus being a bit underpowered compared to the other racial bonuses (except caldari); you have to actually play it for yourself to judge. Have you even tried a gal assault and felt the kick reduction was enough when using a tactical plasma rifle?
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
2392
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Commander Noctus wrote:I don't see why not. If people don't want to give plasma weaponry a bonus that counters their weakness (like lasers and projectiles get...) then we might as well buff the hell out of the bonus we actually do have.
The problem here it that ARs don't have a serious weakness like ScRs or CRs do.
They're just way too jack of all trades and bland. They ought to be shaken up with a real weakness/strength combo...
How can you mitigate a weakness that isn't there?
Home at Last <3
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2497
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Those graphs are not all that relevant to the issue of the gal assault bonus being a bit underpowered compared to the other racial bonuses (except caldari); you have to actually play it for yourself to judge. Have you even tried a gal assault and felt the kick reduction was enough when using a tactical plasma rifle?
Not trying to be a git here but even on a scout suit the kick doesn't seem like much of an issue, although i suppose it depends on the rate at which R1 is triggered.
The thing i'd want most on the TAR is reduced falloff/increased range.
PSN: RationalSpark
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The-Errorist
1052
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Those graphs are not all that relevant to the issue of the gal assault bonus being a bit underpowered compared to the other racial bonuses (except caldari); you have to actually play it for yourself to judge. Have you even tried a gal assault and felt the kick reduction was enough when using a tactical plasma rifle? Not trying to be a git here but even on a scout suit the kick doesn't seem like much of an issue, although i suppose it depends on the rate at which R1 is triggered. The thing i'd want most on the TAR is reduced falloff/increased range.
Firing at the same rate as a SCR with a TAR isn't effective as it should be on a Gal assault.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
2392
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Posted - 2015.02.16 18:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Those graphs are not all that relevant to the issue of the gal assault bonus being a bit underpowered compared to the other racial bonuses (except caldari); you have to actually play it for yourself to judge. Have you even tried a gal assault and felt the kick reduction was enough when using a tactical plasma rifle? Not trying to be a git here but even on a scout suit the kick doesn't seem like much of an issue, although i suppose it depends on the rate at which R1 is triggered. The thing i'd want most on the TAR is reduced falloff/increased range.
Increase the range by any noticeable amount and it would outrange the ScR. No.
Home at Last <3
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6738
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Posted - 2015.02.16 20:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Those graphs are not all that relevant to the issue of the gal assault bonus being a bit underpowered compared to the other racial bonuses (except caldari); you have to actually play it for yourself to judge. Have you even tried a gal assault and felt the kick reduction was enough when using a tactical plasma rifle?
Usage rates are hugely relevant when weighing a buff. If your beef is with TAR kick, then fix the TAR kick. "Buff the GA Assault because the TAR kicks" doesn't make much sense. Nor does "Buff the TAR because the ScR", as Rattati has indicated the latter is OP.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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The-Errorist
1053
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Posted - 2015.02.16 21:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Those graphs are not all that relevant to the issue of the gal assault bonus being a bit underpowered compared to the other racial bonuses (except caldari); you have to actually play it for yourself to judge. Have you even tried a gal assault and felt the kick reduction was enough when using a tactical plasma rifle? Usage rates are hugely relevant when weighing a buff. If your beef is with TAR kick, then fix the TAR kick. "Buff the GA Assault because the TAR kicks" doesn't make much sense. Nor does "Buff the TAR because the ScR"; Rattati has indicated the latter is OP.
Basically 5% isn't all that much of a kick reduction increase and the kick of the Tar on a gal assault is not where it should be to utilize it's max RoF. Usage statistics can't make a direct correlation to that, but only an indirect correlation.
The TAR can fire almost the same amount of shots of a scrambler rifle before it overheats with a someone with an Amarr assault. The Gal assault bonus should make the TAR easier to use in similar to how the amarr assault lets you able to shoot for longer periods of time. An increased recoil for the gal assault would do just that.
Decreasing the base recoil stat of the TAR would make the TAR too good compared to those without a Gal assault or an Amarr assault with a SCR. If you've tried the TAR outside of a gal assault, you would notice it's similarly effective to using a non-Amarr assault with a SCR.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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The-Errorist
1053
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Posted - 2015.02.16 22:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I'm all for improving the current bonus.
Oh, by the by, IT'S CALLED THE ASSAULT RIFLE!
YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL and it's an assault plasma rifle. Just saying assault rifles could mean one of many things:
assault combat rifle;
assault scrambler rifle;
assault rail rifle;
assault plasma rifle;
those are all assault rifles.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Fizzer XCIV
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
2395
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Posted - 2015.02.17 04:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I'm all for improving the current bonus.
Oh, by the by, IT'S CALLED THE ASSAULT RIFLE! YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL and it's an assault plasma rifle. Just saying assault rifles could mean one of many things: assault combat rifle; assault scrambler rifle; assault rail rifle; assault plasma rifle; those are all assault rifles.
Actually none of the rifles in this game are tecnically assault rifles but the Scrambler Rifle.
All the "Assault Variant" rifles are actually auto-rifles, along with their Breach AR and Rail Rifle.
The TacAR is a battle rifle.
The CR and Burst AR are... I don't really know. There isn't real world classification of rifles that are ONLY burst fire.
"Assault Rifles" are selective fire rifles using intermediate sized rounds with detachable magazines. Only the ScR meets these requirements.
Home at Last <3
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
15661
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Posted - 2015.02.17 05:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yes we do, usage statistics does not change nor refute the fact that the bonus does not have any meaningful effect, (which means that it's not working as intended), therefore arguments involving its usage are irrelevant.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6748
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Posted - 2015.02.17 05:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Yes we do, usage statistics does not change nor refute the fact that the bonus does not have any meaningful effect, (which means that it's not working as intended), therefore arguments involving its usage are irrelevant.
Usage is always relevant. See Uprising 1.0 - 1.8.
It isn't like you to dismiss statistical indicators, Atiim. If it were tanks outselling all else by nearly 2:1, you'd be crying rivers and demanding nerfs.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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noob cavman
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2136
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
So your comparing when tanks were op and when we scouts were op to a bonus that makes very little difference to the actual weapons it relates to...
Ok moving on.
I would enjoy a different bonus on my assault but if we increased either damage or rof it would become ridiculous.
Ammo increase would be not much better
A bonus to running reppers? The cpu and pg cost or the effectiveness of the reps. Maybe even both 
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
7240
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Posted - 2015.02.17 09:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Making a suit bonus for a single weapon variant is kinda dumb. Better solution would be to slightly reduce recoil on the TAR directly.
Since in its own right it should be equivalent to the vanilla scram
AV
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benandjerrys
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
126
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Posted - 2015.02.17 14:04:00 -
[23] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:I'm all for improving the current bonus.
Oh, by the by, IT'S CALLED THE ASSAULT RIFLE! YOU DON'T HAVE TO YELL and it's an assault plasma rifle. Just saying assault rifles could mean one of many things: assault combat rifle; assault scrambler rifle; assault rail rifle; assault plasma rifle; those are all assault rifles.
The amount of coding it takes for the weapon to have the right name would be a nightmare. We all know what it is. Give CCP a break they aren't worried about this low hanging fruit.
Tread Locking Proficiency V
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6749
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Posted - 2015.02.17 16:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Making a suit bonus for a single weapon variant is kinda dumb. Better solution would be to slightly reduce recoil on the TAR directly. Since in its own right it should be equivalent to the soon-to-be-rebalanced vanilla scram
FTFY. Also agreed.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6749
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Posted - 2015.02.17 16:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
noob cavman wrote:So your comparing when tanks were op and when we scouts were op to a bonus that makes very little difference to the actual weapons it relates to... Ok moving on. I would enjoy a different bonus on my assault but if we increased either damage or rof it would become ridiculous. Ammo increase would be not much better A bonus to running reppers? The cpu and pg cost or the effectiveness of the reps. Maybe even both
Not at all. Atiim claims that we should ignore usage rates; I'm disagreeing. When scouts were OP, their usage rates looked alot like current Assault rates. Assaults may or may not be OP, but they certainly aren't UP; any net gain they "vote themselves" will likely lead to imbalance.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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The-Errorist
1056
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Posted - 2015.02.17 17:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Atiim wrote:Yes we do, usage statistics does not change nor refute the fact that the bonus does not have any meaningful effect, (which means that it's not working as intended), therefore arguments involving its usage are irrelevant. Usage is always relevant. And it isn't like you to dismiss quality data, Atiim.
And it isn't like you to ignore someones counter argument.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
6749
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Posted - 2015.02.17 18:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
[snip] If your beef is with TAR kick, then fix the TAR kick. "Buff the GA Assault because the TAR kicks" doesn't make much sense. Nor does "Buff the TAR because the ScR"; Rattati has indicated the latter is OP.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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The-Errorist
1057
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Posted - 2015.02.17 19:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:
[snip] If your beef is with TAR kick, then fix the TAR kick. "Buff the GA Assault because the TAR kicks" doesn't make much sense (to me, at least). Nor does "Buff the TAR because the ScR"; Rattati has indicated the latter is OP.
Quote:Decreasing the base recoil stat of the TAR would make the TAR too good compared to those with a Gal assault or an Amarr assault with a SCR. If you've tried the TAR outside of a gal assault, you would notice it's similarly effective to using a non-Amarr assault with a SCR.
Quote:The TAR can fire almost the same amount of shots of a scrambler rifle before it overheats with a someone with an Amarr assault. The Gal assault bonus should make the TAR easier to use in similar to how the amarr assault lets you able to shoot for longer periods of time. An increased recoil reduction for the gal assault would do just that.
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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The-Errorist
1057
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Posted - 2015.02.17 19:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
ignore this post for now
Suits, Tanks, a mode
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
Negative-Feedback
15663
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Posted - 2015.02.17 23:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Atiim wrote:Yes we do, usage statistics does not change nor refute the fact that the bonus does not have any meaningful effect, (which means that it's not working as intended), therefore arguments involving its usage are irrelevant. Usage is always relevant. And it isn't like you to dismiss quality data, Atiim. When 5 HAVs per side rolled around each-and-every match following 1.7, usage rates mattered very much to you. When Scouts accounted for over 50% of units in combat each-and-every match following 1.8, usage rates mattered very much to you. How is that suddenly "arguments involving usage are irrelevant"? If it were Tanks instead of Assaults outselling all else by nearly 2:1, you'd be allover these graphs and relentless in your demands for nerfs.
The HAV/ADS usage rates weren't at all what concerned me, what concerned me was the fact that they were overpowered. If HAV usage was to skyrocket at this very moment, I'd be assessing their power to determine why they're skyrocketing and then determine whether or not action needs to be taken.
None of my arguments as to why the HAV (or any item) needed to be nerfed involved the fact that they were overused, and everything to do with the fact that they were incapable of being destroyed when operated competently (read: invulnerable) without injecting an impractical/imbalanced amount of AVers to destroy them.
Usage by itself isn't "quality data", as it doesn't display nor determine factors which actually show the power of an item. In this case it's completely irrelevant because the argument of "they are the most widely used Dropsuits" does not offer a refutation, nor rebuttal to the subject at hand.
That aside, there are currently four proven and irrefutable facts:
1. The bonuses are neither significant nor practical
2. The bonuses fail to provide a significant advantage over other roles/classes.
3. Dropsuit bonuses are intended to be both significant and practical.
4. Dropsuit bonuses are intended to provide a significant advantage over other roles/classes.
Given how my (and hopefully everyone's) goal is for all items to work as they were intended (balanced), the only rational and objective course of action would be to pursue a change to their bonus so that it meets the criteria of facts 3 and 4.
Though I must ask, if we were back before Hotfix Delta and the Caldari Scout's bonus was -5% Sniper Rifle Dispersion per Level, would you pursue a change to its bonus?
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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