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Posted - 2015.02.16 01:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:OP, I believe Min Scouts cannot be scanned with 3 complex profile dampeners. they can, i do all the time.
15 dB - GA Logi + Duvolle Focused
16 dB - MinScout + 3 Complex Damps
Focused Scanner wins unless Min Scout is proto cloaked.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Posted - 2015.02.16 01:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:So every scout can avoid scans with one damp? No thanks. Scouts need a counter, and I shouldn't have to use a scout to see a scout. I'm sorry but a triple damped scout cannot be picked up by any scanner except a duvolle focused, And if cloaked it will not detect you (hardest to do on min scout though) you also will Not be detected for 10 seconds by that scanner. Max is 7.5 seconds.
You don't have to scan an enemy to kill it. This is especially true with low-HP Scouts.
Darken-Soul wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:
Then what would be the point in running Scout?
Scouting perhaps.
I've never once been awarded recon assist WP for my sharing passives with my squad, and I distinctly recall "360 wallhack passive scans" being deemed OP and bad for Dust. The ultimate recon unit in the game is the GA Logi. Please define what you mean by "scouting".
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6728
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Posted - 2015.02.16 03:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:
Don't you all join up in a barber shop and cry about everything? Ask them.
I'm baffled by the ill-informed's perception of the Barbershop. More well-thought nerf ideas for Scouts came from that one thread than the entirety of GD. Balance has been our goal since the beginning. Believe whatever you wish, but this if fact.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6730
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Posted - 2015.02.16 13:23:00 -
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Fizzer XCIV wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:NO scout regardless of race, should get scanned with atleast 2 dampeners on. Lol. Get gud.
FYI:
A Top-10 list of the "Gud Scouts" would include Assert Dominance.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6732
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Posted - 2015.02.16 14:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:
Don't you all join up in a barber shop and cry about everything? Ask them.
I'm baffled by the ill-informed's perception of the Barbershop. More well-thought nerf ideas for Scouts have came from that one thread than the entirety of GD combined. Believe whatever you wish, but this is fact. Balance has been our goal since the beginning, and we played more an active role than anyone else in seeing ourselves nerfed for the sake of balance. But back to the point, a design decision was made, and passive recon was replaced by active recon. The "Scouting" Scout was replaced by the Active Scanner; the "Scouting" Scout is no more. In its stead, the GA Logi stands arguably overpowered; its "360 wallhack scans" perform no differently from those of the AM and CA Scout's which were nerfed before it. Assert has proposed that 2 complex damps on a Scout suffice to beat Active Scans. In which specific instance would this be unreasonable? 1. In the instance where that would make a Gal Logi scanner useless? 2. 2 damps is all you needed in the past with the Gal Scout and you guys said it was OP. Proposing it to be on all scouts is just hilarious. 3. As far as 360 scans, that's a result of CCP's inability to properly fix something when they set out to fix it. You need a high DPI mouse to achieve these scans, otherwise you get a very narrow scan with a huge cooldown. 4. Assert's suggestion is a bandaid that would hurt just as much as it would help. How about this, you charge your scan and then release it over the area you want to scan? 1 pulse, can't do 360 scans. That was what I expected CCP to do, but instead they just reduced the scan duration by a ton lol
1. Not being able to scan a small percentage of units does not make a scanner useless.
2. The 2-damp GA Scout out-assaulted Assaults prior to the introduction of Uber Assault and a sweeping series of Scout nerfs (including falloff, cloak blind, decloak delay, strafe penalty, etc.).
3. CPM Zatara Rought writes: "it's 1/8 the map around you.....45 of 360 degrees". Did he not know that spin-scanning was still a problem, Cat Merc? Why didn't tell him then, Cat Merc, that spin-scanning was still a problem?
4. I've a better idea. Replace AM Scout Precision perk with current GA Logi Active Scan perk. Give the GA Logi something else which it cannot break, mouse-controlled or otherwise. The AM Scout could then serve the role of a "Scouting" Scout, with fully half the spam potential of 4 EQ slots.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6732
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
So, you want to increase the fitting requirements on something that uses the second most amount of PG in the game? 18 PG to fit 1 focused scanner, 14.5 PG on a logi. for perma-scans, i woulld have gimp my fit so much that its beyond useless. I'm sick of scouts and players moaning about scanners, a scout can see you almost all of the time and you dont get any warning informing you of it, but because one medium frame can scan almost everyone for 7.5 seconds and lets you know if you've been scanned its completely broken.
Gimped beyond useless?
Build for me a competitive MinScout with straight damps in his lows and a proto cloak. What is the TTK of that MinScout under fire by Boundless HMG or Viziam ScR? Can't speed hack with codebreakers. Can't speed away without KinCats. And to kill anything with shotgun or knife, that MinScout still has to give away his location to both his target and the entirety of his target's squad.
Now let's compare the above risk/reward profile to that of a "gimped beyond useless" GA Logi tucked safe-and-sound within a blob of 3-5 heavies whilst spin scanning.
What Rewards accompany this MinScout's Risks?
And what Risks accompany this GalLogi's Rewards?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6733
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Posted - 2015.02.16 15:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:If you don't want to be thin skinned and scannable, don't run a Min Scout. Speed and hacking bonus come at a price.
If you run a proto cloak with those two dampeners and the Min Scout becomes un-scannable, by the way.
All that said, spin scanning needs to be fixed, and the 200m scanner is 90 degrees, not 30.
A MinScout running two complex damps and proto cloak (on) has a profile of 17dB. He will be scanned by GA Logi + Focused scanner (15dB). Which is, as I understand it, the point of this thread.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6735
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:
The point still stands -- if you don't want to be scanned, perhaps you should skill into a scout that can't be scanned rather than one that has the most speed and it's other advantages.
I'm of the opinion that all roles should be competitive and PC worthy. End-game play would be rather bland if the only Scouts on the field were Gallente and MN Assaults :-)
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6735
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:This thread revolves around PC more than anything. My minmatar scout with (desperately) 3 complex dampeners should not be getting scanned every 10 seconds, making it literally impossible to flank and get a speed hack or get uplinks down for my team to get into a better position to take control of a point. NO scout should get scanned with 2 complex dampeners on by ANYTHING. Only Gal scout can get under those scans and thats fundamentally broken in so many ways. This is what scout suits are made for... being unseen. gal logi bonus needs to be toned down are scout needs significant profile buff. Theres really no way around it. Also scouts should not be forced to cloak to be unseen, as said, scouts are built for this. 1. Gal, Amarr and Cal scouts get a bonus to profile. Min is there just to knife and hack. 2. Gal logi bonus is fine. I have that and 2 PRO scouts.
1. AM Scouts do not get a bonus to Profile.
2. Your calling something "fine" is good indication that it isn't.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6736
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:You can't say scans are OP just because one suit with a very good scanner an detect you.
Did we not declare that CA Scout and later AM Scout scans were OP "wallhacks"? Did we not come to the conclusion that they exerted too much pressure on units which were trying to dampen? How are scans from these units any different from those of a spin-scan spamming GA Logi?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Posted - 2015.02.16 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Problem: The GA Logi's super scans are imbalanced in their effectiveness against units trying to dampen. Further, there exists negligible risk/effort and high reward in their spamming super scans from behind a wall of heavies.
Idea: Replace GA Logi bonus to Active Scanners with a bonus to Remote Explosives and Nanite Injectors. Risk/Reward are now in equilibrium. Active Scans remain effective at pressuring units into damps but are no longer imbalanced against those which actually do.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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6738
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Posted - 2015.02.16 19:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:I wish my 200m scan came back every 10 seconds.....and I hope you realize that scouts scan lower than the Flux scanner.
< 30 meters vs 200 meters
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Posted - 2015.02.16 19:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:You can't say scans are OP just because one suit with a very good scanner an detect you. Did we not declare that CA Scout and later AM Scout scans were OP "wallhacks"? Did we not come to the conclusion that they exerted too much pressure on units which were trying to dampen? How are scans from these units any different from those of a spin-scan spamming GA Logi? Active scanner isn't permanent, gives the enemy a warning and short of a stupid DPI mouse only works in one direction. Don't compare an active scanner to a 360 degree perma-scan scout.
They've more in common than differences. One was nerfed because it exerted too much pressure on dampened units. The other is doing exactly the same, with greater reward and far less risk.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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