DUST Search - Gal logi bonus needs nerf or Scout profiles need buff

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

So, you want to increase the fitting requirements on something that uses the second most amount of PG in the game? 18 PG to fit 1 focused scanner, 14.5 PG on a logi. for perma-scans, i woulld have gimp my fit so much that its beyond useless. I'm sick of scouts and players moaning about scanners, a scout can see you almost all of the time and you dont get any warning informing you of it, but because one medium frame can scan almost everyone for 7.5 seconds and lets you know if you've been scanned its completely broken.

Gimped beyond useless?

Build for me a competitive MinScout with straight damps in his lows and a proto cloak. What is the TTK of your MinScout under fire by Boundless HMG or Viziam ScR? On the topic of gimped, note how your MinScout lacks codebreakers or kincats; you're subject to insta-gib without the benefit of speed or utility.

Now let's compare the above risk/reward profile to that of your "gimped beyond useless" GA Logi, who is tucked safe-and-sound within a blob of 3-5 heavies all the while spin scanning.

What Rewards accompany this MinScout's Risks? And what Risks (if any) accompany this GalLogi's Rewards?

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Jebus McKing Nos Nothi 1483	Posted - 2015.02.16 15:37:00 - [61] - Quote With the current system a nice and quick fix to make active scanning more bearable would be to give damps a second stat which reduces the being scanned duration. This way damps would be useful to more suits even if the dampening bonus isn't good enough to beat the scanner. And at the same time scanners aren't rendered useless just because someone uses damps. pé¿pâûpé¦pü»pé¦pé¡pâúpâ¦péÆs½îpüúpüªpüäpéïpÇé wwwwwwwwwww
Echo 1991 State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 726	Posted - 2015.02.16 16:13:00 - [62] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: So, you want to increase the fitting requirements on something that uses the second most amount of PG in the game? 18 PG to fit 1 focused scanner, 14.5 PG on a logi. for perma-scans, i woulld have gimp my fit so much that its beyond useless. I'm sick of scouts and players moaning about scanners, a scout can see you almost all of the time and you dont get any warning informing you of it, but because one medium frame can scan almost everyone for 7.5 seconds and lets you know if you've been scanned its completely broken. Gimped beyond useless? Build for me a competitive MinScout with straight damps in his lows and a proto cloak. What is the TTK of your MinScout under fire by Boundless HMG or Viziam ScR? On the topic of gimped, note how your MinScout lacks codebreakers or kincats; you're subject to insta-gib without the benefit of speed or utility. Now let's compare the above risk/reward profile to that of your "gimped beyond useless" GA Logi, who is tucked safe-and-sound within a blob of 3-5 heavies all the while spin scanning. What Rewards accompany this MinScout's Risks? And what Risks (if any) accompany this GalLogi's Rewards? http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/112/11746 if you have the skills at 5 you hack with an inherent codebreaker all the time and you still move faster at base than every other suit in the game. You can't say scans are OP just because one suit with a very good scanner an detect you. every scanner can pick up heavies and i dont see them complaining.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Nos Nothi 2549	Posted - 2015.02.16 16:44:00 - [63] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: A. No B. Scouts are such disgusting easymode that I respecced out of them. I used to have Caldari Scout and Cloaks maxed out, but there was no challenge at all. In other words: stop being bad You need your ass replaced bro jeez. Recon is an Art Scout since 1.4 (poorly) IMHO GK.0 & MK.0 Roden & Kaalakiota AC-1 LTT/B
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2910	Posted - 2015.02.16 16:48:00 - [64] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: This thread revolves around PC more than anything. My minmatar scout with (desperately) 3 complex dampeners should not be getting scanned every 10 seconds, making it literally impossible to flank and get a speed hack or get uplinks down for my team to get into a better position to take control of a point. NO scout should get scanned with 2 complex dampeners on by ANYTHING. Only Gal scout can get under those scans and thats fundamentally broken in so many ways. This is what scout suits are made for... being unseen. gal logi bonus needs to be toned down are scout needs significant profile buff. Theres really no way around it. Also scouts should not be forced to cloak to be unseen, as said, scouts are built for this. Gal, Amarr and Cal scouts get a bonus to profile. Min is there just to knife and hack. Gal logi bonus is fine. I have that and 2 PRO scouts. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3223	Posted - 2015.02.16 16:50:00 - [65] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: If you don't want to be thin skinned and scannable, don't run a Min Scout. Speed and hacking bonus come at a price. If you run a proto cloak with those two dampeners and the Min Scout becomes un-scannable, by the way. All that said, spin scanning needs to be fixed, and the 200m scanner is 90 degrees, not 30. A MinScout running two complex damps and proto cloak (on) has a profile of 17dB. He will be scanned by GA Logi + Focused scanner (15dB). Which is, as I understand it, the point of this thread. Thank you for the correction. The point still stands -- if you don't want to be scanned, perhaps you should skill into a scout that can't be scanned rather than one that has the most speed and it's other advantages.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6735	Posted - 2015.02.16 17:01:00 - [66] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: The point still stands -- if you don't want to be scanned, perhaps you should skill into a scout that can't be scanned rather than one that has the most speed and it's other advantages. I'm of the opinion that all roles should be competitive and PC worthy. End-game play would be rather bland if the only Scouts on the field were Gallente and MN Assaults :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6735	Posted - 2015.02.16 17:02:00 - [67] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: This thread revolves around PC more than anything. My minmatar scout with (desperately) 3 complex dampeners should not be getting scanned every 10 seconds, making it literally impossible to flank and get a speed hack or get uplinks down for my team to get into a better position to take control of a point. NO scout should get scanned with 2 complex dampeners on by ANYTHING. Only Gal scout can get under those scans and thats fundamentally broken in so many ways. This is what scout suits are made for... being unseen. gal logi bonus needs to be toned down are scout needs significant profile buff. Theres really no way around it. Also scouts should not be forced to cloak to be unseen, as said, scouts are built for this. 1. Gal, Amarr and Cal scouts get a bonus to profile. Min is there just to knife and hack. 2. Gal logi bonus is fine. I have that and 2 PRO scouts. 1. AM Scouts do not get a bonus to Profile. 2. Your calling something "fine" is good indication that it isn't. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2392	Posted - 2015.02.16 17:11:00 - [68] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Assert Dominance wrote: NO scout regardless of race, should get scanned with atleast 2 dampeners on. Lol. Get gud. FYI: A Top-10 list of the "Gud Scouts" would include Assert Dominance. Obviously not if he thinks he needs to be absolutely unscannable with just 2 modules. He wants a crutch, and I'm calling him out on it. Home at Last <3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6736	Posted - 2015.02.16 17:13:00 - [69] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: You can't say scans are OP just because one suit with a very good scanner an detect you. Did we not declare that CA Scout and later AM Scout scans were OP "wallhacks"? Did we not come to the conclusion that they exerted too much pressure on units which were trying to dampen? How are scans from these units any different from those of a spin-scan spamming GA Logi? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6736	Posted - 2015.02.16 17:36:00 - [70] - Quote Problem: The GA Logi's super scans are imbalanced in their effectiveness against units trying to dampen. Further, there exists negligible risk/effort and high reward in their spamming super scans from behind a wall of heavies. Idea: Replace GA Logi bonus to Active Scanners with a bonus to Remote Explosives and Nanite Injectors. Risk/Reward are now in equilibrium. Active Scans remain effective at pressuring units into damps but are no longer imbalanced against those which actually do. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 929	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:11:00 - [71] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Obviously not if he thinks he needs to be absolutely unscannable with just 2 modules. It's more of a crutch to see 90% of the enemy with only an equipment slot used. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2392	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:26:00 - [72] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Obviously not if he thinks he needs to be absolutely unscannable with just 2 modules. It's more of a crutch to see 90% of the enemy with only an equipment slot used. An equipment slot is worth more than a module slot, just like how a light weapon slot is worth more than sidearm slot. Home at Last <3
Echo 1991 State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 727	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:30:00 - [73] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: You can't say scans are OP just because one suit with a very good scanner an detect you. Did we not declare that CA Scout and later AM Scout scans were OP "wallhacks"? Did we not come to the conclusion that they exerted too much pressure on units which were trying to dampen? How are scans from these units any different from those of a spin-scan spamming GA Logi? Active scanner isn't permanent, gives the enemy a warning and short of a stupid DPI mouse only works in one direction. Don't compare an active scanner to a 360 degree perma-scan scout.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 929	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:31:00 - [74] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: An equipment slot is worth more than a module slot, just like how a light weapon slot is worth more than sidearm slot. Any 2 module slots is worth more than 1 equipment slot. 200hp will always be worth more than any equipment in the game. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 929	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:36:00 - [75] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Active scanner isn't permanent, gives the enemy a warning and short of a stupid DPI mouse only works in one direction. Don't compare an active scanner to a 360 degree perma-scan scout. A 200 meter temporary active scan that comes back every 10 seconds that scans 90% of the suits in the area at a constant , fixed range, show directionals that does not require the sacrifice of any modules will always be better than a 30m max range of scans that will only see certain suits at certain ranges at the sacrifice of 270 potential hp. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3224	Posted - 2015.02.16 18:58:00 - [76] - Quote I wish my 200m scan came back every 10 seconds.....and I hope you realize that scouts scan lower than the Flux scanner.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6738	Posted - 2015.02.16 19:16:00 - [77] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: I wish my 200m scan came back every 10 seconds.....and I hope you realize that scouts scan lower than the Flux scanner. < 30 meters vs 200 meters Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2015.02.16 19:29:00 - [78] - Quote I know scouts used to be the most complained about thing but I really wish they could go back back to what scanning used to be two or three updates ago. They should at least remove scans from the team and limit to squads only The constant "you've been scanned" is very annoying Boosting : Allowing the server to protect people from other countries from taking damage
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6738	Posted - 2015.02.16 19:31:00 - [79] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: You can't say scans are OP just because one suit with a very good scanner an detect you. Did we not declare that CA Scout and later AM Scout scans were OP "wallhacks"? Did we not come to the conclusion that they exerted too much pressure on units which were trying to dampen? How are scans from these units any different from those of a spin-scan spamming GA Logi? Active scanner isn't permanent, gives the enemy a warning and short of a stupid DPI mouse only works in one direction. Don't compare an active scanner to a 360 degree perma-scan scout. They've more in common than differences. One was nerfed because it exerted too much pressure on dampened units. The other is doing exactly the same, with greater reward and far less risk. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 128	Posted - 2015.02.16 19:33:00 - [80] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: With the current system a nice and quick fix to make active scanning more bearable would be to give damps a second stat which reduces the being scanned duration. This way damps would be useful to more suits even if the dampening bonus isn't good enough to beat the scanner. And at the same time scanners aren't rendered useless just because someone uses damps. --- I think this is a great idea there could even be an added category to dampening that you can skill into Boosting : Allowing the server to protect people from other countries from taking damage

Echo 1991 State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 728	Posted - 2015.02.16 20:17:00 - [81] - Quote DDx77 wrote: I know scouts used to be the most complained about thing but I really wish they could go back back to what scanning used to be two or three updates ago. They should at least remove scans from the team and limit to squads only The constant "you've been scanned" is very annoying Team scans do exacerbate the problem, I wouldn't mind them being removed. I just think that anyone complaining that one suit can scan them for 7.5 seconds every 40 seconds is having a laugh. Flux has too wide an angle and the quantum has a way to long up time, but if up time is lowered cool down should be too.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1438	Posted - 2015.02.16 21:24:00 - [82] - Quote I always felt the gal logis bonus should be increase to precision and +5degrees scan angle so you get a wider more precise scan and have active scanner operation skill be 5% reduction to scanner recharge Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
james jared State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 105	Posted - 2015.02.16 23:48:00 - [83] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: DDx77 wrote: I know scouts used to be the most complained about thing but I really wish they could go back back to what scanning used to be two or three updates ago. They should at least remove scans from the team and limit to squads only The constant "you've been scanned" is very annoying Team scans do exacerbate the problem, I wouldn't mind them being removed. I just think that anyone complaining that one suit can scan them for 7.5 seconds every 40 seconds is having a laugh. Flux has too wide an angle and the quantum has a way to long up time, but if up time is lowered cool down should be too. I agree. I have always been a logi. Played PC forever and still do. I run my gal logi in PC and still have this so called useless min scout in the hands of someone that knows how to use it get around my scans and speed hack the point I am waching before I can run the 10 meters to the point to kill them. I read this hole tread and find it just silly. Each scout is usefull for supthing. If u want not to be scaned be a gal scout. If u wanna play it smart and get speed hacks run ur min scout.
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 634	Posted - 2015.02.17 01:32:00 - [84] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: A. No B. Scouts are such disgusting easymode that I respecced out of them. I used to have Caldari Scout and Cloaks maxed out, but there was no challenge at all. In other words: stop being bad This is no longer true. With the ewar changes, nerf to the cloak delay and increase in assaults and gal logi/active scanners scouting is much more difficult now. HMG still holds title of easy mode, as it has for a long time. 70% of any team is scouts, quit lying to yourself
Feldt-Grace Anaheim Electronics Manufacture Company 78	Posted - 2015.02.17 01:45:00 - [85] - Quote Kick Scanners~ and for 1500wp a Scan"strike"~ TRANS-AM! Gundam, DUST and more Gameplays
james jared State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 105	Posted - 2015.02.17 03:53:00 - [86] - Quote Feldt-Grace wrote: Kick Scanners~ and for 1500wp a Scan"strike"~ Scan OB's now ur talking cool ****


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