The only reason an ADS attacks a tank is because the first thing a tank does when it sees a dropship of any type is to try to shoot it down. The only time I ever attack a tank in an ADS is because it tried to kill me(at which point the driver gets out with a forge gun or swarm launcher - there may be a lesson in there somewhere).

I honestly don't see this as a problem though. I can count on one hand how many times I've been destroyed in a tank by solely an ADS and I can fill the rest of the same hand with how many tanks I've solo killed with an ADS.

What matters is that you're asking for a vehicle that can do everything well with only one operator with no real drawbacks. You have yet to make a realistic suggestion of how to do this without breaking game balance.



Players might be amenable to something along these lines:

Give tanks 2 modes: Tank mode and AA mode.

Tank mode is what we currently have.

AA mode would:
Fix you in place(no movement possible)
Not allow turret movement in the normal angles(can only aim up, not forward/backward)
Disable small turrets

There would be a 5 second delay where the tank is immobilized, the turrets inactive, and modules unable to be toggled while the mode is changing.

1. That's not what I wrote, read it again.

2. With super versatile large turrets ADS' will not be able to move around the map or even engage, let alone disengage and reengage considering they will be destroyed by any tank in the vicinity.

3. Think for yourself and come up with a reasonable idea(such as doubling ADS damage against tanks while giving tanks added turret elevation).

Godin, there is no need for your ADS in this game as it is, this is why it is a gunship and why CCP kept it in the game

Ambush - not needed
Domination - not needed (except getting to the point in the first place)
Skirmish - larger city based maps could benefit when going to outside points but why not use a cheaper LAV or get everyone to spawn on the point.

Wait, you say that, but then believe that a Gunship is? Why is that?

Ambush-Gunship isn't needed

Domination- Gunship isn't needed

Skirmish- Gunship isn't needed.

You could say the same thing about tanks.

Maybe my choice of words was poor, since technically the only thing needed in objective based matches is a suit that can hack.

What I mean is, they offer no benefit.

And you still could say the same thing about Gunships.

But they're super effective against tanks!

Stop replying to the thread as the discussion is going nowhere.

As is a Railgun or Rocket launcher on a HAV, or AV from infantry.

1: "vehicle that can do everything well with only one operator with no real drawbacks. " That implies that HAV's are in fact perfect with these changes, or at least better than everything else with these changes, and as I pointed out, that is false. Oh, on top of that, most ADS's can easily kill infantry as well, and that referrs to the pilot, something the HAV can't really do.

2: Being able to shoot back isn't super versitile. It's being able to defend yourself against a target. If you don't understand that, that's your problem. Also, a ADS will be able to easily move around the map. I easily move around the map now with little to no resistance, even when HAV's are out. Simply shooting isn't a thing now, nor would this change change that. Also, as I've stated, I'd like to see ADS's health get buffed, so it could reasonably survive and get out of dodge when something powerful (AV or a HAV) is shooting at it.

3: I have. It's the OP of the thread. That idea is even worse. I'll ask the question again: Why are you instead of being a actual DS and trying to transport and assist infantry, trying to go around and blow up HAV's?

To all the redline rails:

JLAV FOR YOU...

JLAV FOR YOU...

JLAV FOR YOU...

and for you dear child... JLAV FOR YOU!

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with ADS ability to easily kill infantry unless you want to nerf tanks ability to damage vehicles or infantry. It's far easier and safer to get infantry kills in a tank than in an ADS unless you're one of the few great ADS pilots(but they're outliers and you don't balance based on outliers).


2. How are ADS supposed to defend against tanks if they can't maneuver around them when they are surprised by one - you want to take the only safe exit, up, away.

My recent experience with flying an ADS means multiple AV players(mainly proto minmandos) chase you around the map, set up ambushes, and use cheap tactics like placing uplinks so they aren't destroyable at high points while five enemy tanks take pot shots at you whenever they see you.

You mentioned a slight HP buff at the expense of a fairly large nerf. A large HP buff would be required(a slight one is needed now).


3. I asked for a reasonable idea - the first asks for something but gives nothing up in exchange, the second wants to remove the A from the ADS(we already have those).

I try to use regular DS occasionally for regular dropship duty like you describe for but nobody will get into a DS who isn't a douchebag(they want to sit on a turret and shoot at things that they have no chance of hitting and will never get out). The mobile CRU still doesn't work properly(if it did I would be much happier).

I generally use an ADS to clear rooftops of equipment, occasionally attack infantry, and rarely attack vehicles(because it's usually futile anyway). I do want the option to do so if they're being a nuisance or worse.

I jihad with extreme prejudice for redrails. Especially if the enemy team has control over the field.

Only if they are preventing me from doing my job though.

I personally, as a tanker from open beta, have no issues with ADS's. They still kill me from time o time when they are good, but since the ROF nerf they have been well balanced I feel. I do agree they are a little week in terms of hp(1 swarm or forge makes me run without double hardener). ADS's are butter to AV so if anything they are weak AV vs ADS right now.

I, however, like your idea of call outs like pick up and such. I wish Dust had a more universal call out wheel like many other team games like MAG and battlefield have. They not only improve team experience when no one has a mic, but also help more supportive roles do their job better. This could easily be added like the comman wheel for squad leaders, only they would have to switch the wheel twice. Have it changed between vehicle or infantry based depending on what a player has their reticle over and if they are in a vehicle or not.

They're both broken, and although I don't like balancing broken **** with broken ****, I'll let JLAV's slide for these circumstances

Still want them removed or fixed to where they aren't cheap one shot machines though.

I don't, and I have no clue what you're talking about. On top of that, large turrets are generally getting nerf (or at least being tried to get nerfed) against infantry.

1: No, because There's more to this game than combat, and they can't defend themselves in every single way. A HAV can't simply run away from a ADS, as a ADS can easily find a HAV, and can easily keep on it, simply due to being faster than it, and flying above it. You're asking for ADS's to be able to engage everything with no real drawbacks (I however reject that), so it's the same thing.

Put it like this: By your logic, Infantry in general is OP, as it can easily engage vehicles with AV, and therefore, AV needs to be taken away. I would reject that logic, because EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH EVERYTHING DEAL WITH EVERYTHING. It's simple logic, really.

2: If they were to maneuver around them, but still stay in the same area firing back, then HAV's simply aren't able to deal with the ADS, making it void, and therefore can't defend itself. If you don't understand that, that's your problem.

AV has nothing to do with this discussion.

This isn't a fairly large nerf. If a HAV being able to actually be able to defend itself in a reasonable manner is a large nerf, then you have issues. Regardless, you want ADS's to get a large HP buff if this happens. Depends on what you mean by large. If you are saying what the earlier comment about them getting HAV eHP levels, simply no. That would be broken. If you mean enough to take say 7-12 seconds of fire (give or take), well, that's what I've been pushing, as currently, it's like 3, and that's stupid.

As a side note, I'd like a flux hardener, similar to that of the Saga II's hardener, where it hardens a high amount of HP for a limited amount of time, and then goes into cooldown. It'll help with the go in, support for a short period of time or until needed elsewhere or until AV another vehicles start shooting back style of gameplay.

3: You idea of it becoming a flying HAV while still being able to easily outmanuver said HAV's AND be able to transport infantry is flaweed to the core. **** no.

It not giving is a problem with rewards, which is a problem, and needs to get solved, which I pointed out in the OP, which you either ignored or very quickly glossed over.

The second one doesn't even make sense. It is still assaulting, it's simply not primaried with farming everything in sight. You think it is, but then again, you've shown several times now that you're simply not reasonable with your ideas, so I wouldn't trust that.

Yes it will. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to do (but you usually don't, so meh).

1. Our lines of thought along this point are too contradictory and I don't believe we will come to any consensus arguing our sides further. Shall we drop this point?

2. I'm certainly not a great ADS pilot nor a great tank pilot(average or slightly above at best). In an ADS I tend to hit most shots on an HAV but the few I miss coupled with reloads means any damage I've done to the tank is mostly healed by the time I start at it again if I continue the assault(the tank is usually retreating by then which was my objective). I'm fairly certain you are the better pilot as you have been using them much longer and have more SP invested into them.

If an ADS is hounding a tank they are both out of the match which I believe is balanced. If a vehicle pilot was forced to remain in the driver's seat once entered then I would agree with you that something needed to be done but that is not the case. The tank pilot currently has the option of wearing an AV suit to drive away ADS' that are pestering them(which does not require a separate player or team work in any way).

3. I honestly don't think changing the large turret angle is the best balanced option with the current turret mechanics(this may change depending on how large turrets are changed).

To make the skies less friendly we could have the MCCs fire more, smaller missiles above a certain altitude in addition to their large inter MCC missiles or allow EVE pilots to fire on vehicles above a certain altitude. Dropships would need an altimeter for either of these though and the first option would add lag which isn't good. I don't think either idea is great as a solution though.

With the current mechanics I believe that introducing an AA based small turret(flak maybe?) only able to fit into the top turret slot may be the best option(hitting triangle does not require team work). Have it deal enough damage to be a deterrent to DS(deals a fair amount of damage only to DS, but requires at least one reload to destroy one) with minimal AI and AT capacity(worst small turret in these respects).

Until other dropship types are introduced the ADS will fill the role of gunship and fast deployment dropship(at least in PC).

You have some good ideas in the OP of your other thread(the cloak idea needs work though - would be too powerful IMO). I will read through it later.

Atim is right